Feedback Class Rebalancing - Spellweaver

Discussion in 'Discussions on Current Topics' started by Mal3ficent, Apr 17, 2018.

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  1. Mal3ficent

    Mal3ficent Guest

    Dear Heroes of Dracania

    Please tell us the skills of the Spellweaver which in your opinion still needs to be reworked.
    A short description why and how you would change it would be very helpful.
    Please try to keep it short and precise.

    If you are unsure what sort of feedback is being asked for, please read this thread.
    Any off-topic posts/pointless rants will be deleted.

    Thank you for your support.

    Your Drakensang Online Team
  2. Sevilla

    Sevilla Someday Author

    Destruction are used only for fun, because the DPS as same or less than frozen sphere, you can only truly use on grimmar circle if you wait all monsters spaws, my sugestion is to keep all talent without touching, but shorten the cooldown, maybe to 30s.

    Meteor only have use to active herald bonus, at moment not even fun with this skill, is suppose to final atack to deal with a massive amont of monsters, so large the area of effect, at last on pve, I think 60s cooldown is to much for this skill.

    Chain lightning, turn on chain hit of 5 or more, but each hit, decrease the damage until the last targe, it's very usefull to do some maps on lv1.

    Turn guardian usefull again, at last 3-5 hits on infernal III bosses.

    Mana crystal is really cool, keep this please.

    Teleport aftermath, only 1s is too low, a little rise on MS and you can't use this (often happens).

    SUPERDOUPER Junior Expert

    i would like to see guardian being more usefull and not get 1 hit by mob, destrucion takes too long to shot, usless in pvp, and maybe lightning stirke could use some boost too, cheers
  4. EhtovK

    EhtovK Old Hand

    Let's break it down then:

    • Magic missile: 5 point talent still unchanged, used by 5% or less of the player base because of the activation condition (per final blow), if you truly want to give us a healing option, turn it into, maybe, a very small % of your hitpoints (like 0.2%, something like that) per critical hit, something not too gamebreaking for PvP, but that could be used for boss fights as well.
    • Fireball: No suggested changes.
    • Ice missile: The main change needed for this skill is for bosses/champions not to be immune to the "covered in frost" effect, bosses bleed, bosses suffer slow movement speed/double damage from marking, if you really want to make classes more even, give us the chance to slow them down a bit with the frost skills even if it's for a milisecond, we're the class with the supposed less survivability due to our "control" skills, let us control a bit more then, and of course this would increase the viability of the Sigrismar's set, which has some effects that are 0% useful in boss fights due to said immunity.
    • Frost Nova: 5 point talent still useless in PvE and PvP, again, because of the activation condition (per hit of a frozen enemy), it's a chain-waste of 2 stunning and 1 release skill, even more of a waste when used with astral phenomenon, if you changed it for "per hit of a covered in frost enemy" and decreased the explosion damage a bit to not make it OP, it might be considered by some frost oriented builds, but right now stands as one of the most useless talents in the tree. Also, 2 point talent is not a good deal, 1 more second of frost in PvE and 0.3 more seconds in PvP are in no way worth wasting 2 points, maybe double (2 more seconds PvE, 0.6 seconds in PvP) and we could be approaching something more reasonable).
    • Teleport: No suggested changes.
    • Lightning strike: The current 5 point talent falls as a blessing for boss fights and some stronger champions, since the explosion's delay makes it too small of a game changer for crowds, definitely an improvement as it is from the previous stun, but if you want to take it further, maybe it could use a 0.5 or 1 second faster explosion to increase its viability outside boss fights.
    • Frost Wind: Two things still surpass me from this skill, why does the description says "spherical icy gust" when it clearly has the shape of a cone, and why doesn't it freeze enemies by default and forces us to invest 3 points for our main stun skill to work as it should, I'd make it stun as a base and translate that 3 point talent in something like increased time for the "covered in frost" debuff duration, not to be confused with "freeze/stun" time.
    • Chain Lightning: I'm going to paraphrase Sevilla above me here, for chain lightning to be competitive vs Ice missile and Magic missile it needs some core rework, it's rather decent against crowds, but for single targets (Boss fights, PvP), it just can't compete with the other 2 basic attacks, so I agree on increasing the damage of the first hit and make it hit less and less on subsequent targets, like 80% first enemy hit, 60% second enemy hit, 40% third enemy hit by CL (don't kill me, I'm just throwing suggested/approximate numbers), this would increase the viability against single targets, but would also require the removal and reworking of the 5 point talent stun to avoid perma-stun abuse + decent damage in PvP.
    • Guardian: The fact that it can crit now is awesome, but, its survivability on high level maps like infernal I, II, III is laughable, it has several restrictions like "no more than one guardian at the time" and it had no crit for a reason, it's mostly meant to be a diversion for a low survivability class, and support with a bit of extra damage, not solely a source of good damage, so I'd rather have the crit taken away again at the cost of significantly improving its survivability.
    • Destruction: Just diminish the casting speed a little bit and *maybe* reduce the range a bit too so that it doesn't get prone to skill-less kills in PvP, no other suggested changes.
    • Singularity: I'd remove the "debuff gradient", but this could be problematic for PvP, if you were able to keep the movement speed gradient only and spread the rest equally across all the singularity's area, it wouldn't decrease the ability of other players to escape it but would keep the other debuffs consistent in PvE.
    • Meteor: This is supposed to be another of the nuke skills for the SW, yet it falls short when compared to destruction, I'd make the damage even, 500%, and for the 5 point talent, I'd either increase the burn damage to make it comparable to the total damage output of destruction after factoring the burn, or I'd change it for a similar increased skill damage buff.
    • Mind control: Before I move onto the last experience tree skill, if by any chance you're going to fix the "astral phenomenon" from working on immune targets, you better add something different to that talent similar to Grimmag's debuff, something like..., "when casted on an immune target, said target will get debuff X", debuff X could be decreased damage, decreased crit or something DPS related, otherwise it becomes one of the few mostly useless skills/talents on boss fights.
    • Frozen Sphere: After all the buffs and changes, the uber increased range was not quite necessary, just increasing it by 1.5x would've been enough on my personal opinion.
    The group talent breakdown will come whenever I find another bit of time, thanks.
    Last edited: May 4, 2018
    Dragonnns and Jhinstalock like this.
  5. KubQn

