Feedback GAME REBALANCING FEEDBACK THREAD

Phew, what a mess of a thread you have here.

I've been waiting for the changes to reach a more "final" stage, if you may, before jumping into the fray, but I'll drop a few observations...

• The new wisdom system, I'm not in love with it, but it's not as bad as it looks, considering that we'll be able to cap even the silly commodity talents like "speed on hubs" when we reach the max level, it looks good, I'll povide some accurate numbers some other time, but we won't be "losing" much when comparing it to what the current wisdom tree provides, given you're on the current wisdom level cap on live servers, it'll stay almost, if not the same, and we'll start growing even more from there.
• I absolutely hate the "Mana Crystal" being gone, it's well known that some end-game SW are relying on high mana pools for PvE to increase their DPI, now instead of having that absolute 25% and a bit of mana regen, we have a crappy absolute flat +20, please make it so that instead of adding +1 per point invested, it¡s 1.25% instead so that we can keep the 25% more resource when capping the skill, I don't know how impactful this is for other classes, I use the talent in all my alts but they're too weak to accurately talk on how impactful or useful they are on average and end-game builds, this change to the resource is a low key nerf for everyone who uses the resource talent, and also diminishes the value of the solstice stars, which were being positively affected by this talent as well.
• We also have a huge problem here, has any of you devs taken into consideration that when in a group of 5, with all the group auras, talents and what not, we'll have a massive amount of icons from buffs above the skill bar?, this doesn't just look poorly done, it represents an actual issue because we've been telling you for years now that if you click on top of the icons your toon does-not-respond-to-the-commands. Costume, pet, guild bonus, prem bonus, mount, cosmetic auras, group auras, group effects, own buffs from skills, buffs from other skills, food items, event buffs, temporary buffs, 3-4 types of new buffs implemented, bloody hell, has anyone seen the screen?, this, ideally, needs to be addressed before it hits the live servers both for cosmetic and actual gameplay reasons.
• For all of you complaining about the "super buff" for lightning strike, that is a 99% PvE oriented buff, and, the main purpose of it is to keep the mobs or boss "electrified", mostly bosses, so that when we need to run, kite, evade, or all those things you say we SW should be doing, we're able to hit again with the electrified buff without having to rely on crappy chain lightning or wasting a non-buffed LS to reactivate the debuff on the boss/mobs.
• About the destruction changes..., meh, Meteor+Magma armor ftw (even if I use Q4), but you did screw the skill a wee bit with the 2 point talent.
• The frozen sphere changes..., I dunno, I appreciatte that it is now going to deal consistent damage at all points of the explosion, but I'm still deciding on the "exploding on aimed spot", on a personal level, I'd rather have it explode after few ms upon impact, which takes me to the next point, what I don't like, and fellow SWs might kill me for this, is the fireball-like range it has when aimed at the corner of the screen, I'll be straightforward with it, feels like too much, we've been living with the mid-range in PvE, having absurdly long reach (edge of the screen) won't do any major good for PvE, but will have a nasty collateral effect in PvP (save this post lol), after the exploding mechanic changes, a 1.5x increased range would have been more than enough, on my personal opinion, maybe I'm missing another crucial point and this is in fact a much needed buff, feel free to debate it with me.
• The new elixirs, buffs, and trinkets from the "alchemy" system say "disabled in PvP" (bless Agathon, lol), good, but I do wonder about the materials, how much will we be able to save up on that new "extra bag"?, will the plants and ores stack up infinitely or will they cap after a certain amount?, you provided little to no explanation about the whole system, not sure about a lot of things in this regard.
• Please, give back the attack speed to DKs with the 5 point talent in Banner of War, it's a PvE oriented talent bloody hell, if I get caught in a banner of war in PvP, I deserve all the beating I get inside it.
• I agree on the removal of the "Outcry" or "Battle frenzy" damage talent, it's a skill-less free damage source for runners and healers in PvP, and pretty inconsequential in PvE, you're turning it into a buffing, healing and damaging move at the same time, put it in perspective, and reconsider, really.
• What about solo play?, I mean, I appreciatte the changes, I really do, but it seems to me that you're purposefuly making it way harder to solo as a way to encourage group play, we'll get some reworked skills, some bits and pieces added in wisdom, but still feels like the bulk of it is oriented towards group play, you're making the mobs stronger, and although I believe that, when this settles, we'll be stronger as well overall, the solo game experience is taking a hit here, and you're not even adjusting the leaderboard point system accordingly.
• You could have given some group experience points to those temporary merchants on TS so that we could test them more thoroughly, it's one of the main highlights of the release, ain't it? (Or am I stupid and mised them lol?)

