Feedback Feedback New SkillSystem (R155)

Hello Heroes,

As announced here, we need your feedback!

General
1.What are your overall impressions?
2.How intuitive is the new system? Easy to understand, or too complicated?
3.Do you prefer the new system to the old system?

Balancing
4.Do the prices for talents seem fair and balanced? Too low? Too high?
5.Is it alright that sometimes you will have a talent point you can’t spend until you gain another level?
6.Does your favorite class feel more or less powerful?

Playability
7.What do you think of the new skill for your favorite class?
8.Do you need a lot of consideration to decide between talents because they are equally useful or do you find it easy to choose between talents because some of them are obviously more powerful and more important than others?

Customization
9.Does the new system gives you enough freedom to customize your character and play style or do you feel limited in your choice?
​

Thank you,
CMs Greg, Haruki and the DSO Moderation Team

 

In my opinion , new animation mobs are more graphic designed like cartoon characters. We lost a choice in skills and fame (visual). Complicate , old system is better . Other answer I will write when collect more impressions.

 

General
1.Generally speaking, good.
2.Complex enough to be fun but not to be confusing.
3.Definitely.

Balancing
4.They appear too high for medium-high lvl characters that can have more than 8 skills in constant use. Slightly reducing the cost or giving "double" points at specific lvl intervals (e.g. 2 points for a single lvl increase every 10 lvls) can easily remedy that.
5.Yes, that is a matter of choice. Different configurations can make use of all points anyway.
6.Far less powerful. As a DK, there have been two significant changes that severely hurt the class. First, the critical hit chance has been nerfed greatly. DK's do not have books or quivers, so you are either forced to use an axe for a small increase or you need to give up other stats in order to use items that enhance your critical hit rate. The end result is that you either end up with much lower defensive stats and or DMG, or you will never have a reasonable critical hit rate. Second, the whole point of having a DK was that you may have a disadvantage at long range but you can topple the scales if you manage to get close. OK, others can buy movement speed gems and still elude most DKs, but at least you have a chance. The ability to deal a lot of damage in short range or to take a lot of damage were the only things that made the DK appealing. Now, not only the critical rate and overall damage of a DK has been lowered and the block rates have been nerfed, but the damage of every other class increased, manyfold as far as 2-handed weapons are concerned! Currently, a powerful mage can cause 3-4K DMG with a single fireball, using a single handed rod, and I have over 2000 fire resistance (!!). With the +150% weapon DMG and +50% talent WDMG increase, even mediocre SWs will be easily killing DK's (and everyone else) from afar with a single fireball hit. Surviving a +750% DMG destruction spell will be entirely impossible. Also, with the inability to break stuns using the Dragon Skin and the removal of the 4 second stun immunity, DKs not only lost their only advantage in 5v5, but grabbing a flag turned into a handicap as the DK is the only class that virtually cannot fight while holding the flag. Not only that makes DK's useless for PvP but unappealing for PvE as well, since tanking boss monsters when everyone else has much more DMG than you is not possible either. At the same time, advantages of other classes have been enhanced instead of nerfed. For example, it is impossible to stop a Dwarf once they grab a flag and go into Iron Dwarf mode, with the Dwarf able to run all the way back to the base unobstructed. Not only that advantage remains but the terrible increase with 2H weapons allows the Dwarf to kill a tank that stands on the flag with a single heavy shot.

Playability
7.It will only be really good if it works on boss monsters, allowing me to hold the boss on me when other damage dealers attack the boss. Small mobs, well, not so much. Small mobs were never a threat to a DK, with good armor and constant sweeping you can heal yourself while cleaving everything around you. Adding more DMG just makes it a little faster but it is not anything special.
8.There are instances where some talents are of critical importance, such as the jump skill and the stun breakers, but others depend on the preferences of the player.
Customization
9.It gives me a lot more freedom than before. I am glad about that. There is no such thing as "unlimited freedom" anyway.

 

1.What are your overall impressions?

As most have mentioned there are many good things with the new maps/monsters, but leveling up will be incredibly easy basically taking us back to where we are now, farming hod.

