Feedback New Knowledge Talents

SWs don't need kills for honor points ... they only need to spam those lightnings and they will ALWAYS get most of the honor points.
SWs don't need explosion to protect building the base ... they have singularity ... they have the guardian ... what do I have to protect 6 players building the base? I got one stupid tree which every time I run from the foes ... always gets in front of me (not behind me) and stopping me.
That is not a stupid concept ... that is the ONLY way how you can protect building a base.
BTW from now on any noob can debuff the rangers explosion because anyone can have those skills ... then we ask the question ... why would someone need forest vengeance anymore?

 

Now that we actually have to choose between more PvP damage/resistance and those death-triggered skills, who's gonna choose the forest vengeance? I'd rather have 10% more PvP damage so I can kill more or 10% PvP resistance so I die less.

For me, it's gonna be 25 points in both and 0 for the others.
Even the % honor passive is stupid. I'd rather invest points on damage/resistance so I have a greater chance of winning (win = more points than loss). So in a way, i'm investing points to gain more honor in the long run.

In my opinion, the developers need to change the % honor gain per point from 1% to 2.5% to make it a hard choice from choose PvP damage/resistance.

Also, shouldn't this discussion be in the new FAME talent thread?

--MERGED--

Okay, I've held it in long enough. I will say it.
This new wisdom point system offers a more dynamic system of building your character, but i'm afraid will completely destroy 5v5 as DKs and Dwarfs will dominate everyone else.

Here's why, and it's quite simple:
Players in 5v5 or Capture the Flag are usually divided into 2 categories.
1. In this one are players that specialize on killing other players (ie. offensive killing while trying to capture opponents' flag and defensive killing stopping opponents from capturing your flag.) I would say 80-90% of the players in 5v5 matches belong in this category.
2. In this second categories are players that specialize in capturing the flag. These players (usually) don't go for the kills, they go for the flag, thus specializing in speed and defense.

Now prior to r155 everyone was more or less equal in terms of speed boost from the PvP talent tree, gaining 15% movement speed. The only differences would otherwise come from gears and what not. Prior to r155 dwarfs were infamouse in 5v5 matches being able to ignore all stuns and still outrun everyone with a flag in iron dwarf mode. DKs were also quite good, being immune to stuns and gaining massive damage resistance with dragon hide while still carrying a flag.

Now comes r155. What happens? Everyone loses 15% movements speed, 30% HP, and 30% damage, and here's what will happen:
1. The player-killing players will most likely distribute their points into offensive wisdom talents to make up for the 30% damage. Heck they'll probably invest all of their points into offensive wisdom talents with the goal of becoming even more deadly. Nothing wrong with that right?

2. Now, since the flag-runners weren't going for the kills in the first place, they'll invest all their points into first, SPEED. How much speed will get they now? With 25 points, they will get 40% bonus speed. This means, compared to the player-killing players, the ones who can stop them, they will be moving 40% faster, assuming of course the player-killing players invested all into damage. With the rest of the 25 points, the flag-runners will of course invest in more HP and more blocking. These specialization will making them even more hard to catch than prior to r155, if not also hard to kill.

But then you can argue that the player-killing players can also invest in speed. With 25 points in speed they can be, at best, equal in speed to the flag-runners. But then they are sacrificing 25 points-worth of offensive power making them less efficient killers and therefore less efficient at stopping flag-runners.

To sum it up, if you think DKs and especially Dwarfs are hard to kill/catch prior to r155, just wait until after r155.... You get the picture.

Of course, after outlining what, in my opinion, is a major potential source of PvP imbalance with r155, I will propose some solutions.
I have to admit, it was hard coming up with solutions for this one and still be fair since DKs are Dwarfs are just going for what they do best in 5v5, flag-running.
1. A lot of you will hate me for this but you could make it so that the wisdom talents only apply to PvE just as fame talents only applies to PvP. You could give this a try if too many players becomes upset with 5v5 after r155.

2. I think you should redesign the 5v5 map to i) increase the distance between the 2 bases and 2) include a short-cut between the 2 bases that flag-runners cannot utilize. Ie. include gaps that requires jumping/teleporting. The current 5v5 map already has an alternative path into each base that requires jumping but is not really a short-cut.

Anyway, this is probably the longest post I will ever make regarding r155. I am a veteran player of DSO (and not to brag) with a lot of foresight into this game. I foresee that with r155 5v5 will be primarily dominated by Dwarfs and DKs* just as I foresaw that with the nerfing of essence in PvP DKs with their supernatural regeneration will become pretty overpowered in PVP, especially those heavy P2P DKs as they've become almost invincible. But anyway, this is just my opinion and vision of what will happen after r155. Let the flaming begin.

*I should clarify that by "dominated by Dwarfs and DKs" I mean that assume everything else is equal, a team without any Dwarfs/DKs probably will not have any chance of winning.

 

No, this very simple to solve .

Only need to change the rules :
When holding flag, your travel speed only highest 100% base speed run . ( Its mean initial character travel speed )
and can't be used in other ways to enhance the base travel speed .

 

No ... those threads should be merged into one (plus exp skills)... because you can't discuss one of them if you don't mention the other one. Because that is what we have ... fame skills and talents moved to other trees.

And for those of you who think you can only spend your wisdom points on damage and skills ... you are not considering one fact ... that is the HP. You will have at least 30% less HP at start ... so you will must spend your points on HP as well. My SW lost 1500+ HP from start ... the more HP you have the more HP you lose.
Isn't that great?