Few observations said the guy who likes to write entire walls..., but I'm out of time, we'll see if I find the time to keep going at some point.

 

Hi everyone!
English isn't my native language. I apologise in advance for any mistakes ^^

I've been playing DSO for 5 years with some shorter and longer brakes and I haven't seen before an update so messed up. First of all, wisdom talent tree: It's great that we have up to 200 levels to get but there are not so many talents worth taking. We increase our 2H weapon damage, normal damage, critical value, critical damage, attack speed, some defensive ones and... we're left with with about half a thousand points to spend on worthless passives. The 300-points ones are pointless. It's nice that we can raise our critical stats with wisdom. Missing additional travel speed is not so nice though.

Also, I see a lot of people here crying about DK being too strong. I understand, three ranged classes versus one melee. Three groups cry because one group is different... and different must means OP, right? The difference in basic damage is almost non-existent, but... Ranged classes have skills with much higher % damage values than DK. On top of that, they attack from a distance. But hey! Knight has much more better defense...



Armor and resistance values are the same. Knight has 30% more hp than mage and 18,9% more hp than ranger though. Really? Is that so OP? In times where you need 1-3 hits to kill an enemy, 30-20% HP makes such a difference? Knights with 2H builds on PvP are cannon fodder. The problem is with 1H ones who go full defense. BP gave knights health regen so 1h could tank bosses for group raids but I doubt that they had thought about it's impact on PvP experience. Even now, killing 1h DK with end-game gear is nearly impossible. With R_208 coming to our servers, wisdom will be blocked on PvP, halving damage for all the players on arena. I don't think that this is a right step in fight with 1H DK.

When it comes to PvE. Of course, all of the classes got buffed. Even mobs got buffed. Buffing rangers was unnecessary, but they of course get buff... Only DK, like always, got nerfed. Monsters deal now 3x more damage. Who is gonna suffer from it the most? Of course the knight. Knight who fights in close combat. For example. Let's take a knight and a mage with similar stats. If mage has 40k Hp, Knight has 52k HP. But after the update knight will be so strong as if he had 17k hp.
2H DK are nothing in PvP and now they're going to be nothing in PvE too. Players who belong to guilds will switch to 1H and start tanking but 2H DK playing solo will be only left with thoughts of searching for another good game to play around with.

So, let's summarize:
- The new wisdom talent tree is really good but it still needs some tweaks
- Buffing ranger was unnecesarry. EA was already powerful enough on PvE and too powerful on PvP
- Mages deserved the buffs. A right step to make him more efficient in PvE
- Leaving DK behind worries me by a lot. Once again changes make him worse and this time they hit him in the most stupid way possible. People complained about 1H DK because of his regeneration but what do we get? 2H DK nerf so he becomes unplayable and buffing 1H DK to make him stronger.
Great, just... great...

 

Here is my feedback for the newest changes and are NEGATIVE.

Change wisdom (new inventory and craft) is a great idea but I would have changed only that for now.
I play 5min in group yesterday and the graphic effects are too much for my eyes. All map was filled by effects (aura, turrets,...) and I can't see other monsters.
I do not want to think what will happen after playing 1 hour or during events or challenges.

I see that base damage was changed, now all class have 360dmg at level 55.
With new release:
mage: 468 dmg
dwarf and ranger: 425 dmg
war: 360 dmg

108+ damage becomes thousands after calculating bonuses, enchantments, essences
Removing only a royal ruby (60dmg) from my weapons I lost, without essences, 1.200dmg so for 108dmg the lost is about 2.100.
Without %dmg on weapons the lost will be about 1.100.
If we consider critics mages can do 5.000 dmg more than war based on R207 wisdom.
In future we can have much more % dmg.

In past, before level 50, the differences in dmg was only 15-25 and there aren't so much enchantments % dmg like now...108 dmg now are immensity

A BIG THANKS!!!

When I will do a rebalancing I try changing only 1 thing at time examining the changes in game.
If I change 50 variables I can't understand which variable causes an unwanted changes.


So I'll change ONLY wisdom, inventory, new ingredients for crafting.
After 2-3 months change skill and if all is well balanced I'll try to change base dmg.
Wisdow don't affect PvP so, for example, war don't have +80% health, he will be a sloth (specially when he carries flag) but other class will have 5-6.000dmg more than now...how do you think the fight will end?