Until this goes live and we get to play the new system with our current characters all of this is speculation. Just how much are characters gain and how much they lose will determine just how good this update is.

2.How intuitive is the new system? Easy to understand, or too complicated?

Not too complicated and allows for some personal customization, overall I think that this could be a good thing.

3.Do you prefer the new system to the old system?

The new system has more options and that is always a good thing.

4.Do the prices for talents seem fair and balanced? Too low? Too high?

For end users it is bordering on too high, but not a game killer.

5.Is it alright that sometimes you will have a talent point you can’t spend until you gain another level?

Yes. Their are talents that should be linked to level progression.

6.Does your favorite class feel more or less powerful?

Again this is where everyone is in agreement.

Rangers love the new updates.
Spellweavers are not liking it.
DragonKnights are not liking it.
Steam Mechanics (not enough commenting to see whether they like it or not)

Instead of boosting every class and bringing more options to the current character, certain classes were heavily nerfed (some more than others) and taking something away that you've worked for will never encourage people very much.

Most players spent a ton of time (and some spent a lot of money) to build the strongest character they could. To have that taken away creates hard feelings.

I honestly don't know what inspired taking away the previous benefits of the fame points that so many worked so hard was for. That one seems to be the biggest source of hard feelings and will probably continue to get worse once this new update is complete and everyone finds out what has happened.

7.What do you think of the new skill for your favorite class?

Really won't be able to comment until this hits the live servers and can be tested with actual character.

8.Do you need a lot of consideration to decide between talents because they are equally useful or do you find it easy to choose between talents because some of them are obviously more powerful and more important than others?

This is another part that needs to be determined with actual character on the live server. There are some skills that are no brainer choices and some that will be dependent on what a player likes.

9.Does the new system gives you enough freedom to customize your character and play style or do you feel limited in your choice?

Now this part is a very good thing and will allow players options.

 

Hi, I'm an old veteran player that quit DSO a while ago.
I'm a top tiered pvper and experienced player that is attracted by the new skill system. I play all four classes but mainly dwarf and ranger. My friend who is a main dragonknight also gave me his opinions to post along with this post. We are both very skilled PVPers that experienced endgame PVP even vs those with max sacred/royal. I read the comments and found out that there were MANY comments that were made without running through many aspects of the game first.

General
1.What are your overall impressions?
The new skill system is much more interesting for people who enjoy using their minds to create an unique yet powerful build. This skill system is much more captivating for people like me and I certainly enjoy thinking about the different possible builds.

2.How intuitive is the new system? Easy to understand, or too complicated?
Easy
3.Do you prefer the new system to the old system?
New

Balancing
4.Do the prices for talents seem fair and balanced? Too low? Too high?
generally balanced, but a tiny bit too high. (not that many talent selected in the end = might consider giving out 2 talent points at every level with multiples of 10 (10,20,30,40,50) or something).
5.Is it alright that sometimes you will have a talent point you can’t spend until you gain another level?
Yeah, why not.
6.Does your favorite class feel more or less powerful?
Dragonknights: Same
Rangers: Same
SW: weaker (though might not be since I don't have a 50 SW (look at some things that weren't considered section for IMPORTANT information)
Dwarf: stronger

Playability
7.What do you think of the new skill for your favorite class?
Dragonknights: Thank god there is finally an aggro system
Rangers: Very cool. High dmg costlier precision that doesn't pierce.
SW: Interesting skill that would be nice if used well.
Dwarf: Looks like a good turret although haven't tested dmg out.

8.Do you need a lot of consideration to decide between talents because they are equally useful or do you find it easy to choose between talents because some of them are obviously more powerful and more important than others?
Some are obviously more (MUCH MORE) powerful than the others. Although, there is still a variety, some talents are literally useless.

Customization
9.Does the new system gives you enough freedom to customize your character and play style or do you feel limited in your choice?
definitely more than the old one! You guys also gave more freedom for PVEers! I don't dislike this even though I play to PVP.



