Mages vs Dwarfs

I just noticed the Mages skills vs my Dwarf skills and I really want to quit this game now. Why the drakensang team make Mages almost 3 times stronger than Dwarfs???
We complain about this even before CE but again you make them so much stronger than everyone.

Mages fire skill hit from far away when Dwarfs need to go very close to mods to make dmg

Mages singularity -60% elemental -60% armor
Dwarf oil just -40% fire resistance

Mages mind control and guardian can also make farm everything without even the help of a Tank
On the other hand Dwarf in a box skill can only taunt enemies only for 10 sec and deal very very few dmg compare to mind control and guardian of the mages.

Mind control and Guardian can taunt enemies of the mages almost for ever

I stop here as are the basic skills in the new CE , I don’t go more far than this and compare Mages additional ice skill from big Bosses because then Dwarf is totally useless compare to Mages

one Mage with the taunt skill from Guardian and Mind Control plus the Singularity can clean everything for fun with just a Fireball skill and all that from far away

I don’t ask for nerf the mages as everyone call for that even before CE (but the drakensang team make them stronger and stronger every time ) but I ask for improving the totally useless dwarfs skills and especially Flamethrowers range and Oil .

Flamethrower must hit from far away like Fireball skill of mages and Oil must have the same stats as Singularity . Also the dwarf in the box must taunt enemies and fight same way as mind control

we want equality and not a game made only for mages . About rangers and warriors I don’t know their skills tree but I am sure that they are also unfair build compare to mages as always

 

The 4 characters in the game are very different from each other. Each character may have specific problems. It is wrong to compare these characters with each other, because a Dwarf cannot be like a Mage. A Mage cannot be like a Dwarf.

All characters are different from each other. Therefore, what you need to do is not to compare the mage with the dwarf, but to report the dwarf's problems and their solutions.

This way, I think each character's problems will be solved faster. I don't think any character's problems can be solved by making a character comparison. What game developers want to know is the problems of the characters you play and your suggestions for solutions.

 

You are so clueless that I don't know where to begin.

SteamMechs do massively more damage than a SpellWeaver.
SteamMechs get 2.5 times as much health on items than a SpellWeaver does.
The Guardian doesn't Taunt. That was taken away with the CE.
The Guardian only last 10 seconds, and only gets 1 non-penetrating shot per second regardless of the SW's attack speed.
The Singluarity now has a cooldown longer than it lasts, unless there is a Dwarf in the group.
The SM's MachineGun hits _every_ monster in a line at 5 to 10 times _per second_ for 30 seconds with crits and only costs 6 essence. That's 150 to 300 attacks to multiple monsters x base damage with added crits. Compared to 3 Guardian's 30 shots that only hit 1-3 monsters and costs 18 esssence (6 each).
Without mindcontrol, the mage would never get to attack because we'd be spending all our time running away to keep from getting one shotted by about everything.

And now they've made the fireball only penetrate 3 monsters. Come the next Wendigo the SW will be useless against him cause we'll never ever be able to hit him unless he's close enough to smack us down every 4 seconds. It's just lucky that the BUG in Khalys' first map has huge minions and we have to position so that we can actually get fireballs to the bug, that is once we get thru all the little jabaxes.

 

First of all i am not against Mages and i dont want to Nerf you , you are the best by far in the game and at least accept it.
I want only to make Dwarfs equal to Mages.

When i compare the two classes Mages like you come to say about Health and Essence all the time .
Health and Essence is useless compare to overpower of the Mages and every day i choose Damage over Health and Essence.

We are Dwarf Mechanics and we must have the most dmg against hordes in the game, i just ask about equal dmg and i dont get it why you get angry.

MachineGun is useless , its really useless. After CE only Flamethrower is able to deliver dmg and maybe your Fireball penetrate only 3 mobs but you cast million fireballs from far away. With Flamethrower you must go close to mob and you are dead.
Oil is nothing compared to Singularity and Doll is nothing compared to Mind Control.

The 3 basic skills that everyone using right now and Mages are better in every one of the 3 skills.
How is this fair ??? You mages not only have way more damage but with mind control and singularity you destroy everything and you can deliver millions of damage

 

We agree that we need to improve, but this approach is flawed.
Compare an apple to an apple, a dwarf to a dwarf.
There will always be a difference between an apple and a pear, because if it were the same, it would be just an apple.
Watch yt videos and you will see what you need to use, set it to be good / better, if you still have problems with the dwarf's abilities, suggest to the developers what to fix.
Peace

 

I wonder if those crybabies who complain about another class' strenght are useful idiots or shills of BP to give an excuse to nerf another class and increase farming for resources even more tedious to frustrate into paying.

