2H Build

Discussion in 'General Archive' started by Aries19, Oct 12, 2017.

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  1. Aries19

    Aries19 Forum Greenhorn

    I have a question but idk if is here to ask ....how exactly do u farm materi frags to buy the uniques needed.Is it like u jus run maps or is there a process n techniques.
  2. gun

    gun Forum Great Master

    I asked the same question while back ago.

    The point is to stack materi fragment buff.
    - Materi glasses
    - Daily mission
    - Runes
    Stack those 3 and farm the fragment by:
    1. Running Q1 or Q3 M1, find red book. If not red book, reset. If red book, only destroy all materi portal and reset.
    2. Opening the materi chest after killing Q boss. Skipping most monsters.
    If you strong enough to kill Grimmag or Khalys fast, Q1 & Q5 is the fastest dungeon to do method #2. Last time I compared both method in inf 1:
    Method #1 yield me roughly about 15k mf/hour
    Method #2 yield me roughly about 12k mf/hour + some loot from boss.
    Nostradamus88 likes this.
  3. Fugnuts

    Fugnuts Forum Master

    This.Also make sure that everytime u have a MF rune on your daily deal (daily ander spent) , you get it.Those give you from 50% to 100% extra mf when you have at 5 of them equipped.
  4. Hawkslayer

    Hawkslayer Junior Expert


    I wish I found this thread before I went and upgraded my entire Dragonache set, last event :p

    Thank you all for your insightful info.
    Now I have a road map to better my character.

    I was quite lost... still using the old Dragan, Dragonache, Keens sets.
    I only recently starting using the Bellicose Set (helm, gloves, boots) even though I had them in my inventory since the last Dragan

    ...guess its hard to "teach and old man new tricks" :p
  5. gun

    gun Forum Great Master

    The downside of using 3/3 Dragonache set is we unable to use Q7 set. But still able to take advantage of Q4 set, as you mentioned above that you use Bellicose set (helm, glove & boots). But the characteristic of Dragonache set it self is quite unique.

    10% Cd different may not give significant improvement in output damage. But 20% Cd we may start seeing the different. Dragonache set give 30% Cd, meaning the Cd being boosted quite significant. Though I'm unable to fact prove the efficiency & effectiveness Q4 set compared to Q7. But I do believe Q4 set can be comparable to Q7 set, the different is only the play style.

    I don't mean to confuse you. My suggestion would be.. see the potential of such items/set, and the down side of it.. is there a way to cover the down side or at least keep it minimum. If there is way.. how much effort to get there.. Assessment like this is very necessary to consider alternatives of development paths.
  6. Hawkslayer

    Hawkslayer Junior Expert

    Thank you Gun for your comments. While I spent the draken, I'm not set on it. It does the job for the time being, as my character has improved where I can easily farm Q1 in painful without essence. With all the great info here, I have better ideas as to how to improve, where as I was quite lost.

    I'm kind of a hoarder. I think I have a few of those mentioned items in my locker collecting dust. :p

    Thanks again guys.
  7. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    I've been doing a lot of thinking on this recently and the thought that came to me is that it is dependent on essence. While I may not have done the math from start to finish (namely to including "best in slot" builds for each set), my thinking is something along these lines.

    The Q7 set gives you 150% damage for three seconds, every 10 seconds. That 150% damage is the same type of % damage as the %Damage found on belts, helmets, torsos, Knowledge, and from essence. That means, if you have 39%(torso)+39%(belt)+50%(knowledge)=128% Damage as a starting point with many sets or other items may also offer % damage. With green essence, that means that +150% damage isn't going to increase your total damage output by 2.5 times... rather it will only increase total damage output by about (1+1.28+1.50)/(1+1.28) or x1.66, or a 66% increase. Now, if you are using blues or reds (like you probably should, if you are doing Infernal runs/boss runs), then you are looking at a x1.46 or 46% increase with blues, or only a x1.28 or 28% increase with reds. And remember, if you have more % damage from sets, you get even less boost from the 150% buff.

    Now, what about with the Bear's set? Because it offer's 25% more skill damage for smash and MWS, it is a flat increase of two of a DK's primary damage skills if used against a bleeding opponent. Many DKs use bleed on Rageful Swing to allow them to use chain stuns with Charge, so it is almost a given that the enemy will be bleeding. At first, you may point out that 25% more damage with only two skills is less than the 66%/46%/28% damage that you would get depending on your essence of choice with the Herald set, and you'd be half right. The Herald's set offers that extra damage for all skills as opposed to two, but it is only for 3 out of every 10 seconds. With the Bear's set you can have near 100% uptime for your extra damage.

    The question is, do you want 66%/46%/28% or less damage output over 30% of the time, or do you want 25% more damage at about 90% of the time (allowing for small down times between bleeds)?

    There are other considerations, which is what makes this such a complicated question. For example, the bear set also offers a 50% increase to your bleed damage, which you'll be using anyway. Then there is the fact that you can use a DoT skill like Dragon Fury at the end of the three seconds of the Herald buff but it keeps doing higher damage because it is based on your damage when you use the skill.

