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Well maybe others will quit crying about pvp and others skills.. if you all had not cried so much then the DK would have never been nerfed and all other classes would not need to be now,,

 

First of all that mage is a Pro.
Secondly, archers have higher HP
Thirdly, that mage went all offense and is probably running with 5-7k HP.
Last but not least, you don't need tons of dmg to one hit such a mage.

This is again comparing apples to bananas. You need to take benefit of what you have on the table. You have fast long bow, ability to use it with shield, and also dragan and get both defensive and offensive benefits of the set. Combined with few pieces of darkness, dragonache ring and other balanced items, you will be an archer with 10k-13k hp, tons of block, decent crit and dmg, enough to 1shot that mage. That mage, however, won't 1shot you even in 2h setup. Not even saying EA is much easier to cast than a lighting strike. If that mage wanted to go a balanced build, he would go 1handed, have less dmg, less hp, and he has no skills that could deal a damage comparable to EA. Only in 2handed mode. So it's all depends. I would surely like to give archers real 2handed. So you can try it and understand that no defense is not that much fun.

 

First, I don't play pvp, I was not comparing 2h mages with rangers in pvp, but for pve.
But, rangers having more hp? That's irrelevant nowadays, 1k more hp (or whatever value) won't help you in pvp because everyone has huge dmg. Fast longbows? LOL 0.83
But yeah overall ranger is ok for pvp.
But since I play mostly pve, I want the option to go full dmg like mages have. I will never be able to have 7k dmg with 50% crit and 300% crit dmg. Sure, to have 7k dmg you need to be very lucky with an op 2h weapon. But rangers don't have that kind of weapon. What is the reason? Do we somehow have more dmg in pve?
And with 30% from dragan and 50% weapon dmg from the knowledge tree, the dmg gets increased even more. there's not such a big difference between the dmg when we're talking about average longbow vs average 2h. Maybe it's 3k vs 5k. But when you compare epic longbow vs epic 2h, the difference skyrockets in the 2h's favor. Because the more dmg, the bigger the bonuses from dragan and knowledge and also bigger bonus from the rubies. After 1-2 new content expansion you'll be seeing mages, tanks and dwarves with triple the dmg of the ranger (they already have double).
Our 15% from dragan is useless since the longbow is already much lower than a real 2h. But I didn't mind any of this because I had my explosive shot. But now they nerfed it, great -.-

Sure, you can create a kind of a balanced char with a longbow, like yogo's ranger, super tanky and also decent dmg and crit. But you can never get the kind of dps the other classes have.

 

If you are going to resurrect the Defend series, please give us a chance for the full set of items. The stuff from ancient times was melted long ago.

 

Mage cannot have 7k dmg AND 300% crit dmg AND 50% crit. That would an exceptional mage, perhaps one on the server.
You, as an Archer, can have 4k dmg, 80% crit, 300% dmg. That is not far from strong mage's 5k dmg, 80% crit, 300% crit dmg.yes, there would probably be a 1k difference in dmg, or maybe not that much. You have a benefit of quiver, so you will get tons of crit while mage would invest multiple items into crit exclusively to get close. You would use those items as pure dmg or crit dmg. It should be similar overall. Now, you still have ~2k more hp. And you have EA, and you have Marking, and you have better healing, plus hit's reflected from the wall deal double dmg (hard to use, but still). Well, I should check some of the longbows, I don't think you cannot go high with the right items.

Now think in terms of combination of skills. You mark mobs with something, EA followed by Precision, guess all mobs dead.

Finally, you have started your ranger long before r155, and it was much worse in terms of PVE. Why did you start it if what you have today isn't enough, surely wasn't enough in the past, was even worse)

 

I started my ranger 9 months ago, I had tank and mage before. I chose ranger because it seemed the best in pvp and I naively thought it would be the same in pve. I remember getting what at that time I was considering huge crits with precision from rangers. So I thought it would be fun to try it out. But the more I played the more I realized rangers are much much worse in pve than any other class.

They were not that good as I expected in pvp either. They were terrible actually because of one main thing: they always ran out of concentration. Even the green arrows depleted my concentration pool very fast. After r155 the ranger got improved because of the ES and the 20% concentration improvement on the longbow. Combined with the speed from the knowledge tree and the fact that green arrows don't require concentration anymore and they can be improved to deal 66% of poison dmg.

The blade dance can reduce the cooldown on all skills when you crit, which is awesome in some situations. On the other hand the deadly blow has been nerfed, the thicket of thorns has been nerfed (because mobs used to have 0 or close to 0 poison resistance, now they have 50%), the tree is useless now (except for bosses because it doesn't die in 1 shot like wolves). But overall the ranger has been improved.