Some things that weren't considered: (VERY IMPORTANT TO READ)
1. SW turning weaker: Although it may seem this way, we have to think about the game mechanics carefully. Resistance is harder to earn especially for none payers when we consider resistance vs armor. At level 50, we won't have much more resistance from our equip because people generally have armor on them instead. (Shield only gives armor and base stat= more armor) SWs hit mostly magic dmg and people will have higher base damage at level 50. With resistance not increasing (because I doubt you'll suddenly upgrade your gems to sacred or royal just because you are 50) SWs will hit more compared with other classes that scale to physical damage reduction from armor. Staffs will turn more common among players.

2. Rangers OP?: Rangers have increased dmg in their old exp tree. Please do remember that rangers, after the new patch, will have a 25% less damage on ALL skills because they no longer possess the 25% dmg increase from short/long bow. Therefore, they will get a huge hit on damage. Explosive arrow, with its huge concentration cost, will not be OP. Longbows still remains weak on stats so there is nothing to complain about (a few more dmg than shortbow but 0.83 atk speed compared with 1.05 is just a joke). Furthermore, rangers are pretty much impaired after adrenaline with that 40% decrease dmg. What does all these mean? A shortbow with fast attack speed thats able to mark and explosive arrow spams concentration fast and has the ability to deal double dmg once and possibly armor break but will have reduced dmg compared to old patch. This is because rangers lose an overall 25% damage. Correct me if I am wrong, the knowledge tree talent for 50% increase dmg 10% reduced speed is only for longbows. If it is then my statement holds. If it isn't then something needs to get changed. The talent makes longbows useful but not OP. For those of you that never tried playing a damn longbow ranger at endgame PVP stop complaining. You will rarely get a mark + shot off with that reduced atk speed from talent. Therefore, longbow rangers with talent will be a high hitting class but will not get the benefits of marking and will not get the 2nd explosion after armor break if opponent is fairly skilled.

3. Dragonknights: Dragonknights will finally be more balanced. DKs have either a HUGE ton of increased 2h dmg in their old exp tree or improved block rate. They can still run around the 3v3 map but will regen less. Note: DKs can use new skill to regen 10% hp with rage during exhaustion. Why? They get free rage from exhaustion. This is a key point that even experienced players might forget. The 40% increased dmg from exp tree on old DKs is what makes 2 hands absolutely ridiculous (honestly, everyone sees more DK videos of solo mortis run than the rest of the class combined, oh and you can even do it with blue ess!). With the new patch, everyone can get the same buff (50% dmg increase 10% atk speed decrease). Dragonknights are still very strong if you read things and think carefully. They have 2 debuff moves (like ranger and SW) AND an immunity from dragon hide with new chasing combo (rageful swing+charge). Class balance will have to be on live server to feel the real difference.

4. Dwarfs: thank god this class might be a bit more playable in things other than running flags. I absolutely love dwarfs as they are really fun. However, they really did suck in high tier PVP.

Short Summary:
SWs hit more than we think.
rangers hit less than we think.
DKs feels a bit more balanced and nice with an actual aggro generation move.
Dwarfs finally get a buff.
staff, longbow, 2h dwarf weapons will turn ubiquitous

 

I like your feedback almost like it is mine.
However I will need to make some correction on above quote.
It is for all rangers longbows+shorbows. Every skill is for all rangers. I have tested it and it is as it says in the description:



Furthermore there is no restriction only for longbow or shortbow users both get same penalty no matter if they are using quiver or shield.
One example is the Juggernaut skill which is now called Behemoth (if if the translation is correct) https://board-en.drakensang.com/threads/new-wisdom-talents.67574/page-2#post-628460

 

note: Patch number in test server is 155_8 when writing this feedback

General
1.What are your overall impressions?
- First impression was that you didn't do much new.. just chopped old skills into smaller pieces and limited the choices a lot by giving little points to use.

2.How intuitive is the new system? Easy to understand, or too complicated?
- It is not that complicated to understand

3.Do you prefer the new system to the old system?
-in a way the new system feels better it just is too much limited and unbalanced now.

