Feedback Class Rebalancing - Steam Mechanicus

Discussion in 'Discussions on Current Topics' started by Mal3ficent, Apr 17, 2018.

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  1. Mal3ficent

    Mal3ficent Guest

    Dear Heroes of Dracania

    Please tell us the skills of the Steam Mechanicus which in your opinion still needs to be reworked.
    A short description why and how you would change it would be very helpful.
    Please try to keep it short and precise.

    If you are unsure what sort of feedback is being asked for, please read this thread.
    Any off-topic posts/pointless rants will be deleted.

    Thank you for your support.

    Your Drakensang Online Team
  2. Galvard

    Galvard Forum Mogul

    Speed up flight of "C14 Micro-Rocket"
    Straighten flight path of "C14 Micro-Rocket"
    Speed up bombs
    Speed up animation of "Heavy shot"
    Increase "Oil Slick"
    Repair bug with bonus from Q7 set - sometimes it does not work.
    Nobs, semen470 and panikovlimenos like this.
  3. cdeepal

    cdeepal Forum Baron

    Agrees with Speeding up and Straightening the flight path of the Rocket. However, this should only be part of a Wisdom Talent, so that this cannot be used in PvP fights. It would be really unfair for other classes if this is to be implemented in PvP because, Dwarves can do devastating damage to a stunned opponent. And if they can stun reliably, it would make a huge imbalance in PvP.

    Agreed with Speeding up bombs, but again only as part of a Wisdom Talent. This should not be done in PvP mode as it would be fairly easy for a Dwarf to perma-stun an opponent with the bombs.

    Same with Speed up animation of "Heavy Shot". Should only be for PvE.

    Oil Slick as good as it is now. I don't see a need for increasing it for either PvP or PvE.

    Oh, and the most important thing: Please give back the Tesla anti-stun capability.
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  4. darkwarss

    darkwarss Forum Apprentice

    1. "Bomb" - needs reworking OR a set that will put it in use, since I don't see a lot of people using it.
    2. When Q7 set buff activates, the cooldown of the "Heavy Shot" doesn't reset every time.
    3. "Tesla Turret" - It just need's the anti-stun buff that it had.
    4. "Tactical Turret" - Even tho it will be really strong, it still needs to give steam. Maybe not so much, but it needs it.
    5. "Shrapnel Shot" - I don't think that it's that strong to be on a 1 minute cooldown. Either needs lower cooldown or a buff.
    6. "Oil Slick" - Needs to be a fire-able skill instead of spawning under your feet (Who's dumb enough to run in it? That's PvP wise tho).
    lovatic66 and panikovlimenos like this.
  5. Novadude

    Novadude Commander of the Forum

    For what it is worth, the tesla immunity is kind of necessary for group play given that 4 second immunity has been removed and the dk's furious battle cry has a base 30 second cool down. If FBC was 15 or 20 seconds plus there was 4 second immunity after stuns for all characters, you can see the need Tesla immunity drop.

    (And then you could drop the 25% buff on agathon's mace and put something like 6% speed or +640 resist as the unique enchantment)

    And then the mandatory thought process that "we need tank dk + 1 or 2 mechs to starting building a group" approach will lessen in the game for boss runs.
  6. bassevents94

    bassevents94 Someday Author

    i play this game almost 5 years and all the time i play the time with a great volume of steam ( 144 steam or 150 steam)
    then i play with 2 mechanical turrets and 1 other.

    i can came now on the volume for skilled in the wisdom = adept inventor ( +25% incr steam and + 30 steam for each turret back)

    After r208 i cant anymore, i must go play with 115 steam

    you removed the adept inventor + you removed + 20 steam of each missle of the tactical turret.

    + for each group effect you must need 20 steam.

    And each turret costs 50 steam

    i cant figure it out how i then must play with so lesser steam.

