Bug R180 Upgrades - Darbmoor gear (low level Grimmagstone items)

Discussion in 'General Archive' started by MikeyMetro, Jan 11, 2017.

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  1. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    Here we go again :D
    You are twisting the words as you please.
    Yes ... I found a bug too ... reporting it as well
    These items are broken

    Llogos likes this.
  2. sebastian_fl

    sebastian_fl Count Count

    Okay. whatever. hope you get your candies back soon.
  3. Mal3ficent

    Mal3ficent Guest

    Hello there!
    We would like to inform you about the latest bug with the low level items ("legacy items").

    The bug:
    The enchantments on those “legacy items” are set back to their base values, and all upgrades (spent glyphs) on those items are ignored.

    The devs are aware of this issue and are already working on a solution.

    Llogos, Yogo and MikeyMetro like this.
  4. -DeathRaider-

    -DeathRaider- Forum Pro

    I was hoping for something to change, i personally have a belt with over 1k critical in it and it now has 39. It cut my critical in half and has made things harder in dragan event. I wouldn't mind if they were nerfed though because it is unfair for new players. But i am glad to know this wasn't done on purpose making low lvl legendaries useless and is just a bug.
  5. sebastian_fl

    sebastian_fl Count Count

    Any comment on legacy items having ridiculously higher stats comparing to anything today? or is it off the table (for another year) and the fix will just get them back to their yesterday buggy 'normal'?
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017
  6. MikeyMetro

    MikeyMetro Forum Overlooker

    With any luck. If not I'm gonna have to invite the neighborhood over to help me eat all this chicken :D

    Luck be with ye,
  7. EhtovK

    EhtovK Old Hand

    I'm truly sorry to hear about your situation, it couldn't have happened with worse timing, considering the event that it's up, hope it gets fixed soon.

    As for the discussion, I expected better from some people, some miscalculated values on items from the past is far from being "fair", I don't blame you for using them, as always it's the devs fault, but to go as far and say it's "fair" to have them?, because some people like me, who came later, have busted our rears off to farm and craft good crit items just as much as you did for your low level gear, and for the effort we get items that look mediocre vs your upgraded low level gear when put side by side.

    Fair, is you having lots more of event gems (jewels of rage, solstice stars, etc.), and bigger regular gems, tons more of GoP, which is obviously expected from an older and hard working toon, but a broken item due to a "different perspective" back in the day doesn't make it less broken nor fair, again, it's not your fault, it's the devs for not adressing them properly and, at the very least, making the values more or less equivalent to those of hard crafted end game items, not superior.

    Just my 2 cents.
  8. MikeyMetro

    MikeyMetro Forum Overlooker

    So let me see if I've got this... the next time any of y'all get a piece of gear that is way better than what you have; you are not going to use it because it's "unfair." :p Ofc, the response will be, "yeah but anybody can get the same thing now unlike the old stuff." That is only somewhat true. None of my lvl 50s (which do not use any of this legacy gear, btw) Have a much in the way of legendary gear with gold stat lines despite have multiple inventory tabs full of beautiful exo gold line ingredients, having spent tens of thousands of gold and only the Gaming Godz know how many attempts. Despite this I do not bemoan what others have that I do not.

    Fair is a pointless word. Every time I get sucked into using it I instantly regret it. The game is what it is. It's like dirty rotten evil spawn of polecats twinks. I may not like them but there is nothing unfair about them. The game allows, even to a point encourages them. Like I said, is what it is.... until it is something else.

    Also, before labeling me perhaps you should know all the facts before spouting off. So here are the facts about my two characters that are being hosed by The Bungling Devs :)oops: ranting again) during this event for using these items that are not BUGGED, BROKEN or in any way strange... they are just old.

    These are my old DK and SW back from one toon per account days. Lvl47 KotO and lvl46 NKotO respectively. Both retired from pvp after finishing the RTF quest, back when that was the only pvp quest (side note: when the other pvp quests were introduced none of their previous wins counted towards the progress in those... man, was that unfair, lol.) Anyway, The SW never used any of these legacy items in pvp. I was in to big of a hurry to be the first to get the 1000 win crown on Tegan to take the time to farm them. The DK did use a couple but upgrading was only done with anders back then so ultimately I could not even keep them upgraded to my level not to mention the fact that over-leveling was not even allowed in the game back then.

    It was only after I was done with pvp and since it was along wait for the first level cap raise that just for something to do that I went back to see how good of these items it could actually get. Both of these toons were essentially retired when the cap was still lvl40.

