Feedback Upcoming craftable lifekeeper gonna destroy everything left of balance

Discussion in 'General Archive' started by sebastian_fl, Dec 4, 2017.

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  1. Viki

    Viki Forum Mogul

    ofc, one of the best mages in DSO is only medium, do you know why? because of the really "good" balancing.
    for big point seems legit to give the class with lowest defense also the lowest burst dmg. and now explain me please, what we need to do for reaching 20k dmg with 1 hand? to be a top mage in your opinion :)
    -HARRA81- likes this.
  2. -HARRA81-

    -HARRA81- Forum Mogul

    Yet people are talking about "not having experience" but we are talking about players who has been playing over 5 years and
    also has Grand Marshall and Master ranks :D
    _Baragain_ and EhtovK like this.
  3. iNeXoRaBlE

    iNeXoRaBlE Forum Great Master

    The fact that they whine about that shows lack of experience (even though they play 5years are still newbies), the ranks mean nothing, i have won Grand marshalls with ease (when i was 2h).
    I have encountered players that healed more hp than i dealt with my 2h, instead of whining here at forums i did what was logical, i created a strategy for those people. Many people here don't even try to use their heads to play.
    There is a timer for the reason at the PvPs.
    Now, since i changed at 1h i have a problem dealing with mages and i have stopped playing 1vs1 till i am good enough again.
    And about experience, i have about 6k 1vs1 games in the past 2 years i play.
  4. -HARRA81-

    -HARRA81- Forum Mogul

    Let's talk about experience and lack of it, shall we ?

    So .... This video is from may 2014 when I was already a Field Marshall while you didn't even played Drakensang Online. By this point I had thousands arena matches behind me while you had 0. So you don't actually know, the time before this weapon and how the balance is and how it was. So in my book, you have 0 experience on this matter. You has just played end game what... 1year? So you do not have experience what have changed and what is being right or wrong. If there is right or wrong in the first place lol.

    So after all, my post seems a direct to you but it is not. It's just lack of my English
    skills. I am not fluent in English :) My country men would call it Rally English xD
    so please, do not consider it to be personal rant I just wan't you to see "my" point of view in this matter like I wan't to listen yours also I wan't to explain what is the "real" experience. In my opinion.

    Disclaimer: video is 30 FPS due to some issues with the game and my old VGA. :)
    and also gently +150ms ping ( before the trip to China) xD
    _Baragain_ and EhtovK like this.
  5. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    The more and more you pretend to know the game ... more and more you are describing the issue :D
    There is a reason why in the legal systems there is a "Right to Silence"
  6. sebastian_fl

    sebastian_fl Count Count

    Harra, relax. He is noob with 50k hp on arena, so regen and lifekeeper don't help him. He cannot even imagine an issue, as he gets against 2handed mage being smashed in few hits or 1 EA from an archer, and here he is claiming tanks with 150k hp are not immortal and lifekeeper is no big deal. He has never seen it at the level it makes big deal, he has no clue what it is. He is just another flooder yet to post a single argument besides 'they whine' or 'they don't know how to play'. Just ignore the troll.

    Mesala is here, he is strong DK as hell and can provide the DK viewpoint on the matter. And he is reasonable too.
    EhtovK and ULTRAPEINLICH like this.
  7. iNeXoRaBlE

    iNeXoRaBlE Forum Great Master

    this isn't even a good game from both sides (bad positioning). I don't know if this is a random game but whatever. Point taken, but you miss my point, at the time i see minimal healing so all good for you.
    Well i didn't say it was good, i know there is an issue i even had the same problem and somehow i dealt with it (running and hitting after the timer was at 0).
    I know how it is when you cant deal damage due to the huge healing. I played 2h since the last expansion.
    I am not trying to defend the lifekeeper, but its not the biggest issue at pvp right now.
    Item healing should be completely off, since its nerfed already at the life rings and gems.
    The new lifekeeper provides 0.4 heal ~400hp/block for 80k hp. while the skill i use battle frenzy heals 1500 for the same hp (per sec).
  8. -HARRA81-

    -HARRA81- Forum Mogul

    There is nothing wrong with the positioning. Do not try to fit different ERA meta to current pvp model. There was difference in skills
    especially healing and exhaustion healing.