However the ES nerf I feel was not needed, they could have balanced in a different way. It does nothing in pvp, people will still die the same in 1 shot from ES. I think the problem is that the burst dmg is too big. Maybe reduce the dmg to 500% total but also reduce the concentration requirements to 45 or something and put a 1s cooldown on it so you can't do 2 one after the other. This way it will be just as useful in pve, it will be less powerful but we'll be able to cast more shots and in pvp you won't see insane crits anymore.

Also for me it seems so hard to get to 4k dmg, I have to work very hard, I can barely pass 3k and I've been working very hard on my ranger. And many noob mages / tanks / dwarves can easily get 4-5k dmg with an average 2h and 40-50% crit.

The discrepancy becomes even more evident when you equip essences. Many 2h users have over 10k with blue, while I barely have 5k.

I have about 9k with red.... less than what good 2h users have with blue :/

Also I feel that the extra dmg you get on the weapon outweighs the dmg rangers would get on 2-3 "compensation" dmg items.
The dmg on the weapon gets increased by weapon multipliers, dragan / karabossa set bonus and also knowledge bonus. And the more you upgrade it, the stronger it becomes. (the same applies to the longbow, but the dmg is much less).

If you already have a very good 2h, it's much easier to get 3000-4000 extra crit, than it is to build up 2k dmg. You need 3-4 very good items for 4k crit (maybe less if you use gnob ring and dark set or karabossa). But if you use 4 dmg items, you'll only get about 800-900 dmg (with the bonus from the knowledge), and only the max dmg increased in case we use karabossa, or only 10% dmg increased in case we use dark set. Dragan is out of the question since we would lose too much crit and it's only 15% dmg, totally not worth it. So this is what I'm trying to say: the dmg on the weapon seems to me to be more efficient than the dmg on the items. I prefer to get all my dmg from the weapon and use crit items... than to use a small dmg weapon and to compensate by using dmg items.

Crit dmg is also an option I have considered, but it still seems that it's never enough to catch up with the other classes dps.

However, your points are valid too. The ranger does have cool skills. It's not as straight forward to judge as it seems at first glance because each class is made in a different way so it's very very hard to successfully compare the dmg of 2 or more different classes (apples and bananas? ), especially after r155. But I feel that the dmg when you have essence equipped is so broken for rangers.
Also to upgrade 2h = 92m. To upgrade longbow + quiver = 110m. True you get extra slots from the quiver but I wouldn't care so much about slots when I'm building a full dps glass cannon.

 

Ok. Agreed on the approach. I would love to see rangers dmg skills nerfed in terms of dmg but improved in terms of concentration, so they don't play hit&run.

10k with blue is even more impossible than 7k on green. Blue doesn't work with other bonuses, all % from the tree, torso, sets, RoD and essence sum up and are together applied to the base dmg. 5k on green is often only 7.5 on blue. Unless of course mage didn't go no crit setup with dmg only, then I can believe into 7k on green and 10k on blue. But guess what. 10k with 0% crit is the same as 6k with 50% crit and 233.34% crit dmg. Can you do that?)

In other words, quiver is a big difference comparing to no offhand. Good quiver is ~2800 crit. It is two okay lines on mage weapon, or 10+ lines on items which is ~320 dmg of base dmg, that's a lot.

Tell me stats of some decent longbows and I will run the optimizer with my items and will see the result). Mage will probably win the glass cannon damage output fight, in PVE. But the difference won't be huge, aND mage is sort of invented for being glass canon. And both mage and ranger suck to dwarf in terms of dmg output. And I have no idea about what is Ranger's avg damage per minute assuming he is using the skills the best possible way. I would actually appreciate this info, will later add to optimizer.

Ah, I even forgot about 5 extra slots)

 

You were saying ... what?
https://board-en.drakensang.com/threads/show-what-you-have.23784/page-13#post-636508

And notice the similar set up with less damage but higher attack speed (with blue essences of course ... because 10K damage is impossible)



And not to mention ... this staff is crap compared to some of the weapons in the "show what you have - SW" thread.

 

lol dso no longer requires player skills it just requires some luck and which character you really are. im sw and never have and never will use the new ICE skill we have because it requires no skill and for me its useless i like a game where you need player skills other wise i might as well play a coin toss in my bed much cheaper

 

okay okay you caught me) but few things.
1. He was talking about mage with 7k dmg AND 50% crit AND 300%. Sure I can get 7k, but with 'no' crit
2. Your image kind of confirms that. your crit is only 12.8% in this setup
3. you are using event/ander buffs)
4. you are using exceptional quality old witch hunter set
5. the median dmg is not there. sure you can say the max is super high, but I would rather talk about medians). the number is impressive, not a question. Btw, how do the old witch hunter % of max dmg work with essences, do they add to the essence bonus and all other % bonuses (for the max part only)? or essence multiplies them?

