Announcement Ask the CMs in English

It seems like it is complicated. There is no single right answer or strategy to balancing, so they strugle. Mathematically, it is hypercompicated problem which has no polynomial-time algorithm to apply, so they should either go genetic or re-adjust every release and re-evaluate. Guess they chosen the adjust/tweak route, they tweak the skills a little and evaluate pvp and other metrics. Who knows how many iterations are needed for them to succeed, especially if every iteration is bringing new moving pieces and they do mistakes as they go (lifekeeper), which they patch rather than fix.

And who knows if their evaluation model is good. They surely have tons of data, but do they data mine the truth out of those data?

I'm sure issues will continue until ELO is introduced to the game. But instead of bringing it, they do the CV that makes zero sense, and even worse - it has no potential to make any sense, as you cannot really value an Item in DSO irrespectively to other items. I ran into this when creating BestDamageSetup algorithm, Auto Equip Optimization of sort. There was no mathematical measure besides evaluating all possible item selections, which are millions. Even genetic algorithms wouldn't work as they do not guarantee getting the single best selection, but 'good enough'.

So CV is silly idea. It shouldn't go beyond showing how close the item modifiers are to the maximum possible, but thats not the case. And they keep trying to solve what is impossible to solve.

Hey Dev, as a mathematician, you cannot score an item besides scoring it values. What you can score, is a complete setup, but even that would be up to a number of coefficients that represent how important to the score mana is, how important to the score healing gems are, the attack speed or travel speed. So please, forget all of that and show us the % for every item to show how good modifiers are, with 100% being maximum.

But what that means to us in terms of balancing - to me it's simple. Since the team isnt that strong mathematically as they are trying to solve problems that are impossible to solve, they will also not able to solve the balancing puzzle, as one should be real smart (mathematically, PhD data scientist of sort) to put an evaluation model together. Don't want to say it, but it doesn't look current team is one.

 

That is why I've said that it should be based on two absolute values... DPS and Effective HP. From there, they can take the extra stuff that doesn't impact those two values and put it in a "miscellaneous" catagory that they can assign an arbitrary value that 99% of players will ignore. Then, armed with the two useful numbers and one semi useless number, then players will truly be able to compare builds using the CV system.

 

Okay, there are tons of issues with what you suggest making it imposssible mathematiclly, but let's move to BigPapa thread)

 

I agree, that there is no single answer to balancing. However not having a answer which doesn't suit all, doesn't warrant effectively playing around with a class gene. The adjust/tweak route would be fine with me if in the months since 155 I found the thing was going in the right direction. However things are getting worse. DK's have been tinkered with to the point that if DSO doesn't admit that the genetic code that they are trying to force into the DK is wrong, then the DK class will never recover again.
Not just DK,mark my words that if they do nothing about PVP/skill system soon, then the thing that happened with DK class will be happening again with other classes with their current skills, until all the classes are a makeshift tin toy with parts and spares from garbage dumps over the country.

Balancing is tough, but its not that there aren't successful games out there where there is much lesser complaint's in PVP from players. These same games have player classes like 2h Warrior. 2Handed Mages, High Damage Rangers etc. There the people don't complain everyday about PVP. If DSO cant satisfy the players, then learn from these games, observe their mechanics, know their workings, hire pvp designers to make equivalent/better DSO's own unique PVP system. But take action. Haruki, this is not something as simple as "I will let the team know". This is something as serious as "If we don't do something now, then DSO is a PVP dead game" which will effectively shorten the lifespan of the game.

 

don't take me wrong. I'm with you, you are 100% correct. What I'm afraid of, and what freaks me out is that the Dev team might be using wrong evaluation model and they have no clue about it, so things are unlikely to get better. They will be patching and tweaking instead of holistically fix the thing

 

Hello there people from the internet,

here we go with some more answers from the CM. Get yourself together and keep firing them!

