Advise Me on the Armour / Hp ratio and its mathematics of calculation

Discussion in 'General Archive' started by draco994, Apr 8, 2015.

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  1. draco994

    draco994 Active Author

    I would like the know the mathematics of finding the ratio between armour and hp ratio and it s combinations as well we do it on weapons by calculating the dps to find which is best for us, i heard it is once posted in old posts and answered by Baragain, but i dont now see it , can anyone help me with it. :rolleyes:
     
  2. MegaNuker

    MegaNuker Forum Ambassador

    The % in the charter menu is based on a mob of your level. If you want to know how much 1 armor affects the % then my suggestion is to play around with it yourself since the RATIO will change each level. I am sure some one knows how much armor is needed at each level to reach the 80% cap but that info sir I do not have. To obtain it try dividing 80% buy your % and the result of that multiplied by your Armor Value. I will give and example.

    Armor Value 1625 an enemy at your level will hit you for 52,12% less damage on physical attacks.

    80,00 / 52,12 is 1.534919416
    1.534919416 X 1625 is 2494.20
    So at 2495 you will be capped Armor Value for your level when both at same level.
     
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  3. cdeepal

    cdeepal Forum Baron

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  4. Mindship

    Mindship Forum Inhabitant

    Calculations? Geez, I think too simply for this game. When I think armor/HP ratio, I'm thinking more like, "H'm, should my HP stat be twice my armor stat? 1.5x? 3x? (right now it's about 1.6x, but I have a feeling HP should be at least 2x the armor stat).
     
  5. Novadude

    Novadude Commander of the Forum

    2 to 1 is a good ratio, but keep in mind that armor isn't linear, but HP is. There are diminishing returns for increasing your armor value. No diminishing returns for increasing HP.

    At level 45, your physical resistance against another level 45 is approximately:

    armor / (armor + 1919).

    And you can see the percentage by hovering over your armor number on the character page. In any event the cap for physical resistance is 80%.

    My DK right now has about 7.5K HP and 3.5K armor in pvp, my dwarf is more like 1.75 to 1. Flag running DKs might have 3 to 1 or 4 to 1.
     
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  6. Mindship

    Mindship Forum Inhabitant

    ^ Thanks. Good to know.
     
  7. MegaNuker

    MegaNuker Forum Ambassador

    Would armor cap out at 7676 for a 45?
     
  8. Novadude

    Novadude Commander of the Forum

    Something like that. I think Baragain had a post where he maxed it out (at the expense of everything else)

    I believe you can keep adding armor, it just won't do any good.

    Most 7000+ armor builds involve at least 2 pieces of the dragan set (15% armor bonus for 2 items), possibly the defender ring and belt (with armor gems) (2 item defender set bonus gets 15% armor boost) and a glyphed up high armor chestpiece stuffed with armor percentage gems.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2015
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  9. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Close, but I never actually pushed my armor to 80% for the sake of doing it, but I did do it with crit. You can see that the crit is 7929 which is greater than the 7676 that would yield 80%, but nothing additional got added.

    But, since you brought it up, I figured I'd see how high my armor does go at the moment. Sooooooo close to maxing 80% armor. Without switching any gems, you can see that my stats are nothing special if I do all armor. (100 damage worth of Weapon gems are still in 2H sword [and my 1H has 72.3% damage, so I could have 72 more damage if I switched], 5 HP Gems (+375) are still in other torso, 5 special gems in other helm, and 10 resist gems (+800) are still in other LHS items)
    [​IMG]

    EDIT:
    And this is with no %armor gems from the jesters.
     
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  10. draco994

    draco994 Active Author

    Oh my God, what is that armour hahahah, and how you feel with that stat on tanking

    --MERGED--

    well, i got a dk, and i just wanted to know how much armour and hp should be the right proportion on while selecting the items we get... like some times we need more hp and armour when going with high levels for farming and in pvp, while doing the flag run, what amount is proportionate that decreases the damage level to maximum low .. that is possible etc
     
    Last edited by moderator: Apr 9, 2015
  11. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    That armor is the Dark helm, Black Warlord shoulders and cape, a torso with approximately 850 armor, defender's belt (with 240 armor wort of gems in it) and ring, Dragonache amulet, the Agathon's Forgotten ring with 400 armor, and Keen's boots/gloves.
     
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  12. tereran9

    tereran9 Junior Expert

    How is it against rangers?
     
  13. Trailboss1

    Trailboss1 Forum Mogul


    I am so jealous Baragain. I've been looking for Keen's boots and gloves for years lol....You lucky, crazy scientist ;)
     
  14. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Useless, it doesn't have enough damage and less HP than I'd like.
    I hear you. I got one piece about 5 months after the set was released. The second and third didn't come untill 11 months later and by the grace of the RNG gods, I got both on the same day. That was actually what finally made me break my Defender's set. It was a bitter sweet day for me, cus I really liked the Defender's set.
     
