Suggestion Bring back sapphires!

Discussion in 'Creative Corner' started by ΣMiwel, Nov 15, 2018.

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Do you want Sapphires to make a great comeback?

  1. Yes

  2. No

  1. MikeyMetro

    MikeyMetro Forum Overlooker

    How do you know what the idea was? Hell, the devs do not even know.

    If you can find the twitch vid justifying r185 the reason given was to have a system that could be continuously built on in the future. That concept was trashed just a year later with the radical changes from r208 (or thereabouts.) Now here we are almost another year later (probably will be by the time they actually release this) with yet another radical change.

    So, please, explain to me how YOU know what the original intent was when there has been no sign of a cohesive design from the devs in years.

    As for sapphires affecting pvp in the future if they want to bring gems back to the arena, that is utter nonsense. They devs have demonstrated they have the ability to turn things on and off for the arena. Actually, this ability has been shown for years with pots, ess, pets, regen runes, et. al.

    Sapphires should have never been screwed with in the first place. It only been divisive and has done nothing to improve the game.
  2. MaxDisappointed

    MaxDisappointed Forum Master

    It's not about what I like, it's about how it is planned to be.
    You are answering yourself, devs can, devs wanted it to be like this years ago and they failed, now they are doing the final step to finally finish that goal.
    If new players since sapphires were not dropped anymore could play normally and have high attack speed cuts, where's your problem?
    Your character is not going to collapse.
  3. That's the whole point of this thread... bring them BACK and do NOT touch current player Sapphires. There's people who invested a lot of resources and money to acquire these beautiful gems... and never in my life have I thought "wow *** that player is so op because he has sapphire gems"..

    It's never too late. I've played so many F2P characters, I even switched servers twice and always managed to get 5 polished/radiant sapphires quite easily. It just takes effort, if you want it, work for it. I had a friend who was nearly full sacred without even spending a single penny and this was really impressive back in the level 45 days.

    I highly doubt that..
    MikeyMetro and trakilaki like this.
  4. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    I am ignoring the game and the forums lately ... but i had to log in and burst some bubbles.
    Let me summarize ... you are a new player who started playing the game after the Qaizah expansion ... YET ... you know everything about the game and the Blues ... even if you haven't seen a single one in your DSO gaming career.
    With the following statements:
    You are claiming that you are one of the DEVS ...
    IF so ... then ... you are proving Mikey's point
    because you my friend are clueless ...
    Runes and gems were coexisting in the game since ever ... since the start ... since the original dev team.
    They were called Special Gems back then instead of the fancy "rune" name with a fancy icons. ("fancy" and shifting to "mainstream" is the reason for the fall of the game BTW)
    Here is the proof
    These Special Gems (now called "runes") were existing from the early stages.
    I actually believe your statement ... that you are one of the devs ... because they are having same broken logic as you do.
    First let me make something clear ... even without sapphires I will be having more of everything than the new players. You see I am a necromancer in real life ... i do black magic ... just to screw over the new players.
    I didn't farm for years so the new players can be on par with me. ALSO .... old players are having items that new players will never get. WHAT? they should lose those items too????
    Let me show one of the "black magic features" new players will never have:
    You see the huge difference between attack speed and weapon attack speed?
    So the devs will be taking out everything the old player have but the new ones don't.
    They will be shooting themselves in a foot ... with that they are sending clear message to the new players --- "don't start playing the fricking game because at the point you become an old player your items will be taken out too".
    Do you even think when you are writing things in the forum?
    You see ... the old players were new at some point ... then they became old ... that is how all things are going in the real life too.
    Were were you or any other new player ... when old players were keeping the game alive throughout the years?
    You were non-existent entities in this game. IS it old player's fault? NO it is your fault that you are late!
    If someone meets a girl ... then he gets married to that girl and she becomes his wife ... at later stage there will be another person telling himself "but it is not fair, he met her before me, that is not fair lets screw his family so i can lay my hands on his wife".
    If that person tries that with my wife ... i will break every single bone in his body ... should he tries again ... oh dude he is so screwed (i will just quote Johnny Rotten:
    Should i continue comparing how pointless your logic is?
    Some people have old timers in their possession ... young people nowadays can't buy those machines anymore. Should we kill the owners and take their old timers?

