How to recognize a bot user?

I've come across this random video whose author says he's caught a bot user (dwarf 00:38):

[EDIT: Content removed]

At first I didn't see what's wrong, but then I realized this:

• He always uses exactly the same path.
• He enters the dungeon instantly, whereas real players always stop for a second or two to select difficulty or at least to click "Enter".
• He also never uses a mount, but that's not really a proof...
• Anything else?

 

Hello @Akageshi, we do not allow public reports/evidence of bot using in the forums, all that material has to be forwarded directly to support, hence the removal of the media content. Regarding your question, I'll allow the thread to go on so that maybe some other users can share insight on suspicious toon behaviour that could lead to more people getting solid proof and providing it to support for further investigation, however, any derailment and the thread will be gone burgers since this is a serious topic, best regards.

 

Not always, as the one that I suspect stop by 1-2 second in front of PW door before entering & He respawn in Cardhun unmounted, 1 sec alter call his mount, then go off to the PW dungeon again.

- Leaderboard Time & Boss Kill points most likely 0, or not much as the bot not completing the PW quest dungeon, therefore they don't get Time & Boss kill point.
- 1-2 Weeks after the season started, they are most likely still having only Leaderboard point in 1-2 PW dungeon, and that is already about 800k-1m points. While normal players most likely stop on gold bag point requirement & move on to the other PW so they have less but more distributed points among other PW.

 

This was a very good point but now it is almost obsolete because botters now have the power lvl to solo bosses in lower difficult (and they already started doing it).
What is really valid, instead, is the very low Time bonus compared the amount of LB points collected.

 

I see alot of talk about bot users across the forum and chat in game and i'd like to say a few things. I really enjoy playing this game and think that it should be an enjoyable experience for all players. However i fee that these witch hunts looking for botting players to ban just create a certain negativity in the game. Im not saying i condone botting but just that i feel it needs to be handled in a different way. Instead of trying to prove that certain individual players are botting, which is going to always be difficult to get solid proof of, i feel that there should be a way developed to just make it really hard or impossible even to bot, or for it to even be worth botting.

So the idea i submitted to BP, and i don't really know if this idea would be too hard to implement is this:
It appears from observation that the one thing bots cannot do, maybe because it would be too hard to program it, is they cannot interact with npc quest givers and accept or turn in quests. So outside of each parallel worlds door is a quest giver. Now once you get past the initial quests you never interact with this quest giver again. But my idea is to add a quest to each quest giver to grant permission to enter each parallel world door each time you want to enter. It's simple in the sense you would accept the quest and then turn it in to the same giver simply gaining permission to enter, nothing difficult. But if you don't do this then the door stays locked. To me this would mean that bots could run up to the door all they want but not being able to accept and turn in the quest means they would not be able to enter. And even though i used PW doors as an example you could really do this to every entrance to all areas. It might be a bit of an inconvenience for players to get used too but maybe worth it to cut down on the botting.

I know this idea may not completely eliminate botting but i bet it would cut it down so much that it would seem like botting is almost dead.
I'm hoping this idea is not too difficult to implement but i have already submitted it to BP so only time will tell.

 

This part isn't exactly an indicator. Each "season" I rarely if ever do the 2nd map in most dungeons and more than likely won't do the boss at all, as there is no need to do it in order to reach the gold level.

So most seasons my time and boss kills are 0 on most dungeons, yet I have never used a bot.

Given how long the seasons are now, I could easily gold in most of the dungeons without ever doing a boss.

 

Very incorrect assumptions.
I always stops at PW entrance for a couple of secs to make sure that I am entering the correct difficulty.
I always exit PW dungeon using the scroll after killing mini-bosses and I do not kill smaller creatures. So, I am always unmounted after exiting the PW dungeon and then I mount and go back.
According to your description, you will be classifying me as a bot.

I never kill PW bosses (well almost never), and most of my boss kill points are zero. Because I am not strong enough to kill them fast enough to my satisfaction, so I stick with just mini-bosses.
And, I only have entrances to grimm on my DK and 3 PW dungeons on my SW yet, so I only kill on those dungeons.
So as I only have those, I will be continuing to kill on those dungeons that I have access to.

All your points describes me as a bot user. But, I have never used bots and will never use.

 

To be absolutely clear, first let me say that there are currently bot users present, and measures by BP to avoid bot using are highly desired.
BUT I have to completely object to jslaughter's idea (I'm still puzzled why there's not a dislike button available in the forum).
Don't put crazy ideas into the developers' heads - implementation of additional access confirmation to a PW dungeon via NPC would slow down the gameplay of all players!
I don't want to be slowed down by anti-bot measures causing inconveniences for everybody. Did you ever e.g. farm effectively materi fragments using the 1h buff ("glasses") by searching for portals or doing complete Infernal1 runs in q1 with a group? This is all about using time effectively, not wasting time, out of the map (exit via arrow or travelling scroll) and directly back into map1.
So, BP should think of methods affecting the bot users only but not the regular players.

