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Discussion in 'Headquarters Archive' started by CM Greg, Jul 14, 2015.

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  1. Master0fpuppets

    Master0fpuppets Forum Baron

    @trakilaki Please do read my next post in the DK's show what you have thread. Think everyone will see how much of a troll, spammer and lier you are. :)
  2. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    There you go ... you see? :D
    Dylannn likes this.
  3. Master0fpuppets

    Master0fpuppets Forum Baron

    Dude I just don't get what pleasure you have from insulting people, maybe it's just your style. Hope you have a nice day man.
  4. sebastian_fl

    sebastian_fl Count Count

    These pictures show nothing about warriors being weak or strong. It only shows Developers were weak, celebrating, or just out of their mind when designing the 6K draken weapon.
    _Baragain_ likes this.
  5. sdknightno1

    sdknightno1 Advanced

    Just to be clear, this is not a post about whether DKs are OP or not.

    We're all familiar with the mana/concentration/steam pool system from other mmorpg games. The concept is simple, most our skills deduct points from these pools, which then regenerate over time. Of course there are also skills and potions which can also refill those pools but I'm not going to go into those.

    Compared to the other three classes, the DK's rage pool system is unique because there is not passive regeneration but rather a passive depletion over time if not in combat. But what makes this system so unique is that aside from skills, DKs also gain rage from taking any kind of damage. So Essentially, their HP pool counts as a "secondary rage pool". In PvE, while there is natural HP regeneration, it is like the DKs kind of have a passive rage regeneration, it just takes 1 more step of converting the regenerated HP into actual rage points.

    This is the reason why there exists a small number of DKs who are extremely tough and hard to kill. Because the DK's battle frenzy heals % max HP, the healing amount goes up with more base HP. And when those healed HP is taken away from damage they are converted into rage points which then can be used to use more battle frenzy and heal more HP. The more base HP the DK has, the more HP battle frenzy heals and the more rage points will be gained when the HP is lost. I don't know the math of HP to rage conversion, but I imagine that if the base HP gets high enough, the healed HP will be converted to more than 60 rage, which was used for this skill. Unless of course the HP to rage conversion formula uses % HP lost rather than say, a flat amount of HP lost = a flat amount of rage gained.
    (I'm guessing that this was behind the rationale for the passive rage gain nerf?)

    I think for most DKs, this is fair and absolutely needed for them to survive, especially now that people do so much more damage. And to kill them one needs to rely on high burst damage within a small period of time before they can heal back up. What most people are complaining about is a small percentage of cash DKs with very high base HP for the healing and very high block and armor to prevent from being killed by burst damage.

    Balancing sure is a difficult task for the developers because without the heals, most of the DKs will be under-powered. But in the future updates when the HP and damage mitigation is further increase, I can only imagine that there will be much more complaining...

    Anyway, this is just my analysis of the current situation, not a rant.
    -HARRA81-, crazyelli and sebastian_fl like this.
  6. Shiladitya

    Shiladitya Padavan

    LOL DKS were unbalanced before 155 dks are unbalanced after 155 nerf dk regen nerf 2h dks, nerf dk mws nerf everything until sw and rangers are happy with killing dk by spamming 3 basic shots :D have you ever considered that dks are in this state currently with 6k draken PRECISELY because you can cause 5 digit damage figures in the span of 1 match? tell the developers to nerf your damage and then we will tell them to nerf the weapon too :) I have never spoken out about nerfing rangers or any other class till now but Dylannn the way you are whining about DK's in this forum makes me forget everything and think its just because of people like you belonging to other classes constantly complaining about dk that DSO is in its current state of idiotic pvp gameplay. YOU and your kin have brought this upon yourselves. Deal with it. There are still MANY rangers and SW and SM who can kill DKs quick enuf and YES DKs are still weak. DKs are currently weak with damage mitigation AND they also cant match up to damage dealt on opponents EVEN with 2h because of skill difference even if they have more damage . The only thing sustaining the DK in this game atm is the 6k draken weapon. If you want the current state to change ask developers to start nerfing damage from other classes OR ask developers to make the dk basic class stronger and take away the 6k draken weapon.
  7. sebastian_fl

    sebastian_fl Count Count

    nice post, total agreement. there is one more complicated balancing issue - the exhaustion. assuming hp, damages etc are all very well balanced across classes, exhaustion can be not 'balanced', if that word can be applicable here. what I mean is it can be reasonable for a very specific damage curve, but as you said somewhere the cap is rising, so the damages change, and if exhaustion is balanced for damage 1000, it will not be for damage 500 or 2000 anymore.
    -HARRA81- likes this.
  8. Dylannn

    Dylannn Board Analyst

    I'm not the one who's whining, I'm the one trying to make little Daywaker see that when his win/lose ratio in 1v1 goes from 400 to 300, that that's not a reason to shout on the forums to nerf mage and ranger :D.