Balancing
4.Do the prices for talents seem fair and balanced? Too low? Too high?
-Prices are alright we just need few extra points that everytime we make specific tree for some duty we can take the "must skills" and then have little freedom to varie the set. now it's like we can only choose the "must skills" and take little lesser must skills and we cannot really varie a lot because other skills are just better to choose.

5.Is it alright that sometimes you will have a talent point you can’t spend until you gain another level?
-This is ok.

6.Does your favorite class feel more or less powerful?
-i haven't tested 45lv character(from my favorite class = SW) in test server but i have feeling it is less powerful. maybe because the crit chances have lowered and you really have chanced the way i have used to play.

Playability
7.What do you think of the new skill for your favorite class?
-It is totally useless.. slow hovering ball, small damage, doesnt freeze, small radius... i just cannot find this useful in anywhere, sorry.

8.Do you need a lot of consideration to decide between talents because they are equally useful or do you find it easy to choose between talents because some of them are obviously more powerful and more important than others?
-Like i said there is "must chooses" which you are forced to take and after that many times you have just handful of points what you but in spots thats most useful in your opinion.

Customization
9.Does the new system gives you enough freedom to customize your character and play style or do you feel limited in your choice?
-I feel very limited.​

Chances i would do:
-Like in every other tree i have given feedback i would give 20 more point (max point would then be 70) to this tree too and i would give them that 1-30lv would give 1 point per level and 31-50 would give 2 points per level. this way players could get 70/140 = 50% from overall.

Class skill balancing/ class specific feedback
SM:
-I really liked that sm's now have shot that regen steam it really helps a lot. the new skill for sm is really good in PvE and it really makes the sm more powerful in 5vs5 which is good. if i would have chance something i still would either a) decrease the animation of heavy shot 25-33% so it would be equal to smash/fireball/Precision Shot or at least close to that or b) i would make bomb to explode right after it touches enemy but then i would limited it by giving it a steam cost.
all so note pretty useless skills: oil slick, bomb, dwarf in a box

SW:
-SW's are in pretty good balance at least if we would get that 20 point more. Healing is nice but it's in wrong skill i would prefer put it in place of synchronicity (singularitys 5 point upgrade) so that it would heal 1% of max life per sec of sw's and all his team members that stand inside singularity rather than decreases cooldown. this way SW's could defend they tanks in pve or pvp.
and the magic shot upgrade 5 (where healing is now) i would give splash effect for magic shot that it shatters on hit making 33% dmg for everyone in 1.5m-2m radius from impact. and i would totally do something for that new skill... i just dont know what.... it's so totally useless now

DK:
-Im not sure where DK's are right now... i have a feeling that they have been nerfed but some of them were all most invincible at the moment so im not sure how bad this affects to them. the new skills has some cool effects like getting the aggro. But the main effect the A-speed buff im not sure... it just doesnt feel like very dk-ish buff. and im not sure how badass skill that hp-regen is in pvp(or pve) but i would still leaved it like it is now.

RA:
-Rangers are the big winners at the moment and they havent been so bad even now so i feel like they should be balanced a little bit. New skill is very cool and good but i would balance it. i would remove the double dmg when marked and i would set 3-5s cooldown to this skill. but on the otherhand that it wouldnt go too weak i would make that it would armor break all who is in range of exploding(now only marked enemies suffer armor break) because it's too complicated to armor break in pve at the moment.
-net upgrade 5 recycling is too powerful in pvp, maybe 25% to 33% chance would be better.
-scatter shot upgrade 5 is too powerful in pvp, 25% to 33% chance would be better.
-PS upgrade 3 is too powerful in pvp, i would chance that it gives only one time 20% increased movement speed no matter you hit or not and it would give it only when your concentration is between 85%-100% when you fire the arrow.

