2 hand weapon and shield for dks!!!

Discussion in 'Creative Corner' started by Phyrix, Jun 22, 2020.

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Do you think dks should be able to wiel a shield with a 2 handed weapon?

  1. yes

    40.0%
  2. no

    56.7%
  3. Dedicate Q4 to it allowing the set bonus enable you to wear a shield pve only

    3.3%
  1. Silentstoker

    Silentstoker Forum Greenhorn

    Something like this?

    Passive skill "SWORD AND BOARD"

    Rank (current rank)/(max rank)
    Your skill with a shield goes beyond "defense" and straight to "offense", adding some of your shield's armor value directly to your melee attacks as physical damage:

    X% of shield armor added to melee attacks

    current rank X%
    next rank (X+(some value))%
    -requires a shield and any 1H melee weapon
    -requires level Y

    It's from another, a proper ARPG game and will need some adjustments, ofc. Also, it will be in wisdom skill tree.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
  2. Phyrix

    Phyrix Forum Baron

    1 youre using gwenfara shield but you can use any other shield.
    If youre already a dk with 80k dmg the q4 set bonus alone will bring your smashes in at 290%

    No it makes q4 the tank counterpart.

    So you will have q7 buff and gwenfara buff?

    You understand that gwenfara jewels on legendary level will give 225% damage
    So you will have 2h damage
    Q7 damage and smash speed buff
    and 225% damage <- which will be an additional 135% as it is
    and you think other classes wont cry?
    And whether an additional shield or a shield when wielding 2 handed weapons it boils down to the same
    My intent is to not make it too OP but still viable
     
  3. NSDT-returns

    NSDT-returns Forum Apprentice

    Yes. That's why I also mentioned a Q4 buff so you get 2 weapons options + the shield you wanna use

    Of course it needs some adjustments. That's why I said the shield had to either be active part of the time (10s active after a certain skill hits then 30s cd for example) OR that its value are to be adjusted.
    About set bonus you can adapt it "unique value and set bonuses stats gains due to shield are 50% effective" or temporary ...

    It obviously need some theory crafting + calculations of damages to make it useful but not broken.
    I'm not a warrior player myself so i don't know how much they need to get in order to match mage/ranger in terms of PvE (I just know and see how bad they are currently).

    Anyway I doubt they'll ever implement such an option seeing how the game is improving those days (sarcasm).
    Let's just hope content extension won't be the final nail in the coffin and will rebalance classes + bring new content + new useful sets / set reworks. It's their chance to give the wars a much needed buff and nerf dwarves while giving us something interesting to farm + the diversity we have been asking for ages.
     
  4. Phyrix

    Phyrix Forum Baron

    yy we are having a laugh on a social media platform atm no dks online
    Look as much as I would like to see a q7 dk wielding a shield especially gwenfara shield I suspect they wont do that
    However 2h weapon and shield excluding q7 is highly higly viable yy you give up your q7 buff but you gain insane dmg on a shield powered build
    I would rather have that than not be able to survive.
    Also making different suggestions though possibly good, makes the variety of options too messy to have someone make up their mind
    What im saying is let us not be greedy for q7 buff
    imo you do 290% smashes with q4 and you get 135% dmg thats a lot its bigger much bigger smashes than with q7
    fyi if you want 10% shield up time just use q7 with 3x dragan parts and problem solved
    this however has to be a lot tankier than a q7 build
    Well a much more applicable line would be as follows:
    Sword and Board: X% of your shields armor gets added to the base of your weapons' damage.

    This in turn would then allow the % to be multi-pliable by other modifiers such as damage on this item, weapon damage and % damage.
    I would say up to 30%
    less than that would actually be undesirable
    more than that would be game breaking but let me make an example
    if a T10 lvl60 shield has 3000 armor
    30% would then mean 900+240% x1.82 + 266% = 20383
    so 900 damage not really that wow I see
    this is mostly due to the idoti of the main hand item itself
    that 20383 you see there would push a dk up to 60k damage on a 1h weapon if his base is 40k on 1h
    Now the problem is you still dont have buffs such as the bearach % smash damage or the q7 50% smash speed
    Which in short would be utterly useless
    On the contrary you would be super weak totally unviable above infernal 3 pw maybe even useless on inf2 solo
    The idea is to make this a solo sword and board build
    So lets try again
    At 50% of a 3k armor shield youre looking at 73292 damage on 1handed sword and board
    Now if youre a top end dk like djbarman and you tell him his damage will drop by 30k and he wont have q7 buff hes gonna laugh at you
    So lets try again
    okay 100% is not possible because it will give dks 110k damage on 1h
    I think other classes will moan a bit, in spite of the fact that our skill damage does not increase so technically they would still deal more damage.
    lets try a little lower
    Aaand boom we have to get 60% of a shields armor for the sword and board skill
    which in turn will give a dk 85296 damage on a main hand and shield
    Not top damage but viable damage non the less
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020
  5. DreamWill

