"Class" balance related.

Discussion in 'General Archive' started by Vazful, Jun 6, 2018.

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  1. Vazful

    Vazful Junior Expert

    I start by saying that classes dont feel like classes in DS online, because they lack any inherit passives that give each class unique stats. For example, in [EDIT], classes ARE unique because while lvling up classes learn different passives. For example, tanks learn Shield Mastery (max lvl 6 or so) while a mage doesnt learn Shield Mastery at all or even if there is some kind of Mage class that learns Shield Mastery it will only be lvl 1 or 2. Tanks reach the highest physical defense because of their Heavy Armor mastery, etc etc. Those are just 2 examples.
    So whats unique about the "classes" in DS? They all have same resists, same armor, same speed, same AS, same block rate/dmg, same crit chance/dmg and they can all develop it to same amounts. You can call it balanced but it doesnt invalidate the fact that classes dont feel like classes.

    On the top of that, every class has been given "same" skills, they can all dodge, they can all stun, they can all become immune to stun, etc etc. Which again, makes all classes feel the same.
    Attack and casting speeds can reach insane speeds so u cant say there is much difference there either and they can all do pretty much the same dmg.
    So whats left? ohh DK can reach more HP.... yeahh... HP means nothing without armor/resists and considering the huge dmges doesnt matter much either.

    ---

    Range itself is an advantage. YET, DK is the class that doesnt have RAGE which is needed to chase down his enemies ??? and in order for him to get rage he needs to be beaten up....???. The amount of rage gained after managing to land hits should be a lot more !! Just doesnt make any sense.
    And dont bring up the skills and how u should use them to reach safely to my opponent. Thats not the mindset with which u design a game nor it justifies the bad design in the first place. You can still give DK skills for surviveability etc but the core design and gameplay has to make sense in the first place.
    Plus those skills have big cds and after that u are left to suffer due to the range difference and the difficulty to see whats comming on u once again.

    ---

    Now an actual suggestion

    Add farther camera option (this should be a must for this game).
    Right now being DK simply sucks, u run half blindly on stuff without having vision while every other class just stands there in their safety range spamming their EDIT . I dont see how this is even remotely fair/balanced. I just think the devs never really though about how broken and unfair the short camera option is.

    And before you start the same story of me being new and noob and not well geared etc. ALL these things dont matter when the game design itself is simply wrong and the only reason you dont mind it is because you are used to it, u have been adapted to it. So before commenting consider the FACT that ppl can adapt to any situation but that doesnt mean those situations are the best, it just means they are adapted to it so its normal to them.

    /peace.
     
    Last edited by moderator: Jun 6, 2018
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  2. cdeepal

    cdeepal Forum Baron

    How do you define a class?
    That is entirely up to individual games.
    Just because DSO classes are not similar to the classes that You have seen in another game, or other games, doesn't make they are not classes.

    Having said that, I would prefer more diversity in DSO classes. But I will never say they are not classes.

    I agree that there are some flows in the game that makes PvP between classes unfair at certain stages.
    Let me explain few points.

    First, a newbie DK will have a very tough time facing up to the other classes because of the lack of defenses. However, the defenses of a DK and for that matter for most 1H builds will advance together with the offensive capabilities while for a 2H build it would only be mostly the offensive capabilities that advances. In the beginning 2H players (and specially 2H ranged classes) will have a definitive advantage against Melee classes. But this gets diminishes as the player gets stronger. And there comes a point due to the defensive advances plus offensive advances, 1H players become stronger than 2H players. From this point after, it is the 1H who has the advantage over 2H and when a DK reaches to the top, he becomes the King of PvP due to this curve.

    Honestly, I don't see a problem with this. But, some people, specially the newbie DKs can get really discouraged due to this in the early game.
     
  3. Kraken8

    Kraken8 Padavan

    Finally someone had to say about it , warriors with R209 get nerfed xD. All classes got something and DK lost something . The biggest problem i see in PVP (and i speak about 1v1 and 3v3 , other arenas are just mess from spammers ) is with mages , they have unstun skills (1hand players) every 4-5 seconds and now they can hit ice ball where they want xDD , So lets see again , warriors lose the 33% hp heal and mages get the best skill made even more OP , so a DK when is next to mages they just unstun (from teleport or the ice thing) put the hole (singularity ? i am not sure how its called in english) and start hitting you with ice ball!! So we have to go close when we have dragon skin , but they see it and run all the map around , and when our skill gone they start spamming again q8+ iceball, and before you say about noobies and pros , i speak about Top pvp players, top dks and top mages . Ah and i forget they removed the faster cooldown (spent 5points to use) to Furius Battle Cry skill, so when a mage get you....you are most of the times gone. So they balanced it to the best for mages and destroyed warriors...i would like to see more opinions about it
     
  4. heror

    heror Forum Baron

    Pre 209 when the tank was THE MOST UTER BUSTED CLASS why didnt any of you tanks cry to buff the mages or maybe rangers who were weaker than you ? The whole idea of rebalancing was to tune up the other classes. If you have played other games you know REBALANCING doesnt mean everybody gets somthing , no it mean the OP gets nerfed for a period of time and the weker get OP for a period of time , pretty much a shift in classes.(Altough i didnt get why the oil slick buff for dwarfs was added ).
    I dont get how all you can say tank is unplayable ? with tanks still being the second fastest calss = unplayable ??? you people cant play if arent number 1 ?

