Feedback Fixing the DK

While I am watching the latest twitch stream, DK balance seems to be a tricky topic.
I’m going to just elaborate a bit, not really aiming at anything with this besides helping to reflect the possibilities.

-The root problem of the DK is his short range. So he must close in and that means normally also taking some hits.

-So the first choice is forcing the DK to only attack with dragon skin, or give him the stats to survive? This choice will surely change the way PVP looks. Dragon skin or skills in general create a more turn like PVP with a lot of players that stall for time to cool down.

-Giving DKs the simple defensive stats makes PVP more quick and dirty, but it also leaves a lot of room for min-maxing. So higher defense stats create at least a few untouchable DKs, like last time.

-There are also some other problems with DKs. One of them is elemental resistance. Most classes go pretty easy on spending ander for diamonds. With DKs that is a must have which a lot of non payers simply cannot afford. So reducing elemental damage is a factor that could help DKs in PVP without "rocking the boat" to much.

-Dealing damage is of course also a way to balance, but that already lead to the problems of OP DKs in the past.

-At last the skill speed is a way to balance. 0.2 seconds less time between clicking the button and the result can make the difference. Also players do not cry as much with speeds because many simply do not notice. (How many noticed wild swing is now on fixed speed?) Skill speeds which can balance PVP without creating a problem in PVE are Rage Jump, Charge and Iron Brow.

So yah, I am curious in what direction Jason and his team want to go.
Anyone likes to join the discussion?

 

DK could use some pve love.. (not in damage department... )

 

I only play pve, but i die TO often cause skills speed like wild swing or dragon skin.. and it is soooo frustrating to die while clicking wild swing and looking it doesn't trigger!!...

 

I have a lot of suggestions but I am think I have a few that might help out.

Change

Mighty Wild Swing
Unleashes a Wild Swing, causing 200% of your base damage as physical damage to all foes within a 3.3 meter radius.
Costs: 60 rage points
Cooldown time: 3s

TO


Mighty Wild Swing
Unleashes a Wild Swing, causing 200% of your base damage as physical damage to all foes within a 3.3 meter radius and reduces damage caused by affected foes by one-quarter for 3 seconds.
Costs: 60 rage points
Cooldown time: 3s

This will help the DK survive better.

[EDIT] This ain't Facebook.

 

i think DK is OP so please nerf him some more... How come they can tank balor... no no no no nerf him pls.^^ and what about those high crit lines pls nerf crit even more DK is so OP. Pls no more passive rage we just dont need it. it should be like 10 rage for 10k hp we loose that would be fair.

 

DKs was OP before 155 because of Regeneration and the 2handed build (big damage, high speed). Everything the Devs just need to do is put the cooldown to Regeneration and reduce the speed of 2hand weapons. But what they did!?
With 155, every class has the same base stats except DK has 10% more armor so that range classes always have advantage in most fight vs melee class (10% armor is NOTHING). Logic!
Another problem is Passive Rage Built, as a melee DK should get hit (hardly dodge attack) before they can catch the opponents, but they have not ENOUGH rage to fight.
In PvE, before 155, DK used to be hit 3 times to get enough rage for a MWS, but in 155 its about 6 hits or more. Yeah, when DK have enough rage, they die. LOL.
Other classes become much stronger! It's Ok! But now a Ranger or Mage can kill DK in 1 or 2hits, it's not normal.
PvP is now imbalance as he!!.
IT'S A BIG FAIL till now.

 

I did not think I get to write this. The warrior is completely ruined, he has no fury to perform his skill, he does not regenerate fury, is a useless character. Yes, I said that the warrior must always regenerate fury, dear Mr. Greg, but only if an enemy approaches the warrior within 10 meters. This is quite normal that at the sight of an enemy the warrior is angry and generates 5 Fury per second. And please, insert as a weapon two hands a spear or a halberd with a range double of the current weapons.

 

What have I done?!? I started a complaining thread without intending it

 

We are dying before getting any rage to use... both pvp and pve.... also we die with just 1 ranger bomb arrow...