    Also you got a 175% (when skilled) dmg stunning skill that can be used multiple times without cooldown if playing well. I've seen enough warriors like this, and they DONT lose. Simply because you aren't familiar with the new system, and haven't tried it out enough yet, doesn't mean that warrior is weak and nerfed. Try out multiple styles and combinations. So did I.

    Now thanks, and stop acting like a dramaqueen.

    Cheers ;)

    I don't know what's wrong with your eyes. But let's have a look again.

    1. I lost in the 2nd picture, hard to see ?
    2. Sure it was on 3 targets but 2 of them were not tanks at all and didn't even have 7k hp, so let's say 88k dmg for 1 warrior and then I died because of exhaustion.

    Funny how you say I'm whining while you don't even read my post and when you don't pay attention to my pictures.

    I understand people like @trakilaki when they don't take you seriously, because you aren't serious at all.

    And sure I have been playing a F2P warrior, even when it was at low lvl but I could kill most ppl. Now, are you satisfied?

    Have a nice evening.
  9. -HARRA81-

    -HARRA81- Forum Mogul

    What do we need here is longer "Round" times! The current system favors too much endless regeration class DK.
    What about removing the timer ? Or what about blocking ANY kind of skill based or passive healing from the items when the "Round"
    time is finished. Another thing what comes is the point distribution. Endlessly regerating DK's are taking the mother load of the score because they are the ones who are fighting 5 minutes after the timer, no wonder why 3vs3 is so empy in Agathon.

    In the end, you could provide a service which everyone could change character class (it would cost andermants) keeping the glyphs and stones and other currencies and rank, this service would be only available for end game players only. It might be usefull, even more if you are not satisfied with the final "so called class balancing" so that we can all happily regerate hours after hours in the arena :)

    One more comment about the "ablity to make different builds"... You can try all 3 against Dk with the SW. But you NEVER
    win the timer ;)
  10. Master0fpuppets

    Master0fpuppets Forum Baron

    Ok, my mistake you don't have to bee mean about it but you did score more damage then the DK did over 3 targets, so in the second picture you can not say all the damage done is to DK only, you where in 3v3 match. Advice, next time make sure non of the pictures is in Greek, I can't read Greek.

    How about we start to whine about your slow down -10%, wolfs every 30s, Adrenalin every 18-20s, explosive arrow 200% base damage on hit and explosion + braking armor to -85%, bird of pray 300% base damage, 15% increase in speed on deadly blow and many other stuff ... Come on man, get real, you have more then enough skills to make some serious damage and what do DK's have, a little bit of healing and you want to take that away to just to make it easy for Ranger to win PvP match ... change the class then if you don't like it, play with something that you like. I switch DK's for SM's but not giving up on DK's in full.

    I would not look-up to much on trakilaki, but fine if you to are one of thouse people with no manner go around forums insulting people non stop or spaming the threads with non sence just to provoke someones reaction, that not ok man.
    -Skygazer- likes this.
  11. Shiladitya

    Shiladitya Padavan

    Back to excuses of skill. skill cannot be fought out with words on forum. it has to be fought out on the battlefield. i will just say that there are plenty of Rangers and SW's who can move about and have enuf of a balanced build who wont care how much a dk uses charge in a duel. Just to put your perspective right. Ask the best balanced dk and ask the best balanced ranger/ Steammech in your server to tank fight. See who wins. Whats the point of a melee tank if other ranged classes can tank better than the melee class?
    Who is the drama queen here who is constantly spamming the forum with pvp match scores and trying to give vague ideas of how pvp is currently? If you wont admit that pvp is messed up now then one of the people who will be regretting this when guild wars come up would also include you. Also according to how other such games went, after guild wars there will also come server vs server battles I am sure. You will get to see real monster ranged classes soon.

    LOL Low level f2p warrior is OP against ranged classes wearing witch chaser/hunter set. WOW.
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2015
    -Skygazer- likes this.
  12. Edphin

    Edphin Forum Apprentice

    I played with my ranger when r155 released, and i found that the explosive shot has very low dmg againt mobs and the armor breaking skill was the only reason to use it. But then I played with my DK and found that too much Passive rage gain nerf. During pvp i was easily killed by rangers with an explosive shot.

