Suggestion Minimum damage required to enter a group

Discussion in 'Creative Corner' started by JohnWick, Jul 19, 2020.

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Do you think there should be a minimum damage option to create a group

  1. Yes

    50.0%
  2. Not

    50.0%
  1. JohnWick

    JohnWick Junior Expert

    Hello, I think that there should be an option when creating a group that lets you choose the damage of who you want to enter the group, I mean that for example I want people with minimum 50k damage, and always try to strain people who have just arrived at the Level 55 or 30k damage.

    So, just as the window appears for you to put the name and the box if you want to hide the group, there would be another box where you could put the minimum damage that you want the other players to have, and if you do not comply with that damage that you could not Ask for group and / or you couldn't see the group in the group list.

    I think it would prevent low damage players from trying to take advantage of what they do have and that decent groups could form quickly.

    I do not mind helping if you ask politely, but if I need to form a group with high damages to do an event or farm high, it bothers me that people lie to me to try to take advantage of me for wanting to go faster in the game of what should go, making me lose time and patience.
     
  2. Phyrix

    Phyrix Forum Baron

    Nah
    Wont work, imagine having 10k damage and setting group requirements to 80k
    You cannot base it on cv either because pop an hp physic and hp tonic and see cv rocket
    if it does however bother you that much maybe do what I do
    1 address the player kindly telling them to leave
    2 leave <- just that, I know it costs entries but thats life
    Added:
    I cannot see how this is so much of a problem unless the player was carried?
    my reason for stating that is because fe pink fragments had to have been farmed on i6.
    Anyways 50k damage is nothing my dk with dmg buff and raptor has 52k damage and I still wont be able to fast farm i3 till I am on 80k
    Thats life
    EDIT:
    Also do not forget 1h players has a much lower base but that doesnt mean they are useless
    take players like navelko he reaches 72k dmg during gwenfara buff on his 1h ranger.
    lines get blurry in anyways
    would you rather have a 55k dk in your group or a 40k mec in your group?
    rangers have perma armor break with EA <- because its a main skill
    Any attack from a dk with 60k damage even will be nothing in comparison an explosive arrow or second Ea from a ranger with 40-45k dmg
    So i just made 3 examples of why your damage requirements will not really work as intended in game
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2020
    navelko likes this.
  3. TwiliShadow

    TwiliShadow Forum Veteran

    The requirements would have to apply to all members of the group including the creator.

    Thus a 10k damage toon couldn't create a group requiring 80K because that toon would be kicked from the group and it would collapse. That is the only way to make it fair.

    Then a 10k damage toon could only ask for a group of 10k and the damage requirement should be displayed in the list and all invites (etc.) so that those looking to help could if they wanted to. Otherwise, the 10k toon would get a bunch of 10k toons and they do it the way they are supposed to.

    Then, a 50K toon could create a group and allow, at the toons descression, say 25K requirement and help as toon is willing.
    That would make it fair.

    So when a group is created, the default minimum damage would be 0k unless the creator set it higher. Next point is that the min settings can only be changed when everyone in the group is in town and agrees to the change (thus a toon can't be forced out by a change in leadership changing the setting).
     
  4. elitecrew1031

    elitecrew1031 Padavan

    It wont work If i have 20k dmg for example,I'll just stack mortis set / use red essence/ dmg buffs. And i can still enter in the random guy in regional that search players with 80k+.
     
  5. TwiliShadow

    TwiliShadow Forum Veteran

    Then if you take off the red essence you would no longer qualify and you get, after a small time delay, ported back to town and out of the group.

    The time delay would allow for rebuffing, putting on another stack of essence, etc.
     
  6. Inu

    Inu Forum Apprentice

    I agree there can be this possibility when you create group why not. Only if you joining group. If you stay in town so no reason for others to see others stats items etc... So for joinin group probably good ofc add too attack speed critic values there. i know like 80% of community dont know what DPS means but anyway example kara ranger no usin conc pots spam green arrow between net cooldown can be in stats 80k max dmg but dps is on 60k dmg dwarf which know how to play for best dps etc... But add also the option to ban joining the group for all 4classes. Because 90k war isnt same like 90k sw dw ra. And cooldown on esences or buffs is good joke...
     
  7. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Count Count

    It's a bad idea. We need better ingame content, which would attract better people. Current situation attracts scumbags and promotes scummy behaviour and cheapskateness. You can't force people not to do that. You can force them out of the game, which wouldn't be good, or you can attract better people and promote wholesome behaviour by not imposing zombie-grind requirements. That's it.
     
    vkillerx likes this.
  8. JohnWick

    JohnWick Junior Expert

    Phyrix
    Nah
    Wont work, imagine having 10k damage and setting group requirements to 80k

    The idea is that I can set up a group and ask for a minimum amount of damage, so I could make sure that everyone had a minimum amount of damage, from there on up.