 

my defense dk is set up with 17.9k hp and 71% block rate . In pvp he got almost 1 shotted by a ranger... How does that happen? he is not cash and he is not a recuit lol.

I want to add big topic about dks being to over OP overall so some players dont want to see new changes to the dk , some like myself that has 2 dks as their mains (one damage build and one defense) I was thinking because some players fear the DK being unstoppable again in pvp... Maybe the design team can give certain skills in pve or bonuses just for pve use to help Dks tank , and take damage like they are made for. However If the player went pvp (in the ring) these bonuses would be nerfed .

Just remember Dks are the only class that has to get close to attack. Unlike the others.

Duels is the only pvp ring that has the dks at a dis avantage. How come? some ranged classes will hide behind the barriers and shoot thru them but the dks cant rush thru them? sounds un fair to me. However there is one barrel at the north end of the map where ranged classes cant shoot thru (would be surprised how many get very mad because they need to come close to hit you xD ) but hey they wanna play dirty let us use the little barrel as the only safe point. That being said. SMs still can attack you with their turrets even if the dk hides behind there. Like i said dis avantage.

 

There is no fix for DK in the current game design because all classes have the same knowledge tree and pvp tree. This means all classes can achieve approximately the same damage, health, attack speed, run speed, BLOCK rating, etc. Sure DK will have slightly more "base" HP and 10% more armor, but it won't matter when the DK dies in the same number of hits as ranged classes.

But let's look at DK's faults: Melee, starts with 0 rage and terrible rage generation from being hit; lack of burst damage skills, lack of easily applicable slows, longest cool-down of all classes on stun breaks, worst armor break with single target and medium cooldown AND melee class, etc.

Unless they give DK permanent dragon-skin buff, DK will always die first, unless ofc significantly over-geared/leveled compared to PvP opponent. But if you have not yet invested heavily into DK, why would you when you can invest the same amount and make a super- op ranger or mage (rather than on a mediocre DK)?

DK is nothing more than a cannon-fodder in PvP and a glorified meat-shield for group of lazy ranged classes (who don't want to kite) at Balor boss fights. Non-essential at best, a burden at the worst to groups. In other words, if you're starting the game, don't pick DK. If you want to tank, a ranger or dwarf will tank equally as well with the help of free lootable potions, not that you'll ever need to face tank mobs/bosses as a ranged class when you can kite.

I recommend all new players to start as Ranger and abuse the new explosive arrow.

And no, Gnob mace will not help vs explosive arrow or high damage hits. It only works well if your opponent is stupid enough to spam you with basic attacks to proc your blocks.

R155-R157 is approximately 2 months. This should tell you that BP does not take the DK player-base seriously, otherwise a hotfix would have been released long time ago as an emergency fix to prevent the mass-exodus of DK population. Shame, many of those DKs were the heaviest spenders and youtubers who provided valuable and free marketing for the game. Oh well, BP's loss. After 2 months, assuming there won't be further delays to DK fixes, I wonder how many of those DKs will return and of those who return, how many will trust BP enough to support them financially in the future. How many rangers/mages/dwarves will trust BP enough to financially support knowing that what happened to DK can just as easily happen to their class...

 

I have been thinking a lot about what has happened since rel 155. I like being a dk. I like carrying big weapons and hitting things. I ended up creating a mage because they are like the cool kids in school. Everybody wants them on their teams. Dks were merely tolerated in teams. People would have 1 dk on their team because you HAD to have one to tank mortis. The mage is MUCH easier to play than the dk. It is easier to find a group for a mage. Mage is easier in PVP. Mage gets more points in PVP. You don't have to get near your enemies. Just stand way back and shoot. Easy peasy!

Now I feel like I have been punished. Bp never told me that I was doing anything wrong. I was already playing the most difficult char and now it is almost impossible. It is just plain painful to play the dk. I spend all my time running away from monsters because I am so fragile now. Why isn't there new equipment dropping that will help me get stronger? I haven't picked up or crafted any equipment that is better than what I already have since rel 155. Why is level 50 equipment worse than the level 48-49 equipment that I have now?