    Fast froward to my return to the game about a year ago. I primarily play the toons as alts in events figuring they will eventually get to lvl 50. My focus has been on my main Ranger and the also getting the other toons on that account up to lvl50. The DK and SW have finished Myrdosch as well but neither have started Lor'Tac. The legacy items on the lvl47 are upgraded to lvl 44 and the ones on the 46 to 42. So basically these items along with the other gear I have are just there so I do not have to spend time replacing gear as I level up in PVE. Lol, my DK uses the old Sargon set, up to 45, as part of my play with what I already have plan. I get some pretty funny comments on that from older players when doing pvp for clovers. I have changed shields on him a few times and during the last Full Moon I finally got what I wished I had long ago... an old Vargulf shield :p

    As I mentioned none of my lvl50 use these items any more. Why? Because despite the supposed advantage of these mine are so old they predate % values on gear. Can't play at endgame in today's game without some % crit dmg or for my lvl50 DK %HP on the LH items.

    So... It is pitiful that I feel compelled to make this off-topic post to defend my integrity and sense of "fair" play to those high and mighty players who feel they can pass judgement at will without knowing what they heck they are talking about. I like to play more than a couple of toons, actually quite a few, IN PVE! So how has my use of these items negatively impacted the community in any way, shape or from. Come on you know-it-alls... your turn.

    Last edited: Jan 13, 2017
    trakilaki, semen470 and buzzed99 like this.
  9. EhtovK

    EhtovK Old Hand

    Mikey, there's no need to take it personal and go as far as to say some of us are "attacking your integrity and sense of 'fair' play", personally I never asked for them to be rendered useless, being removed for good, nor labeled/accused anyone of (ab)using them in PvP/PvE. Would I like them to be slightly adjusted to be (at least) mildly paired with achievable end game crafted items?, yes, I'm sorry if that seems "unfair" to you, but it's just my personal opinion.

    You're correct, it doesn't impact the community (much, IMO) in any way, shape or form, I couldn't care less up to this point and I knew about their existence a long time ago, I just stated an opinion based on how aggresively some people were defending their existence in the game, but..., I'm not repeatedly complaining about them, nor actively seeking for tweaks on them either, if they adjust them, good, if they leave them the same, meh.

    Also, I do understand your POV about crafting and getting new gear, but personally, I've NEVER seriously complained about "unfairness" because someone got a better craft or drop, that's just "luck", and in theory, we all have the same chances and are on equal ground, unlike with those old low level items, which I firmly believe were removed/reworked for a reason.

    And just to wrap things up and leave this to rest, this is all just my opinion, I'm not trying to appear "high and mighty", nor a "know-it-all" (I'm quite far from any of those), nor I'm trying to prove/impose my "morals" to anyone, it's an opinion, peace.

  10. rpfo

    rpfo Padavan

    I do agree with this statement. I knew about those low lvl items but never see one of them. I was already playing but didnt know about them when they were dropping.

    I said before that everyone will defend its own side and this is what Mikey is doing. He i not wrong.

    But really , imo , as long as those items doesnt fit to the pattern of the game drops and they give huge advantage to the players that have them, its not fair to be kept in the way they are. Its similar to say , pls dont fix the blood rune set that was giving extra power to players (and it was fixed and also players were warned to not abuse). If the items were dropped from the game , even if there was time for some players to farm them , they are not fair.

    The whole servers have much more problems that inflict all players and would be better to use the time to fix it instead of going (again) to fix items that was oficially noticed as sorta bug and just a very few players have them.

    ps.: ps if those old items lost their line values , means that devs changed something on item values behavior and forgot about them :/
  11. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    EhtovK and rpfo and sebastian_fl

    You are twisting the truth. :)
    For a start those low level items are not bugged ...
    That set was bugged ... unlike the old low level items which are not.
    Now ... to have understanding on this matter one has to have clear understanding of the game and its mechanics in the past and the mechanics today as well.
    At the time when level 40 was a cap level ... the items were not like today. Player's cap level was 40 ...BUT ... not all items (especially those in the left hand side) were level 40. For some of them cap level was level 39 for some jewelry it was 38 and the weapons 37


    At later stage Watery Grave and Q6 were introduced ... together with them new "Ghost" items (still in the game ) have been brought in the game (you can see them glowing in the screen above). Those new items were "more powerful" that the old ones ... but just because they were simply level 40. The mechanics started changing starting with the Ghost Items ... because later on GoPs were introduced in the game
    So those old items had a different upgrading formula.
    So those Items are legit and not bugged.