    KubQn Forum Apprentice

    Since it's STABLEBUILD and it's all about suggestions if something will be too op it won't go live anyway (well I hope xD),
    Here are my suggestions to test if it will make SW decent/op or w/e:
    Would be cool if,

    Thunder will get a little bit more boost (compared to frozen sphere it's again in favour of Q7 set)
    or what would be even better... Buff Q4 Set from 50% dmg to X%dmg or... make that 50% work on everything and by that I mean that 75% dmg from 2/2 set, and that 100% from new 5 talent point.

    Right now Q4 Thunder deal (tested on stablebuild char with 400 less dmg on Q4, but 10% more crit dmg)~~38k // Thunder with Q7 activated ~~54k (I know that it should be lower since you need to acivate Q7 and mostly u can't have it pernamently, but Q7 also buff your's every other spell (since it's +% global dmg) including missles so make that gap a bit lower.

    Q8 set/ice bolt on bosses: I think that it may be too strong if Q8 set would work the same on bosses as on mobs, but doing nothing w/o it is even worse (as a Q8 u lose 22% dmg/11% AS /10% crit from Karra set's and magic missle is just better). While fighting boss or while attacking target immune to frost make Q8 set x2 weaker. (That would make 10% less damage than magic missle but "2,5" more mana gain (for 2 spells not gloablly) per using 'single' x3 sigri bolt).
    Or something like that... If you do that we will know if it's too op and need nerfs or if it's still too weak.

    Guardian - since mage is full glasscannon glass w/o defense I suggest to make that spell stack from your dmg and that means the more dmg you have, the more resistances/hp guardian have.
    For example: At 30k dmg Guardian will be able to survive 3 boss hits on inf3 / 25k dmg 2 hits and so on. He won't taunt bosses anyway but atleast he will easily tank maps/do some bonus dmg on bossfights.