Hey there,

as we said, we are constantly giving the team the feedback you guys are giving and the CV system is still fresh and there is still a lot of talk surrounding it, complains and suggestions alike, which means that it's still important for you guys. I cannot promise that there will be changes in this respect (or, if they are, which priority level will this receive inside the vast ocean of all projects...) but we are passing your feedback. Yes.

Hey there,

I would not go as far as saying that is a complete waste of time but it can naturally be very annoying when waiting for something to happen to a feature or aspect of a game reality that quite never arrives. That I can understand. We try to be as transparent with you guys as possible. Sometimes this means that vague answers are the best shot we have. Of course Drakensang Online has its own agenda but it would be very stupid not to look at the communal agenda and see what is going on there. We are doing this. Maybe not as quickly or diligently as some people would expect.

Hey there,

true that, I should not have.

• Realm fragments: we are increasing the quantity from 7 to 10 since we are also introducing the Painful mode plus we want to increase the dropped realm fragments across all maps in an upcoming release.
• Fairy Wood/Essences: the number remain the same in these events, allegedly unbalanced. Will try and get hold on an official statement concerning this although I am pretty sure it has to do with the core mechanics of these two events which, may be similar but also have their internal and numerical differences. Stay tuned for that.

Pretty much what Mister Trakilaki is saying here. However, this is something already brought up to the attention of the PvP masters inside the team. We will probably revert this situation to make it that these essences cannot be used either on open PvP arenas. When this will happen? No ETA yet.

Not so many new things: the design is on hold for other more urgent features and changes that the game needs. This does not mean that we are not doing it - but we will keep on talking internally about it in January. Presume that, if there are no news in this respect in any of the boards/social media pages, we are still working on it. What we already know (and to keep things short): a light-melee class that will focus on speed, swiftness and some tricks in order to deal high peaks of damage to his opponents while being less sturdy than the DK.

No 100% confirmation yet, as far as I know. I will get my anti-turd jacket and go and try to find out.
Stay tuned.

There is nothing wrong with you, as far as I can tell from the way you write. My last answer pinpointed to the fact that the essences are working as intended, the way you are describing. Bugging tomorrow the designers for some official words on that front as well.

Chill out, bro, and read a little bit before. The issue is under the knowledge of the PvP people inside the team.

Hey there,

we have made the proposal that stack sizes increment a little bit more for these items, yes.
It's currently in the pipeline, ready to be reviewed/decided upon its viability.

Hey there mister,

release 159 brings extra benefits from being in a group:



As for the other thingie you comment, maybe you are referring at the rather big value of the "vampiric aura" or "life-leech" of some of the Champions in PW. This will be corrected with rel159.

Good question. I will come back to this on later post, if you do not mind.

Good day to you sir,

ah, Bavaria, the wonderful southern land. Time to cook me a Weisswurst and drink some old good Paulaner.
More than a question, I get your message as a complaint. Which you are very well entitled to but in this case the team believes the removal of all healing effects and potions in the 1v1 and 3v3 modes as soon as the Exhaustion kicks in is a good and necessary addition. For the whole PvP experience.

Please, no.

Hello there mister,

I did not pick up your answer because it was discourteous. At all - so please do not understand it that way, as it was not my intention. I just picked it up because... dunno, jumped to my eyes since it's a recurrent topic and I wanted to give my spontaneous opinion about it. As I wrote already, I do not see the Wikia as a competitor of Bigpoint but as an amazing resourceful place where people exchange good pieces of info and help each other.

Hey there Yogo,
(I really like your avatar, damn it!)

1. No. Introduction of different gems for events and Jesters, yes, prolly, but higher tiers of the typical gems, not really (they were enhanced with rel158 anyway)
2. Nope.

--------------------------------

Talk to you next time! (Tomorrow or on Friday)

Cheerios,
Haruki

 

This is a mages/clerics job to Buff the players for Hp,crit,damage ect.
with the mob scaling you use now,it will be the same as it ever was(Talking Heads-once in a lifetime) and make us think it's better.
how bout reverse it,so -5% hp for mobs and bosses with a group of 5 players.?
or just don't scale the map for every player that joins your group.
at level 50-Experience Points are non beneficial.