    That is incorrect ... You have your answer in your quote
    They didn't wait ... they changed the mechanics and gave new items to all players (beneficial for the new players) opportunity to catch up with the old low level items ... while not removing them in the same time.
    They introduced % crit hit in both left and right side.
    Just to make a good example I will use my build in this post https://board-en.drakensang.com/threads/showcase-your-ranger.10239/page-46#post-661130

    As you can see... I can get 80% crit hit by using only quiver and Eternal Grasp (plus some crit in the Karabossa's cloak which is irrelevant) ... so if I switch back to Darkness boots I get almost 9300 crit hit (still 80%).
    I am not even using a low level item in my build ... which just proves that those low level items are not so powerful anymore. Any new player can get to 80% crit hit without loss in damage or crit damage (you only need to be smart and create smart build). :)

    Old players are playing this game for 5 years or slightly more ... they have been treated very badly in the past. The game protects and creates contents and rules that are beneficial only for a new players ... while discriminating the veterans and constantly forcing them to adopt to changes. But that is OK ... we can survive.
    We have been the main pillar for this game to survive and grow until present. Without us remaining in the game ... there wouldn't be new players ...there wouldn't be "you" playing the game.

    We have been playing for years just to collect knowledge in the knowledge tree (no mentor bonus, no buying books) ... the new players got mentor bonus and possibility to get to cap level instantly.
    We had to adopt throughout all changes in the past .
    We have been playing extremely hard events ... new players today get easy events and they still whine.
    We have been collecting mounts here and there ... just so we can ride when we get to certain level required in the game. New players create toons and ride the "bus" immediately.
    .... and many more examples which are not just a cosmetic changes but rather devaluation of our past work.
    But it's OK ... we are flexible ... we can survive ... as we did so far.
    But there are things that that new players can't have ... simply because they are marking of some particular time.
    Just like this item


    So... in conclusion ... those items are not bugged and certainly not that powerful anymore ... and it is incorrect to say that today those items are having advantage over the new ones.

    PS - I have been watching closely at my tone ... so that someone wouldn't think that I am in aggressive rampage ... just calmly presenting you the facts :)
  12. EhtovK

    EhtovK Old Hand

    Of course they're not, Traki, I never said so, and if I did say "bugged" feel free to quote me.

    Your approach is actually very correct, and states some things that I of course ignored due to the fact that I'm a relatively new player compared to you in DSO, and it also aligns with that which Mikey said, those items don't make a significant difference in an overall build due to the crit cap, I've been watching closely your SW build, Sebastian's, and some others, even your RA's build, and those low level items are NOT needed to attain an overkill value in CHR, just as you said.

    Still, although you correctly stated that they're not bugged and not that powerful anymore, the fact that they exist and have remained viable since the level cap was 40, and there wasn't a need to replace them when the level cap went to 45, and then to 50, speaks for itself when it comes to say if they have an advantage over new items or not. Now the question would be, if they were to increase the level cap to 55 and/or 60, and those items hypothetically remain viable and usable (while some of us will need to craft new items), isn't that an advantage in itself?, remember I mentioned "a reason", from a dev POV I don't think they intended to create legendary items that would remain viable (viable, not super OP), through 2-3 level cap increases, and again, I'm taking the approach of item vs item, not comparing overall builds because they end up being similar.

    I'm sorry to inform you that old players aren't the only ones directly or indirectly suffering from this, for instance, just because of their brilliant difficulty scale formula I feel like my toon hasn't improved jack since the last year, although numbers say otherwise, BigPapa said it back in the day "I find my toon growing in numbers, yet being able to accomplish less and less", but you're correct again, we adapt, I complete the events, quests and challenges regardless and try to play smart, not hard.

  13. sebastian_fl

    sebastian_fl Count Count

    They have not made the players equal. this is a total lie.

    They did not let the newer player to catch-up. this is complete nonsense.

    Right side items have nothing to do with it. they even make it all worse. the player with the low leg 400 crit line will benefit more than the player with crafted 300 crit line.

    The player with low legs needs much less crit lines overall to reach the cap. the newer player needs more. would you debate it?

    12x400 = 16x300. thats it, period. you can now say whatever you want, but it would only be a complete nonsense.

    There is one simple fact. there is no way to get an item in the game as powerful as the low level gear is, not even close.

    And this issue has never been addressed.

    Now twist whatever you want.

    And as of build, completely incorrect again. with low level gear, I can setup a char that wouls would never ever setup without it. this is mathematical nonsense. you claim that 300 equals 400.
  14. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    "So What"
    -- Anti Nowhere League​

    Why didn't you farm them? No one was stopping you :D
    You didn't abuse Grimmagstone but you abuse Q3 today right? :D

    Ahh ... those were the days :)


    buzzed99 and MikeyMetro like this.
  15. MikeyMetro

    MikeyMetro Forum Overlooker

    Viable? :D It it this type of non-factual speculation the leads to a distorted PoV. Do you know how many GoP it takes to upgrade ONE of these items to lvl55? Well, ofc you don't so I'll tell you. 152M (w/ Deluxe discount)... that's right 152 followed by six zeros. Or in other words almost the same as every piece of equipped gear except main and off-hand from lvl 50 to 55 (again w/ deluxe discount.)