    You have think about that????
    Give me a solution for my problem!
    lovatic66 likes this.
  7. AmarWilrick

    AmarWilrick Forum Pro

    Suggestions for Dwarf class :
    now the main skill (turrets is destroyable) ,BP need to make dwarf more playable without turrets.
    - Make Heavy Shoot with steam cost and remove the couldown.
    - In order to make bombs and oïl skills useful ,need to make them as launchers (bomb & oïl launchers )
    - Let's be honnest, removing mana regeneration from Tactical turrets was a big mistake,DPS classes must have this skill (mage have teleportation that restore his mana,Ranger have adrenaline, dwarf have... ? )
  8. KingsGambit

    KingsGambit Forum Expert

    Do you know that for now dwarf turret on test server is dealing 2,14 more dmg than on official + it has crit? :D It's outcome of mistake of course so the dmg after fix will be 5/7 of official server dmg but still... it has crit right?
    So all in all they are destroyable but you will get much higher dmg from them. So high that i think 125% value is still too high even with loses of dmg connected to speed decrease which will occur for increasing crit value.

    Bombs are fine as they are but they should inherit part of char speed, possibly 50% to make them faster and more effective. With that you don't need as much steam and you will swap part of dmg made by turrets for bomb spaming.

    Tactical turrets steam regeneration was cancer and its great it was removed. You have some regeneration from basic attack and you regain part of used steam for turrets naturally. Mage or Ranger doesn't get part of used mana/concentration for skills right? You do.
    In addition you got some slight buff of your basic attack so regenerating steam this way will be slightly less painful. It's not much but it's sth... On the other hand that is only nerf that dwarfs got. Even machine gun now deals more dmg. Tesla as well btw. as this is 150%*50%*3= 225% pers sec while on official it's 200%.

    For me balancing is giving somewhere and taking elsewhere. For you I guess balancing means boosting everything possible :rolleyes:
  9. Rhysingstar

    Rhysingstar Forum Ambassador

    Depends on what they are trying to balance.
    If the goal is to make all 4 classes as equal as possible, this isn't going to work out well.
    If the goal is between players and monsters/bosses, in the end it might be okay (once the wisdom is full).
    If the goal is to balance pve with pvp, again this is not going to work well.

    SM's are getting a nice boost in the end and that should encourage a lot of players to switch over to them as their main (if the new dmg possibilities makes its way onto the live servers).

    +1 to all that with an importance on the Tesla. This really needs to be reconsidered as this is very important for boss fights.
  10. AmarWilrick

    AmarWilrick Forum Pro

    You didn't get what i meant, you are focalised only on turrets. My idea is to give to the dwarf other skills to fight with, SM have so much useless skills, (bombs, oil slick, dwarf in the box, iron dwarf, steam conductor, shrapnel shoot) and now with r208 tactical turrets and tesla will be useless too. Basicly all dwarves have only one choice, to be q7 set slaves. I just want another useful skill other than MG turrets that's all my friend and not buffing the dwarf, thanks
    semen470 and Shansurri like this.
  11. Icke

    Icke Forum Greenhorn

    Dwarfs has only 1 straight chance to stun....the rocket. Its slow and on huge distance everyone can avoid to get a hit. And you think, its unfair to stun someone, to make Dmg? Mostly its working only for warriors when they are nearby.

    Sorry, but never ever only for PVE. In PVE its really not important, but in PVP i am dead cause everyone is hitting faster. And exactly therefor we need a faster animation.

    Bombs are not stunning. 5-point-skill: reducing attack speed and movement speed (Live server)

    1 of the useless skills for Dwarfs is the oil slick. Its reducing the movement speed. Doing nothing else than this.

    In all i am asking myself: are you playing a dwarf? Do you have any knowledge about this class and the skills?

    I think its fair, if the Dwarf is getting a second free of negative effects.