    Not sure if you refer "minimal healing" for the video or yourself but with +150k hp is a true issue where your skills actually heals more than makes damage.
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017
  9. Demon

    Demon Forum Mogul

    Ok so you are a dso god , grand marshal in arena, i m so impresed.Now let me tell you something - the fact that you spend more money than others in this game to achieve that pvp rank does not mean that you are smart too so your logic has some flaws.
    I see that is your topic because ~70% answers are yours.
    So after the complainings against rangers and the nerfs you all mages became best pvp class, but this is not enough, you have seen there is some strong dk in arena and you want to be much easy to kill them.
    Now about the SW=DK in arena and that hammer - that hammer was nerfed twice on that value and DK one big nerf when they put 3 second delay on that regeneration skill.
    What you want more? You want to make 50% of DK to quit the game just so that you can have easy win against them?
    You want to have the same 1h build as a dk and shoot from distance and kill him but he has regen and you think this is not faire so you try to convince devs to nerf Dk again.
    A 2h mage always win against 2h DK how about to make 1h win too.
    Maybe this will be done but like other games mistakes will be punished by players.
    As for you and all your friends you can make a DK if you think is OP.
    But you want to be the OP class, complaining on forum instead of making two bilds like all DK do.
    What a normal man do you think will continue to farm on a ground nerfed character that need more stats that any other character in this game just because is the only mele character in game.
    I dont know you but i dont like what you write here and your false logic that should sustaint your complains is so bad and with this you can destroy a class that is allredy hard to equip.
    You think is faire that you can have infinite mana and no one can debuff your burning efects?Yo can make just one build and DK need to keep up with 2 builds because we cant make solo leaderboard with 1h.You work half time on your build than a dk and you complain.
    They alredy took the life regen from runes now you want to nerf the items too and after that you will complain about skills.
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017
  10. sebastian_fl

    sebastian_fl Count Count

    Another complete nonsense and off-topic post.
    1. Money - irrelevant. Everyone can spent money. We talk equal DK and Mage here, with money or not. Off-topic.
    2. Rangers being nerfed or not is off-topic again. Even though they still have their OP skill and have no big issues with lifekeeper or DK in general. Off-topic
    3. Some strong DK on arena is irrelevant. We are talking equal tank and mage. With numbers. Not strong DK vs noob mage, not vice versa. Equal mage and DK. Comment is nonsense again.
    4. Hammer nerf - you mean the lifekeeper? Yeah, 0.4 is nerf. But 3k dmg vs 12k dmg, is that a nerf?
    5. Regen nerf with cooldown? DK has plenty of regen and regen lasts 5 seconds. That cooldown is irrelevant.
    6. How DK leaving the game would help win against them?
    7. DK leaving the game for whatever reason is questionable and has nothing to do with the topic.
    8. Easy win - we don't need easy win. We want 50% chance to win. We have Zero.
    9. 2h mage vs 2h DK is questionable and irrelevant. It's off-topic again. If you want to talk on the matter, start your own thread. Lifekeeper has nothing to do with 2 handed setups.
    10. Make a DK comment - irrelevant nonsense. When someone invested 5 years into a char, he cannot move to another class. He will never get items he got, some of them don't exist anymore. Additionally, person has a right to play whatever class wants, and has a right for equal winning chances. Change the class argument is silly and off-topic and used by people who have nothing else to say.
    11. Making two builds - I have three? So what? I have 2 2handed builds, 1 1handed. It is irrelevant anyway.
    12. DK is hard to equip - nonsense. The easiest class to farm, that can smash everything standing. Anyway, it's irrelevant. There are equipped DKs, there are similar mages. How did they get there is irrelevant. Topic is mage has Zero chances to beat equal DK. Another off-topic.
    13. Infinite mana - nonsense. I only have 110 in 1handed PVP mode. Can make 193 for farming. Still not infinite. DK have infinite rage in fights with me. They regen it faster then I do. False statement. Has nothing to do with lifekeeper or regeneration of hp. Off-topic.
    14. Life regen from runes was lost by everyone. And it was ridiculous. Has no5hing to do with the topic.

    In other words, everything you said is either false, off-topic or both.

    I have posted clear explanation of an issue yet to receive a single valid argument from all you UberExperiencedDKs.