I play my mage a little. I am spending more and more time not playing this game. It just seems kind of sad.

How about an apology and an explanation bp? How about letting us know if rel 155 increased your revenue? Some other posts have mentioned that we should probably not be spending money on this game since we don't know what the future is going to be. I agree with that. How about a little honesty? Why haven't you made any effort at all the fix the dks?

 

Well written!
I think I will wait for the news on R157.
If you are right, I will ask BP to change my class.
The contract terms state clearly that no gains through the game are guaranteed, although that does not cover the case that something is taken from me at will by my contract partner. Although it is on a law theoretical level difficult, yet not impossible, to define that as a loss.
Most companies are interested in keeping loyal customers, so I guess class conversions are a reasonable thought for both sides in this case.

 

Before 155, dks using 2H is killing everyone in JUST 1 wild swing and they heal non stop !
Did you miss that ?

[EDIT]

 

Wow post...
I agree to change knowledg tree... 2hnd skill and block should be only for DK like it used to be. And passive rage build should be there as default, not to cost 10, OMG 10 POINTS!

Well on my char 10 points is

2561 hp
OR
430 dmg

1. Change knowledg tree for all clases
2. put back superhuman regeneratio on pvp and make triger without cooldown
3. Put 2% regeneratio for 5 sec on FBC and dragon hide (5 points)
4. Throw away battle frenzy and give dk some mid range skill (spear, shield, rock throwing or spitting my op dk saliva) with stun or bleeding

[EDIT]

 

Come on, even the title of this thread is complaining...

Sure, let the DK be the only class that can tank and at the same time can deal more damage than the other calsses. That's obvious, you are melee, so you need that.

And, if the passive rage is so important, choose it.

I have some ideas for 3 new mid range skills with damage,stun and bleed.

Something that creates a sismic shock wave that will travel in one direction, maybe causing 100% physical damage on it's path and 200% fire damage at the end of his path.

Or something like a charge, a 10 metres skill that can stun.

Or a 4.62 metres radius skill that can slow and gives dot damage.

 

Well if i put 10 pts on rage, than i lose 2.5k hp or 450 dmg. If pasive rage was 1-3 pts i would take it. But 10 pts is too much.
Now lets look at dk in group. If you go hnd you bring too litlle dps to group, if you go 2hnd and die than you are just burden to group.
Pre155 dk was backbone of any good farm nowdays is nothing... well you need dk for balor (at least 99% of groups need 1) and than you glorfy dk, 5 min later you go on forum and trash that same dk and his cry for some balance.

Mag and dwarf got +50% on 2hnd weapons, dk got nerfed speed and 0%, ra got neverendless armor brake, dk lose pasive rage, mag got hp regeneration, dk lose...

Give me 20% base long rang or 50% mid rang so i can hit'n'run in arena...well dk could use everywhere some love...pve wise and pvp wise

We'll see after 157 what will happen...i sill didn't got gnob 6k mace even though i have drakens... and yeah HOW ABOUT THAT MACE....THEY JUST COULDN'T MAKE SWORD OR AXE

 

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but in case you are:

There is the inherent risk of playing as melee class. You are more likely to die than ranged classes when surrounded by mobs and/or from a random high hit/crit from bosses. If you deal significantly less damage, you prolong the fight duration which equates to more damage taken during fights and higher risk of dying. DK must also physically walk to the mob rather than shoot and kill half-way across the screen; approaching mobs from distance takes more time than shooting.

DK needs comparable damage to ranged classes (note the key word: comparable). DK are not asking for higher, but rather similar damage or just slightly below. Otherwise, why would anyone want to play as a melee handicapped class? This is an action-RPG, the thrill of the game comes from fast pace killing mobs and collecting loot. If the melee class clears much slower than the ranged classes and have much higher chance of dying in the process, the end result is nobody will play DK.