    Another other advantage of the bear set is flexibility. The gloves in the Herald set force you to use the Helmet/Boots/Ring combination of the Bellicose set to get the 3/3 bonuses. That costs you 6% 2H Damage (which is actually really good) from the Belicose gloves unique value and, by forcing you to use the boots/ring, blocks you from using other important DPS sets. Some useful rings include the Ring of Death, Bloodtooth, Tear Holder, and Agathon's Lost Ring. Some useful sets with boots include The New Moon set or Grimag's set, or even the darkness boots.

    Here is what I've got in mind for my eventual build (if I can get the items with decent stats and can augment them to T4+):
    Helmet: Bellicose w/ % Crit
    Shoulders: Darkness w/ % Armor and % Resist
    Torso: Darkness w/ % Damage
    Gloves: Bellicose w/ % Attack Speed
    Boots: Bellicose w/ % HPotI
    Amulet: Krampus w/ Crit Damage
    Cape: New Moon, White Queen
    Belt: Q4 Bear Belt w/ % Damage
    Ring1: Agathon's Lost Ring or Tearholder w/ Crit Damage
    Ring2: Bloodtooth w/ Crit Damage
    Decoration: New Moon, Black Queen w/ % ICotI
    Weapon: Q4 Bear Hammer w/ % IDotI

    Is it the optimal build? Maybe, maybe not. But it will be a good one, and I have most of the ingredients needed to work towards this build.
    bLaind and gun like this.
  8. gun

    gun Forum Great Master

    I'd like to add that. In practice Q7 players adapt them self to take advantage of Rage Attack to cool down skills faster.
    5x3% Rune of Focus drop Ground Breaker cool down to 9 seconds. 5x4.5% drop it to 8 seconds. And 5x6% drop it to 7 seconds.
    Let's say with no Rune of Focus. 10 seconds Ground breaker cool down - 3 seconds periode of Herald's buff, we wait 7 seconds for next Ground Breaker. Depend on how fast the toon able to do critical Rage Attack, eventually the Ground Breaker cool down would be decreased by some amount.

    For example we can do 2x Ground Breaker under Banner of War. After the first Herald's buff finished, we have 2-3 seconds window to cool down the Ground Breaker with Rage attack, so we able to get another Herald's buff that is still under Banner of War.
  9. bLaind

    bLaind Forum Baron

    I'm glad you've came back to your senses. :D
    The Q4 set is more flexible than the Q7 one which forces you to use Ground Breaker that I don't even use for PvE.
  10. EmperorOfThunder

    EmperorOfThunder Forum Greenhorn

    Am i right?or works on top of the final damage output...:rolleyes:
    25% more skill damage for smash and MWS
    Smash = 200% x (1+ 0,2 + 0,25 ) = 290% dmg with smash
    MWS= 200% x (1 + 0,25 ) = 250% dmg with MWS
  11. lightspearcannon

    lightspearcannon Forum Greenhorn

    Hello! This is a very interesting topic, I have been enjoying reading and getting the information. I am a "casual" player so I do not have much time to play and got lvl 55 recently. I have not even done all the Q_n dungeons yet! I have a few questions which you may easily answer:

    1) Have you done the math to know if the 100% damage increase of the Bloodmoon sword is additive to the "%age increase on this item" or multiplicative? I suspect it is additive.;

    2) Is it worth it to craft a legendary weapon with rank 1-3 bonuses (not strong enough to farm in Infernal) and transfer that into a unique weapon such as Bloodmoon or Q4/Q7 even though these eapons are only rank 1? (albeit with golden base damage, I was lucky to get such a rank 1 Q4) Maybe this can make my life easier to farm in higher difficulties than Painful;

    3) About PW uniques (boss set and Untouchables): do they drop only on the last boss, or can they also drop on other monsters in the dungeon?

    4) Any good place to farm blue essences?

    Thanks in advance!
  12. EmperorOfThunder

    EmperorOfThunder Forum Greenhorn

    1) additive

    -It takes more than just a gun to go on infernal ... needs a good defense (DK)
    -the spells are the same for any tier
    -do not waste time crafting tier 1 unique weapons
    -painful is maybe the best option to farm

    3) may fall from mini bosses

    4) Jetters :D
    What is your class?

    sorry for bad english
  13. gun

    gun Forum Great Master

    That is true strong toon may get more crafting ingredients by farming higher difficulty modes.
    But that toon already going through many iterations of character development process. And they all start from ground zero.
    The best difficulty modes to farm is any modes that is relatively fast for your toon to farm.

    It does not matter the rank/tier of the legendary. The craft result will use the unique rank/tier.

    It would be better to save your crating resources to at least rank/tier 3. What your aim from rank/tier 3 is the higher base damage.

    I think so too.
  14. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    You are correct, which actually means that it is indeed 25% for MWS, but only 20.1% extra damage for Smash. Thanks for pointing that out.

    Alas... I haven't put much emphasis on these runes in favor of % Armor runes and Attack Speed runes from the jesters/Zumpa... let lone enough to have a bunch of 6% runes.