    -------------------

    Also do not forget 1h players has a much lower base but that doesnt mean they are useless

    I know that those who go to one hand do less damage, but unfortunately there are no longer war to one hand in my list of friends nor do I usually see them around the city, the only way to see people at one hand is in pvp, where they go of gods, but it is a separate topic.
    What I propose is farming in high inf (4-7) or being able to do events in a fast and effective way, and I don't think anyone uses mortis with reds to do events or farm for 2-3 hours

    -------------------

    would you rather have a 55k dk in your group or a 40k mec in your group?
    rangers have perma armor break with EA <- because its a main skill
    Any attack from a dk with 60k damage even will be nothing in comparison an explosive arrow or second Ea from a ranger with 40-45k dmg

    This is not about examples or classes, it is about damage, I do not care about your abilities, if you do not have damage you cut me in half, (this we owe to bp and its great update that prevented you from taking pj with little damage to high difficulty levels), is how to carry a magician that does not have damages just because he can throw singularities without stopping, that will give you the same if you do not have damages to kill the final boss.
    You can mount a group of dwarves, or warriors, or magicians, or hunters, or mix all classes, they are damage you will not be able to, and that is the original idea.
    Imagine that I mount a group of 20k damages, combining the 4 classes and we go to inf4, do you think we will have any chance? do you think we will farm well? Can we with herald, with heredur, with mortis?
    I think that it is better to be able to mount a group with 70k minimum damage, that way we would have more possibilities, I do not care if the 4 classes are in the group or if they only go with one class. Unfortunately it is what prevails in the game, even if the bad slime takes me and the blood boils every time I think about it, but this is so.

    -------------------

    TwiliShadow

    The requirements would have to apply to all members of the group including the creator.

    Correct, if you have 10k damage you can only create a group of maximum 10k

    -------------------

    Then, a 50K toon could create a group and allow, at the toons descression, say 25K requirement and help as toon is willing.
    That would make it fair.

    Perfect, so you can help pj with less damage than you, help in the guild, etc ...

    -------------------

    elitecrew1031
    It wont work If i have 20k dmg for example,I'll just stack mortis set / use red essence/ dmg buffs. And i can still enter in the random guy in regional that search players with 80k+.

    I don't think that people like that would take on a high farming group, I don't see that someone is able to put on red essences for 2-3 hours, even if it's 1 hour, and that they have to be carrying the set all the time because mortis appears and Bush.

    It is as if he said, hey, I use herald set, with red essences and the bonus reached 150k damage, I can already enter the group, no, I do not see that correct.

    The idea is that if I have (for example) 50k of damage, I can ask that as a requirement the minimum damage to enter the group is 50k, without counting set, or bonuses, only with white essences and at most the pet.

    -------------------



    I was very happy before, you could set up a group with 3 that had damage and 1-2 that didn't, you could take almost everyone, they could help you and then you could help yourself.

    I lost count of times I asked the war for help with one hand to get my weapon, it needs him to put his face on me and I while giving love to the final boss, unfortunately, this is now a pipe dream.

    There are no warriors like this because it became fashionable that everyone wanted to go 2-handed, the blockade was left solely and exclusively for pvp, the life and skills of the final bosses were too increased, making going to one hand impossible.

    Added

    I think I should not have explained myself well, the idea of that thread is that if I (for example) have 80k of damage, I ask for players with those minimum damages, and I get one that says that it has them but in fact it has 20k, we are going to inf7 and they break my soul at the first change, I cannot perform the Q, I lose an entry to inf7 (which costs an entry in time, effort and / or andermant, because on top of that I cannot kick him out of the group once we are within the Q.

    With my idea you could make sure that whoever asks you for a group has at least those damages, then if you are already a god and you want to put a 5k damage requirement because you have 150k it seems great to me, or that you do not use it because you do not care about the damage That people have, great, I only ask for this option to be able to do inf 4-7, not all of us have or want to be in a clan, few are lucky to be in a clan with people who have a lot of damage, so we have the option to set up a group and pray that whoever asks you for a group does not lie about the damage it has.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2020
  9. NSDT-returns

    NSDT-returns Someday Author

    It's not a bad idea. It would really allow to make fast farm group while ensuring you don't get a guy who just hops in saying he has x dmg when he doesn't even have half.
    At the same time it doesn't stop you from farming with weaker people if you don't mind.

