Is this values good enough?

Discussion in 'Steam Mechanicus' started by Mozart, Mar 3, 2019.

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  1. Mozart

    Mozart Forum Greenhorn

    Hello everyone, I carfted item shown as below. I am not sure is it ok enough. Because there is 3 increace damage on this item and 1 global increase damage. Please share your idea with me.
  2. Shine2

    Shine2 Board Administrator Team Drakensang Online

    Hello... do I see correctly? yes! :) it is Mozart :) What a great name! Welcome to DSO EN Forums! We hope you have a really fantastic time in here:)

  3. Mozart

    Mozart Forum Greenhorn

  4. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Long story short, a pure %IDotI item with stats of similar relative strength will be better, but that item is still incredibly powerful. It will take good care of you while you craft a comparable weapon with only %IDotI. Just be glad that this item didn't get ruined by a %Crit Damage line.
    TwiliShadow likes this.
  5. Novadude

    Novadude Commander of the Forum

    Short answer : yes, it is good enough.

    Long answer : it depends on what you currently have for a 2H gun. If you currently had a 3x gold 2H with 222% idoti and a 4th line like 35% crit damage, I would go ahead and pristine craft your new legendary onto your unique of choice (most likely the Herald 2H).

    If, however, you had something like 4x lines of say 280 idoti% or higher, I would think about reserving this to be used in crafting a 4x supergold/platinum 2H gun with 330% idoti% or higher
  6. Mozart

    Mozart Forum Greenhorn

    Thanks your answers @Novadude and @_Baragain_ .
    I do some math. I will explain it.
    My 2H gun total damage with Gems
    = 1213 + (90*5) = 1658
    if I have full %idoti exp. 340 -- 1658 * 340 / 100 = 5.637 total DMG on weapon
    If u have values which on phot 254 idoti% and 69 %id 1658 * 254 /100 = 4.211 -- 4.211 * 169/100 = 7.116 total DMG on weapon only

    Bonus %69 %id increases all other damages on the items.

    Am I wrong? Where is my mistake.
  7. Novadude

    Novadude Commander of the Forum

    The area I bolded is where your mistake is located. The 69%id should not be looked at as "on the weapon only". For game math purposes it gets added together on the same line as all your other %id sources, such as wisdom talents, gear, essences, buffs and pets. As you probably will have a bunch of id% at the endgame, you are usually better off pumping up that idoti% number as that is basically multiplied against all the id%.
  8. Mozart

    Mozart Forum Greenhorn

    I understand you. But bold text mean %69 %id more efective than extra %85~ %idoti (even on weapon), below of this line I sayed Bonus %69 %id increases all other damages on the items. @Novadude . As a result Is one %id three %idoti more efective than four %idoti. Sorry for my english.
  9. TwiliShadow

    TwiliShadow Count Count

    You have two math errors as I see it. Just like you put 100% + 69% to get the "169/100" you also have to do the same to both the 340 and 254 numbers. Thus:
    • 1658 * 4.40 = 7295.2 dmg (twd)
    • 1658 * 3.54 = 5869.32 dmg (twd) -> "" * 1.69 = 9919.15 dmg

    Now here is the real problem with your math. Your not including all the other items you have with damage (goes with total weapon damage) and all the other %dam increases (adds to the 1.69). If you character is built right, the 69% is very small complared to all the rest. Once you add all the other items, the end numbers end up swapping and you get better "final" numbers out of the %idoti of 4.40 than you do with the 3.54/1.69 combo. It has to do with dilution. :)

    I had a 3x %idoti / 1x %d build that I replaced with a 4x %idoti and I got some 4k increase overall.

    There are lots and lots of posts between _Baragain_ and I on these numbers. So much so that I built a spreadsheet so that I could complare multiple scenarios of different values. (sadly I've no updated it since before the Dec mass change).
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
  10. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Well, here it comes... Relevant thread.

    Long story short, with no essence or low essence, a %ID line can result in higher damage, but once you start using higher essences, the %IDotI weapon always outperforms the mixed weapon. As was explained, this is because all sources of % Increased Damage is calculated in the same step, so the more %Damage you have from gear, the more diluted the essence becomes. On belts/torsos/helmets, there are no better offensive stats than %ID, so you pick it because it is the only logical choice. On the wisdom tree, you pick %ID because you want to maximize your DPS... but on your weapon, where you have a choice of %ID vs %IDotI, %IDotI will always win in the end.

    You may argue that you spend most of your time using white or green essence, so the higher damage with white/green that you may get with a mixed weapon is a good thing, but consider this: Which essences are the hardest/most expensive to get, and where do you use those essences? That's right, Blue/Purple/Red essence is expensive, rare, and hard to get, and you generally use those essences against the hardest bosses. Do you really want lower damage against a boss, forcing you to use more essence or take longer time? Or do you want the slightly lower damage against mobs that are already easily killed (at the damages we are discussing), but you kill the challenging bosses easier?

    Rereading the post I linked, here is another way to phrase the paragraph above:
    Wow... that thread is over a year old, but still useful and relevant… I was dead on when I opened the thread by saying "I've seen this pop up a lot recently and figured it was time to write the definitive explanation to this question to save me time down the line."

    EDIT 2:
    If you are concerned about if my analysis is still accurate after R214, it is, but don't expect me to run all the numbers to validate it... The platinum lines simply expand the upper limit of each enchantment by 20%, so since both the %ID and %IDotI went up together by the same 1.2x multiplier, but blue/purple/red essences stayed the same, these numbers are more true than ever. Basically there is more %Damage from gear (and weapons) than ever, further diluting the essence. For example, my original estimate used 3x 39% items (torso/belt/helmet), but now that could easily be 3x44% items for an extra 15% damage from gear. In fact, between the more dilution and the new white/green essence, it is totally possible that the 3/1 and lower cases may be totally useless in today's meta, but I can 100% guarantee that with blue/purple/reds, a 4x platinum %IDotI weapon will be better than any other weapon.
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
  11. OrochimaruSama

    OrochimaruSama Someday Author

    And do not forget the reduce of the damage added by the buff q7,if you use it
  12. Mozart

    Mozart Forum Greenhorn

    Thank you so much all of you guys, specially @TwiliShadow and @_Baragain_ . I already crafted this item on my 2H :(. I am not happy for this but I can not do anything about it. Thank you again.
  13. TwiliShadow

    TwiliShadow Count Count

    Trust me it is ok that you already crafted it.

    I did just the same, and because of that two weeks later I had a much better 4x %idoti than I would have had a kept crafting with the 3/1 combo. (It's where the picked lines came from and what would have been in the ingredient places that wouldn't have worked.)
    And since then, I've crafted an even better 4 gold %idoti over the first 4 gold %idoti.

    The point is, when something you have makes you stronger (by more than a smidgen), go ahead and use it. Being stronger always helps you farm for better items to make you even stronger. ;)
  14. Novadude

    Novadude Commander of the Forum

    It's not a bad idea to craft this unless you did something like replace a strong 4x idoti% weapon. Its worth making incremental improvements as they enable faster farming of the endgame gear components, and your 3x/1x is stronger than my 4x on my DK (which is only at 249% idoti). If I got what you posted, i would craft it on my DK's herald 2H.

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