    If you have so much experience, tell me how to defeat new lifekeeper equipped DK with 150k+ hp, 12k dmg, 80% crit, +200% crit dmg, 80/70 block, 80/70 resist, 60% running speed assuming Mage with equal stats (but 30% less hp). How? You don't know, ofc. I will tell you - impossible.
  11. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    Complete BS and you know it ... but you have to repeat the same crap over and over for years.
    Otherwise switch the SW's and RA's place vs tank in your example and make the calculations.
  12. Demon

    Demon Forum Mogul

    Your topic is offtopic. Please resume on what you need to be improve on your class dont ask other class to be nerfed, is lack of respect for other players work. Ask for yourself dont try to take over the topic with your childish arguments.
    Make a DK if is so good + easy and talk then when your main character will be DK.
    Is lack of respect in front of me to ask BP to nerf my class. Go farm and make it better is you cant win as equal or maybe you miss something ...just stop with your "i'm always right" because you are not.
    I will not read all you have sed and try to tell you where you are wrong because i know people like you - usually kids that troll streamers- we will never end the discussion is just different perspective you cant change mine.

    PS.So the fact that you make better character in 1/2 time than me and you still complain you think is resonable...omg
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017
  13. sebastian_fl

    sebastian_fl Count Count

    Ok Traki, let's keep it separate) didn't want to argue on the matter nor thought you gonna notice it) will let you write down the math of the archer vs DK, archer is the only class I never played) cheers)
    Apparently I spent too much time explaining where are you wrong. You didn't deserve it. You have no idea what the concept of a thread topic is. Further conversation is unreasonable. You have 0 arguments and you throw 'make a DK' nonsense again. I will 'resume' on whatever I want. You read the forum rules and stop flooding.

    Additionally, I'm not sure I follow you on 'in lack of respect in front of me', with all the respect.

    And finally, again, the topic is not about farming or a need to farm. Topic assumes there are already two strong characters with top stats and there is nothing more to farm, two hypothetical characters, if you know what that means. It has nothing to do with Me, You, Him, Her specifically. No need to make it personal. Cheers
  14. Mesala

    Mesala Advanced

    Hey bro, I've been running circles in mini for the coins and draken cores :p
    I come on the forum and see your great debate about lifekeeper, although you are on the right course, you have just scratched the surface of the problem like I mentioned before.

    The regeneration skill was designed for old 50 level system where HP was a lot smaller then these days. The math supports this skill right about when a tank reaches 150k, assuming he has very nice armor, block, block strength, resistance. This is just my observation based on people I see in arena everyday, people I know etc.

    I am not that great at the math but its an easy assumption what will happen when you have a offensive 1-hand tank with 150k HP. And you and me both know at least 1 player that has those kind of numbers. Then they added lifekepper that compounds on the original regeneration problem.

    I agree with you, but I don't think many people will go for it.

    Its tier 0, that means augment cores, that means drakens, or 10 000 cubes.
    Even if they do go for it, changes for pvp/skills are gonna come.

    I'll maintain that the problem is in the skill that regenarates HP, tank has just way too much regeneration HP on END GAME builds. Combine that with few crazy skills and rest on the ground, in the shallow ditch, and a monkey dances over you.

    I understand your frustration, but same could be said for 2-hand tank arena where your mini map display gives you advantage over that kind of warrior. I could also say the same about rangers and their break armor/explosion arrows. Don't know about dwarfes, they seem easy meal most days.

    I would also like to play pvp with 2-hand tank, maybe not getting one shotted. I do not like that the game forces me to go 1-hand for pvp.

    But back on topic, lifekeeper, I dunno, too much risk involved.
    A) spend 3500 drakens
    B) get a random min/max value
    C) spend xyz amount of augment cores, aka spend more drakens
    D) if you think 150k HP tank is good, replace that left side of the tank with the Agathon set from cube, I don't know how it adds to 150k build, but it says 50% more HP points, same as it works on the shield.
    E) People will be thinking about that weapon when the Circus event arrives, many of them have low drakens now

    Game has pvp and skill problems, no doubt about it, but like I said before, I have patience to wait for 2018, supposedly the year of pvp changes. Until then bro, I'll get frustrated when you kill me in pvp without seeing me, I'll slam dunk a mouse or two when a ranger breaks 90k HP and 72% fire ressistance on 2-hand little ol me in one shot. I'll be thinking about buying RAID spray whenever I see dwarf jump out of battle like a rabbit.

    On the other hand you will get frustrated getting pummeled by one hand tank. In essence we will both be frustrated until the changes arrive, in PVP.

    Yes, and one hand tank build that is offensive and defensive at the same time has no equal in arena. If its an END game build.