Besides, this one is a newbie, he doesn't know anything, he probably got destroyed in pvp by a mage( much more skilled than himself) and now comes here to cry and vent with their tempertantrums.
Scram and learn to play or maybe, learn to understand that it is pointless to complain about class' strenght when the game is completely unbalanced from its roots.

 

I am not crybaby I speak with facts.
You see in every one of the basic skills Mages are made better than Dwarfs.
Fireball vs Flamethrower
Singularity vs Oil
Mind Control vs Doll

You can easily make 6 million dmg when Dwarfs would die near a mob because of their cr@p flamethrower

Also I don’t play pvp and arena ,
But even there everyone get angry about Mages. They make you everywhere better and all other classes want to leave the game because it’s so much unfair.

Again I never asked about nerf your class, I ask about improvement of Dwarfs to be equal. So what your problem??? You disagree that Dwarfs are the most unbalanced and weak class after CE ???

 

why I must compare Dwarf to Dwarfs only??Both classes fighting against the same mobs and try to pass as more dmg as possible.

So we are EDIT to farming but we must not complain but compare one to another and no one must speak about mages and how much better they are build ??

we go to farm and everyone ask about mages and maybe rangers , no one want dwarfs and DK. So come to play with dwarf if you know how to build it and give me your mage .

Accept the truth that Dwarfs need to improve and that is the best for the game

 

because as you said, dwarf is dwarf and mage is mage is not it?

 

No you speak your EDIT because it's not an argument, assuming you're even a real account and not a sockpuppet of the developers or their shills to draw support to nerf the mages and increase yet again farming times for everybody.
Or you're just a useful idiots to them, which is just as bad, if not worse.

Now scram, newbie, you're not welcome here.

Except we know your tactics, newbie, so don't bother pretending.
Besides, how can you even talk about balance when the game is broken, possibly beyond repair?

 

I dont want to nerf Mages , I WANT TO IMPROVE DWARFS.
Its always about Mages in this game

See in the chat everyone ask about Mages, we need Mage , last slot for Mage etc.
Dwarfs and DK are useless right now

 

So Dwarfs must be cr@p and Mages must be the best everywhere and if we speak about unfair balance you come here and say dont compare to Mages.
Give singularity and fireballs to Dwarfs then and go play with stupid flamethrower and Oil

 

If you think mages are that good, then you should play with mage.
If you have problem with the dwarf's skills, then write down how the developers should modify it as you would like it.
...so dwarfs will remain dwarfs and not mages.
I hope, i was understable.

Peace

 

Did you bother to look in chat? I don't think so.

I'm not sure if anybody cares about group effects nowadays, but before CE it was "need mage" or "last slot for mage" only when there was already a whole group built from dwarfs and rangers other q7 suckers and they needed some crit dmg, because they were all just noobs with an op set after all...

Aside of the group effect thing which made some people want to have 1 char of each class in the group, there were two kinds of messages that were widespread in the game at a time:
"need second and third dwarf, 3/5, have tank" and "4/5 need pro dmg no noob no ranger"
Of course, such messages were mostly written by noobs, but hey, noobs are always the most vocal.

Returning to the topic, what's so OP about mages in your opinion? Fireball that can now hit 3 enemies in a line for about 130% and in the past it could hit 3-4 enemies standing next to each other?
Ice missile that can hit 2 enemies for about 140% while not stacking the buffs it used to be used for before CE?
Chain Lightning that can hit 3 enemies for up to 150%, usually dealing less damage?
Magic missile that can hit 1 enemy for like 140%, but can theoretically heal you - if you finish off something with this skill?

Oh, I know, you are talking about singularity, which deals quite a debuff, but only in the center of its center, so for one target only?
And what is mage going to use during this time to make use of armor break? Basic attacks described above?
Guardian of flames perhaps? Ah wait, dwarf deals what, 5 times that damage with just the automated turret?

Also, your flamethrower deals like 180% damage, so... range < damage dealt, especially that dwarf has more base HP than mage, also in items!

The games is so broken that I am not even going to do the math to prove you wrong, I'm just saying you're wrong and that's it.

The only class with a right to complain is ranger, because it's almost a one-skill-wonder once again - at least it's about a skill and not a set now. Also, not even ranger is considerably weaker than the other chars, it's just... improperly designed.

 

Hello people,

I'd really appreciate it if you could keep the thread civil. I'm sure you're capable of discussing issues without throwing names and being mean.
If not, I guess I'll have to close the thread alltogether.

Good luck!

 

Exactly, you can't even talk about balance now, since the game is broken, irreparably so.