 

New Wisdom Talents: I like most of them.

For this group talent, I would rather give less critical hit rate and also give critical damage... so it will be still useful even for groups that have 80% critical hit rate.



For the new changes on exp skill of ranger class: I think the new 5pts talent of "dive" is totally useless, at least as far as PvE is concerned. I find more useful the previous effect of 5pts talent or with some other effect suggested by other players.

Blade Dance: I prefer the previous talent effect that undoubtedly can make the difference.

As for tonics etc.: I like it when someone makes use of them and when we stop the game at the same time pauses the effect.

However, it would be better if the cool-down time was similar to the duration time.

Since, if someone uses it before it's over, it does not add up to an effect, it just renews its time, it will save us from wasteful use.

It would also be good if the tonics etc. could be placed in the new ingredient bag and all the cores without exception.

For the end, I would like to give us more space in our bag than the capability to sell our items from "wisdom menu".

Surely, we will have a better "picture" when we can test the new changes with our main players on the live servers, especially for new group talents tree.

 

Can anyone help me? On test server are some new sellers who sell items based on flowers from the old new moon event . The question is where can I get those flowers too?

 

It's not that non-DK classes can use Wisdom Talents in PvP... How can they have 6k more damage then now, if they can't have %damage with 1H/2H weapon, %damage and all?
But, maybe I misundertood what you were referring to, writing

 

It is no cry from DK I said that "rebalancing" game must not me made in this way.

I think only removing wisdom effects on PvP will change things so analyze this change and only after made more little change to "adjust".
Or change base damage now and leave wisdom effect active on PvP.

For me it is OK give other class more base dmg like in the past and it is OK to remove also malus on ametyst.

We want rebalance game but if I give something and remove others I can't undestood what is good and what is bad.
Rebalance must be made at little steps not changing all.


Without wisdom and with green essences I got 130 dmg so with 108dmg base I'll get 280 and I don't have much % damage bonus.
In PvP critical damage bonus works so 280 dmg become 1.400.
Instead war loose much of his defensive stats from wisdom (hp, block) so he must compensate changing some bonus on items loosing more dmg/critical hit-damage.
Movement speed was removed for all class but if a war now need 5-6sec to get close enemy in future there want much more...so other classes have more time to hit him.

I would know: why at level 45-50, when dmg are much much lower, game developers choose to remove a "little difference" of damage? And what is the reason now to give +30% of base dmg on spellweavers and 18% to dwarf and ranger?

I think, peharps I'm wrong, that removing wisdom effects is much worse for defensive bonus than offensive.

If a class loose 10k dmg without bonus (from 30k to 20k) and a war loose 120k hp (from 200k to 80k) it is not same thing.
Without considering block, armor, resistance (with them formula is similar):
now 200k hp / 30k dmg = 6,67 hits (doblue with armor, block, ecc maxed)
after 80k hp / 20k dmg = 4 hits (doblue with armor, block, ecc maxed)
with less movement speed % success hit vs failure is bigger

 

I tested lightning strike skill today. My conclusion is that lightning explosion is useless. I detected that it creates randomly hits during 3 seconds. Sometimes 0 hits and sometimes up to 3.
Also I noted that lightning strike has cool-down time 1 second. But in fact it is without cool-down. I can use it so much and quick as it was before.

 

While doing bossfights om testerver on my mage it kinda frustrated me when Ice missile doesn't let bosses 'cover in frost', that way we can do 1. 25% more dmg (wich is not much but still, it helps) and 2. can trigger the Q8 set, (or at least the unique bonus from sigri torso) wich helps for doing lightnings and frozen spheres (because of the stack for crits that lower the mana cost of it). I think this should be very logic to let this happen, I mean, rangers can mark bosses as well right? And even reduce their movement speed, so it would be fair if mages could also make their ice missile more viable by letting the bosses cover in frost. (The reduced attack speed and movement speed that is together with the ice missile doesnt have to be there, just the covering in frost thing)

For dk's the smartest thing is to give them back their 5pnts of their banner and perhaps give them a bit more defensive stats on items etc.

Besides this, I have farmed Q3 on mage and dk about 4 times, dk simply does it wayy faster than mage so please dk stop complaining so hard.. Believe it is not as bad as you think it is. And in pvp you can still use your heal skill to annoy us even more !

