The value of Critical Hit and Critical Damage

So, I'm under the impression that Critical Hit and Critical Damage are important aspects of a toon when it comes to consider its damage power.

However, since that in the PW everyone just asks simply "What's your dmg?" this makes me wonder:

- Is this because a pure damage build is an overall better choice?

- Is this just to simplificate?

E.g: Without doing the math, I think i would prefer to have in my group a toon that has 8k base damage + 68% critical hit + 280% critical dmg; than a toon that has 15k dmg and 3% critical hit.

However the first one would probably not be accepted to be included in a infernal run because the answer to the question "What's your dmg?" is "8k". And the second is likely to be included because the anwer is "15k".

What are your thoughts?

 

The answer is very simple

They are noobs

 

The thing is that I never EVER seen ANYONE asking differently... And this put the first guy in a tight spot where he is forced to lie about its base damage in order to get groups for infernal runs.

Maybe it should be officially added the "DPS" value, calculated using the base dmg, speed, critical hit and critical dmg. This way maybe people would ask "What's your DPS?" instead, and that would be more accurate and fair to everyone.

 

The is no way to calculate your luck on crit, thats why people ask for dmg. Its all about speed/attack speed (more more more crits) critical rate and crit dmg. I personally prefer to keep playing with people i like and dont really care about dmg but that my personal view..

 

Well 68% critical hit means that in 100 shots, 68 are critic. I think it's more about math than about luck... but I'm no expert.

 

Luck can be calculated.. 50% crit means you crit half the time on average. This stat can be added very easily so i'm confused why it's not here yet.

I can type in my stats in like 20 seconds on this website and get my dps

http://dsopage.bplaced.net

No reason it can't be done automatically.

 

I would not accept neither, both have too low stats to do infernal

Ignore everyone that asks for damage, they are usually noobs

 

I don't know... can we trust that the crit rate PRNG is reasonably accurate? If only some hard working math nut tested this to see if BP was being honest with us.

Long story short, if you take any 5-10 hits, you may have "good luck" or "bad luck," but over the long run, it works out that there is nothing about the crit equation that is suspect.

 

DAMAGE x ATTACK SPEED x CRITICAL CHANCE x CRITTICAL DAMAGE

 

Thank you for the discussion on this. It helps a newer player like me learn about these important things. I personally prefer attack speed in just about any situation - even over overall damage. I'm not sure how the critical chance and critical damage calculate in this game so I'll just take your word and I appreciate it.

 

No... Just... No.

The actual DPS equation is

where
D1=Low end damage
D2=High end damage
S= Attack Speed
R= Critical hit rate (in decimal format, not percentage. ex, 48% would be .48)
C= Critical damage (Also in decimal format. ex, 237% would be 2.37)

And that has nothing to do with iNeXoRaBlE's, claim that there is no way to calculate the luck on crit.

See the above equation.
The problem with speed is related to essence use. If you have two DPS values that are equal, but one has a higher speed, that build will use more essence to do the same damage. That is why some people leave out the speed and calculate "DPH" or Damage Per Hit. That value is particularly useful for DoT skills like a DK's bleed, or Dragon Fury, or a speed independent attacks like a DK's Charge.

 

Btw, why don't we have speed, critical hit rate and critical damage essence in this game. Give everybody another 3 variable points to make the math even more fun....

 

Because the speed, crit hit and crit damage are limited ... the damage is not (at least without cheating)

 

For PvE purposes you should add 'mana' into equation (including resource cost decreasing runes and items). Mage with the 185 mana and 10% cheaper skills is 2x (or more) damage output of mage with 100 mana.

 

Agreed, but how tho? Where in the formula would one add "mana" and the decreased costs?, also, in theory, not every mana point spent will account for the same damage output, for instance, 2 LS would output better DPS (into a single target like a boss) than a destruction, am I correct?, I've always been curious as how mana and mana costs could be effectively measured for DPS calculation purposes, I mean, you can note and perceive the difference for sure, but a math rookie like me cannot quite find a way to measure it.

 

I was thinking something similar. Also, once you factor in speed, the mana becomes more or less relevant. If you have really low speed then natural regen and MC/singularity/teleport combos can keep you from running out of mana.

Once you start to consider adding mana into a DPS equation, then you would also have to start to consider skill rotations, combos, skill effects, and single target vs AoE. Soon you end up with a math equation with so many variables that I doubt there is one solution and you enter the art of combat instead of the science.

I'd not recommend adding Mana/Concentration/Steam (Rage is even weirder since it generates from being hit) into a DPS equation because the DPS is simply supposed to be an indicator of damage over time under optimal circumstances.

This isn't to say that extra Mana/Concentration/Steam aren't useful, but simply that they are so subjective that it is hard to assign it an empirical value like the other stats can be.

 

I assume the question in question , the one usually asked in chat actually is about damage output. I also assume the static opponent, as most bosses are pretty static with a good tank.

I would calculate it as DPS / (1-manacostreduction) * mana / 100.

Usual mage combo with aempty mana is:
MC-Teleport-Singu,x*LS,teleport, x*LS - magic missiles until cooldown reset.

If there is some mana, change the order of teleport and singu.

With 185 mana, 20% mana reduction I can fire 5 consecutive LS, followed by 5 more after teleport.

Assuming I only had 100 mana, I would only do 2 lighting strikes, followed by two, and/but more magic missiles.

So with roughly double the mana, I get 2.2-2.3x dmg output given 10 LS instead of 4. But there are extra magic missiles in the second setup.

I have tested that many times. Works like a charm on bosses, Sigi for instance. I solo him in three waves, beginning plus two more. Second and third waves go with 10 LS like described above, and few more in the end to finally kill him.

Without all that mana, it takes much longer, double the time longer.

With tank things are even easier. Even with bosses throwing stuff like grimmag, i still can do my routine throwing singu to the side and teleporting to safety if in danger, still doing all 5 hits, rarely 4. With Mortis the same, even if he throws the immunity circle at me, I always stay on the edge of singu, so move to the other edge when cannot use skills, and keep my routine.

Actually, if we talk very specific numbers, mana is discrete. It rather works like attack speed, with breakpoints. Breakpoints being an ability to throw additional LS. So 185 and 180 and 190 are roughly the same.

 

I notice that at early levels, at least for me, that a faster attack speed is helping me stay alive. I'm not too focused on the critical hit and critical damage. But I have encountered a few defeats with the harder bosses and elites (not sure what to call them). Just curious but do I lose experience when I die? I'm only playing on normal difficulty.

 

No- you don't lose any experience points when you die

 

You don't lose expenriece when you die, it's an hardcore game
We have to thank Baragain for coming up with the equation