    Another one:
    Actually this quote is amusing :D
    How the bloody hell should a player know who and when at some point in future will someone start playing the game ... and what will actually bother him at that point in the future ... so the old player should write something that will probably affect the possible new player who will start playing sometime in the distant future?
    I mean ... what the hell? That can't be done even by The Terminator.
    When you are voting ... are you voting for your neighbors or you are voting for yourself? Of course you are voting for your future and your beliefs and how the hell should you know what other people need?
    Actually if you read the posts and the feedback there are posts from all kinds of players ... old and new. There are only two types of players: those who dare to spend their time discussing in the forum and those who don't care about forum. the former are leachers ... they are only reading without contributing ... and there are no difference between old and new leechers.
    I know many old players who have never written a single post in the forum ... so their voice has never been heard. And I don't care.

    Then what?
    Everything is explained in my proposal ... that's what.
    The arena is not broken because of sapphires and runes ... the arena is broken because someone let Tiered items with huge base stats and braking buffs/set bonuses on top of that. That is why the arena is broken.
    We had gems and runes and enchantments in the past ... the arena was clearly working fine.

    And guess what ... even if people are fighting naked with bare hands without any item equipped .... the old players will AGAIN have advantage over the new players and noobs. Because they know all the tricks in the game.
    There is nothing fair in a fight ... and it will never be.
    Fight is not fair ... he who has more resources always wins ... life is not fair.
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018
  5. heror

    heror Forum Baron

    How can sapphires give flat value when such thing doesnt exist in any game. there is no such thing as 9 speed because that is overbroken.
    I read your proposal and im still saying you cant treat rubies like sapphires
  6. MaxDisappointed

    MaxDisappointed Forum Master

    The fact of having started playing later does not discredit me to talk about something, specially if all the information is collected in the forums and i can read it all, no matter what year they happened.
    Basically, the fact sapphires stop dropping when creating runes and give the possibility to change them for onyxes or runes does not give you a clue to see the intentions of the devs?
    But it is only matter of time that the new players learns the tricks to fight properly. If new players can't get an specific gem, what should they wait for?

    This is just the final step to finish this problematic (quite late, but at least it arrives), things either become complete or not done, it was not fair to allow old players to equip them for years but in the same time not allowing new players to get them.

    Edit: It seems that we forget that they will not remove the gems, they will change them, you should not say that:
    Game is changing constantly so they are changing an item to another, not taked out from you, or are you not going to receive the equivalent rune?
    So seems that you like game changing but just when affects not to your old account because you deserve some respect.
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018
  7. heror

    heror Forum Baron

    Thats like saying uhhh im a doctor who just graduated but i can take this desease which needs years of experienced, everything is written in the book he he he.
    No if you havent experienced the saphire era just dont comment and keep your honor or just complain like the low ppl do either way nobody is gonna take you seriously without experience whatsoever, and believe me war against traki is unwinable war just submit defeat before its too late.
  8. MaxDisappointed

    MaxDisappointed Forum Master

    What is the sapphire era for you? Because if you can still play with them I would say that the era is not over yet, although it almost ends :)
    Are you meaning sapphire era ended for just certain players?
    I started playing 2 years ago, i'm not a newbie, you mean i'm not experienced enough in the game?
  9. heror

    heror Forum Baron

    you are not experience on the current topic dont twist my words.
  10. MaxDisappointed