    Balanced it the best for mages ? who were pretty much the weakest ? By the last statement of yours i see that you havent seen a max cooldown tank who has the furious battle cry permanent. Let me give you a hint mages DONT have a speed boost so fighting with a permanent +40% movement speed tank was getting soo annoying cuz you can have perfect boots with 30 % speed while he 25 adn will still outrun you ... and now when they try to fix its a nerf for tank and the class became unplayable ?????


    Now enough with the rant i have to add something with good ieda here, not only spam :D.
    The idea that BP makesw everybody build the same doesnt mean you cant be unique with your own class.
    Im a manabuild glasscannon mage who doesnt have max dmg , my max is 33.500 for now ( i still need to make royal rubies) but im specialised in spammin skills in the group with 220 mana when in group with another mage.
    Or if you want to be unqie DK you can play bruiser DK on 2h with a lot of hp and resistance but respectable 24-25k dmg which is nice
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
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  5. Kraken8

    Kraken8 Padavan


    Where exactly did you see the unplayable ? Did i wrote this ? i dont think so . Lets start . Cause most of the players didnt realize that 3v3 and 1v1 was not for 2hand doesnt matter that the other classes where OP , what i mean . To all classes got months to realize that this arenas are not only the spam thing and they need defence too cause there is no respawn in same round! So i dont know who you are or how often do you play 3v3 , but i will inform you that mages,rangers etc last months saw that and started to craft 1hands , and i can say the skilled ones was pretty strong in arena with same posibilities to win every class . So the mages before the release was able to kill tanks too . But now their class is even better . And you know what most ppl thing ? That spamming around is arena. Why i have to be very skilled DK to not die from fireballs,iceballs , ice spam , and more ?? and mages just have to spam in 1 place and want to win ? I cant understand this , i have to run to all other classes to hit them (and survive from the stuns and hits all the time) when the others can only stay in 1 place and spam spam spam . Skilled mages always could won . There are some names now in arena that was OP before 209 and even better now , but i dont want put names on the conversation . And in 50lvl , and even more in 45lvl when 2hands was completely forgotten and the mages had to learn HOW TO PLAY to win someone..... If warriors goes like a brick to a mage without skill they die easy, but when a mage just spam spam without skill, spam and teleport they have much more chance to win !!
     
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  6. Shansurri

    Shansurri Active Author

    You don't actually play a mechanic, do you.
     
  7. Kaydranzer

    Kaydranzer Someday Author

    I dont know who you are or how skilled you are. There is just a saying, i caught from a fellow DK. "If a spamming mage can kill you, you are a bad DK". Of course this is related to the 1handed variant.
    Mages do have a chance now against Dk's and it seems better balanced than before and of course we got DK demanding nerfs. Wow. DK is the only class, which was consistent over the years. They never were bad. If not on #1 then on #2. Now they get somehow balanced and think they are too weak against mages. In arena, the biggest threat to a 1H DK is a ranger, because of the massive burst of EA. Then follows the dwarf. A mage cant even scratch you, if you have good stats.

    A skilled mage loses in 9 out of 10 cases against an even skilled and equiped DK. So as long this doesnt shift in the exact opposite, you are just exaggerating.
     
  8. [MACEDONIAN]

    [MACEDONIAN] Forum Greenhorn

    Yes..you are right...I play this game more than 6 years and finally DK class is destroyed . PVP is no more option for DK because we lost all in PVP and other classes gain damage, skils and cool down time reduction. Everyone in their discussions forget one thing..DK is melee clas..that means that we need to catch the opponent to hit him an in between we need to survive all this ice ,fire , armor pearsing arrows ant other good stuff. So no my fellow mages , this is a not balance , this is the end of DK class. Just look how many DK now in arena and all is clear. Can anyone from you wise developers answer to me why my class need to have lower base damage, higher resurses spending to farm and killing bosses, higher cool down time ??? It will be more honest from you to say in our faces that you dont like DK class and simply we to stop play this game ..
     
  9. Kaydranzer

    Kaydranzer Someday Author

    You are mixing up PvP and PvE.

    Despite the downside you mentioned about DK, he is still faster than a mage. So there is no point in buffing him in damage. About PvP, DK got weaker, especially 1H but this was necessary. 1H DK was by far the best PvP Class. No one could kill 1 H DK except a 1H DK. If something only gets countered by itself, its straight up op. If you get killed by icespam, dont worry, it will be fixed with next release. For the sake of balance, 2h Players should be able to quick burst down 1H DK's, while DK can still onehit you with a charge attack.
     
  10. LordKotton

    LordKotton Forum Apprentice

    Well my 2 cents.. mages are way to op..and there rage is way to far.. i cant even hit 1 spammin ice/fireball with mech at all.. hmmm why is his range farther.. ? and ranger can just sit back and spamm exp arror.. for farther with out aimin.. How is this fair/balanced?
     
  11. Divinefury

    Divinefury Forum Apprentice

    A skilled mage win most of fights against Dks now.
    If we talk about those few 3-4 top Dks, in Heredur, we're around 7-10 for mages. DKs who play at debuff, well maybe 5-5.
     
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