Mage q7 vs blood staff (my questions)

Discussion in 'Spellweavers' started by Devedolser, Oct 30, 2019.

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  1. Devedolser

    Devedolser Forum Apprentice

    hi my mage have now
    25k cr - without spider
    2.8spd/3,0 in team
    4.8cd-in team
    45k- dmg (weapon q7 with 303%)
    2x royal ruby 3x perfect ruby

    i have question about q7 and blood staff , when blackholle decrease deff all boss'es q7 is usseles? yes or no? i must use blackholle on boss i cant now stay in blackholle and use q7 so now centrain for my question (( Bloodmage Staff with my stone 2x royal ruby 3x perfect ruby + 350%+ dmg is sense? i just wanna have some strong dmg but i know bloodstaff need 5x royal ruby but if i use 2(blue) and 4x platinum i will some strong? q7 just in my opinion is now weak and better choice for future will bloodmage staff but im not sure so i ask thx
     
  2. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Overlooker

    Yes and no.

    Not on all, Mortis is resistant. Also, even when it does, it does so only in the second phase (middle one third of the hp bar).

    Singularity (that's the proper name) reduces all cooldowns when you stand anywhere in it... it doesn't have to be the center. So, you can center it on boss, stand next to him, and have a guardian on the other side of the boss, also next to him. He's slowed by the singu (regardless of the phase), so he doesn't attack the guardian so much, so the guardian doesn't do so fast. Also, you're getting cooldown reduction (=permament guardian) because you're standing in singu.

    Generally, the BiS item on mages is constantly changing. First it was q7, then q4, then q7, then q4 again, then q7 again, then bloodrune, then q7, then bloodrune, and now... I'm lost. I honestly don't know what is the BiS weapon currently, but it will probably change again anyways. For example, in the Winter Solstice Festival there will be an icy bear weapon from the Big Paws bear.

    Differences in damage output are not that large. Bloodrune is for example more stable than q7 in that it's buff-independent and hence more lag-independent... and the servers tend to be laggy. However, we're not sure what's gonna happen in the future, they might want to "fix" it again just because in the next update... and of course a new OP item can be added.
     
    Alpaca and Devedolser like this.
  3. Devedolser

    Devedolser Forum Apprentice

    When i did ask about q7 vs bloodmage mages tell me that bloodmage is more best than q7 on full royale ruby but if i have choice i propably want bloodmage becasue i have more choice in my sets + more speed + more strong averange dmg i dont like q7 after update Singularity game has become more hard on q7 set a lot boss'es have skills which i must dooge when im in Singularity so stay in Singularity is very hard on most boss'es

    Other class have more best gameplay on set q7 (fast cooldown and spam) so rangers/warriors/steam choice always q7 without any question mage have choice because his q7 is impaired? to not tell weak
     
  4. KingsGambit

    KingsGambit Forum Expert

    Hi Dev. Bloodmage is better for you with those rubies. It's of course also more flexible in general.
    Issue is with possible come back of nerf. For now we defended our redoubt but there are some rumours about upcoming second fight.
    Who knows if we can defend again. On the other hand maybe those are only rumours...

    Dwarfs also use Bloodmage for both Fairy and Dragan with q8 on 5x royals.
     
  5. AkodoJac

    AkodoJac Forum Apprentice

    Release 224 change text for bloodmage (in past only english version was text same as bonus "on item"; now all tranlation have same as regular "on item" text). We need prepare for bloodmage calculation change (now all calculation works different to text).
    Choose carefuly ;)
     
    Javah likes this.
  6. Javah

    Javah Old Hand

    I have all three weapons mostly crafted with plat bonuses and I have to say for myself that I can no longer decide which is the "best" to use now (it probably means that there is none so clearly better than the others).

    In my opinion also Bearach weapon makes a great job now, using lightnings in combination with the set of Mortis the effectiveness against bosses is perhaps greater than the other two weapons.

    If I had to bet on Bloodmage I would wait to see its future rebalancing: don't forget we are already "lucky" having the choice between Q4 and Q7 while other classes don't.
     
  7. Devedolser

    Devedolser Forum Apprentice

    For me designers can change bloodmage staff but just give back my platinue and thx i will wait q4 is good set but i never did like q4 because i did not like play with use this for me bonus set from q4 was just usseles i know that lightnings are powerfull maybe in hands good player q4/q7/blood are very good and just everyone have choice i got q7 with 98% dmg basic so this set is for me good way i dont have q4 with gold basic but i try get it maybe and will wait what will with bloodmage weapon i like this weapon and q4 but q7 is not my favorite design and gameplay today ..