But, anyway, I did some testing with fake items. so I took an example quiver with 100 dmg, and 600+1650 crit. as well as few other variations. and I also took a longbow with 60dmg, 120% weapon dmg, assuming base is 85-127 (which Im not sure is right).

And I also said 'That would an exceptional mage, perhaps one on the server.') guess you are exceptional mage, one on the test server)

so that ranger max DPS was 1.4 lower than mage's max DPS with the same items. So guess its true, @misterbean you cant win a glass cannon fight, unless skills compensate.

 

Thx for the awesome optimizer you've created . So my feeling was correct, that the 2h gives you a more potent dmg that you can't compensate so easily from the items if you only use a longbow. Yes that 120% +60 dmg longbow would be a dream for me. You asked if I could get 6k dmg with 50% crit and 234% crit dmg... I doubt I could get such a high base dmg, maybe only if I had like an epic bow with 145% dmg and 68 dmg, upgraded to 55 and all items would have close to max values (especially the dmg ones) and upgraded to 54-55. That's the thing, no matter how much I try, the longbow doesn't allow me to up my dmg that much. However I can up my crit dmg.

Could you test which setup gives you more dps? mage has 240% dmg and 100 or 130 dmg (I'm not sure which is the max) on the 2h. Ranger has 150% dmg and 70 dmg AND 1650 crit (quiver) and 100% (or a little over that) crit dmg from the quiver, considering you are very lucky or you can craft a full crit dmg quiver. (I think crit dmg gives the most dps and it's best to get crit from other items to get 60-70% crit)

Also, traki's mage is his second char from the test server, maybe he's not playing it full time, I don't think he has glyphs, gems etc (or does he?). I'm sure there are people who can easily get 6k dmg with 60% crit and 300% crit dmg, because they are playing that toon full time and because they were lucky with an epic 2h weapon and also good crit, crit dmg items.

Also you can say that 2h users have more dps but rangers have bigger dmg from the skills. Well yes, the ES is 670%, but it also requires double the concentration of a lightning strike. And our concentration is not so easily replenish-able like mages' (or even tanks'). We could recharge with deadly blow, sure, but its dmg has been nerfed. It still does good dmg but the problem is that it works mostly in easy maps where the mobs have low dmg. Considering that you go for a glass cannon setup, it would be a suicide to go close to the mobs to hit with deadly blows, because in fatal mode all it takes is 2-3 shots from any mob and I'm dead (god I hate those annoying trolls).

Even as a class, the ranger cannot go full glass cannon because he would need to stay at a distance and he's not built for that, he can't spam green arrows (like I see many noob rangers do) and mimic the mages because green arrows are not efficient at all for big groups of mobs in pve. And he can't shoot big hits because the concentration is very scarce. The best he can do is focus on doing as much dmg as possible with 2-3 explosive shots, to do serious dmg in the enemy lines and also help the group by breaking their armor (that was my approach). But now that has been nerfed

 

Oh, trust me, he has gems) he has everything) will test it tomorrow. Going to sleep) 6am...

 

Good night !
And also can you test with blue and red too ?

 

I have see the new Dragonache and I'll be very upset if I have to get 12k Draken one more time and melt the old set wich means I already wasted 12k Drakens for .. nothing at all. So the question is, are we the older players who buyed the old Dragonache set and gonna get some drakens back or new set? I don't care wich, I (we) want something 'couse I (we) really feel like cheated.

 

You will be able to upgrade it. But glyphs...

 

Well I do not want to upgrade it's not even close to the new set ...
Bloodtooth 50lvl 990 Life 25% Increased Critucal Hit
Tear Holder 50lvl 50 Damage 7.5% Attack Speed
Dragon Shackles 760 Armor 620 Fire Res. 5% Walk Speed
Bonuse 2/3 +35 Damage 3/3 +135 Damage

 

DK numbers? Or numbers for all classes? I'maway from my laptop, and probably can't remenber my test server info anyway.

Also, is the price still 12K for the set?

 

Hey, I finnished today "Hall Des Todes" achievement Wind Of Death, when i went to city, i lost the achievement, i still have the title activated on my charather though, so could you please give me the points for it also, thanks

Hænir, ranger heredur

 

This is where you ask the CMs questions and discuss the topics brought up. You need to contact support not post here.

 

Are you sure? I thought this was the "My particular character class is really hard done by, while every other character class is waaaaay over-powered" discussion thread. My mistake.