    Destruction: It cost too much to what it offers. I mean for 100 mana and the time you're going to cast it, if your AS is decent you will do x2 more dmg that during casting it... That make's this spell useless.

    Meteor: Right now it's only for Q7 set user's and now maybe it will be used to activate that 'magma shield' on boss fights. I won't buff it tho or would be careful with it, because with mind control you can cast 3 of them since it doesn't have that useless animation like destruction and buffing it could make it too strong tbh.

    Chain Lightning: Is anybody using it? I mean on live server I sometimes do to electrify foe again, but thanks to new 5 point talent it will have totally no use. No idea what to do with it, increasing number of targets? Or like they said above: Buff 1st target dmg and make it decrease with every other target it gets.

    Frozen sphere: After buffs it's good as it is. For me actually FS>Thunder everywhere atm, Thunder is too hard to hit and do it even deals that more dmg now? (For me gap in dmg is too small, since it's cost 10 less on boss, a lot less on maps, and now is not hard to hit with it compare to Thunder).
  6. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Forum Pro

    Sigris' set can be easily fixed. Here's how I'd do it:

    Sigrismar's Eternal Ward

    Change: Stacks cap increased to 30 (from 5).
    Change: Mana reduction per stack changed to 1 (from 6).
    New: 2 stacks per enemy hit / 6 stacks per enemy covered in frost hit.
    These changes still favors using sigris' set vs enemies that can be covered in frost but improves its usability vs bosses. One ice missile cast on boss would reduce cost only for 6. To achieve full mana reduction you'd need to hit boss 5 times instead of just 2.

    These changes should be implemented only if frost effect on bosses would be game breaking which I think is not. Otherwise please just let frost affect bosses.
    It's not fair that SW's frost isn't working on bosses unlike mark - either both should slow and reduce attack speed (not to mention being properly applied cough frost cough) or none.

    And please fix ice missile 3pts talent when using sigris' set. Atm cdr (cooldown reduction) triggers only for main missile ignoring 2 following missiles.
  7. heror

    heror Forum Baron

    Okay here are my toughts:

    Lightning: take the buff of dmg you did on the frozen sphere ( keep the range tho ) and put dmg increase on q4 set or thunder instead.
    A slow spell with delay should hit really hard.
    Meteorite its ok dmg wise just the mana can go to 90 from 100
    Dsetruction, its interesting since it depends on crit, because if it doesnt crit its a waste of time . I would say Increase the cast time ( yes i said it dont kill me ) but increase the dmg from 750 to 900 or 1000 i dont know , so taht it is actually woth the time .

    Frozen sphere: just make it from 350 dmg explosion from the 5 ponts talent , make it 300 and give these 50 dmg that are left to lightning thats it .
    Ice missle : i dont have an idea which makes this set balanced if it proccble on bosses.
    Magic missle, remove the 5 points talent, its useless on higher tiers, either monsters oneshot you or you dont die , thus making it useless, ]
    Guardian: unlike the people above ill say the completely opposite, make the guardian a damaging skill. The flame guardian update should deal more dmg. I mean we mages already started using mind control on inf3 and now we can put it to deal support dmg to the boss, making SW desired for a group , he is the glasscannon afterall.
    Teleport: its okay as it is.
    Singularity change the 2 points talent to either cost 0 mana( from 25 ) or make it so that it heals the mage for 5% of the dmg he is dealing while in it( may be op i dont know )
    Chain lighting : the same as the people above me said

    Conclusion dont give hp to the mage or any kind of defence, we should chose how to play depending on our playstyles. Instead make SW to be worth the idea of him being the powerhouse of the game and make him deal dmg like he should be. When you enter the boss arena you should be throwing spells all around the place teleporting to refresh the mana and continue.
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  8. Shirako

    Shirako Forum Greenhorn

    • Firstly I would like to improve Lightning strike. In the new patch, the Frozen sphere is much better than now (Im really satisfied with that change). For q7 set users it is good. But Lightning strike? 100% more dmg is nice, but you have to wait 3s for dmg of that skill, which costs 5 points of talents. It is nice, but useless for fast farm. I would like to decrease the time from 3s to 1s-1,5s. Secondly I would like to decrease cooldown between individually Lightning strike. If you have higher speed, you have to wait for another Lightning strike. It is uncomfortably and useless. May could be good increase dmg of Lightning strike about 50%, 60%, 70/? But im not sure about that.
    Because many players who use q4 set right now, will change set to q7. And another set will be useless when you dont change it.