    Cuz of the HP thing.

    Lifekeeper adds to the HP thing.

    Problem detected, salvation who knows.
    Zoltan likes this.
  15. Rhysingstar

    Rhysingstar Forum Ambassador

    I think that the last major expansion led to quite a bit of unintended issues. A huge boost in hp and dmg being the most obvious.

    The main complaints are still based on the small percentage of OP players and their skills or stats. Despite the claims, this doesn't represent everyone. Not every 1h or 2h DK is OP, not every Ranger is OP, not every SW is OP and not every SM is OP.

    Funny how I never see any threads complaining about 1h DK's regeneration when it they are needed to tank a boss.

    The solution is obvious. Separate pvp from pve, but they will not do that.

    All the developers know how to do is nerf and it is completely sad that some players do nothing else but encourage them to do that over and over again. Have we not had enough players quit the game already?
  16. sebastian_fl

    sebastian_fl Count Count

    I got tired of those circles... :) didn't complete it last year, but now have a handicap)

    I agree with pretty much everything you have said.

    Having said that, the reason I started about the lifekeeper was the fact they work on it, not realizing the consequences. Regen is an issue for sure. But lifekeeper is too. I disagree with the whole concept of healing by receiving damage. I disagree with the whole concept of having an item that makes 50% skills useless. In a fight with that tank we both know, I can use ice to slown him down, followed by some fire combos. With lifekeeper, it's impossible.

    I agree it is an investment, lots of drakens, cores etc. But it is there, and sooner or later people will get there. A least those you and me know. And there are plenty of them and they are the only people I get paired with.

    Lifekeeper was huge mistake back then. It was obvious. Now, instead of fixing it in a roots, they add to it.

    As for the premium set, I got it all 5/5 t5 with gold lines already. While the bonus of 50% sounds good on paper, it just adds to other % before it applies. So with the base of 60k and +155% (amulet, helmet, talent) you now have 153k hp. With that 50% extra you would only get 183k - 30k total. And you gonna lose all the beauties of the other left side possible items. Cube items are okay, maybe decent, but there are stronger options in every slot. Bloodmoon ring for instance is a much better ring as it gives extra bonus HP, counted in a base before the %. Dragonache is pretty good too in terms of offence. And lifekeeper alone will give you those extra 30k hp with regen, so 1 item instead of whole set. And then you can have q3, dragonache, Sigi etc all at the same time. Not with the cube set though.

    I didn't update my simulator of items to lvl55 items yet, but I will and will know for sure.

    So, bottom line, the PVP is broken at the end game, and this release adds on top, instead of slowing down to think twice.

    I know at least 5 DKs going the new lifekeeper route. And they were immortal without it. Now it means no PVP for me.

    Will see what they come up with. But I really hope they rework the concept so even if some complete low level mob attacks a lifekeeper equipped tank - he deals at least some damage, even if close to none, but doesn't heal. And finally, I hope they start looking into individual 1v1 balancing at various levels, be it newbies with no gems, avg, or the end game. I do agree with guys that at lower level DK might be having their own issues, but this thread isn't about any of them. Neither it is about the 2handed you_vs_me), though I think you would have good chances. I've seen some ridiculous 2h setups out there, with some defense focus to survive the burst) I do like the concept of less healing towards the end of the match e.g. healing % of current hp taking into account volumes of damage received. So at the beginning, tank has maximum HP and so healing, but there is a way for a mage to approach it - more hp mage takes for DK, less and less healing tank gets. Original healing is high to help covering the melee thing, but later - no more excuses, tank had plenty of time to get engaged and follow opponent. That will also help with running chickens, and the 5v5 flag bearers. You met olafko, didn't you?) There is no way any mage you know can take a flag from him, unless they have tons of time for it. Archer, yes. Mage - no, never.

    Alright, thanks for your comment. At least someone put a well thought comment in here recognizing things are broken. See you mañana.

    No one claims it represents everyone. It could be even just 5% or whatever. But the problem is there, the problem is at the end game - where everyone is going. Slow, fast, but we all are going there. And potential of the problem is even worse than what we can see already. Soon will have 200k tanks. And if they don't fix the whole concept of regeneration by doing nothing but just having an item, it's not going in a right direction.

