Feedback Dwarf upcoming nerf

ΣMiwel · Jul 29, 2017

I am making this thread mainly to make a simple poll about the nerf of dwarf that has come to test server and is described in this thread.
Whole truth about the situation:

AbradolfLincler said: ↑

I'm going to try to say what i want to say without getting banned from the forums here. so let's just begin.

Those of you happy to see other classes nerfed are fools. you probably compare yourself to other classes with sets, crafted gear and much more skill than you do. you're happy to see someone else fall while thinking your class isn't going to get royally messed up too? get better gear. learn to craft. your char probably just sucks and no one wants you in a party. sm is not as easy class to play. i didn't laugh when rangers got their nerf. i didn't smile. i didn't rejoice. i fought for them. being happy other classes get nerfed is like celebrating a car crash. you're a fool.

Now, as a dwarf, let's go over some realistic things here. our main skills for damage do not crit. dwarf are all about turrets and they don't crit at all. we have 3 usable skills that do. quickshot (normal attack), heavyshot (3 second cooldown) and shrapnel shot (1 min cooldown). shrapnel shot has very low damage capabilities, but it's a nice little AoE skill. heavyshot is nice during herald buff, but pretty much just a skill to kill something on the last of its hp. all skills we use often, but it's not like heavyshot and shrapnel shot are readily available when we want them.

mechanical turrets are for pvp and only used in pve to cooldown herald set. tesla is awfully weak and if your dk friends want you to use it, they simply need to get better. the dk i play with couldn't care less if i used tesla or not. we all just want the boss dead. dk have plenty of abilities to remove stuns, freeze etc. if you stand in front of herald and tank like you're paralyzed...you're gonna have a bad time. back to sm skills here. iron dwarf...sure, you can keep it as long as you are killing monsters to get a 1.5 second buff for each monster killed. not going to happen in fatal or infernal. that skill is useless in pve. rockets break armor and stun mobs/mini bosses/proc herald buff. they're slow. almost every class in pvp just avoids that snail speed rocket as it meanders on its way to blow up alone. tactical turrets are to boost run speed and get back steam. great for steams with low attack speed to be able to keep other turrets up and active. steams with high speed have almost zero use for them outside pvp. dwarf in the box lasts a whopping 3 seconds while other class gets 10 seconds of taunt on their skill or at least they can summon wolves or tree-man-dude-guy to kind of get in the way of things. oil slick, bombs, and steam conductor are completely useless.

Taking speed away from machine gun damage seems to be the most destructive thing you could do to a class that doesn't have skills that crit. sm have 2 ways to become stronger for damage: base damage and attack speed for our machine guns. sm literally have ONE main damage skill and that's machine guns. mechanical turrets don't deal ANY damage to a boss as far as total hp goes. tesla barely deals the more damge than our normal attacks and at an incredibly slow rate of attack. bosses often walk right out of turrets and we have to set up new ones WHILE being able to keep up mechanical turrets for cooldown of our herald set so we can continue to do our part hacking away at the bosses massive hp. the videos you see online are of the TOP of the TOP. so you are seeing some test server sm destroy bosses VERY quickly in order to help with feedback, results, and possibilities of a class. that doesn't mean EVERY sm solos lvl 4 bosses in sheer moments. that means that with perfect crafts, amazing uniques, and amazing gems that it CAN be done. everyone says that sm are best or second best damage dealers. you're correct in the fact that machine guns deal damage to whatever is in their path, but it's not like we're hitting every monster in that pack for 500k each second or some crazy number you have in your head. sm's job is to wound packs so the crit classes can use their set of skills and hopefully pick off the mobs the sm have hopefully made to 50-60% less hp as the sw and rangers work through and into that mob as a team. that's our job as sm...well and also to give an added armor break so those mini bosses just melt away. now as far as boss fights go, sm are on the bottom of the list as far as solo or group damage goes. i'm not talking OP sw and ranger vs poor lil sm who just got lvl 55 yesterday. i'm talking my 20k damage at 2.51 speed with other 20k damage classes with +2.00 speed together as a team. if we could SEE a "damage dealt" chart at the end of the boss battle between 2h dk, sw, ranger and sm. even with a tank as the beast to keep the boss in place for sm. i freaking assure you SM would be at the bottom. yes, we DO deal constant steady damage, but we don't have the same explosive power of crits from set buffs. don't get me wrong, i'm not complaining. i love my class, but we're not the crazy OP damagers people think we are. yes, there are classes that kill SUPER fast on youtube. surprise! they paid a hell of a lot to get there and hours and hours of crafting fails. don't complain about it saying "awww my class can't do that". yes they can. just in different margins of difficulty and items needed.

I TOTALLY agree with the folks in this thread and others who say we should all be recommending bonuses or skill changes etc to our OWN classes. not crying that you feel blahblah class is stronger than yours. SW RUN pvp. everyone knows that. they need a boost in pve. sure. that's fine, but it won't happen. enjoy your nerf too.

