"Lottery" Trade House

Discussion in 'General Archive' started by Scythe, Jun 12, 2016.

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  1. Scythe

    Scythe Someday Author

    I've seen the topic of 1-to-1 trading between players come up quite a bit and it's definitely a no from the community and the DSO team (for very good reasons).

    However, what would you guys think about a "lottery" trade house?
    1. Players find a good item (+30% dmg torso) or their 10th Predator, but since it messes with their set, they can't use it. So instead of having their only option be to melt it, what if they could put it up for sale?
    2. They go to the NPC vendor and put it up for 1000 gold/drakens (no anders!).
    3. The item will be up for bid for 24 hours, during which other players of the same class can bid on it, but they won't get it yet.
    4. After 24 hours, the item only goes to one random buyer for 1000 gold/drakens.
    Hence, the "lottery" trade house.

    A few notes:
    • Lvl 50 only. No twinking please.
    • No anders! As Baragain pointed out, this allows new-account abuse. Maybe even drakens only.
    • This prevents 1-to-1 direct trades or immediate purchases, which might be a good thing and prevent possible abuses. All players will have an equal chance of getting an item on sale, even if they log on later.
    • This might incentivize both well-equipped players and trying-but-can't-seem-to-get-drops players to farm. Right now, the well-equipped players have to melt or hoard a lot of great equipment simply because it doesn't fit their build. What if they could trade with others players (in a non-favoristic manner) who could actually benefit from the items for some extra gold/drakens to gamble or buy a new Gnob mount? This incentivizes well-equipped players to farm for nice equipment (that they don't necessarily have to use) and unfavored-by-lady-luck players to farm every single moon event for drakens.
    I personally would love buying/selling on a system like this. What do you guys think? Would there need to be any other restrictions as well?

    [​IMG]
     
    hempthegreen and KellueéHazé like this.
  2. chiuseer

    chiuseer Advanced

    That looks wonderful. I like that:)
     
  3. MANOJ

    MANOJ Forum Pro

    But I would be so pissed off if a player who I dislike wins the bid and takes away an item that I put on sale :D

    On a serious note, I like this idea.
    If the currency for such trade is drakens, I want them to offer some good stuff in exchange for drakens before such feature goes live. Stacking draken from such a trade and not spending them would be a failure.
     
  4. Zed

    Zed Forum Pro

    Nice idea. Still, where do the 1000 drakens go ? Are they earned by the seller or just disappear ?
     
  5. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    It's been a while since anyone dug up that archived post. I still believe that a Draken oriented auction house is the least likely to be exploited due to the amount of effort it takes to farm. I also said that it would make a brand new economy and give value to a dying currency.
    You are ignoring something important. If Draken were the only "trading currency," then it would have value beyond Gnob. I wouldn't care if any of Gnobs stuff was actually good enough to spend Draken on, I would spend my farmed and earned Draken on the auction house almost exclusively. I'd sell little items (like a ring with a 16.74% Crit damage line) for maybe as little as 10-20 draken (or whatever the emerging economy would describe as the "going price"). It has no use for me, but someone else could use it. Meanwhile, I'd try to buy items like belts with crit or crit damage of high enough quality lines. I'd stop looking at Gnob all together and focus on Player to Player transactions.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2016
  6. Scythe

    Scythe Someday Author

    Me too!

    Similarly, you could buy items from a player that doesn't like you! Karma! :) You could also spend drakens on other players' items I guess?

    How bout gold? Gold would be especially useful for crafting and gambling.
     
  7. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Yea, but P2Ps can already convert andermant into gold without even trying hard at the jesters. If we ever get some sort of trade, I want it to be something that is based more on how hard you farm than how much you spend.
     
  8. Zed

    Zed Forum Pro

    True, and draken is the only currency that can't be bought with real money.

    I like this idea as it gives every player one more occasion to get the items they want to have if they are unlucky with mobs.
    I think it should go like that :
    - Uniques : fixed prices for lvl 50, and the price decreases by 2% for each lvl (example : 1000 drakens for lv.50 Roshan's Circle, 980 for lv.49, 960 for lv.48, 941 for lv.47...)
    - Other items (legends, exos...) : the more the item enchants are near of the maximum values, the more they are worthy. Example : 1500 drakens for a legend with 4 max enchants - 375 for each enchant. If one of the enchant is 90% of the max value for example, the price decreases from 375-375*90%=37,5 draken (rounded up to 38).

    I hope it's not too complicated ^^
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2016
  9. Scythe

    Scythe Someday Author

    Of course they're earned by the seller! :)

    That's definitely why I'd dig a trading system like this.

    Well, if they're feeling generous about sharing some of that gold with me, I'll take it!
     