Think logically, would you play a class so your entire purpose is to help other classes farm easier at Balor Boss and in return, these other classes uses you as free honor points in PvP and then go back on the forums trashing you (or mock you in arena/ingame town)?

With slower clear speed, DK will receive less andermants, less blue essence, less glyph, less coins, less usable loots, less cubes, less drakens (and the list goes on) compared to ranged classes; and all the while pays more in revive costs.

In boss fights, DK has the highest chance of dying because he is taking the damage for the entire group; and there is the associated andermant costs that comes with it.

It is much easier to play as a ranged class like everyone else. Ranger popularity seems to be on the rise. Mage is quite decent too.

 

That's right yeah! Why are dk's complaining so much? It just costs them 10 points to get the same amnt of rage they used to get before 155!!! who cares if with the same amount of points ranged classes can get 4k damage from 3k and 50% travel speed than 40%. yeah? why should they complain so much? i know they have received some balance, but now they are on the same field as the other classes!!!! yeah? but why does a f2p dk have no chance against a f2p ranged class? they must be noobs ahahahaha!!!!! and y does a payer dk have to go royal and go full jester gems so they dont feel threatened by majority of the mid pay ranged classes? omg that dk player says he loves playing dk, but he is so noob he had to buy jester gems!!!!! HAHAHAHAH!!!!


You are absolutely right, ground breaker charge and bloody wild swing can kill every ranged class easily they just need to spam ground breakers against someone shooting 750% base damage or roughly 400%-600% damage at point of contact or 2, 10 seconds automatic 175% damage per second damage dealing weapons. I wonder why they say they have to use up all points on survival so there is no room left for customization of choosing attack enhancement talents omg the noob dk's have to choose both immunity and stun debuffs together because their stun debuffs and rage generation skills are the same what noobs, just get hit to generate rage. what? now he says he dies as soon as he gets hit and there is no rage. they will never learn

 

Damage is an interesting point.

Many newer players assume classes deal equal damage. However the skills create huge differences. Understanding skill cycles helps a lot in understanding the classes.

Damage against a single target in bursts while running and taking potions, such as with Dragan.
2 times a 4 second burst and then 22 seconds in running. So about 30 seconds in total.

(Stuns and armor break will not work with bosses, so let’s take that out of the equation this time. Also wolves and guardians will not last in some boss fights, so let’s forget them. Player is using Dragan set, attack speed is about 1.2)

Ranger: 2832%
Mark 66%, Bird of prey 300% 4xPrecision Shot=1200%, Adrenaline, Mark 66%, 4xPrecision Shot=1200%.

Mage: 2315%
Lightning 250%, 2x lightning electrified 666%, Teleport, 3x lightning electrified 999%, 4x magic missile 400%

Dwarf: 3600%
2 mechanical turrets (They do about 75% dmg but have 200% attack speed, test it if you don’t believe. 30sec with 1.2 speed) = 5400%. (Let’s assume only 33% hit because dwarf moves stupid, so about 1800%, 6x times heavy shot=1800% (they have no cool down with mechanical turrets running)

Dragon Knight: 2200%
Banner, dragon Skin, dragons fury 750%, 2x rage swing 200%, mighty wild swing 200%, Dragons fury 750% 2x rage swing 200%, mighty wild swing 200%
(Let’s forget the fact here that staying 8 seconds on one place is a bad idea with lasers around)

So that being said, please don’t talk about same damage potential.

It simply is an error of thought that is only based on players who are not used to play all classes.
Especially not if you take into account that the average DK can’t tank Dragan without a shield and geared for defense, so realistically you can halve the Dks damage after R155.

So now you can see why 40% extra damage for 2h DKs was overpowered. It would create over 3000% dmg while the dwarf was much worse than today.

Same damage potential however in stats is an overreaction towards mages and DKs. I do not think this was intended, but let’s wait for the next release because I might be forced to revoke this statement.