    Now since you and others enjoy imagining so much just imagine with the exponential increase in GoP required what it would take to get that ONE item up to lvl 60 or 65.

    Now me, I prefer to stick to the facts. It is a fact there is such a thing called Diminishing Return where the practical outweighs the "hypothetical." No one in their right mind (or at least close to it as in my case :p) is going to do this when the the same stat caps can be reached much easier by re-equipping with current gear. If they turn this into Korean Botensang... well then, perhaps :rolleyes:

    Now, allow me to take this factual exercise one step further. I'll take a lvl 8 wep adorn with 4 near perfect CRH line and up it to 55. Add 2 Boodtooths and a CHR helm. Hmmm, well my CHR is decent but not near the cap. I know... I'll spend another 152M GoP on this lvl 4 amulet I have with 2 CHR lines (nevermind that the 2 dmg lines will be lower than a lvl 50 item) and spend ANOTHER 152M GoP on it. There I've got it... at the cap, a bit over actually so now I'm good to go for the next character lvl cap raise... ummm... provided they don't change anything again like they did with lvl 50. Geez, thisis making my head hurt. Can one of you speculators out there tell me what they are going to do when the lvl cap raises again? Oh, nvm, I'll just take this legacy lvl 2 belt I have and spend ANOTHER 152M GoP on it. There, now my CRH is future proofed. Hold on a sec... what happened to my crit dmg??? o_O

    Well I think my facts have just pretty much pwned the hypothetical by now so I'll stop here so I can catch up on all the others wild theories on the forum ;)

    Luck be with ye,
    buzzed99 and trakilaki like this.
  16. EhtovK

    EhtovK Old Hand

    Very well, then why don't you just do it?, if they're sooo costly and sooo not viable why bother in putting 152M GOP per item? :rolleyes:

    Aye, let's do so, the fact is that you want 'em to be fixed so they work as they should despite you saying all sorts of negative things about them, cost in GOP, diminishing returns, re-equipping being more effective and what not, I wonder why? :D

  17. MikeyMetro

    MikeyMetro Forum Overlooker

    Why? LoL, OK I will detail my nefarious master plan... muahahaha :cool: (although I think I already have.. but, hey, I don't want to go back and read my previous posts so why should you :p)

    I want them fixed on my ALTS that are below lvl 50 and have already stopped upgrading them below their current lvl just so I can continue on in the event. Eventually these alts will reach level 50, with these legacy items still at their current lvl. Once these toons start getting lvl 50 gear drops these old items will be retired just as with level 50s on my main account for precisely the reasons I stated.

    The majority of my gaming time has to go towards my main and after that the other toons on that account. (Perhaps you play your characters differently... I dunno.) But I still have these old favorites from back in the one character per account days that I like to play when I can. The best time to play them is during events where I can get more xp gain by playing them in painful diff. The long events like Dragan and the holiday events are ideal for squeezing in an hour or some of game time on these toons every few days. Event minis are the only time I binge play then these alt will get 2 or 3 hours a day.

    The multi-char accts and the char selection screen did not always exist in this game. So I created one acct for each of the 3 classes. When multi-char came along most players consolidated behind a main on one acct. I did not. It was not until I returned to the game a year ago that I finally had to chose if I was going to catch up.

    Alas, it does not appear that a hotfix is forthcoming in time for the next mini so these alts will probably just go back in the box until the next event. As the saying goes, "No plan survives contact with the devs" ... or something like that :rolleyes:

    Luck be with ye,
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2017
  18. EhtovK

    EhtovK Old Hand

    Aye, why? :p

    MikeyMetro likes this.
  19. wangwang

    wangwang Active Author

    I am a troll,i don't take side XD,i see some pov,don't know if i understand correctly,just state below.

    1、I haven't/will not use those powerful low lvl items to kick somebodys butt or hurt someones feeling,leave me alone.
    2、Low lvl item is powerful,but given the effort we put in and the crappy game we suffered,we should have it as a compensation.
    3、Nothing can match up with the low lvl item means new players can never catch up with old players,it is unfair.
    4、Even though low level item is very powerful,it is not free,it requires tons of gop,and the other will catch up when the cap open again,we should keep it.
    5、Some build doesn't need low level item to be powerful.
    6、Some do need it,and will be even more powerful.

  20. sebastian_fl

    sebastian_fl Count Count

    Those are all valid points. and at some point of time, with lvl60, prices will be ridiculous.

    But first of all, you do have that option. I know players with enough glyphs to make 1 of them to lvl55 together with every other normal item.

    Secondly, you are not saying that you dont really need to upgrade it all the way to lvl55. it is pretty good on lower levels too.
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