    DreamWill Exceptional Talent

    Imho it's easier to give on dks' 2h weapons a special line in the base stats like the rangers' longbows (-20% concentration cost) and the dwarves' 2h weapons (huge range on quick shot and heavy shot) with block rate that scales with the tier: in this way you have "a shield" inside the weapon and it doesn't affect pvp (block rate is useless without block strength, and in pve you can use runes, wisdom, enchantments or buffs to get block strength)
     
    DBS-Flamelurker likes this.
  6. Phyrix

    Phyrix Forum Baron

    No xD
    Then I would rather see that desert weapon you have for dks too
     
  7. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Count Count

    I'd like to see a deep dual wielding system for all the classes.
    You can wield 2h or 1h or in off-hand every single weapon in the game, each option offering benefits and maluses. So, you could be for example wielding Q7 weapon in main hand as 1h and Q4 in off-hand as 1h, but you would get -33% weapon damage to both... and attack speed would also multiply, which would mean an even slower speed than with normal 2h (0,694 base attack speed - actual outcome). Wielding a weapon as it's "supposed to" would give no maluses, but benefits from unusual usage could outweigh the losses.
    It'd be amazing, if they'd do it correctly that is, which I sadly still doubt...
     
    DreamWill and gbit like this.
  8. gbit

    gbit Forum Veteran

    I love dual wielding... Consider me in.
    The problem is:
     
  9. Phyrix

    Phyrix Forum Baron

    Not a bad idea at its core
    but let me up you one and down you two
    let me explain
    in a certain other game that one cannot really mention so freely on the forum there is a class that is called a barbarian
    they can really dual wield 2x 2handed weapons without any penalties
    in this very same game though a more tankey class can main hand a 2handed weapon
    But lets not talk about other games and lets talk about dso itself and why dual wielding would be a problem in general for basics.

    lets say you use 2x 1h weapons
    even if you nerf the damage and attack speed by 33% each the damage total will be greater than current 2handed weapons
    same with attack speed as attack speed is a weapon based speed iow lets say each weapon comes in a 0.69 thats still 1.5 base attack speed and that excludes the ability to add runes
    800*2-30% 1120 but you get to double up on rubies too
    but a nice game of give and take would be this
    let 2 classes dual wield aka mages and mecs
    then let 2 classes wield 2 handed weapons except for maces in main hand mace level damage comes with a 25% weapon damage policy due to its weight.
    And maybe a 10-15% attack speed penalty for main handing a 2 handed weapon
    Then all should be relatively fair
     
  10. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Count Count

    You didn't understand. It should multiply and not add. So, if you have two weapons for 0,83333... (actual value), the result is 0,69444... If you have two weapons for 1,00 it means 1,00. One for 0,83 and one for 1,00 means 0,83 - and so on. So no, it isn't 1,5 for two weapons - it's 0,69 for two (one has 0,83). Yes, it means that using two weapons for 1,18 speed means even higher speed.

    So, a weapon damage penalty (let's say 33%) for dual wielding to both weapons, whatever they are.
    On top of that, attack speed of weapons multiplied during dual wielding, giving a penalty when wielding 2x 2h and a bonus when using 2x fast 1h (and something in between in other cases).

    Yeah, wielding a 2h weapon with shield should have its consequences too - perhaps shields could add a power (so making slow even slower and fast even faster) to weapon attack speed? (eg. square it or something?) Or perhaps just a penalty to everything for logic. What about offensive offhand of classes other than DK though?
    On the other hand, how would dual wielding look like with a ranger? How would it be explained that a hoaxbow gets slower when used with a shield/quiver, when it has a quiver (graphically) already anyways?
    Lots of questions. And not much will to answer them, given how they implement our ideas when they even implement them at all...
     
  11. Phyrix

    Phyrix Forum Baron

    Which is exactly why I want to split the classes
    ranger and dk main handing 2 handed weapons and mecs and mages maybe instead then having how about base damage in your offensive off hands then, and or dual wielding.
    picture for example the off hand from gnob giving 800 damage in base
     

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