 

Hi there,

A couple of questions. I'm a new player, only about 4 weeks into my adventure, so bear with me with me if some of this has already been adressed.

Could we have a seperate tab for PvP quests, like there is for event quests? 10 is quite limiting. Annoying having to delete quests - or to get back to a quest hub and realize you could have completed more quests on your last round, if there had been room for them.

Could we have a bar (optional) for consumables? 4 slot maybe? Keybindable. Having to open your inventory during battle to use a potion or use a spirit stone to resurrect is extremely poor design. If you want people to spend a little Andermant, you could make the number of slots tied to the number of sockets in your belt (belt is often used for potions in MMOs).

Are there any plans to make repeatable quests useful? Only 48 with highest level character, but so far I don't think I've come across one that was worth doing. Kill 300 mobs in Atlantis Above Water: 25 silver. You would make more killing mobs in the time spent picking up and delivering the quest. Kill 200 mobs in Twilight Downs: 1100 exp. I need like 4.000.000 to level up - 1100 is insignificant.
Give them a decent gold reward and a small item. One for healing potions, one for buff, one for lock picks etc. Make them themed - one in Gleaming Mountains could give you flawed gems for mining. Make them an incentive for players to revisit old zones.

Edit: One last thing for now. Thankfully all my charaters have access to PW. If I had arrived after you introduced the 1 character at level 50 requirement with R158, I probably would have left for another game quickly. You can't just take out important midgame content, and a source of much needed items, without replacing it with something else.

I have a lot more, so I might be back later.
Thanks for your time.

 

No seriously, I mean it! no need to be suspicious. Now I just hope everything comes with as little bugs as possible

 

I'm already liking the concept. Another good thing is that I can combine my three solstice stars tomorrow to boost my stats a little^^.

I tested the difficulty modes a bit... Seems to be do-able with red and a test-server ranger... but well dmg with red on that ranger is little bit more than mine with green so that'll be ok. Let's hope the rewards are worth it. The new sets seem to be great. Might as well use the Grimmag's one (Tier 3) ^^.

Also the challenges in the winter event seem to be great with nice rewards.
_____________________________________________________________________

Now something else.

Don't wanted to put this in the Creative Corner 'cause I was hoping you can directly read it in here.
Was having this idea...
Simply remove the honor points gain in the open arena and the open PvP areas, and create a system in which people can challenge one another for a 1v1-battle (A real one, with exhaustion, the counter, ability to see enemy on the mini-map etc.) and simply allow people to get 100 honor points for every time there (max. 5 a person like it's now in the open areas). Both players must ofc. agree with this battle. There's no forcing into it.

This way you will reduce the amount of people 'farming' their honor points in open areas and people can play peacefully in the open PvP maps of their level (well let's hope it'll be peaceful, there'll always be those that like to annoy others).


I like the concept of challenging others into a battle, people often give the argument "No chance in 1v1." Well then at least it's possible. Should just make the same concept as a 1v1 battle in the Pit now. Just that you can challenge others into it (so both sides must agree on it).


Cheers

 

Hello Haruki,
before Patch 158 purple ,red essence can`t be used vs players in open maps.
After Patch 158 its possible in open maps.
Can you tell me why?

 

Helpful for all if you read posts already made and not repeat questions. Her last post answered yours.

 

Thanks for the reply,

I realise that some games don't have their own wiki, so this is reason enough to not go forward with the idea i proposed earlier. While in some respects the wikia will have advantages over one created by BP, personally I would prefer seeing the info from you guys. A bp wiki would be more complete, accurate, and dynamically updated, whereas currently if a new unique is introduced, we as players have to wait for someone to come across this item and hope they upload it to the wiki.

I would be thankful if somebody could upload the information about the new tier 2 rings; it is too much to ask the players to do it (gathering a ton of materi fragments and crafting a potentially useless ring for others to make a decision whether they want to invest the time to get that ring for themselves).