    That´s the point. So many useless things. The only thing we can do, is a bit damage (mostly addicted from Q7-set), and till now we are good enough to be a supporter with tesla. In PVP we are the laughing stock and everyone is wondering the dwarfs are putting out the turrets and running around or hiding?
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
    semen470 and panikovlimenos like this.
  12. lovatic66

    lovatic66 Junior Expert

    Good, there are many things that can be improved, but I will only focus on 2.:)

    1) The main thing is to bring back the tactical turret as the normal server,
    the dwarf needs a lot of steam to invoke their turrets and by taking away the main ability of steam recovery
    they make the dwarf play slower than before, this was a very skill useful for all dwarves, I felt
    even worse than the destruction of our turrets, in fact I do not care about our turrets destroyed,
    but I want the tactical turret as before, to return steam, I think the skill is very necessary
    because each tower costs 46 steam and we can only have two for which we have to wait until half of our steam
    is filled to continue invoking that sumale that our turrets die at one blow and leaves us without steam very fast
    (I'm talking about when we kill a boo infernal, for example Grimmag Q1) is only running while our towers are destroyed essence
    and stay with 0 vapor for many moments.:(

    2)Another thing is the speed of fast shooting, the animation is very slow compared to another PJ, now that all the dwarves will use critical, we will lower our attack speed when using q7 set to 1.80-2.00-2.40 attack, a reasonable speed, but Very low for a dwarf in comparison to a magician / hunter, for example, I do not ask to be the same, but it can increase a little at least.
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  13. -mauricio22-

    -mauricio22- Forum Apprentice

    Hello friends
    I have been playing for a long time, with the dwarf character. and what I can say is the following.
    1- Automatic turrets must have minimum 125% damage, if they place less, the blood moon set does not work ....
    2-the tactical turret must generate steam, it does not make sense to place turrets that increase resistance and armor, spending all the steam, if we spend steam on these turrets, how it is damaged, if you do not have steam.
    3- the turret tesla is fundamental to play in a group. if it is destroyed, how can we help the group?
    4-the skills that must change are, oil, explosive or bomber, heavy shot. they are skills that we do not use.
    4.1 Oil is a skill that nobody uses. it would be good. that barrels of oil can be thrown from afar.
    4.2 Bomber or explosive: does not cause damage, does not generate a good effect. It would be good to remove armor.
    4.3 heavy shooting: you should not have recharge time, to be able to use it better.
    5- motivate people to play. Make the game more enjoyable. if they remove a lot, people do not play, nobody likes to eliminate something they have.

    I only say that they motivate to play, not to leave the game.
    Shansurri likes this.
  14. Saved_81