    There is no balance between two players in a game like DSO and you are talking about balance. Only a heavy spender DK can regenerate HP like you mentioned and even though F2P you defeated him in battle. Rangers are too OOOOOOPPPPP:eek::eek::eek::eek:.
  13. Dylannn

    Dylannn Board Analyst

    Full pink/leg items and not even nice gems, lvl 33 btw.

    Greek? Da-fuq? I don't understand why you even make a post in here. Everything you say is either wrong or a lie. And btw, the screen we talk about is in English, lol.

    And what are you doing? LOL. At least I show facts by posting screens, you are just posting your opinion, which is not a fact. I'm just stating that everyone can win vs one another.

    If you don't understand my point, then that's ok, but don't try to act like you do... lol.


    You are not even lvl 50 yet, so basically you haven't been able to test the new systems yet. Later on I might listen to you but now, no thanks.
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2015
  14. Hiro73

    Hiro73 Forum Expert

    The new set of Ammon will be competitive with the set of Karabossa? Or it will be like the old set and it will have no critical impact and no good attack speed ? The whole set of Ammon should be redone, it is inappropriate to user expectations. For example have you seen the rings of life ? They are rings of defense but are without armor.
    Some legendary rings have 1000 hp and 300 armor.
  15. Shiladitya

    Shiladitya Padavan

    Fact is royal gemmed full jester gems dks with good gear and tactics cannot win against royal gemmed full jester gem ranged class with good gear and tactics without using exhaustion damage/death. Which is not how pvp should be.

    Fact is low level complete f2p experienced/non experienced dk's cannot win against low level experienced complete f2p ranged classes.

    These are facts.

    Data doesnt lie. DSO changed things once for DKs after 155 precisely because data showed the truth. Now they arent getting the full picture because balance has been created by introducing the 6k draken weapon and regen based dk play which uses exhaustion to kill. Point of this whole discussion is... That is not how PvP should be.

    Cheerios ;)
    Kiwigal1244 likes this.
  16. Dylannn

    Dylannn Board Analyst

    I see enough warriors beating the .... out of others. Training is what everyone needs. In facts there are warriors that I could beat pre-R155 and who win 2-0 against me after the release. Fact is that everyone gained stats. When everyone got lvl 50 wisdom we'll see what will happen. And btw your fact is not completely true as I saw enough warriors with lower gems beating such players :p.

    Don't forget your healing skill hasn't got a cooldown at all and don't forget that DK was buffed already after R155. I don't say that warriors are OP. All classes are OP, you just gotta know how to play with them. Now thanks, that's it. A skilled warrior can win vs anyone, that's my opinion.

    If you don't understand me, fine, your choice.
  17. Walt

    Walt Forum Greenhorn

    I was just reading some of the post about dks these past pages
    some utter nonsense

    Dylannn u don't know much about dks and you act like you know it all.
    Get an and end game dk and play some decent amount of time with it in pvp
    then i might consider your "arguments" about "balanced pvp".

    Playing to get other players exhausted in a battle, you think that's fun?
    that's one of the most pathethic ways to play, and it's ruining everyones experience in pvp
    but guess what? dks are pathethic nowadays with the games pvp system fucked up beyond repair now,
    so the only way some warriors see out of this, is to play till exhaustion and win like that, because you simlpy have a very low chance to be competitive against ranged classes.

    Pvp was never perfect in this game, but now it's just ridiculous.
  18. Dylannn

    Dylannn Board Analyst

    You can have your opinion about me, go ahead, I wouldn't even mind. I get my knowledge from others, honestly. The warriors that I know are decent and don't have the problems that you talk about. Maybe y'all need some farming. I know people that can tank and deal massive damage, so well...

    As I see you're not playing for quite a long time... :/
  19. BigPapa

    BigPapa Forum Overlooker

    Glad to see we are back to normal pizzing at each other instead of trying to solve problems. Must mean we have gotten over all the R155 issues.

    I'm wondering what Haruki will do to clean up all this nonsense in her thread and get it back on track.
  20. Novadude

    Novadude Commander of the Forum

    the 10% healing skill you seem to be referring to (battle frenzy's 10% spread out over 5 seconds) effectively has a 5 second cool down, since you can't stack it and costs 60 rage (which doesn't regenerate, and requires getting hit or hitting something in melee distance), whereas the dwarven 5% skill costs 15/20 steam (a passively regenerating resource, which can also be regenerated by shooting something at range), takes place instantly, and can be spammed over 5 seconds, although you do have to select the requisite talents. A dwarf with 60 steam can regenerate 15% or 20% of their HP in 4 actions while passively regaining steam to activate their heal skill even more times whereas a DK with 60 rage has to wait 5 seconds to get 10% of their HP back while hitting and getting hit to regain rage to do it again.
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