 

At last they put lvl55 all at once to test the game well on the test server,
I really congratulate you, I was waiting for you. My pj is dwarf so just think about it,
and then is not wrong the dwarf hitting with criticism, it will be very good for the new dwarves who no longer
started with the disadvantage of lack of sapphires.

But it seems to me that there are still things that could improve,
for example if it is no longer possible to make the turrets hold 2 or 3 blows,
at least they should return the ability to recover steam in "the tactical turret",
I always used it and it helped me a lot in farmear alone, both in bugs map 1-2 as boos,
but now that I just went in boos q1 and without the tactical turret + turrets destroyed
in one fell swoop it's just running and running foolishly spending essences.

 

Stop with this whining all of you becaus this is the wrong threath to do.
The tanks in this threath have proven the understand nothing about positioning and how crutial it is period.
We see them whining about the -35 percent atack speed ( which no other class has ) so reee tanks unplayable bb ( other classes also got changes this aint a nerf this is a change, a nerf will be -50 percent dmg on smash permanent without anything given in return)

An actual feedback remove, or shorten the time you need to mine the items i clicked a lot of time by mistake and i pretty much am dead because i cant move 5-6 seconds, which in inf 3 is pretty much always gonna happen
Remake the price for the buffs, because a buff that gives 4 percenta mana aint woth 50 gold ill always get the + 100 mana.

 

A small piece of feedback for release 208 (I 've got a ranger in TS):

The new death swing is far better than the older one: +5 concentration points for every hit is absolutely fantastic and combined with deadly blow's concentration regeneration per killed foe,it offered me a seemingly endless amount of "resource" and it outweighed the change of blade dance's 3rd talent.
Scatter shot was ok too.A good combination of armour reduction from both this skill and SM's bomb could make regular mobs amazingly easier to kill.I 'm glad the new elixirs don't disappear everytime one dies and most of them(like the one that increases critical hit rate)are trully worth it!
Apart from that,I think that precision shot should be boosted for bosses (lets keep in mind that not all RAs use q7 set).
The wisdom talent that saves you from death is a bit extreme,justifying up to a point the increased difficulty,though I believe that the other one causing 50% of your damage to stunned enemies is even better(especially if you visit Emilia in Kingshill to make it 100xmore efficient guh guh).
Damage is almost cut in half in PVP (irrelevant).When we reach lvl 200 in the live servers,I believe we 'll get even better than we are now.So far so good I suppose.

 

In my opinion, they have cut too much, leaving only 35% from the effect of a bloody cut.
The more so if someone uses the set with q4 it will be colossally felt.

 

All right folks. Enough is enough. We mods have been very lenient for the past 10 days, but today is spring cleaning. I have temporarily locked this thread and all posts that are not feedback and/or constructive criticism will be deleted. The thread will be reopened after cleaning is finished.


UPDATE
Cleaning is now completed. Be warned, we moderators had to spend a fair amount of our time fumigating this thread.
If you are unsure what sort of feedback is being asked for, please read this thread.
If you can't stay on topic and provide constructive criticism, there will be significantly less leniency this time around and vacations will be handed out.

 

Jesus Christ this Thread was a mess...

Tank DKs needed nerfing in PVP, not in PVE, thats a fact. 2handed DKs were maybe just a little bit too strong in PVE - i dont like the new BOW 5points skill though, its kind of useless how it is on the testserver (maybe change so it synergizes well with the Q4 set by giving it some sort of bleeding effect and increase dmg on bleeding targets?). 2hand DKs should still remain strong in PVE because imo its a really fun class to play, be careful with the changes!
Speaking of the q4 set... this set is most likely only used by mages, make it so it is usefull for other classes too.

SWs deserved the buffs, i think we can all agree on that (i really like the new frozen sphere, feels very satisfying to use it )
Removing wisdom from the PVP is probably a step in the right direction but we wont really know how much will change until it hits the live servers.
I dont like the pick up animation for resources, remove them or make them shorter.
I like the new potions/buffs and gem crafting.
The core bag is great, maybe add a bag for essences too (some people are running around with 700k blue essences )

 

Experience talents is same for PVE and PVP.
I think as long as they are not separated, any strengthening or nerfing will affect on both pve and pvp .

So if developers will not nerf DK then it will damage a play in PVP(DK is too OP). But If developers will do it then it will damage a PVE.

The same story is for SW. In fact this is a story for all classes.