    1) Additive. There are a verity of stats and they are always additive. For example, %HPotI can show up on runes or as an enchantment for gloves/boots/rings. All of these are added together and then applied to the base HP on that item/gems. So, if you have a legendary with 290% IDotI and you transfer it to the bloodrune sword, you get a total of 390% IDotI. The only problem is the sword's low base damage when compared to 2H maces. It serves mechs rather well because the weapon also has high speed for a 2H which also contributes to their turret damage, but, for DKs, I'd put it in the category of "sub-optimal" since higher speed and lower damage means higher essence use.

    2) As said, if you are going to be doing transfer crafting, the tier of the item providing the enchantments is irrelevant. The tier of the item you are transferring to is what matters. That said, if you have a 2H Q4 weapon with a gold line, it is a good candidate for transferring to for two reasons. First, that gold line, even at T1, is likely pretty good. You can also augment the item to T2, T3, T4, etc, for Augment cores. Sure, it is expensive, but finding a gold base line isn't as easy as we all wish it was. Second, if you someday get a T4, T5, or T6 drop with a gold base damage line, there is nothing stopping you from using soul cores to transfer the enchantments you put on your current T1 up to the higher tier. It would be faster than farming a whole bunch of augment cores.

    3) The boss items can only drop from the boss, but the Untouchables/Rings/Alliance items can drop from the mini-bosses at the end of each map and the main boss.

    4) Any level appropriate place you can farm with greens. Alternatively, you can "farm" them while gambling gold at the Jesters.
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  15. Demon

    Demon Forum Mogul

    I have use this sword untill now because i don't rafine my sapphires and i have use that speed for thrash mobs to make solo leaderboards on PW that don't require to clear second map. Is a good sword as long as you don't use that on bosses because there you don't have that burst you can have with q7.
    I have choose this sword because i think q4 set wont work on world bosses because they don't bleed , he has low speed so if i dont go to bosses then this sword is better because it give me speed to make fast runs and also i have plenty of blue ess because i usually play as tank.
    Another thing is the cost of this sword - you need draken cores and that is not so hard to obtain, i also use amulet and ring for 20% speed bonus + better life.
    Is a starter pack for every class (can be used without crafting them for a while ) , i have recommended this blood rune set as first set for every player in my guild until they have reach the stamina and dmg to farm final build.

    I will use this sword for some time until i will find another solution i think is the best solution for fast clearing the mobs. I don't like that q7 set because i don't like to be constraint with that skill and to always take care to have full fury pool before i proc the skill and also i don't like the fact that q4 works only on trash mobs where this sword rules.
    I would like to see more base damage on this sword to be more competitive on bosses too.

    Maybe i will make a bear weapon to see if has better results on inf 2 mobs , but i think the speed will have a decisive impact on final time but maybe will strike harder and i will need one two hit less than this sword. Will see.
  16. Saved_81

    Saved_81 Forum Master

    It has the highest DMG under "normal" environment (AKA without specific skill buff), the only one that can compete is Herald when you don't have any other % dmg enchants on the equipment and it also got nerfed but noone cared about it...
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
  17. lightspearcannon

    lightspearcannon Forum Greenhorn

    Thank you all for your inputs! It is definitively helpful and informative. My few intuitions were correct. I am a DK with Tier 0 Bloodmoon and Bellicose sets looking forward to update my gear little by little, in an efficient way, because I know it takes time and luck to gear up!
  18. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    It has the highest "%DotI," natively (uncrafted) but I don't think that it has the anywhere near the best damage when compared to crafted hammers, especially when you include DPH as another aspect of a quality DPS build. In general, my opinion is that if two builds have similar DPS, but one has lower attack speed (not super low like 1.2 compared to 1.7), then the lower attack speed build is better due to more efficient essence consumption and DoT.
  19. Saved_81

    Saved_81 Forum Master

    Not only it has the highest base dmg potential but it also gives the chance to get higher HP, highest ASPD and much more versatility on the rings.

    Before anyone with lack of spirit of observation could say anything, you need to check the avg dmg and not the max dmg.

    (the comparison it's for dwarfs but obviusly it's worth to mention for any class).
  20. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Yea, except that the set bonus offers no extra DPS or useful affects (other than a little HP). It also involves using sets/gems/enchantments that make no sense for any other class because they all need crit. Plus, you totally missed:
    That high speed build may have impressive DPS, but it only makes sense for SMs because their skills factor attack speed into the damage over time equation; a DK, SW, and RA DoT skills scale on damage only. Second, a turret costs the same amount of essence regardless of if their attack speed is 1.5 or if it is 3.0, but if you have double the speed with a RA, DK, or SW, you will use double the essence in the same time frame.

    If you have two DPS builds with 50k DPS, but one has a 3.0 attack speed and the other has 2.0 attack speed (not accounting for speed breaks), the 2.0 speed build is objectively better due to the DoT attacks being more effective and lower essence consumption.

    I won't argue that the weapon is good, simply that it is a small step below he Q4 and Q7 weapons for all classes except mechs. That is, unless they adjust how SM's turrets damage gets calculated like was hinted in the class balancing announcement.
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