    Im mage forever but i did play all classes and they have just better q7 more fast and comfortable im not have strong mage which can not die after 1x shot boss so if i use Singularity very near boss one bad and im dead is a lot problems with this tactic boss'es like shot from sky aoe attacks ... lol just tragedy !

    Mages just got used with slowly and strange q7 a lot mages just choice q4 or bloodmage just because

    this is price for choice weapon

    im not think so they just have q4 and q7 but ... q7 is just most powerfull ;) designers dont give them choice (smart player just choice more strong weapon) you have of course 50% true
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
  8. KingsGambit

    KingsGambit Forum Expert

    Mages just use 3 weapons cuz their q7 sucks. If you compare raw dmg from q7 bonus mage is 1x and than you have sth like tank 3x, Dwarf 4x and Ranger 20x. It was counted before, idr exactly now but it's sth similar. We are just picking "whatever" and once we hit royals switch to Bloodmage cuz it's simply mathemtically better than. That's all.
     
  9. Javah

    Javah Old Hand

    LOL, why shooting meaningless random numbers just for the fun of shooting them?

    Better your start to look beyond.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
    DreamWill likes this.
  10. KingsGambit

    KingsGambit Forum Expert

    It's not meaningless, it's just from memory so it's not very accurate but enough for bigger picture. There is nothing to look beyond.
     
  11. Javah

    Javah Old Hand

    "20x rangers" is not "not very accurate", it is shooting meaningless numbers, sorry to have to insist about it. To don't mention that our Q7 bonus stands longer than for other classes (practically, 100% of time if you play over your own vortex).

    Wait a couple of releases and see what happens to BM.

    The fact that the next release adapts all the foreign tooltips to the one that has always been present in the English interface is a second signal, after that "nerf" on TS that they temporarily withdrawn.

    Things happen even if we don't like/want them, don't you know it?
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
    DreamWill likes this.
  12. DreamWill

    DreamWill Old Hand

    Totally invented numbers:D especially nowadays we can spam pots all the time so q7 buff for rangers is only +150% dmg for almost half time in the best condition (maxed runes, 5p on net and dwarf in group), while yours is +150% dmg for 90-100% of the time, so which is better?:rolleyes: Of course our is easier to play and more comfortable (plus use so many pots is very expensive, for this reason is still better), but this doesn't make it with higher output damage, these are the real numbers;)

    PS: 60s CD on meteor isn't an excuse because highest CD for rangers is wild path with 50s and we haven't any q8 set like dwarf nor your singularity nor any skill to reduce CD, but if I want I can spawn them in 20s or less (in particular cases), you only have to know what to do and what to use, so...
     
    Javah likes this.
  13. Devedolser

    Devedolser Forum Apprentice

    q7 have now two big problem when im alone mage in team i must use vortex on boss = slowly + dec def after 1/3hp destroy but yes i can use vortex very near boss and stay some behind him but this is some hard when i stay in vortex i cant dodge attacks i got deconcetracion when i wait for my q7 bonus or just did used teleport for max my mana = i cant dodge

    So q7 is hard set for skilled players with good defense and dooge skills i cant spam far about boss how ranger or dwarf only i must be near boss;es this very big price for 90-100% of the time cd for me too large but to day i not have big choice :)

    So mage q7 alone is or without q7 bonus (very fast) or stay very near boss = very dangerous so mage has become melee fighter with very near distance
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
  14. DreamWill

    DreamWill Old Hand

    I know these problems, but you have guardian that help you to taunt bosses, plus singularity's effect and frozen they become very slow to attack, you can stay few seconds without any risk, and… have you ever tried emilia's shoulders? with them you can spam another singularity very fast, so you can use 2 singularities close to have larger area where you can move
     
    DBS-Flamelurker likes this.
  15. DBS-Flamelurker

    DBS-Flamelurker Forum Great Master

    DK, Ra and SM: Q7

    SW: BM, if you have royal rubies.
    Without royal rubies I recommend Q4. Work better with Mortis.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
    DreamWill likes this.
  16. DreamWill