-those were some nerfings so i would make that adrealine only lowers 20% damage (now it's 40%) and i would change the upgrade 5 that it would not give anymore running speed but it would remove the the damage nerfing from adrealine... and this just because i know all rangers love to use and do little tricks woth adrealine in pvp and now it is just totally ruined and useless skill with that -40% dmg.

thank you for reading my opinions and feedback
(i have tested all classes but best testing i did with ranger because i got 45lv RA)

 

Thank you very much and I am glad to see that you are still playing even though you play on a different server . I did not have that much time yesterday night for my last post as I was a bit busy. Now that I have more time to read through things, I would like to further elaborate on the changes of several new systems and how the will affect game play.

Please read important notes and changes in my thread here: https://board-en.drakensang.com/thr...155-very-important-comprehensive-guide.67665/

 

General
1.What are your overall impressions?
My overall impression is that this update will mke a lot of people quit. Including propably me. Warrior will lose everything. Dont these ''smart'' game designers remember, that warrior have to run the enemy down?
2.How intuitive is the new system? Easy to understand, or too complicated?
Easy to understand, it is.
3.Do you prefer the new system to the old system?
Old system. All day, any day.

Balancing
4.Do the prices for talents seem fair and balanced? Too low? Too high?
Some taalents are bit too low, includig the ranger op buff that makes arrows poison dmg. It makes us with low resist be killed over and over and over in pvp.
5.Is it alright that sometimes you will have a talent point you can’t spend until you gain another level?
Yes.
6.Does your favorite class feel more or less powerful?
To be honest i thinkn my favorite class (warrior) is unplayable. Completely and utterly unplayable.


Playability
7.What do you think of the new skill for your favorite class?
It's really bad.
8.Do you need a lot of consideration to decide between talents because they are equally useful or do you find it easy to choose between talents because some of them are obviously more powerful and more important than others?
I won't need very much considering over these skills. Some are op, some are more or less useless.

Customization
9.Does the new system gives you enough freedom to customize your character and play style or do you feel limited in your choice?
I only feel limited by the fact that my class has been nerfed down. A lot. That limits my gameplay by the fact that warrior after this update is so weak there's no point playin it.

 

Actually, I would like to take some of what I said back.

I have been playing with both a 45lvl DK and a 45lvl SW in the test server for a few hours the past couple of days. Actually, the game feels much more balanced than I originally assumed.

For DKs, the extended range of the sweeping strikes and the regeneration skills seem to be working very nicely, as are the jump/charge skills, giving a DK very good mobility. I also like what was done with the three weapon classes (axes, maces and swords). It makes things far more interesting and adjustable.

For SWs, the use of 2 handed weapons increases their base DMG terribly but it is very difficult to get a reasonable critical rate. On the other hand, continues/combined ice-based attacks are excellent for those who like speed, or max DMG can be very high for those that play in "glass cannon" mode.

What worries me is that high level players will still be able to kill others with 1-2 hits, especially when they land a critical hit. That makes arena annoying sometimes. I wonder if reducing the damage all players can do to each other a lot, such as down to 30-35%, would lead to more interest fights.

Finally, Onyx gems currently are entirely useless I'm afraid. They would be far more useful if they could add a small percentage directly to the critical chance rather than points, as their current points are all but useless. A lvl50 character needs more than 3000 points to reach a reasonable critical rate and polished Onyx gems, after the upgrade, give only 120 each, which is less than +1.4% chance.

 

General
1.What are your overall impressions?
Rangers will Love this where as other classes might want the old system back.
2.How intuitive is the new system? Easy to understand, or too complicated?
It is extremely easy if you know German...
3.Do you prefer the new system to the old system?
I am not a Ranger so I like the old system better.
Balancing
4.Do the prices for talents seem fair and balanced? Too low? Too high?
Some are higher than they should. I think you need a few 1 point items but...
5.Is it alright that sometimes you will have a talent point you can’t spend until you gain another level?
There is no reason to have that. Alot of people might get stuck and stop playing. Having at lease 1 item that is 1 point would fix this.
6.Does your favorite class feel more or less powerful?
Extremly less powerful. This would be the 2nd greatest nerf to mage since the greate chain lightning nerf only other nerf was the armor break nerf but that was not only mage...