    • Ice sphere doesnt work very well with stairs. Also has problem with small obstacles and inequality where doesnt work at all.
  9. sargon234

    sargon234 Commander of the Forum

    The frost bonus for the ice missile needs to work on bosses, so the sigrismarr armor bonus can work

    It should work like hunting arrow for ranger
  10. cdeepal

    cdeepal Forum Baron

    UPDATED to reflect only PvE advantages

    Magic missile

    5 Point talent should heal the player for every Critical Hit that they strike on a Boss or a Mini Boss by 1% of the players total health points (not base).

    This is quite useless in PvE. So, my suggestion is to have the wisdom 5 point talent to be as:

    10% Damage Times Number of Creatures hit (to a maximum of 70% Damage) per second for a total duration of 6 seconds (maximum DOT = 420% damage over 6 seconds).

    NOTE: The DOT shouldn't stack with consecutive hits, so this wouldn't make spamming fireballs an issue. The more creatures You hit, the more effective it will be and thus reducing the use in PvP to gain an unfair advantage.

    Chain Lightning
    Need a bit more damage in PvE.
    Here is the suggestion:
    Each additional creature hit increases the damage by 50% more.
    First hit is 44% (with 2 point talent), second hit to the next creature would be 66%, and the third hit to the next creature would be 99%.

    When you consider the time it takes to cast this and the cool down time, this is not very useful.

    I would make the 5 point talent as follows:
    After 2 seconds upon impact, the Meteor will do an additional 400% Damage, followed by 75% More damage for each second for the next three seconds. For a total of 400% initial, 400% after 2 seconds, 225% DOT = 1025%

    Other spells are as good as they are.

    P.S. Thanks Struble for pointing my mistakes of assuming now the skill talent points cannot be used in PvP. I have adjusted above to rectify this error.
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
  11. Struble

    Struble Board Analyst

    I think you are confusing Wisdom with the actual skill talents, the 2,3 and 5 points you can give are 'talent' points and not wisdom thus will -what you said- be used in PvP, just saying tho :p. But nice idea tho

    Same with fireball by the way, talent points = also PvP.
    heror likes this.
  12. KubQn

    KubQn Forum Apprentice


    Agree and disagree with that. Agree that everyone will use only it when it goes live as it is. That's why I'm with the buffing thunder a bit in the cost of sphere dmg. And disagree because having sphere same as on live server it is actually high danger - low reward skill. Right now we can atleast aim with it easier.

    Tho if they will leave sphere with too low damage SW will again have the problem with skill using on 'solo play' (saying about bosses). Well DSO can design SW as a weak Solo player and strong group player, but then again... Thunder will need to be buffed.
    That's my opinion atleast.
    Last edited by moderator: Apr 19, 2018
  13. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Forum Pro

    I have to agree with Moot.

    Frozen sphere was meant to be a high danger - high reward skill. Its low range was a cost of high damage and mana regen (meanwhile cough explosive arrow cough). Now sphere is low danger - high reward skill. Pretty much fireball range, 350% base damage ratio, mana regen. Why would anybody use anything other than frozen sphere now?

    My suggestions are as follows:

    - Revert Meteor changes. Add pre r155 huge aoe explosion back to the 5pts talent. It was one of choices in old skill tree (you could pick this or upgraded Destruction). Now Meteor serve purely as q7 bonus activator.
    - Revert Destruction changes from test server. 100 mana cost shouldnt be a thing. 100 mana is 100% mana pool of some spellweavers. Destruction is already an unpopular pick since majority of players is using q7 set and there's not enough space to use both Meteor and Destruction at the same time.
    - Make q4 set an alternative. Atm q4 it nowhere as powerfull as q7 set. As spellweaver q7 bonus uptime is almost 100% in fights if you dont mess up your combo. Either q4 set should be tweaked to reach dmg output potential of q7 set or q7 set should be nerfed.
    - Please keep lightning strike stun. 2pts talent of lightning strike was always considered strange since lightning strike was 50 mana before r155 (changed to 60 and 2pts talent is 10 mana less). I suggest switching talents as follows: 2pts 33% quicker strike, 3pts stun, 5pts aoe damage from test server. Give lightning strike some love, it was and still is feeling underwhelming in comparison to even pre change frozen sphere.
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
  14. -HARRA81-