  10. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Not totally true. The lucky spheres from Gnob that are bought for andermant can give you Draken, but the "exchange rate" is so bad compared to gold that someone would have to be a millionaire to use it as a source of Draken income.

    Regarding your price idea, the issue is that it doesn't take into account the basics of economics like supply and demand or value beyond the stats. We already know that BP has no clue how to gauge good items. Just look at the CV system and you'll see godlike items with low CVs. If BP followed your automated price system, then there would be no developing economy, it would just be another flop of a feature. For example, by your idea, the Deep Sea set should sell for 900 draken, but I don't know anyone who would buy it for that price. I might sell it for 50-100, but over time, if the market got saturated with those items (due to how common they are), their value may drop down to as little as 10 a piece.
     
  11. Zed

    Zed Forum Pro

    By "fixed price for 1 unique" I meant "every unique has a fixed price". OF COURSE the Bearach's Untamed Scorn (q4) is not going to have the same price as the Norseland Robust Armor :D :D :D
     
  12. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Still, that has the problem of BigPoint being total noobs and having no clue what makes something valuable.

    Seen here is a pair of gloves with a very impressive amount of attack speed, but only a CV of 206.
    [​IMG]
    Now take a look at the Tier 1 Untouchables gloves:
    [​IMG]
    Do you really trust the developers who gave us the crappy CV system to determine what a "fair" selling price is for items and uniques?

    I don't.

    Only the players know the game that well. If the prices are set by players, then, given a couple weeks to a couple of months, an economy would emerge and people would buy and sell things based on what they think they are worth. For example. I bet that if something like this were put into the game, I could easily sell my axe for 30k+ draken. There would only be a few customers could even afford the price, but they would gladly give it up for my axe since there is nothing else for them to spend Draken on. On the other hand, in another year or so, when a larger percentage of the big name players have something comparable, then I'd probably only be able to sell something like that for 10k-15k.

    My point is this, the devs are clueless about how players think and I would never suggest something that would end up with me relying on their knowledge of the game and a players mind.
     
    hempthegreen likes this.
  13. Zed

    Zed Forum Pro

    Not at all. That's why I try to give some ideas. ;)

    The problem is. How are you going to create a fair system that lets players choose the price they want but that doesn't give them too much free space either ? Because even if I trust players and I'm sure that knowing the supply and demand market they will set fair prices to the items they'll sell, I don't think developers want to create a market that they won't be able to control. :/
     
  14. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Maybe the way they "control" the market is by imposing a tax of 10%-15%. That prevents the draken from just moving around the system without any decrease and the amount of currency in the system only growing. If they didn't do that, eventually the currency would be devalued. To control the market, they could adjust the tax within a certain range so that the amount of draken in the system doesn't get too out of control and to encourage spending at Gnob from time to time.
     
  15. Zed

    Zed Forum Pro

    Good idea. Speaking of the Gnob, I thought of that : can you decide of the prices of the uniques you bought at the Gnob if you want to sell them ? I think they should be sold at the same price (because the uniques are not sold 7d/7 but on rare occasions).
     
  16. Scythe

    Scythe Someday Author

    As much as I'd hate that personally, that's actually a very valid DSO-type idea (see: crafting). Perhaps the tax should be imposed up front; you need to pay 10% of your item's price to put something up for sale (e.g. 100 drakens if you're charging 1000 drakens), which will be refunded if no one buys your item after 24 hours. This might be another measure to keep prices reasonable (apart from the fact that if your price is too high, no one will buy it).

    I don't think anyone would want to sell Gnob uniques for less than what they got them for. But if they're feeling charitable about offering lower prices, why not? Everyone would get a chance at the discounted unique. :)
     
    Zed and _Baragain_ like this.
  17. Zed

    Zed Forum Pro

    I'm trying to adopt the developer's point of view. "Blahblah players selling their items for a lower price than what they bought them for ? no this is completely unacceptable. case closed." They don't know the word "charity". xD
     
  18. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    I have a LVL 45 Tear Holder. I couldn't justify spending 4k Draken for just a little more damage, so I kept it. If I could sell it for 3k Draken to a LVL 45 player, or a LVL 50 player who doesn't mind not having that little bit of extra damage, then I might be willing to buy the LVL 50 version for 4k (or 1k depending on how you want to look at it.) And this actually would benefit BigPoint because I'd be spending on their official shop. Too bad the devs wouldn't figure this out during the design phase... they're short sighted like that.

    But that just illustrates yet again why players should be able to set these things instead of the devs.
     
  19. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    More lottery?
    DSOBet.com?
     
  20. KellueéHazé

    KellueéHazé Junior Expert

    i really like this idea, but sadly BP would think this is another way to cheat so they would scrap it, that's the only thing they know really. I think they should see this though as it would really benefit some underpowered lvl 45-50's :)
     
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