    As a side note, I do agree at the 50k hp level tanks might be vulnerable to equal mages, as it is pretty much a few hits game and 50k hp with low block/armor might be not enough to cover the distance to a glass canon mage. If the issue exists, you guys should bring it up like I did. Do some minimal math, explain yourself. In a separate thread please) cheers.
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017
  17. Demon

    Demon Forum Mogul

    I have read the entire topic now.
    You dont get my point i don't get your point.So i will try to make you understand my point, first time i have read fast your suggestion and did not notice you are talking about 1h build comparison there, that is why i was talking about 20k dmg on 2h not 1h.
    First impression has - uh is a guy that complain about the fact that he cant kill a DK and this is nonsense we all know that SW are the best in arena now, so what he want more? Oh to destroy my tank weapon that has been already nerfed twice they just make that craftable to have some damage for my other regeneration skill.
    So i will try to.make you understand that we work twice more on DK than all classes and you are already OP in arena so what you want from us ? To not retaliate here in forum or in arena?

    So if you like to read, you have my observations:

    A) I dont like people that complain about other classes so that BP to nerf them, i think this show us what type of players they are and this is relevant in this topic because all arguments are based on your assumption that you are a old mature player with knowledge of every class.(is not offtopic) I usually consider them worst kind of players they know the game they pay the game but they don't have the the knowledge and imagination to get better builds or to make suggestion to improve the class, they just pay so is more easy for them to throw with mud in other class instead getting knowledge and test builds to get better.
    B). You don't understand the basic difference between classes you evolve so much(based on money) and you forgot the first screen where you make your character where you have short description with strength and weakness of all classes.(or is in web page) Now you want to make a comparison between a melee class and a range class and you try to convince other players that you are right and your complains are justified. The real problem is that the major difference between 2 character like this is that melee - range thing that you try to pass and the fact that DK must work twice harder that your class so even if it will have a little more regen it is justify from his hard work. I have all my answers to your suggestion based on that difference between this two type of classes because is essential. So a DK to fight one vs on with a range class he must have something to deal with all range skills that come from enemy and that is regeneration, is not an issue is not a problem is just his way to deal with enemy in his melee way. He need to get close on enemy to hit him not like a range class that need to maintain the distance, and this time while he try to get close to his enemy he get shoot, stunned and his life has to suffer so this is time when regeneration do his job. Now the problem was that Dk could not make a build to maintain the regen value and also give some damage and was easy for you to kill a big thing in arena when he has no damage. The problem was when they make that 1h hamer to be craftable and that is a big issue that this big noob will have some damage to deal with you and you want to eliminate this from the start because you want to maintain the highest score in group at range classes like was before.
    So i understand that and i think that DK will be more competitive in arena with that hammer but please don't forget about the fact that you are range class so if a DK can reach you it means that you doing it wrong not the fact that he is OP in fact it was under power and now they give him the tool to be competitive .
    I have use some time that karabosa axe crafted and was not good because i miss my regen so i could kill some players but instead i die more often and i understand that without regen DK is weak in arena he cant compete with range classes.
    So they can take my regen if they give me range skills so i can hit and run like you also to give you the tanky builds to force you make 2 build like us and after that we can talk about the mage vs DK and the unfair regen.

    C. I will reply to your childish answers:

    C1 your first answer - "Blah-blah. 20k of what, pro?)"" - now this answer show me that you are a kid or young man that he cant debate a post he just try to find something wrong there so that he can make your post look bad - and you found my mistake and ignore the rest of my answer on your suggestion.
    Now we have determined what type of player are you we understand that you have a childish mind and that way we establish that your arguments are not solid or reliable.