As for the group question, it is currently believed that 5 people in a group increases monsters health by 500%. In previous releases, this occurred for events, bosses, and the PWs. Without the health scaling, a group would kill the monsters far too easily. But with the health scaling, it is better for a strong player to solo a map, rather than group with a weak player who will just make the monsters twice as hard.

Is this still the case or has it been nerfed such that 5 people now equals 400% health only? Are there any hidden benefits such as increased ander/legendary drop rates. I don't think the 5% exp bonus helps group play, because exp is shared among players. If a strong player pairs up with a weak player who contributes little, the player gets 50% of the experience only. With the new buff, the players gets 52% when they could be getting 100%. Greg has said in a twitch, "don't play with sucky players". In every group there is a strongest player, and that player gets a poor deal by grouping with the current/previous system. And of course weaker players find it harder to get a group because of this. It is possible to be in a mutual beneficial group, but usually its better to solo, whether it be because you are faster solo, or because you are slowing the group down.

I have heard that in some places like Balor and extreme modes, the quality of the legendary items dropped are 50% stronger.

I may create a thread in the creative corner proposing two icons, one based on group monster health and the other on item drop rates.

I understand that developers who programmed the drop rate may need to be asked, and given that it is a busy time, i won't recieve an answer.

Thanks

 

this whole forum is a repeat.

 

No she didn't , I did!

Mister @daywaker2 , creating multiple accounts and spamming the forum is a major breach of the forum rules.
I hope you understand that actions against you will be taken, not just in this forum but in the game as well.

Cheers,
Mal3ficent

 

In that case, maybe you can pry open a door for https://board-en.drakensang.com/threads/inventory-export-to-excel.69987/#post-638658. Forum experts are collaborating on a detailed product. sebastian_fl is doing all the heavy lifting. It should be finished sooner than in-house, and be much more detailed.

 

Well done !

 

I'm not sure why you would think that...

Trakilaki in particular is VERY good at updating the Wiki. BP on the other hand has a hard time telling us about up-coming changes that Trakilaki (and his team) has already found.

While I think your premise is good, the reality isn't quite what we'd hope for.

 

A bp wiki could be more complete, accurate, and dynamically updated, however incredibly unlikely that is to happen. Considering years of failed production schedules, major bugs and quality issues, major corporate troubles, and inaccurate and misleading information in facebook, twitch, the forums, and the website, do you really think accurate and timely releases of quality details will come from BigPoint?

You are messing with us, right?

 

Haruki, this is one of the best and most important posts on all these pages and here's why. A new player to the game sees the "why isnt this in the game" and "it should work this way" elements better than any of us veterans do. They're not jaded enough to want something changed, they just want it to be the way it should be in the first place. Interestingly enough, s/he is asking for things that have been asked for for YEARS by everyone at all levels of experience. If it is so obvious to a new player that those things need to be in the game, then why is it not as obvious to your crew?

Here's my question: Why o' why, do we ask for simple convenience of life features that get turned away like a PVP tab, a seperate bag for those quest items, a way to swap essence and use potions and stones on the fly without having to search through inventory, fixing the mouse pointer so it is visible during high graphic fights, etc etc etc and yet we get things that we dont want, haven't asked for, and have no utility, like; the CV system, comparison tools, "hero light", Premium vendor, Sells windows in the middle of fights, "New item" popups.....I could go on for days.

I know you guys want to be creative and make an amazing expereince for all of us. I know you want to give us more than we could desire and you are working hard to do that. But, shouldn't all that start with basic quality of life improvements. Making us dive into inventory for ANY item during a fight is interuptive and basic common sense says it wouldnt happen. "Just a minute honey, i know i got one of those stone things in my bag somewhere, oh stop shooting me naughty Skeleton, im trying to rez my honey."

And fix the dam mouse pointer. Quit making me waste time and energy and dragging me out of the experience of the game by making me squint and make my mouse go in circles so I can find it and not use all my concentration on air.