 

30 points = 30% hp and 30% dmg if u wish that
you don't lose anything from wisidom tree

 

Are you sure about that?
Last time I have checked the knowledge tree (not wisdom) it was level 50 ... which means you should have 50%+50% no 30%+30%

 

its 2% per point both hp/dmg

 

which is 25 + 25 = 50 points ... no more points left for the the skills (and these % are not the skills ... they were the core)

 

40 points max if u put only for attack and hp u have 40%/40%

you got all skills from old wisidom tree for free

the new thing is that u can pick something other instead of dmg/hp

edit
ok i see now there is 50 max points not 40

 

What are you talking about? What free?
The math is simple 25 points for damage and 25 for HP and you have no points left to choose the skills ... which we had before R155

 

I thought This knowledge and Fame tree are all base on the Exp level to get 1 point , What is the meaning of this , you changed it again tskkkk.. tskkk.. i dont like doing daily quest just to get those knowledge points and somehow wait for the mentor bonus to swap to my character ... change it back !

 

I think The cost of the Talents in purple should be reduced so that some points can b invested on the talents in blue. Because all 50 points is consumed by the talents in purple.

 

So with the new wisdom tree, existing HP of characters will decrease? Say if my character got 30 % more HP from knowledge tree? It loses some hp as the max knowledge is 50 now?

 

I think the poster was trying to say this.

If you want the 30%'s back you only have to pay 30 points the other 20 point can go somewhere else.

The problem is this. Expectations....

People expected that when they moved to higher levels of knowledge that-- (1) they would keep getting 1% hp/dmg, (2) they would get new skills... i.e. Epic cape skill. This was the basis of the knowledge tree.

I had made the suggestion that maybe 30% should be the max and to get new skills we have to increase knowledge levels. Guess I never thought about this being the case.

 

Hello guys, this is my first post in this forum and english is not my mother language so excuse my mistakes.
I have read your posts and some of you are right about some things.

First of all i want to expess my disapointment about loosing 30% hp and dmg from knowledge tree. Bp gave all skills from knowledge tree free for all, so everybody will have them from lvl 1... but i am wondering why they deleted the bonus for each lvl in this tree... I think it was fair that people with full tree had hp and dmg bonus and others not. Yes, we can get it back, but then we dont have any points left to spend them for someting else like atack speed or some of those 10-points skills. It should stay as it is right now, we should have ALL of those points to spend them for extra bonuses, not to spend them to have the same as we have now... It is ridiculous i think....

The same problem is with fame tree, for every level you got 1% bonus to dmg, but only to players and 1% dmg reduction from other players and was the main point of doing pvp before 155, bocause for example, if i look at myself i have lvl 40 already. It means that i have 40% dmg bonus vs players and 40% dmg reduction. BUT somebody who has only lvl 20, has only 20%... it means that if we will fight vs eachother i will do 20% more dmg to him AND he will do 20% less dmg to me so in conclusion it is 40% difference, so basicaly there is no way he could win and THAT is the point of it, more you play pvp=higher fame lvl= more chance to win vs people who already have it. Of course 2 ppl with 40 lvl are equal in this. BUT NOW with 155, it will be gone. I have already enough points in pvp to reach lvl 50 in fame tree instantly after release 155 and it will good for nothing for me !!! I spend a LOT of time in pvp with collecting those points and now i will have no advatage against players who made it to lvl 40 and stopped... well, i will have 10 more points to spend than those guys, but it just simply doesnt reward the time i spend there. And to make it even ,,better,, almost all of skills from fame tree are gone and many of them were very usefull even in pve(another reason to do pvp). And to be honest i was expecting new cool skill which will have only few ppl on server, thats the reason why i have almost 10 mio points in pvp... i wanted make sure i will enough points to have it instantly. Those changes are simply DISAPOINTING me a lot...

So my advice to developers? Put back those bonuses which we had for every lvl we reached in both of those trees. It simply isnt fair for old veterans in this game.

 

Fwiw, I'm level 40 as well, but I feel like the old fame tree was too unbalanced towards veterans. That 1%/1% damage delta was too much and imho a reason why pvp as getting stale.

 

Except when LVL 50 comes out, I'll be able to spend 30 points, not 50... 15 in each would give me 30%/30%, but then I'd be missing out on the 50% weapon damage/-10% speed talent which replaced my 40% weapon damage skill on LVL 45... So, If I want to keep my damage about the same, I'd need to sacrifice 20% HP until I've managed to level up my knowledge tree a bunch... which will take a while, even with mentor bonus leapfrogging.

EDIT:
Did the math based on the number of points for the Knowledge upgrades... 85k books to get to LVL 50 from LVL 30. Even done with the mentor bonus, that is 113 days... Almost 4 Months! Of course, there will be P2Ps that will just buy it, but the rest of us will be farming forever for this.

 

Such a fine suggestion^^ i would like a skill too which kills every player on sight^^

 

Honestly with farming knowledge I think it will be under 100 days. I know just from 1 to 30 I had days I could only get 250 bc of farming to much. Now that I play each job pretty equally I will reach the 50 sooner.

 

with regards to the 1 min cyanite cooldown.... it has to go away otherwise it is pointless having it. I somewhat agree that it maybe ok for in 5on5, but what about 1on1 and 3on3 ? Once shield is activated round 1 in duel, then thats it for u in round 2.