    -HARRA81- Forum Mogul

    Magic Missile:
    2pts Regenerate 5 mana per hit
    3pts Increased Magic Missile damage +50% (+5% from original)
    5pts Change damage to Andermagic damage
    - Further more increases the SW efficiency in boss fights
    -While other classes can do same elemental damage there should be something unique for SW
    -Healing in the Magic Missile is useless you rarely finish off mobs with the skill atleast in the end game.

    Fire Ball:
    2pts increased damage by 15%
    3pts 2seconds area of effective DoT burn
    5pts Change area of effective DoT burn to 6 seconds (doesn't accumulate to 8 seconds)
    -While the Fire Ball is pretty much not needed in PVE currently it would allow more interesting and complex game play for SW and let the SW be a truly master of all elements Fire, Ice and Lightning!(And maybe Ander magic :p)
    -In the boss fights the Area Burn could serve a long DoT and further more increase the boss efficience of SW

    Frost Nova:
    2pts Stun removal
    3pts deals 100% damage of the skill and stun increased to 3 seconds (1,3 PvP)
    5pts Charges the enemies with frost effect for 3 seconds (1,3pvp) Enemies with frost
    takes +25% more damage from ice related skills.

    2pts Increases your movement speed by 25% for 2seconds instead of 1.
    3pts and 5 pts no changes

    2pts Reduces the mana cost to 40
    3pts Increases the damage by 35%
    5pts Changes the damage to the Ander Magic damage
    I feel that 100mana is too much for this skill to be "any good". You can deal more damage with 2 lightning strike. Either increase the skill damage or reduce mana cost. Cooldown could be also longer if the damage was risen.

    2pts Reduces the mana cost to 25
    3pts Enemies in the area will be silenced! Enemies can not use skill inside the area (like the Mortis courtroom debuffs) maybe the original armor break would be too powerfull, it could be slightly adjusted for PvP.
    5pts old Synchromnity talent for skill cooldowns.

    Frozen Sphere and Lightning Strike. I think that the Frozen sphere damage could be reduces slightly and increased the lightning strike damage maybe like 25% off from the Frozen sphere and increase Lightning strike +125% instead of 100%. Make the Q4 more better against the Q7
  15. Frostarch

    Frostarch Junior Expert

    Simple change to ice missile, if it hits a target that's immune to frost, make it do full remaining damage to it and NOT pass through it.

    Basically don't gimp ice missile's damage just because you don't want it to slow down bosses.

    Frost nova could push bosses away.

    Maybe dumb
  16. potre

    potre Forum Greenhorn

    hi and sorry for the bad english in advance.
    First of all i disagree to nerf frozen sphaire in favor o f lighting strike. The q4 set it works as q7 set for rangers, you can use only lighting strike as rangers attack only with explosive arrow. On the other hand mages with q7 set can have a more creative game as it allowed to use more attacks and to make combos for the best result and the same time combos to reset the buff. One more reason to disagree for nerfing frozen sphaire is because is the only high damage skill to attack bosses when they are in move.
    One other problem is that mages they dont have an armor brake for bosses and the same time the only armor brake skill for mobs is working the same time and as cd(black hole). i think that lighting strike and frozen sphaire must have an armor brake effect or at least one of them, i preffer frozen sphaire because as i said and before it s the only skill to attack in movement bosses.
    I agree that ice missiles must maintain the frozen effects on bosses.
    i dont like the change of the 50mana reduced choice in destruction, it becomes more unplayable.Adittionaly i think that the cast time must reduced.
    Maybe we can have in one of our attaks a cd reduction per hit or critical hit, i don t know in witch.
    i think a big problem with mage is that more skills is usable in statick situations.The lighting strike and meteor is usable when the boss stop to move. The cool reduction in black hole required to stay in black hole and to not move
    • New posts
    • 1. destruction: give back the 50 mana reduction talent, reduce the cast time to half, reduce the cooldown to 45 minutes
    • 2. lighting strike: make it to have brake armor
    • 3. ice sphaire: increase the pace
    • 4. meteor: reduce the cooldown to 45 minutes, buff a litle bit the damage
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2018
  17. Mal3ficent