    C2 The last answers - to my second post.
    1. You try to.make us believe that you are grand marshal and this should tell us that you are experienced player and this is wrong argument because if you spend 10k euros and copy some builds from youtube you can be grand marshal without having so many knowledge about the game so your point was not valid and your answer was just a copy paste generic answer from forum that has no application here.You answer on point 1 has no connection with what i sed.Also my answer was on topic, - this topic relies on arguments of experienced players or connoisseurs because establish the credibility of that player and his experience so i just make a statement about our knowledge and you did not even understand that.(maybe was my bad english)
    2. Again i make a statement about your complaining skills that made good job for that Rangers nerf and again i want to establish what type.of player are you so that we can trust your arguments or not because this is all about in this discussion ho has the best and reliable arguments.
    3. I guess that was the reason why you complain here the fact that you get some nice dk in arena and you want to kill them without using your class way to handle- like hit and run.Ok ? so the reason why you post this nonsense suggestion of nerf is your lack of desire to use your SW in the way it was intended by his maker.
    4. Yes for my tank build is a nerf.Maybe is balance in arena but for tanking purpose is a big nerf if i think about the new infernal 10 update.
    5. Two way of two different class to remain viable in arena if they take our regen they should take your mana regen too so that you cant have so much damage output on your fireballs because we can't regen as much to counter that much damage.Simple.
    6. So you don't care about the fact that is possible 50% of Dk to quit the game because your suggestion - your suggestion based on the fact that you find hard to kill a DK .Also 50% means half and you have 50% remain to kill - maybe is hard for you to do the math.
    7. The topic suggestion is to nerf an item that is the most used weapon in tank builds and has regen properties.If they nerf this again for the third time i think is a good reason for many DK that has just reach a build to tank in inf 1 to quit the game.So here you are offtopic on your topic if you are not capable to understand what consequence your suggestion can have if it will be implemented.
    8. You already win with your 2h builds and now you want to win with your 1h too. You have 0% chance to win if you don't use your character properly and 50% if you play in a smart way, is not first time when i see players doing this. If you like to do it the right way you need to put all on offensive and movement speed, if you try to put stamina you will loose and this is the problem of some players they forget about the native bonuses and weakness of their class.Again i tell you dont try to compare grapes with apples.
    9. For me that lifekeeper is the way i farm my 2h build is a direct connection for me so nerfing my weapon it will have some big impact on my 2 builds and in this tread we need to talk about this aspects too.i know you are young and you cant see the big pictures but you should try.So if they took 4% regen percent they should give me something back to recover that and that crafting added can grow my damage so that i can relay on my swing to recover some life from that 4% nerf.
    10. Is on topic , because you need to play that class if you make suggestion to nerf an essential item in his tank build, that will have some repercussions on his place in grups.And also if you think is op you can make one and have fun - you will find out that is no fun and is so hard to make one.After that maybe you will change your mind.I agree with your 50% win chance for everyone but the fact that you make suggestion against other classes instead of your own class that you know better is a bad idea.You sed that you own or you have played a Dk so maybe you need to revive him.
    11. Is relevant because we need to make different builds not like you (and that builds are made with that lifekeeper that you sugest to be nerfed).One build is for damage and one for stamina so they are totally different not like yours based on crit and damage with small insertion of life.You need to understand that we dont do builds like you just for fun we need to do them and we craft almost all types of enchantments and we struggle with full inventory and lack of gold and so on.But how to know all of that if you don't have a war as main class.
    12. Topic is that one class that can be equip much easier that Dk complain about the fact that with new change they can beat the cr--p of him because it will become damage dealer too instead of being a big box bag.Is like you complain about the fact that a man that works two shifts has more money than you (and in this case he does not). Now about the "nonsense" word i think you have no idea what you need to do as a DK so let me enlight you. As a DK you need to make switches between builds so you farm gold for crafting with your 2h build and yo farm your unique from higher rank and crafting mats with your tank build.Your tank build is eligible for fam groups but with your 2h build no one will take you in group because you cant put all on damage you need to keep some stamina because you hit from close distance and you can die faster than any class.So everything DK make is bound with that life keeper and that make all my statements on topic.
    13. So in your opinion we have infinite rage and as you can see you have infinite mana and even if you dont have, you can spam so many fireballs and this is relevant as damage output of each class if you want to make 1v1 review or camparison.So again is on topic dont try to exclude thinghs that can grow your so called 0% chance.
    14. Life regen runes are on topic as long you complain about regeneration of Dk and also you need to be aware that he was already nerf in arena. Regen is the DK way to deal with your range skills so it was the only one true affected class by this nerf.Is like your evasion skills have been nerfed.
    In other words everything DK does has strong connection with life-keeper and in my opinion all that i sed is on topic.

    "I have posted clear explanation of an issue yet to receive a single valid argument from all you UberExperiencedDKs" -
    I think you need to start a DK and get more experienced than us.

    "If you have so much experience, tell me how to defeat new lifekeeper equipped DK with 150k+ hp, 12k dmg, 80% crit, +200% crit dmg, 80/70 block, 80/70 resist, 60% running speed assuming Mage with equal stats (but 30% less hp). How? You don't know, ofc. I will tell you - impossible.""