BTW, to identify somebody as a bot user based on our own subjective perception (leaderboard points) can be misleading, as described perfectly by cdeepal.
There were 2 cases I could surely identify bot using - when you can watch them wandering in the city due to an obvious malfunction. They were riding towards q3 entrance, but turned around on the stairs, riding to Levander's locker, turning around, towards the stairs, and so on. This was going on for several minutes (until I got bored watching ) with the exact same paths and exact same time periods - no lag can cause this.

Anyways, we will see if BP is interested in doing sth against bot users (which may be not impossible but complex IMO).

 

I'm sorry, I may not expressed it very well.

cdeepal what I meant to say to Akageshi is entering dungeon instantly not an indicator, and entering dungeon with delay is also not an indicator as it is also the behavior of normal players.

cdeepal & Rhysingstar, as I said.. most likely.
Of course we can not blindly suspect a players such you guys as bot user.
If you assessed solo leaderboard points as much and as long as I did, you would knew which players that could be suspected using bot. And the indicator is as I mentioned above. My assessment will exclude players such you guys that are.. for instance not on top of particular and/or overall leaderboard.
They are using machine, they will create such a pattern, not only moving pattern, but also the leaderboard point pattern in period of time they are online. And the pattern get stronger and stronger in period of time.

While normal players would secure their gold bags first, and if they are actually competing then they would strengthen their position in particular PW. It does not make sense to me, certain players did 1M point in Q1 with 0 time & boss kill, also 0 point in other PW. But this player actually have the access to Q9(another assessment is to follow this player in Cardhun). Why this players did not secure as many as gold bags as we did? And when the season ended this player only got gold bags from 3 PW, while this player had the opportunity to get 9 gold bags.

In addition if you are among of the real(non bot user) solo leaderboard contenders, you would know what your competitor capable of. Because all who compete put an eyes to each other position. And will do strategic move that may differ in new day, that bot user most don't care about strategy. At least top 4 of the contenders would fight until the last day, top 3 would fight until the last minute, yet bot user don't care to fight, they keep doing their daily pattern.

It's not assessment in days, but months.

 

I think there are strong hints and weak hints. No real proofs. A proof would be a trace that players leave on the server - I bet there is some somewhere in the data.

If the character keeps running the same path over and over, it's a strong hint. No human does that or is even capable of such repeated pathfinding.

As for entering dungeons instantly, it is possible, but no one does that or can even do that.
I tried clicking the entrance arrow from afar and attempted to guess where exactly will the ENTER button be located on the screen when the entrance window pops up. I mean some people might have been playing so much that they can push the button without having to point. Perhaps out of a sort of muscle memory or whatnot. But I doubt it.
So entering instantly is a strong hint, imo.

Leaderboard points are a weak hint. It's fishy if someone has millions of points in Q1 and keeps grinding it over and over, but what if they just like grinding Q1? I know, it's not very plausible, but still possible.
But on the other hand, I saw a player the first day of a new season who had over 600,000 points. That's even more fishy, I guess, but still not impossible(?)

 

Catching a bot is very easy ... it only needs a script that will track the cursor down. Very simple
Human using a mouse has non-uniform speed movement, reaction, click ... etc.

 

That's exactly what I did last season (finished 2nd or 3rd with my SW) and for the most part have been doing this season with my DK (I expect to finish in the top 5, time permitting). I actually like that map as it is short and easy to clear. I run map 1 over and over and over until I get completely bored.

Now with that, my overall rank (all dungeons) suffers as I barely make the top 100 if I'm lucky. If memory serves I was like 111 last season.

Considering there are only a few hundred players on Tegan being in the top 200 is guaranteed, so we all get some form of participation award on the ghost server

As for spotting a bot, it is actually pretty easy if you pay attention or if you spend any time on youtube where the morons proudly display their efforts for the world to see.

Trak is completely right as there are plenty of games that use scripts to catch bot users in real time. No need for massive sweeps every few years.

 

There are tons of methods to catch bots if only bigpoint wanted. You don't even need to get into behavioral analysis, there are easier methods with memory scan to catch the injections, api marks if it's networking (bots use certain methods and send certain information they assume the server is expecting, those methods are being slightly rewritten and deprecated, but letting them to work for a couple of releases to mark the botters since the bot keeps using them unaware of the new methods/data structures which normal players would use), etc. But again, few years without a single ban, botters are proud they will never be caught.