    The big question is: how do you implement it ?
    1> Combat Value: Terrible idea, we know how poor it is as a dps indicator
    2> Max or Min dmg: Seems solid however there is the mortis set and the essence issue.
    => We would need a way to get the damage without taking essences and temporary buffs (like mortis) into account ; taking the BASE DMG (before modifiers) could work too (however it would feel odd at first since base dmg is like 2/4 times lower than real dmg)
    3> An indicator that displays to the group leader the DMG / ATK SPD / CRITRATE / RESOURCE /HP of the guy asking to group (option a group leader can activate)
    => Little bit of privacy breach but still efficient since you can't cheat on dmg /atq spd / crit rate at the same time
    4> Success points which would be simple to implement and fairly decent (except for old 40 / 45 / 50 coming back to game as new 55 who will have high success low damage)
    => easy and already used by some people (who ask for "exp warrior" or "battleground champ")

    I get why some people are opposed to it, but it seems a totally reasonnable idea.
    Were they no "scammers" who lie about their dmg to get into high dmg groups there would be no issue there. But it happens quite a lot.
    At least it would be a way to ensure a strong group if you don't want to waste specific essences / infernal fragments / time.
    You could still help out weaker player if you want.

    Another really good solution would be the ability to votekick a player from a group: As long as all other players agree to votekick him (the group leader if it's a 2p group), he is SENT SOLO ON A COPY OF THE SAME MAP (solves the issue of fragment waste since he still gets what he paid for + a total reset would make this an exploit to farm infernal frags / t8-10 items). If it's during a boss fight both parts of the group (remaining members / solo guy) have to start the boss over.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2020
    JohnWick likes this.
  10. JohnWick

    JohnWick Junior Expert

    NSDT-returns

    Thank you very much, I am not saying that one way or another is better to implement it, I mean the concept as you very well said.
    I think that no player should see the statistics of another without their consent, I think that should be implemented in the option to create a group.

    I have no idea how my idea would be implemented, I only have the concept, a minimum requirement for balancing the groups, be it 20k damage, 50k or 1kk damage. That farming and making events is easier and faster, that there are no players who take advantage of others, since bp rewards going in a group and that the 4 classes are present, this idea would help to form homogeneous groups and that they could meet objectives without losing half an hour looking for people who can really contribute to the group.
     
  11. elitecrew1031

    elitecrew1031 Padavan

    Well, BP can't force players with what equipment they can play or not or what set counts to enter in a certain group. Because if we don't count sets this means players with karabosa,dragan,premium belt,easter event set won't be able to enter in the glorious 80k+ dmg groups. I have a better solution for you .
    Whenever I play events or PW or w/e you can think of 80% of the time I play with players from my Friend list or my Guild,10-15% I play with people from regional (but only duo or trio so I can see how good actually is the player) and 5% I troll in regional that's it. Next time you go in a group from regional just see who is preforming well,add him in your friend list and tell him you are going to search him next times you are online. That's it. The mechanic you want to get implemented requires a lot conditions, which means it probably won't get released
     
    JohnWick likes this.
  12. JohnWick

    JohnWick Junior Expert

    I think it's great, but ...

    1) Searching one by one for those that meet the damage is slow, expensive and seems to me a great waste of time and resources.

    2) A guess, I am looking for people to go to inf7, and one comes and tells me that if he has 100k damage, I put him in the group, we go to inf7 and it turns out that he has 5k damage, and we are going to see the losses:
    -I put it on a black list of liars
    -Loss of pass to inf7.
    -Loss of time and money that it costs to get a pass to inf7.

    3) And so on and on and on until he meets someone who does not lie about the damage he has.

    4) After adding them to friends to go with them, keep in mind:
    -That connect often
    -That we coincide at the same times, for example, today it is good for me to enter to play in the morning and tomorrow it is better for me in the afternoon, I would have to make too many friends to see who enters what time and what days to have people with the one to play.

    5) If I ask for 80k of damages, it will be because I have them and I NEED people with the same damages. I don't care if they wear karabosa, dragan, premium belt, easter event set or whatever.

    What I am not going to allow is that thugs or people with the set of mortis and 20k of basic damage ask for a group saying that they have 80k of damage (set loaded and red) and then have to load the set of mortis, die 1000 times for the maps (or because mortis is coming or because if you do not have a good weapon you will not have bothered to have a good high tier team and minimum crafting with gold lines), reload it, reach the final boss and in 1 minute the bonus ends and get 20k damage again.

    My idea is to ask for a minimum of damages, as is, I do not care if you use the herald or the wolf weapon (which are currently the only viable ones, the others are there and do not even reach the soles of the shoes), I do not want to see the damage that it has or its sets, only a box in which to put the damages that I request, obviously as I said before if I ask for 80k I will have at least those damages obligatorily to avoid the same, that 5k damage people mount groups asking for 80k of damages.

    Later, in my free time I will help those who I see fit, but when I am in a hurry it is not to waste time looking for people who do not lie, do not scrounge and do not make me lose valuable resources in the form of passes, walks, essences, the time etc etc etc
     
  13. TwiliShadow

    TwiliShadow Forum Veteran

    Yes you can. They changed that back months ago. You don't have to be in town to boot someone anymore.

    However, I do like the idea that you boot them to their own instance instead of to town.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2020

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