    Saved_81 Forum Master

    My feedback will be a mix between what I've seen on the Test Server and what I would like to see to make the class more "versatile"
    - quickshot: the skill it's pretty mandatory (too much) for any SM thanks it's steam regen and aspd buff (which buffs also the MG turrets) the dmg it's pretty low, doesn' thave any cc effect or AoE. With the new talent on the TS it get't a little better because of the chance to apply burn (DoT) dmg mostly useful in pvp. Seems pretty balanced
    - mech turrets: with the addition of crit dmg they become an interesting source of dmg, I've tested them combined with q8 set and are extremly good, mixed with q7 set the cooldown reset it's extremly fast, I can understand why devs decided to limitate steam regen, if I were able to cast 2 of these turrets all the time, rocket c14 would out of cooldown every 4-5"
    - bombs: was one of the most useless skills for dwarfs, the new 5pts talent on TS makes them quite OP (324% dmg on autoattack seems too much) even tho, from my tests the skill isn't affected by aspd. The problem here is the skill DMG it's too rampant (as soon as you unlock the last talent you triplify the skill dmg which seems wrong) but doesn't last much because of the lack of aspd multiplier (paradoxically the better you are the less the skill is) and it's useful only when the mobs are static (because someone is tanking the melee attacks or are ranged). What i would change is make the 3pts talent something like "bombs will explode on impact", make the skill aspd affected, change the 5pts talent something like "regen 1 steam per mob hitted", increase 0.5mt AoE radius. The skill will be an ALTERNATIVE/complementary to quick shot with a lil more dmg, AoE effect, no speed buff, less steam regen against single target (so more effective against trash mobs but less effective against bosses).
    - oil slick: the biggest lack is the cast @ current pg position, make it cast @ cursor location put a decrease cost talent (3pts), increase the walking speed buff (10% for 2" would seem reliable) and the slow effect to 60% (80% with 2pts talent) because the logic would be to use the skill to "put some distance" between the player and the mobs but you can't use it to "save" any of your teamates, you can't use it to "prevent" the attacks, the 5pts talent doesn't work in boss fights so I would turn it into something more generic as an aspd/dmg buff or would decrease the effectiveness of the incresed skills dmg @25% but working also on bosses.
    - steam conductor: was 1 of my favorite skill to use when moving from a pack of mobs to another during the map clearing, a way to decrease the active cooldowns, regen some health, move faster when OUT OF COMBAT using steam I wouldn't have used anyway. Now I cannot benefit that luxury anymore because of the lack of steam regen (due to the adept inventor removal and tactical turrets nerf). IMHO the skill was well fitting the role I gave it and I would it back, with the current group effect it would a perfect alternative to the oil slick version I proposed or they would complement very well but the cost it's too high nowdays and the 5pts talent (5 steam cost reduction) costs too much, I would turn it into a 2pts talent and made the health regen a 5pts talent with flat 3% hp regen over 5". Make the 20% speed buff a 3pts talent lasting 2". Dwarfs cannot abuse it in pvp because they don't regen health as dk do nor have the same hp pool.
    - MG turrets: they are currently bugged so I can't say much, the feeling is they are gonna deal too much dmg, the correct dmg multiplier seem to be around 75% (not 125% as sometimes it shows on ts), the other option would be to leave them with the live server formula (without crit dmg) with the embedded nerf that they can be destroyed by opponents this will set their actual strenght against bosses because bosses will destroy then VERY OFTEN. The other talents seem pretty balanced (50% inc dmg on 75% multiplier is seems fine even if I can't test it correctly)
    - rocket pack: the 5pts change could seem a big nerf, truth is with the current changes it would have been hardly usable. The new talent, honestly it's a waste of points, the very least it could be added it's a fastening skill motion. ANYONE the used a SM knows that rocket pack has a freking slow animation, lower the 5pts aoe dmg and include a 50% faster motion is my suggestion.
    - heavy shot: this should be the second signature skill for dwarfs but it's usable only with with q7 buff, my suggestion is to change the 3pts talent to remove the 3" cooldown and make it cost 25 steam and reduce the frames of the skill, this would make the skill usable in pvp (basically in line with precision shot by RAs with the difference that RAs regen conc 3 times faster than SMs so it cannot be considered OP)
    - TACTICAL TURRET: ok this was the real nerf, I know a lot of players undertimate this skill and never used it but gave a massive burst to SM playability. Walking speed buff, defs buff, steam regen, pretty much everything I needed from a support skill. Without the steam regen, the defs buff splitted on 2 talents and the second turret for 5pts the skill is destroyed. The only good thing is I got 10 skill points to place somewhere else. I would put a 2pts talent for the secon turret (barely usable because there's no reason yo use it), 3 pts for the 5%res & def buff (it wasn't really OP if you consider the massive diminishing returns on those values), 5pts talent: give 2" stun/rootin immunity and removes current stun/rooting, basically you would move the old tesla buff to the tactical turret (btw fix the stunning skills dmg immunity when stun immune because that was the reason for some complaints by other players). On a side note the current steam regen on tactical turrets (group effect) benefits only the player hit by the missile but that doesn't make any sense, enlarge the missile's aoe to 5 mt and turn the resurce regen for every player inside the aoe
    - iron dwarf: the skill seems useful only for fast farming in mods you can 1shot mobs (thanks the 5pts talent) and that's pretty good for that but it should be improved a bit, I would increase the skill duration to 15" and make the special attack affected by aspd (currently it's not)
    - sharapnel shot: I would make this more usefull than now (I use this only to add some dmg when it's out of cooldown and most of other players just ignore this skill), I would chabge the 5pts talent adding resource regen effect (eventually as group effect), something like 10 resource/sec
    - tesla turret: I'm ok with the stun immunity removal, it's perfect they cannot be targetted nor destroyed, the dmg should be ok (even if I can't test it correctly as it should be bugged as mg turret) the only thing I would fix is they cannot stack, testa turrets SHOULD STACK. Doesn't make sense I cannoy use 2 turrets in the same place and my turrets prevent turret's dmg from other players. The 5pts would be also much more interesting if they could stack.
    Sry for the WoT but I wanted to give my opinion on every skill.
    Long story short: I agree steam regen could be nerfed but other skills deserve better buffs.
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
  15. Mal3ficent