 

They changed the stun durations for PVP. They can change heal amounts for PVP too.

 

First of all, in regards to feedback on the changes in the SW class -

I'd like to give a big kudos to DSO for revising the frozen sphere skill, it was a skill with great potential but was sorely in need of serious editing. Aside from the travel speed still being quite slow, the changes to it were very appropriate. With that said, I do think the travel speed of frozen sphere still needs to be increased a bit more in order to be comparable to the other classes' main attacks, albeit not by much.

Secondly, the ice missiles have been edited down a bit, which reminds me of revisions on the Q8 set and the overall ice missile skill that still seem to be immensely necessary.

The Q8 set was designed to offer an alternative playing style option to using magic missile (as most of the pw sets are designed to do, offer alternative ways to play focusing on different skills in the classes). On paper, the ice missiles in Q8 set were a comparable replacement to using magic missile in that it reduced mana costs while magic missile earned mana, slowed enemies while magic missiles earned a small bit of hp, earned additional damage as magic missile did with talent points, etc. On first glance, both skills seem to offer comparable performance capabilities.

Unfortunately, the ice missiles were not and are still not a viable option when playing against bosses, because they are unable to provide any of the necessary functions (i.e. mana reduction, additional damage from talent points) like magic missile still can when facing boss monsters. This is presumably because the bosses are currently immune to frost and the ice missiles need to hit "enemies covered in frost" (as stated in the descriptions) in order to activate mana reduction and other necessary effects. Because of this, the Q8 set is still quite ineffective outside of non-boss maps.

As quite a few others have mentioned before, the ice missiles should still offer mana reduction and other functions against bosses in order to be a comparable alternative to magic missile. To share an example, using ice missile + frost sphere no longer becomes a comparable alternative to using magic missile + frost sphere in boss maps, whereas in non-boss maps they are similar as intended.

If the DSO team does decide to revise the bosses to be susceptible to frost effects from spellweavers (since they are already susceptible to rangers’ marking from arrows), I suggest that these effects can be greatly reduced in strength or length of time (i.e. 95%-99% less strength or 95%-99% shorter duration of frost effects on bosses from ice missiles and marking from rangers’ arrows). That way, the bosses are still pretty much almost entirely ‘immune’ but the ice missiles will be able to function as intended.

Alternatively, I also noticed that the ice missiles currently "pierce" through the bosses, similar to rangers’ arrows, albeit without any of the frost effects of course. The mana reduction and other functions could even be granted from attacking 'pierced' monsters/bosses instead of attacking "enemies covered in frost" just by changing the wording/requirements in the descriptions.

As of now, the simpler and better solution seems to be that, as mentioned before, the bosses can be made susceptible to frost effects just in name (while the actual duration and strength of these effects can be reduced greatly/almost entirely) so that, while the frost effects are still pretty much useless in boss fights, at least the ice missiles can function properly.

The change of lowering ice missile damage from 40% to 30% also adds on to these issues because already, the damage boost for attacking frosted enemies does not work on bosses. Thus, currently against bosses, ice missiles neither give mana reduction nor do they give talent point frost damage; that plus this recent change of lowering ice missile damage is a bit concerning, indeed. It may be useful to look at the rangers and their skills (i.e. hunting arrows, marking) as a model to redesign/revise the ice missiles for spellweavers.

As always, many thanks to the DSO development team for all the work they do! Keep it up, friends.

I may follow up with some thoughts regarding testing of the other classes as well.

 

Can someone please show exactly what has been done to dks thus far I mean skill wise?

 

regarding that feedback if the missle dealt 40 instead of 30 there wont be a reason to use MS anymore since 3x40 is 120> 100 for magic msisle and it will force the mages who dont use it to use it. I prefer grimmag robe but if they make the debuff procable on bosses i am forced to use it since it will be better because i can shoot then use thunder and repeat untill enternity(18 mana thunder is better than 150 mana with grimmag robe ). Q8 is giving you a new spell to use instead of MS, so i dont think it should be changed whatsoever. If you want spell spam build for bosses you can just get q4 but grimmag s robe and khalys pauldrons .

Ice missle is now perfect the dmg is perfect and the range feels really good . The change is more f ocused on teamplay but whatever it makes the game feel unique again in a way and the thunder update oh my cant wait to use it on live servers.

About the only thing which im corned is the buff costs , Please dont make them cost 200 gold each or smt . 50 is ok or maybe 100