    MaxDisappointed Forum Master

    According to your logic, a blind person is not experienced in life because he could not see it, but he has felt the ground every time he tried to walk until he learned to dodge the obstacles.
    I never had a sapphire in my inventory but I know what a sapphire does and I could see how it creates more facilities to old players to reach better stats and try different combinations, new players are more limited in that way.
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018
  11. sargon234

    sargon234 Commander of the Forum

    isn't the removal of sapphires another way to force those who use 1hand in pve to switch to 2hand?A 2hander is required to have an ornament full of onyxes, while a 1 hand player can however take some onyxes from the ornament and exchange them with sapphires

    Also if the problem is that sapphires aren't available to new players, the solution isn't to remove them completely from the game, the solution is making them buyable and droppable
    It's not hard, but i guess easy solution beyond the grasp of the developers
  12. MikeyMetro

    MikeyMetro Forum Overlooker

    :D More nonsense... unless you have the vBulletin forum saved somewhere.
    _Baragain_ likes this.
  13. MaxDisappointed

    MaxDisappointed Forum Master

    And don't forget that this game is online and i don't play alone, i met people who plays since beta and they can tell me all the info about past releases and how much the game changed, they can give me info about sapphires, or the lovely Wiki of trakis ;)
    Apparently I need a graduate to talk about sapphires and I did not know, sorry guys :p
  14. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Ambassador

    Apparently you are doing it at the moment, so, sadly, you don't need.

    However... it would be better if you needed, because currently you have no idea what you are talking about.

    This is just proving your hypocrisy. No, it's not about what you like. No, you have nothing against everyone being able to get sapphires again. No, you aren't the most knowledgeable one around.

    But, when I read your words, they are saying exactly the opposite.

    You don't like the suggestion, because there would be one more farmable item.
    You are actually against everyone being able to get sapphires again, since you are downvoting the poll.
    And you keep talking like you were a know-it-all.
    You keep saying that you respect Traki, but in fact you are disrespecting him in every possible way except for direct insults.

    Removing sapphires is further inducing imbalance, destabilising the whole situation in the game and breaking the build diversity. Despite all those people who keep hating the idea, the majority of those who voted in the poll is for my suggestion. Devs! You! Yes you! You can't come by this like nothing happened and push those changes! Backtrack before it gets too late.
    MikeyMetro likes this.
  15. MaxDisappointed

    MaxDisappointed Forum Master

    Never said that.
    And you are not disrespecting devs? There is no rule that forces devs to do everything that people vote.
    There is a lot of stupid ideas that are voted positively by players, if devs had to heed all those proposals game would be chaos.
  16. Mal3ficent

    Mal3ficent Guest

    That is why cool moderators and admins exist. They are passing only worthy and plausible ideas on to dev team.
    At least that is a rule for the English Moderation Team.
    This thread is already in my list of worthy ideas for the next report.

  17. Akageshi

    Akageshi Forum Duke

    I haven't studied this too much, but I don't quite see how the whole sapphire -> rune exchange is a theft.
    Each sapphire will be converted into a rune that gives more %att.speed than the sapphire if inserted into a weapon. Do people call it a theft because the same rune will be much weaker when put into an adornment? Or is it because small sapphires will be converted into much stronger runes, like flawed sapphire that gives +0.5% and will be converted into a +6.0% rune? Well, good for all of you who have never ever combined your small sapphires...

    But I like the idea of having gems giving absolute values and runes giving % values. It seems consistent. And so if that is the goal, I mean consistency, what about gems for travel speed, resource, and cooldowns? There was a suggestion around to have these stats displayed in the Character chart as well, btw. but they do exist nonetheless.
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
  18. Arr

    Arr Forum Expert

    they paid a lot of money for those saphires (they really paid for attack speed not sapphires) and they dont like this transformation because of the unilateral change of conditions, like with dwarfs when they implemented critical hit rate and they had to change their builds. Anyways people will have the same (or almost) attack speed they have in r212, they just will need to make some tweaks.
  19. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    There is so much ignorance in this thread. I won't address it all since the people who are the most messed up are least likely to pay attention to someone who actually knows what they are talking about, but I can answer some legitimate questions that do have a factual answer.
    An old Royal Sapphire is worth 486k andermant. I have four of them for a total value of 1.944 million andermant. Not even considering the subjective value of sapphires vs speed runes, there is a very real theft that will occur in the exchange.