    Mal3ficent Guest

    What we need in this feedback thread:
    What we do not need:
    Please just name the skills you think should be reworked and tell us how would you like to be changed.
    Avoid quoting other posts and getting into debate. This thread is not for debate, you can do that in almost any other forum thread.
    Do not get into conversation with other players even if you think their proposal is not acceptable or unreasonable. Just because you cannot point out the flaws of someone's proposal, that does not mean their proposal would be accepted and implemented in the game.
    Let other players express their thoughts and opinions.

    babu_o_babu likes this.
  18. ono122

    ono122 Forum Greenhorn

    • Increased base damage of Magic Missile from 70% to 80%
    • Increased base damage of Fireball from 110% to 120%
    • Increased base damage of Ice Missile from 40% to 50%
    • Increased base damage of Frost Nova from 80% to 100%
    These spells were good enought before you upgrade them, I am only asking myself why there isn't Chain Lightning (one of the most useless skill in pve because it is too slow) Sets like Q7,Q8 get really solid buff because debuffs now can be applied on bosses too so using skills with frozen debuff will be more powerfull (Frozen Sphere 266% => 350%), but what about Q4 set, ok we get
    lightning explosion (still not very good, this need buff in damage 100% => 150%, and in time that takes to explode
    (3sec => 2sec)) but thats all.

    Chain Lightning need's to get really good buff in damage and in experience talents (5 points)
    15% Chance to stun isn't really good this need to be changed like in Lightning strike
    Shirako and Razvam like this.
  19. Fugnuts

    Fugnuts Forum Master

    I would change few of them skills:

    Destruction: - it has to be reworked definitely...the animation takes too long and it makes it really hard to hit something with it or it gets you killed by the time u shot it.Lower the animation time, maybe lower the dmg if its considered too OP.

    Singularity: Enemies in the area will be silenced! Enemies can not use skill inside the area (like the Mortis courtroom debuffs) maybe the original armor break would be too powerfull, it could be slightly adjusted for PvP. This is Harra's idea and i was thinking at the same thing for this skill.Right now is so easy to dodge and escape from it that makes this skill almost useless in PvP.

    Teleport: Add a regeneration to it...something like x% hp over x seconds everytime this skill is used.
  20. fab

    fab Advanced

    Spellweaver skills like

    Magical missile should be hitting at either 150% without talent and 200% with talent.
    Mysterious charge is ok at the moment and connected lives should heal about 1-2% hp with successful crit hit.

    Ice missile should deal more like 55% rather than 30%, biting frost talent should slightly increased a little to about 5% making it 30%.

    Fireballs should at least dealing with 175% with maximum damage without talent and 225% with talent, after burn should last about 5 secs rather than 3 secs which is really short since the after effect from pyromania can be deactivated.

    Frozen sphere should be traveling at a faster pace and range like rangers EA and explode when comes in contact with enemies or in PVP.
    Damage for the skill should be around 265% without talent and around 330% with talent.

    Singularity skill should disable enemies skills or players skills when inside the
    vortex, reducing armor and resistance up to 85% without talent and 95% with talent.

    Chain lightning should be increased up to 125% without talent and with talent ( 150% )
    electrified foes should deal 30% more damage.

    Teleport cooldown should be 5 secs since its the only escape skill a spellweaver has.

    Lightning strike is ok if it is dealing with spellweaver maximum damage, impact time should be immediately since it is predictable on those grounds.

    Lastly for meteor and destruction ( 500%) and should be hitting at maximum damage and 90% on crit
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