    Come with me in arena and you will see how, maybe you need to learn some tricks so that you wont need to complain here anymore.Maybe your fingers have some trouble hitting the keyboard or maybe your strong character make you lazy.
    Anyway i almost have those stats and i die in arena very often if they know what they doing so is not a mage/class issue is just a person issue.

    I hope this will make you understand somehow my position about your suggestion and not only.
    No further reply is necessary since i'm sure you cant understand things from DK perspective.
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017
    iNeXoRaBlE likes this.
  18. Mesala

    Mesala Advanced

    Demon, we are talking about END game builds, your C2, number 12 talks about switching builds.
    An END game 2-hand warrior build can farm alone, its the best farming class in the game. 2 2-hand warriors represent the best farming group inside Drakensang. Those are builds that have 26-29k dmg, over 2,10 speed attack, 60k HP, 73+ armor, 70+ resistance. Trust me, there is no need to have 1-hand tank build when you have that kind of a build.

    The problem with a tank, 1-hand pvp tank is that when you get to a certain point in the END game builds, its pretty much impossible to kill him. I am pretty sure you have seen some 6vs6, 5vs5 play when that kind of tank has scores like 15:1, or 20:2. In 1vs1 situation its pretty much impossible to kill that kind of a tank because of the large amounts of HP regen.

    You can kill that kind of tank, if he falls asleep during the match, if he miscalculates something, gets caught up with the q7 set while waiting on cooldowns etc. But the probability is that in 99% matches you will lose against 150k HP, 10k dmg, 250% crit dmg, 75-80ish% build.

    And Lifekeeper weapon tier 5, has 414 max damage if I am not mistaken. You have lower speed with it, critical can be adjusted, but more dmg then an axe.

    If you put a tier5 Lifekeeper mace on a 150k HP tank, that 99% win turns into 100%. No question about it.
    When I say a 150HP tank, that tank mostly has a very good number of runes, some 247 HP gems, 250 resistance gems on belt, maxed out dmg 60 gems, crit 600 gems.

    The tank I know, if he had all of the above mentioned to max, will have probably 160-170k HP, I have seen that build. Sebastian has also seen that build. I can make that build too.

    Keep in mind we talk about end-gamers, not an average Joe.

    But that is my opinion, in no way it represents everyone elses opinions. Its just based on what I see around in the game. You can disagree with it or agree with it.

    I invite any staff member to make that build on their test server and try play pvp matches with it. Input the lifekeeper maxed out stats and play in the arena.
    semen470 likes this.
  19. sebastian_fl

    sebastian_fl Count Count


    I do appreciate all the effort, but please do not bring irrelevant things over here and focus on what is stated in the topic. If we start talking about rangers, children etc, it's gonna be a junk thread. You, an adult, should understand that.

    You seem to read but you still do not understand. This thread is not about me, you, Joe average, whoever specific. This thread is mathematical proof of impossibility to kill end game DK with end game mage. No need to go personal here. Those lifekeeper balanced off/def DK don't exist yet.

    So again, with r202, end game DK with the stats I mentioned above and new lifekeeper would regen so much over the course of the fight, that no equal 1 handed mage can overcome. Not even close. Again, not just me (ofc as I'm kid), but noone.

    You throw some ridiculous arguments over here. For example -
    You here how it sounds? It sounds like since DK (supposedly) had to work harder he needs to be stronger than the same stats mage. First of all I completely disagree with the fact that making DK is harder, DK is my first character. It as easy as it can get. Secondly, the statement is a nonsense, it says you find it fair one class cannot be better or even equal because whole class didn't work strong enough.

    Yet another ridiculous argument is infinite mana. What does it have to do with 'new lifekeeper'? Why do you even talk about it? And how are mages supposed to get mana if they had it zero?)

    Another one about mages being OP. Nonsense. DK are the strongest chars. But this whole he said she said makes no sense, it is irrelevant and not worth wasted time.

    I did not suggest to nerf existing weapon. Everyone who has it, still has it. I suggested to think twice before bringing completely new item - craftable lifekeeper. Aren't you really seeing this? Are you reading? How does addition or delay of new item affect existing PvE builds? This is irrelevant. We don't even need to discuss this and waste own time.

    You also spend good portion of your comment making me a child. What an adult way of debate. The reason you saw my 'childish' reply was obviously your very first comment, which you have thrown at us without reading anything, as you said yourself.