    Each of those Royal Sapphires will convert into a new Mighty Rune of Celerity. But, at the same time, Sacred Sapphires, despite being 1/3rd the andermant value of a Royal Sapphire, will also convert to a new Mighty Rune of Celerity. That, right there is an undeniable theft of 1.296 million andermant vs an individual who has 4x Sacred Sapphires. I'm of the opinion that if they are forcing this change on us with a severely lopsided exchange rate (due to their being 9 tiers of gems vs 4 tiers of runes), they could at least compensate us some of the andermant that they are stealing from us. I'd even settle for only getting half of the value that they are stealing from me and be happy getting back 684k andermant… but we all know that's not going to happen. The last time they did something "fair" like this was when they removed CoTs from the game and compensated users with andermant based on how many CoTs they had at the time of the update, but that was years ago and under a very different developer team.

    In fact, I could take that entire "sapphire to rune" chart and show you even more inequality at the lower levels... for example, a Flawed Sapphire converts to the same rune as a Polished Sapphire! It takes 81 Flawed Sapphires to make one Polished Sapphire, but they are exchanging for the same rune? Is that not "Theft"? Someone who held on to their small speed gems all this time could get a lesser rune for 79 andermant while someone who had a decent polished Sapphire would also get one lesser rune at a price of 6400 andermant.

    Here is my last example on this line of logic. A mighty Rune of Celerity is worth 162k-486k andermant, if we are talking about a Sacred or Royal conversion. How if you somehow had the foresight to save nine flawed sapphires, you could make the same rune for 79*3(lesser)*3(norm)=711 andermant. Hummmmmm... 711 vs 162k-486k... Yep, sounds like theft to me. It's only a x228 to x684 price difference... Totally "Fair."

    Or, consider a user who's farmed their rear off and managed to make enough speed runes that they will be able to go to almost full Grand Runes either immediately after the update or within a couple months. The sapphires, which could be very useful if left alone, will end up mostly wasted as overflow runes.

    I've always been a fan of bringing back sapphires as an "absolute" speed increase. This would fit with the theme of gems being absolutes while runes are percentages. Problem is, the time for this change has mostly passed. The best time to do this would have been back in Feb/Mar of last year when they introduced speed runes, and doing it anytime after this upcoming release (when they forcibly remove all sapphires) will just spark outrage. Without speed gems, there is less uniqueness than ever in how to build one's character. The only viable builds will be as many large rubies as possible on the weapon, and as many large onyxes as possible on the decoration.

    Long story short, the odds that the devs are going to change their mind this far into the development of R214 is probably a big fat "0." Same goes for them compensating us for the theft of our hard earned gems. The only consolation I have is that I'll be able to convert two of my sapphires to onyxes before the release and I'll be up to 5x Royal Onyxes, which will save me a good chunk of time and farming.

    Don't make me laugh... There are people on this forum who've forgotten more information on this topic than you could have learned in a year of researching and asking questions of these players you've met who've played from beta. But please, do share the founts of wisdom and insight you have about how gems used to be and how useful/relevant sapphires were/are. While you are at it, please feel free to share other relevant details about conditions in the game over the many years and what impact those conditions had on the changing meta involving sapphires.
  20. MaxDisappointed

    MaxDisappointed Forum Master

    Hmmm.... I'm confused, when you talk about new players, sapphires are very easy to get so let's go back to drop sapphires, but if you talk about old players, you all have spend a loooot of money to get them, right? Hahahahahaha.
    No one of you did even spend 1 million andermant on your sapphires xD
    It's not a theft since you accept T&C when you start playing and you enjoyed your sapphires enough, in case you pay for something, you know that may not be permanently in the game.
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
    Hetsunien likes this.