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  15. Nasabot

    Nasabot Forum Greenhorn

    Sorry, this is not true. Both HP and armor are either linear or have diminishing returns, depending on your way of interpretation.

    adding 100HP to 1000HP is linear, but the more pften you add 100 HP the less the relative gain is:

    1000->1100HP: +10%
    2000->2100: +5%

    Armor works similar, but for the sake of simpler numbers, Id like to show the EDIT system. It works 1:1 the same way like drakensang:

    1000HP 0 armor: 1000 EHP(effective HP)
    1000HP 100 armor: 2000 EHP (100 Armor is 50% damage reduction)
    1000HP 200 armor: 3000 EHP(200 Armor is ~66% damage reduction)
    etc
    Every 1 armor represents +1% increased EHP. In Drakensang 500 armor are like +~26%

    This means, when you get more armor, the absolute EHP gain is linear, but the relative EHP gain is diminishing and the relative incraese is the important factor.
    Imagine you have 100 HP and 1000000 Armor(lets say this is 99% damage reduction).
    Adding 30 HP will increase your EHP by 30% while adding 30 armor will do almost nothing.

    I wonder why there is a 80% damage reduction limit, as with the current system, this doesnt make sense.


    To find the best HP/Armor ratio is actually completly impossible due the high complexity of this problem.

    Usually you want to maximize something like "relative% Armor_EHPgain X relative% HP_EHPgain" but there are tons of factors which makes this rule obsolet:
    -different gem potencies (HP:33, Armor:22, Resist: 40)
    -armor/resist penetration through skills->favours HP
    -damage spectrum of PvE and PvP enemies(physical vs elemental->makes armor more valueable, but armor is also more expensive considering gems)
    -different item affix potency (which is different for HP, armor, resist, but in my opinion this heavily favours Armor considering gem potencies)
    -class and skill usage distribution
    -potions which heal absolute HP->insignificantly favours armor and resist)

    Personally Id go like this:

    -prefer armor(primary) and Health(secondary) rolls on items
    -consider HP as best defensive stat (+5% more HP is better than getting 5%/5% EHP from armor/resist)
    -get resist(primary) and HP(secondary) from gems
     
    Last edited by moderator: Apr 27, 2015
  16. BigPapa

    BigPapa Forum Overlooker

    Nice post Nasa, I've used the Health + Armor reduction type of equation for a while to figure out best gem additions. The two things that cause the equation to not be as clean as i'd like though are Health regen, and elemental damage.

    For regen it's simple; the higher the HP the faster it regens. Not a critical aspect when you're taking 5k hits:eek: but in an extended fight it can be a major factor(talking PVE of course)

    Adding in elemental damage makes it more complicated. Using your reference to EHP, straight HP is effective against both physical and elemental damage so an HP gem is good for both; whereas, it takes two gems(Armor and Resist) to get an effective adjustment. So the choice would be something like 2x75 HP or 1x33 armor and 1x60 resists.

    I love the fact that for such a simple game, there is enormous complexity to be sorted through if you want to maximize resources and possibilities. Enjoyed your post.
     
    Last edited by moderator: Apr 27, 2015
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  17. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    There is also the argument of balance between resist vs armor. If fighting a mage, there is no question that resist would be better, but when fighting a ranger/DK, the armor is more useful. That is why having duplicate items where one has armor and the other has resist is beneficial, but that is not always an option. I would love to have a second Keen's belt to put armor gems in and be able to switch between that and my resist Keen's belt on the fly depending on my primary opponents. The difference of 400 Resist vs 240 Armor would be great to apply circumstantially.
     
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  18. -DeathsRevenge-

    -DeathsRevenge- Advanced

    If we talk PvP and you're a DK, the focus on HP is way more useful than defense. Why?

    Defense?? - Torso 4x armor + 5x jester gems, there you go.

    So why HP?

    Cause having much HP is insane when it comes to the healing. What kills DK's the most is usually the reduction sigularity/lagularity or iron brow -85% gives. So even if you had 10000 defense, taken away 85% of it will result in you dying FAST. Sure same if having much HP together with low defense, but didn't you see my 4x armor torso with jester gems? ;). The torso itself will almost give you enough armor lol. Find the balance, but if you're a DK, hold your focus on life or don't. Whatever.

    Btw not feeling great to suggest others to pay a lot of money to DSO/Bigpoint, but if you really want to be in the top PvP, you need the jester gems.

    Talking out of experince since I've been in the top too, but my pocket wouldn't keep up. ;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2015
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  19. Trailboss1

    Trailboss1 Forum Mogul

    Baragain, is Nasabot your son or a rivalry? ;)

    But I must say as a main DK player it is really hard to find that balance WITHOUT a credit card. Years ago, when Sargon has his own event and was king of the neighborhood, when I got the set I thought I was good to go. As I started getting more into the science of the stats and such and dabbed a little more into pvp, I find it's probably not a bad idea to have 3 different sets of gear. One set just for mages :D
     
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  20. anonynoob

    anonynoob Forum Apprentice

    When you reach 3500 armor, can it be even to only spam 75 life gem for PVE and forgetting about all resistances gems for a no dragonknight's player?
     
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