    Even if I was a child, please show some respect and value the opinion of others.

    Please bring some mathematical arguments. Not about archers, not about 2handed players, but about hypothetical end game DK and Mage with equal stats. Mathematics makes everyone equal, children and adults, even aliens. Even if a child has posted mathematically accurate statement, you cannot debate the statement because of an age of the poster. So if you really want to have a conversation, l imagine there (possible) is an issue and try to elaborate it following my approach.

    You spent so much time replying to the comment, yet you only start answering the question at the very end, and didn't answer. All you said - come will show you.

    Do you really think I, child with broken fingers, want to have a conversation with an adult who cannot stay on topic? If you didn't notice, I have said many times this post is not about me being grandmarshal, not you, it's about hypothetical players. Yet you continue to show me a silly child.

    On DK. I do understand a concept of melee and it's need for regen as it tanks and get hits from mobs. It's easy. I do not understand the concept of healing-by-receiving damage though. This is absurd. Tanks already have regen for using a skill, regen for hitting with dragon skin, regen for mighty wild swing. Also regen for having an item=regen for doing nothing. And now regen for receiving damage. Anyway, let's leave it here. You tanks need some candies in PvE, and in PVP.

    But how to beat that tank with all those candies with a class Mage? Mage doesn't have EA-like skills to hit an run. Mage needs to be constantly hitting=standing. I calculated above how many fireball hits mage requires. 1 per second is not enough. Can you imagine 1 per second? Have you ever seen any 1handed mage doing that?))

    So you read, you write, but we are not getting closer. You focus on some nonsense instead of the topic. If you put as much 3ffort into the topic, I would be delighted, everyone would. It would be a nice use of your time, my time, and even mod's time, if they are reading this.

    not only I have the knowledge and imagination, I'm perhaps the only player in the whole game across all servers who has a handwritten application to analyse all millions of combinations of items, gems, crafts etc. So I do know the best builds.

    #11. Builds we make is a personal choice. I also do 'stamina' builds to fight with DK. But it is irrelevant. It doesn't matter how hard it is to become immortal. There should be no way to become immortal in the first place.

    #12. Why you keep saying DK makes two shifts. Mage makes many builds two. I have many. I have crafted 7 torsos, 8 rings, 6 helmets, multiple other items. I have two separate 2handed builds, quite a few 1handed. But it's not about me or that whatever specific DK. It's about both DK and Mage who worked hard on similar setup. They got that setup, and now they are on arena. And on of them has zero chances.

    And your #13. I do not have infinite mana. I do not spam fireballs, I can only 'spam' 4 of them. Mages cannot spam fireballs in 1handed mode. Not sure why do you bring bugs into conversation, but that one was fixed long time ago and it didn't affect PVP at all. And, finally, will post you a screenshot, after a short break.

    [Here the screenshot goes]

    This is a screenshot of my report of the bug you mentioned long time before it appeared on the forum, 6 months before it did. I play fair.

    Dear mods, please do not consider a discosure of communication with support. No communication from support is shown, this is just a bug report, it's very old and already fixed. Thank you)

    [image removed]
    Upd. Here was an image proving I did report that bug 6 months before someone posted the thread you linked on the forum)

    Okay man. I will stop here. I would like to conter and argumemt but i dont see an argument :) If you consider writing, please be conversational and post on topic which is

    Upcoming craftable lifekeeper gonna destroy everything left of balance

    Appreciate your time and effort. cheers.
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017
    EhtovK and semen470 like this.


    One could say that's exactly what they've already done and it is exactly why it made it into the game like that #lifekeeperWasAnInsideJob xd

    I remember the time when lifekeeper was released in its first version. I and some others (in the german forum) had a very similar topic to this one running, where we showed (mathematically and in practice) how imbalanced and way too powerful this weapon is (back then it regenerated 2% and even on dot-ticks) and we got flamed and hated by the dk community, more or less everybody stating we are exaggerating and don't know how to play our chars properly. As it turned out, we were right and a few weeks later every mid to strong dk was using it in for pvp, because it increased one's ehp by a huge factor.
    It got nerfed later, because at the end even some dks agreed that it was too strong and eventually even the devs recognized the opness.

    Time will tell if we are right here again, i'm pretty sure we are.
    I'm just gonna wait now for the promised optimization on pvp and changes in the talent + skills before i will spend more time arguing about balancing.
    EhtovK likes this.
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