 

I'd like a "dislike button" on some of these , as well. The NPC ideas is actually a good one. In Varholm it takes less than 30 seconds to get through shady Jon's NPC to get the shining silver essence, with multiple clicks. One click takes nano seconds.. really. it would not take a perceptible time away from the materi glasses. And if you run out of time, open another materi glasses like the rest of us. Obsession about the time to click for a NPC quest is just that.. obsession.
There are a lot pf players who have obsessions. Yes, you can click from afar and get in a door. Ive done it. Perhaps that depends on the computer you are using. The main focus it seems, is about leaderboards and getting ahead of others . I suggest, ... and I know there will be quite a lot of opposition to this, but it does make the playing field more level,.. is to limit the top 5 slots to one time, then they cannot get the slots again for the next season/ cycle.
It's always the same people over and over getting the top slots. Its a monopoly. Monopolies are not fair. It discourages others from even trying, because the same people are always on top. That suggests its not the achievement of being #1, but the ego and perceived status of always being #1,#2, #3, etc. It looses meaning after a few seasons. Its just ego. Ive lost respect for those repetitive winners. It means nothing now. There are plenty of capable people out there who should deserve the slot once a while. But every effort is squashed by the top players ( always the same) just adding on a few million more points to hold their slot. So take away the ability to do that. Limit the top slots to one season, then no matter how many points they make, they can't get the top slots next season or seasons. Let it rotate naturally, as it should be. Its funny when I see the names on the top slots every season, yet rarely see the toon in PW. Im on all the time. All the time. Ill see some top players, but it must be the #1 people are always in a map. Curious. Never see them in the urban areas. Maybe just mis-timing.. but curious.
DSO should break the monopolies somehow. If you win a top slot in one season, then you are ineligible to win the next season. Simple. Yet, even then, the same ones who are just under them over and over would go to the top and back and forth. I originally thought 3 seasons. Yes, I know. everyone will be against this idea. Just as they are against a simple NPC nano-second interaction.
Most of the people I know only do the first map of an area and get gold. There are some that focus on achievements and do the second map, after finishing the first 100 kills. Then they move on to the final bosses, or do the end bosses somewhere along the way.
Not everyone plays the same way.
Observations based on how you play, and the differences, don't make someone a bot user. I do know there are vast differences when using different computers, as well as internet connections. Doesn't mean someone is a bot user.
Securing gold in each area is what some do. Some work to do their boss kills (100 each area) in one area, then move to another. So that is no indicator. Immediate entry in to a map is no indicator. No final end boss kills in areas is no indicator. People play differently, and isn't that wonderful? I'd hate to have to be confined to the way some think we should play as stated above. Some do a predetermined amount of runs in each area per day. Say two in each map 1, one in map 2 of each area, etc. just having map one is no indicator of a bot user. Some can only do map 1 of an area, or really enjoy that versus the next area.
Everyone is ready to judge, but have few suggestions on how to stop the monopoly on leaderboards or limits for abuses. Everyone has a reason why this or that can't work for them. Then come up with something that does work! Im asking for the monopolies to be stopped. I could care less if someone bots for materi, or glyphs, or gold, or gear to craft, since it takes nothing away form me, or another player. I don't think rewarding the same people over and over for monopolizing the leaderboards is right. That takes away from all other players.
Its my opinion. And my opinion is just as valid as yours. Just stop trying to accuse everyone of being a bot because they do things differently than you do. Come up with some solutions that could easily be implemented. A NPC interaction is a one time programing change that could work. Limits on monopolies in leaderboards might help others have a chance to make top slots for once. It doesn't benefit anyone but the self. Tracking users by DSO could work, yet be more involved to implement. Having everyone video and turn in others is a witch hunt. Stop the reason to bot.. stop the benefits so it's less attractive to use.
Also, Isn't it on Dragon Rise that they - everyone- gets a bot to use supplied to them by the game? So the bot is made by the game for the gamers to use freely? Not sure, but had heard that. It appeared the game became more popular as a result. And, Im ok if Im wrong with that info... everyone has the right to their beliefs and opinions. Myself included.

 

1. Other games run bot programs designed to catch those who use bots. No need for extra clicks. Yes it may be quick, but why should I be punished/forced to click when the dev's could simply run a program hourly/daily/weekly and stop the cheaters?

2. As far as the same people winning the leaderboards is what it is. I'm never going to invest the time needed to lead on a dungeon, let alone multiple dungeons, but that is my choice. If someone wants to put in the time (as long as they are not cheating) they should get a little something for doing so. It's not something that breaks the game, and I feel that there are more important things to worry about at this time (just my opinion).

 

I will probably never run for the leaderboards because the time it costs and the pressure of getting there would take away the fun of the game. However, for all those wo do want to get to the top and who do get close, but always just miss out because it's always the same people winning... I actually think what @sjwing suggests, isn't such a bad idea.
Without such a system, the 'rich and powerful' get even more rich and powerful and the gap between them and other players will only become bigger. Unless of course they get tired of playing DSO and quit.

 

-For a bot to get into a PW, the program coding must include that bot "accepting" the "entrance" board into that pw. The same thing can be done with an npc, just going to have to switch the coding around. This probably wouldn't be that difficult, if a programmer/hacker was good enough or determined. I really don't condone botting because it is extremely unfair to us, players that work hard to make our characters the right way, but coming from a family of computer programmers, I am just saying if there is a will, there is a way sadly (