Destructible turrets. Cool. fine. whatever. we'll get used to it. we'll have to be more careful where we place them. a certain amount of hits to kill it as iNeXoRaBlE said is a waste. 1 sigris set sw and that's done. also, most classes have such fast attack speed it would take 1.2 seconds MAX to kill one of our little baby turrets do a whole 5k damage IF they happen to hit someone...and thats on my almost 22k damage in pvp...and that number drops fast with heavily armored toons. sm have a hard enough time getting those damned wolves off us or the guardian from sw. if you look at pvp damage scores at the end of 5v5 or 6v6...you'll find little sm's down way at the bottom with 500k damage while the sw, rangers and 2h dk are resting at the top with +2m damage. make it so our turrets, our only damaging skill, can be destroyed and you'll find us sitting less than 200k damage in pvp fights. as far as boss fights, mechanical turrets are the only ones we can choose where they get dropped. so we'd just have to adjust them near us to get that little boost of damage, but what happens when we stand still at boss fights? the bosses drop their elemental bomb...RIP our turrets each time. sure, we can drop them and move like we do, but we're already low on steam from keeping up 4 of them at once. maybe give us a skill to repair them during battles, but don't make them so fragile that everything just farts on them and they get destroyed.

Also, these skill animations...why do ALL 3 other classes get faster animations on their most deadly/powerful skills for pvp and pve and sm get faster bombs?!?!??!??! who the #$%@ uses bombs? not even NEW players use bombs. what the hell kind of joke is this?! 6 faster skills animations for sw, 6 for rangers, 6 for dk, and TWO for sm?! ONE of them no one has ever used in the history of DSO! not to mention the fact that the other classes' motion unlock frame rate has been HALVED or MORE! SM go from 5 to 6! so c'mon BP.

If BP is going to change Steam Mechanicus to be better adjust to the other classes. Let's discuss crit possibilities here. I DO have an issue with it, but i'd be willing to give it a shot MUCH more than this current testing of what's going on. Obviously, we'd have to reduce machine gun damage right off the bat. they hit 3 times per second each. so add two turrets...6 times a second. 60 times in 10 seconds. if left alone with a BASIC 50% hi rate and 3.50 hit damage which is quite easy to reach...that would mean absolutely insane damage output because all we would have to do is add a different helm, make some different rings, maybe use a little different gear and that's not going to be fair. we'd outdamage classes by liek 300%. that's no a good adjustment. IF and IF crit was introduced to sm, those sapphire to onyx converted would HAVE to be brought back and most sm don't bother to keep onyx. any sm to start AFTER lvl 55 expansion don't have another choice, so they probably have a few in the adornment or they toss them and add rubies. sm would be SO far behind in crit chance though, so we'd have to find a way to work that out with the gems we were able to keep. but, since mechanical turrets are our main pvp turret at only 50% damage, those would only need a minor reduction as we can have two of them and their fire rate is slow. it's virtually our main pvp skill aside from normal attack and defense turrets to move and get steam back. even with crits mechanical turrets would do MINOR damage in pve compared to our couple of other usable skills. if we were able to crit, i'm not sure of the answer for iron dwarf. it would be usable again, but could become too OP since for 12 seconds we can't be stunned and we get crazy armor and resists. SM going into a crit class like the rest would be a more difficult adjustment for the DSO team. I think it would be hard to figure out potential end class builds as players are usually ahead of teams when finding that extra little bit of damage/crit etc.

if infernal II is coming, and new bosses and more additions to the game, i think it's better to make MINOR adjustments to classes rather than try to rebuild a class years later. don't nerf us, give us harder bosses to fight. make some kind of crazy PW arena where you have to fight ALL 8 bosses one by one to get the reward chest. push us to our limits with gameplay...not to our limits with frustration of losing our best skills class by class.

all in all, i feel it would be a better change to work on some sort of crit designs (give us a HEADS UP to start REALLY collecting onyx, give us some idea of which skills would become our new best friend) than making our turrets made out of paper, taking away our machine gun speed mechanics which is our ONLY method of doing pve damage. these changes aren't a balancing. balancing would be taking the 4 classes, adding PRETTY darn equal gear, gems, uniques etc and calculating different damage amounts from beginner to top tier gears and gems. the only exception would be tanks. their job is hard enough in tank mode. so you'd have to be careful not to mess up tanking skills when adjusting...and i mean ADJUSTING skills little by little until each classes strengths, flaws and such maybe more in balance. i understand that someone with class blahblah will always complain class blahblah is stronger. that's because that's how people work...and it sucks. if BP was able to build, demonstrate and release damage outputs of said different tiered and geared possibilities without TELLING how to build each char perfectly, maybe those that feel robbed in their classes would be able to look and say "dang, i could achieve that. i see it now". instead, they see these crazy videos of said classes REALLY kicking butts and they feel weak.

i wish i had the patience to work out some math etc, but frankly, i'm a tad frustrated as all the other sm's are and i'm not sure my equations would be perfect as i get a little lost in some of the mechanics because...well...i'm lazy.

if anyone has made it this far, you're a trooper. let's keep this thread to recommendations and feedback. not just saying "well, i'm quitting now. RIP dso!". let's give advice about our class and see if we can't figure out some middle ground here...and next class to have "balancing" can try the same until BP starts to realize it's players ACTUALLY have some good points. especially those long term players who have a TON of knowledge. if this entire nerfing process continues, infernal II will be impossible without money...and BP...that's not how you make money. no one wants to spend money out of frustration.

all classes should be sticking together on these matters.

Rant over.

yours truly,

Mr. Abradolflincler, the flirty little green SM who doesn't want his class to die.

EDIT: also, i never see OP players crying about other classes. what does that tell you? GIT GUD!!! stop sucking at your class.
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Sunlight · Jul 29, 2017

Hey there,

We are aware of the situation and we are reading your opinions in the feedback thread.
This is not the right section. We have a specific thread where every player can express his/her thoughts.
Respectfully, I am closing this thread.

Feedback Dwarf upcoming nerf

Do you want the brutal dwarf nerf to come as it is in the test server?

Yes

No

ΣMiwel Forum Ambassador

Sunlight User