Playability
7.What do you think of the new skill for your favorite class?
For the damage it is far over priced in mana.
8.Do you need a lot of consideration to decide between talents because they are equally useful or do you find it easy to choose between talents because some of them are obviously more powerful and more important than others?
No it was extremely easy to figure out what I was going to use.

Customization
9.Does the new system gives you enough freedom to customize your character and play style or do you feel limited in your choice?

For a Mage there are certain skill points that you gota use. Aside from that the other 10 to 5 points are only slightly customizable.

 

Absolutely agree with this .... imo... they're pretty much worthless .. its just like the crit pets ... if they actually added 5% to your crit ... not just crit value, then they would be worth having.

 

My thoughts exactly. Im not sure what that change means to Dwarf vs DK, DK vs Ranger etc, but it is a game changer for Ranger vs Mage. Ranger looks the winner of the release. And since I always felt similar rangers were stronger than mages, the change makes me really sad about the release, the game and the mage class. I supported the armor break for rangers and improving their PVE playability, but this will make them OP in this specific pair. Sad, really sad. Will try it on real chars, and will see. But looks like you guys are going to lose some big game funs, especially those Mage/DK focused.

 

With the new linear scale, the 5% pet is actually more predictable. It adds a 5% greater chance based on your current chance. If you have a 10% chance, the 5% pet will increase that by 5% of 10% or 0.5% for a total of 10.5%. If you had 40%, you'd go up to 42%. This is slightly better than when there is diminishing returns. There, the 5% regularly didn't improve your chances by more than 0.25%-0.5% even at moderate crit hit values.

 

The new linear scale part is confusing. I understand the fame tree still steps, with larger and larger fame required for each level. What's the scoop?

Also, how many new badges of honor are needed to go from fame level 40 to fame level 50? Or is fame level 55 possible?

 

I'm not talking about the skill trees, just crit. WRT the honor to get from 40-->50... who knows.

 

In the video there is a chart. On the right side of that chart is says 1-40 is ~1.9 mill. 40-50 is > 7 mill

 

Ranger

• Deadly Blow: Decreased skill damage from 100% to 80%
• Explosive Arrow: Increased concentration cost from 50 to 66
• The talent "Quick Death" now increases the attack speed of the player by 5% instead of 7%

I was expecting some nerfs for the Ranger, and I guess they were justified, for one exception:

Deadly Blow decreased from 100% to 80% is a big nerf. Too big I think. This is our only reliable skill and the most used skill in Boss runs and for Knights in M2. 160% instead of 200% (or 192 like it is now) is a big thing, considering the importance of that skill stated before.

I'm with you regarding the talent nerf from 7% to 5%, and the cost enhancement was important on Explosive Arrow, that skill was too OP otherwise. But leave Deadly Blow on 100% or at least 96 like it is now.

 

Why do you think 7% x3 speed should be nerfed? with the new 5x3, you rarely make it to the next breakpoint.

For example if I have 1.6 speed, then 5x3 will get me to the next breakpoint (1.74), but if I have 1.74, with 5x3 I won't reach the next breakpoint (1.91). Not to mention that for the higher speeds (2.73+), this skill is completelly useless.

Ok, maybe 66 concentration on the explosive arrow is somewhat acceptable, although I can't say I like it.
But I agree that the deadly blow should be increased back to 200%, otherwise it would nerf the entire class A LOT.
And also the speed bonus... I don't see why they would nerf from 7% to 5%, because it makes the speed bonus useless and only the low levels with low speeds would choose it.
At least if you make it 5%, make it stackable 4 times

 

I can guess the reasoning behind the nerf:
Since now deadly blow can be enhanced to give more attack speed, we should nerf its damage so that the overall DPS of deadly blow is similar to the old version.

Well guess what, who's gonna use deadly blow now? A smart ranger would invests his/her limited talent points on other, more worthwhile skills.
Developers, the least you can do is also decrease the essence cost by 1. The old version of deadly blow was not very essence-efficient to begin with and now you nerfed it even more.

With the new deadly blow i'd rather spam hunting arrows, which deal 66% POISON damage, and shorter skill delay (which means faster attacks than deadly blow), and only costs 1 essence, at boss fights.