Besides, mages have lost one of the best crowd control skills they had, which was frozen sphere.

Maybe at the start of the of the CE there were people wanting mages, but i see less of it now( and even then, those who discriminate against classes were always noobs, i don't think it is a wise idea to listen noobs' ideas about damage).

Also the newbie OP doesn't understand that a nerf to singularity will actually damage everybody, not just the mages he hates( for no rational reasons).
Which makes me think this account is either run by a newbie crybaby who yet again ends up being a useful fool to BP or yet another sockpuppet of the developers looking for an excuse to increase farming times and further destroy solo play, since armor break effects are vital to keep farming times some what decent.

Are you even playing the game? The only time i saw a specific request for mages was at the start of this "CE", i really haven't seen that any other time.
Besides, those who fixate on one class in a group are newbies( such as yourself).
Everybody who knows how to play knows that you should not look for just one class.
Actually the most optimal group as at least 1 member of each of the four classes, with the bonus 5th member being a random class.

besides, for years everybody was always looking for dwarves and warriors, it's still is like that, sadly.
Sounds like you're complaining about losing priviledge.

I remember the time where i, as a mage, couldn't find groups because everybody wanted dwarves and only dwarves, with one warrior, while rangers, mages and damage dealing warriors were out of luck.
And i remember the times where tanks dominated the game and without them you couldn't do anything and without them the group would be destroyed, which led to many tanks behaving like scum and abusing their priviledge.
This has never happened with rangers and mages.

 

I am not noob i had OP Dwarf before CE , now i must play with flamethrower that need to be so close to mobs and killed for fun everytime.
Also i never said to nerf Mages or Sinularity.
I compared Singularity with Oil because i want Oil to be equal to Singularity.

So i actually ask for a Flamethrower with a range of Fireball and Oil with elemental and armor reduction like Singularity.

It is so hard to understand it??? Noone want to neft your mage, we want to improve Dwarfs because we cant play.
Try to play with the short range Flamethrower and then come to tell me what do you believe

 

Noone can farm without Ice Mage right now , Mages are the OP like always was.
Fireball hit 3 enemies but you can also hit from very far away.
With the short range of Flamethrower you cant even hit before they kill you

If you dont like Singularity tell them to give you Oil.
Are you serious man??

I write here about Dwarfs problems that need to fixed and i wait for you mates to understand this and support the idea of improved Flamethrower and Oil because its broken. But you come here to attack me and say lies that Mages are not so good and you afraid Nerf.
My post is not about Nerf Mages but about Improving Dwarfs and especially the 3 skills Flamethrower,Oil and Doll

 

In a world where solo PVE is close to non existend and PVP is a huge mess, calling for a nerf on other class is pretty pointless. However after I decided to return in the game first think I asked my friends was , ''Who is busted and who is the lvl 55dk now''. They all said Dwarf is terrible compared to Ranger who is the strongest at the moment. I've played a bit, got some stuff to improve my dwarf and honestly only one think can make dwarf better is Dwarf in the box, if they increase the hp on that thing I will be pretty happy,(and maybe the hp on base stats and Items but that's too much) other solution that fits OP is making the bomb instacast, nerfing its damage (e.g between 100-150%) and removing it's cooldown or the same treatment with Heavy shot ( I don't have problem with playing with Flamethrower melee range I can survive without problems ) Maybe you have weak items/ wrong skill tree and still you didn't get used to new playstyle

The problem with rangers in lvl 55 was wrong build everyone was going for karabosa and Herald cape. I still remember a friend going with q8 set and q5 pauldrons he could easily outrun me in solo runs.

Every class lost alot after CE and had to change their playstle, from my perspective Dwarfs lost the ability to cast 2 turrets at the same time blue turret no longer reduces the CD of the other skills (which is alot ) tesla no longer gives immunity, heavy shot as a skill. In return we got red turret breaking armor, turrets healing us, huge damage increase on shrapnel shot, Mine that have the same problem as hunting trap and that's it and Im not gonna count the useless Iron Dwarf (maybe im missing something). Overall I like how dwarf transitioned and for now I can't really tell how good or bad dwarf is because Im not even close to end game and for me end game is all that matters.

And whose fault it is ? Bugpoint, Instead of listening to the community and fixing all the necessary stuff asap,instead CM Jester just spams the quote ''Haha game is better then the last years so go brrr brave warriors return the glory of DSO !!! ''

Especially at level 55 damn if you can get 3 warriors and 1 dwarf you are really lucky ( not because all warriors quited and swapped )
Also the other reason is regional chat is full of noobs that will always spam such stuff without a clue, it's very rare to find decent group in regional chat especially nowdays. The end game of lvl 55 classes was balanced but we don't count warriors, they were non existent back then.
Welcome to circle of balance after some time (if the game doesn't bankrupt) there will be another thread again about class x is useless but class y is broken nerf it please.