    DreamWill Old Hand

    @Devedolser yes if you want to use mortis set remove q7 because it's better to keep dragan instead q7, I always ignore its existance:p
     
  17. Devedolser

    Devedolser Forum Apprentice

    mortis set is glitched so i ignore its existance players just use mortis set to have 120k dmg+ so i just wait. I did q7 when was very good now i must change weapon :)

    i have only 2 royal rubes so i will have 279dmg in weapon or some more 300 maybe but royal rubes 5x= 450dmg so i lose 171dmg i just think what problem will its for BM

    Q4 is good idea but BM is for me just more op weapon for future (of course if will not weakness)
     
  18. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Overlooker

    Actually, it didn't change in my language... but if they started changing it, it's a sign that they're up to something.
     
  19. KingsGambit

    KingsGambit Forum Expert

    Do the math session than talk bro. Archers have ez 20 times stronger q7 than mage. Altough tough to check it's countable.

    In neutral envoirment without Mortis mage q7 buff is around 8-10% extra raw dmg for made chars. Count how much raw dmg output you getting from q7 ;) Don't forget to include multiplication from armor and res reduction.
     
  20. DreamWill

    DreamWill Old Hand

    as you want:)
    Suppose a ranger and a mage have the same base damage, attackspeed (the last speedbrak: 3,64), crit rate and crit damage. The highest possible damage for rangers is spamming all the time EA and for mage is frozen sphere: 500% vs 410% dmg and we both can do this thanks to the pots, q7 isn't necessary.
    in 10 seconds we hit 36 times, this means 18000% dmg for rangers and 14760% for mages, ok calculate break armor as x2 dmg on ranger (it's more like x1,8/1,9 but I want to help you) so becomes 36000% for rangers against 14760% for mages (I help you without considering your singularity) maths says 36000%/14760% = 100/41 (precise calcululation), it's around x2,4 more dmg than mages and not x20.

    Now consider the q7 buff: +150% and this is equal for rangers and for mages too, a build without mortis set with red ess we have +600% damage (I think lower, but I want to help you), so q7 buff isn't 8-10% extra damage but 20% more (higher without ess, but I want to help you), as I said rangers have it for almost half time, but ok consider 5 secs: 9000% (dmg in 5s) +20% = 10800%+9000% = 19800%
    and with x2 from break armor is 39600%, it's still lower than x3 dmg and I haven't calculated your q7 dmg.
    Let's see it now: 13120% (dmg in 9s) +20% = 15744% + 1640% = 17384% and the ratio becomes x2,27, lower than non-q7 buff as you can see;)
    Even considering the break-armor x5 (mobs pass from 80% armor value, the max possible to 0%, the min possible) and the mages uses only magic missile the ratio (non-q7 buff, better for you) is 90000%/5800% (it hits 50 times in 10 secs I suppose)= x15,5 times mages' dmg, sorry but I can't see how it's possible to have x20 dmg than you:)

    If you want we can calculate the amount of potions too: frozen sphere costs 50 mana and you get back 10 per hit, so we can consider it as 40 cost, and you get back 12 mana every second, so you totally need 36*40-120=1320 mana from pots, while EA costs 66 concentration and rangers get 8 conc per second: 18*66-80 = 1108 concentration, little less considering q7 active for half time to help you, but as you know it isn't half time active, while your really can be 90-100% time active, and other mages say this too;)

    If we look only dmg q7 helps you more than us, q7 for rangers is only to save pots: without it i have to regenerate 36*66-80=2296 concentration with pots, 1k more than you.

    If we both don't use potions mages get a better advantage because we can't spam anymore, while you can, and magic missile deals x2 dmg than hunting arrow.

    And I helped you very much: I haven't considered break-armor on singularity, I haven't considered that rangers have to mark enemies before hitting, I haven't considered that you thanks to the guardian plus your super strong slowing effects can stay in the same point almost all the time to spam while rangers lose at least 30% of their dmg only to dodge.

    In conclusion, yes rangers have higher dmg than mages, but not x20, just a bit more, but it's fair if we consider that mages have better defence, almost like DKs, thanks to their powerful support skills (stuns, slowing and taunts), +10% hp is meaningless while the other is untouchable, so to me RAs and SWs are balanced, in a weird way because should be the opposite, mages with higher dmg and rangers as supporters, but this game is weird so imo it's ok:D
     
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