 

Well, you nailed it, you just can't play, that's the problem. Not the dwarfs being too weak.

That's another problem. Dwarfs with the meta build were way too OP before CE. You got used to one playstyle... and well, here's what happens.

Oh yes, and next make all the classes the same.

You actually want to reverse the one good thing about the CE: classes being perhaps the most balanced against each other since the start of the game while actually being different and working different ways.

Or just make the cooldown shorter and make it cost less. Perhaps a little bit more hp too, but remember it's theoretically supposed to be just a small decoy with damage and stun bonuses, and not a shield-like tank minion. They could modify tactical turret to serve that role perhaps...? It's quite useless.

Nah, rather just increase the bomb explosion range, and alter the damage gradient (so the damage decreases slower with range), or remove the said gradient altogether. Heavy shot is good enough with correct usage.

That's for sure. The biggest problem about CE is it was rushed, and therefore went live terribly buggy (it's still quite buggy), and way too many people didn't have a chance to slowly prepare and figure out a playstyle. Devs also didn't help, because Jesse frankly can't play himself. If the official streaming person (CM or whatever would be the name) could play properly and showed all the different playstyles possible (it could be a group of people), it would help people a lot. But well, even the unofficial streamers jump the bandwagon and all play the same setup, while (and that's a think I like a lot) now most playstyles are on par when used correctly (with different pros and cons of course).

You are That skill doesn't synergise with turrets at all, but it's great for a correct non-turret setup. You may need some hp potions here and there, but it's great in the end. It may also be not for you - and that's the point, everyone can find some playstyle that works with them... and except for the ranger's Wolf Pack, one doesn't lose a lot by using one thing over the other.

That's it, pretty much. But, honestly, there are two other factors in that equation. Firstly, the (chinese-appointed) managers are influencing a lot of crap, like the slots in items being so expensive and the whole multitool mess. Secondly, they would probably lose their jobs if they postponed the CE release once more. Why they didn't have the CE ready for the 24 of november in the first place, when it was supposed to come in "late summer 2020"... that's a whole another topic.

If they want not to go bankrupt... and we don't know that for sure... they have to gain trust first. A company with trust of community can earn money from anything, because people will pay a lot for cosmetics, when they know they're probably going to have them in 10 years. And no, it's not only the company with gears that got exiled, I've seen it elsewhere and it always is that way, even when community scales are smaller than here. Stability goes first. They lost trust in their stability with their numerous thefts... the complete game rework in the CE didn't help, even if a rework of this scale was largely necessary.

Yeah, even for simple things. You start a group for the event start (opening the maps)? Like half the people comes without pearls, they don't even lie they do, they think they found donors or something...

In the end I am going to add I did test both mages and dwarfs.
With mages, I see the ice setup being largely supreme, but fire and even lightning gameplay is possible, and with a bit of thought put into it, not even bad. Probably some mix of skills with the poison mastery is also possible, but I've not tested such a thing.
With dwarfs, the turret-based setup with oil and fire mastery is probably the most straightforward and strongest, but both long- and short-range non-turret setups are possible... not sure about usability of the other elemental mastery talents though (but one can play without choosing an elemental mastery and do well!).
I haven't tested all the possibilities for the ranger out there, but all of viable playstyles I can think of make use of wolves, and thus poison mastery is simply the best choice. The fact that ranger is virtually forced to use that skill and 30 points of 100 max are almost already allocated are the problem that needs some attention. The problem is, nerfing that skill is not enough, because then ranger is going to be too weak. Other skills have to be rebalanced, especially the precise shot and deadly blow. Tree should also attack mobs, even if it is immobile... at least when 10/10 or more. And this brings us to the point I keep making:
All skills should have a 1/10 and 10/10 bonus, and those in the last row perhaps at least 1/5. Wolf Pack is an example of a well-made skill for that matter: investing one level (two points) brings in the healing, and investing the points brings in more wolves every two levels. Also, the elemental masteries have yet to be rebalanced, some being too weak as I said, and the second level being virtually pointless with its high cost and low benefits in like all the cases.
The dragonknight I haven't tested yet really, but I see a few really good possibilities out there (having in mind the tests I made when CE first went on the TS). This class is very strong now.

Edit (just noticed it):

Oh sure, especially during the time almost every dwarf wanted to play with other dwarfs only and one tank, and sometimes let a (q7) ranger in (early 55lvl, especially).