    Mal3ficent Guest

    What we need in this feedback thread:
    What we do not need:
    Please just name the skills you think should be reworked and tell us how would you like to be changed.
    Avoid quoting other posts and getting into debate. This thread is not for debate, you can do that in almost any other forum thread.
    Do not get into conversation with other players even if you think their proposal is not acceptable or unreasonable. Just because you cannot point out the flaws of someone's proposal, that does not mean their proposal would be accepted and implemented in the game.
    Let other players express their thoughts and opinions.

    semen470 likes this.
  16. ThukMohl

    ThukMohl Forum Apprentice

    Here's what I think dwarf's skill that could be reworked and give another play style for dwarfs:

    1. Oil Slick: Slow debuff / Fire Marked
    Thrown into a desired location. If it hits an enemy/mobs it will be "Fire Marked" else will be casted in the ground and if someone step on it, will be "Fire Marked" aswell. The burn debuff triggers only if you shoot marked enemies with fire base skill. Option, other class fire skills works on it too.

    2. Bomb: Slow debuff / Electrified Mark / with cool down
    Thrown into a desired location. If it hits an enemy/mobs will be "Electrified Marked" else will be casted in the ground and sets off at given amount of time. Those who are in the explosion radius will be "Electrified Marked". If you use electric skill (e.g. Tesla) on marked enemies you will deal additional amount of damage. Option, other class electric skills works on it too.
    3. Jack in the Box:
    No need to heal the turrets. Give the healing percentage to the caster :) upon explosion. Dwarfs have no other healing skill beside steam conductor.
    With these skills, dwarfs could play as an offtank. Q4 set will be an option.

  17. lovatic66

    lovatic66 Junior Expert

    There were changes in the test server, the suppressive fire of the automatic turrets went down from 100% to 50%, I agreed to lower damage from the turrets, but it is too much.

    As a result, much damage was done to the automatic turrets, but already excessively, the suppression fire must leave it at least 70%, even the mechanical turret hits harder now than the automatic turrets.:confused::confused:



    DAMAGE of automatic turrets 15k per second and 22k with buff of q7, dwarf 23k damage, it seems very little, even less than in the normal server when we hit without criticism.
  18. AmarWilrick

    AmarWilrick Forum Pro

    need to rework :
    - MG turrets : its the main skill of the dwar, now in TS its making very very low dmg with the reducing on fire from 100% to 50% , it halfed the dmg. the main skills of the other classes can't be stopped, MG turret can be destroyed, so i think it would be normal that it will make bigger dmg than other class skills.
    - Dwarf in the box 5 points skill is realy useless need new one.
    - Tesla turrets 5 points skills is useless, need something else pls.
    - sharpnel shoot need big rework its useless and have 60 sec reload !!! it's not even powerfull.
    - Oil slick is the most useless skill in the game, need to be reworked, at least we can put it in the direction we want not Under dwarf feet
    - Jump 5 points skill is useless need to change it pls
    - Tactical turrets need to get back the ressource regeneration, all classes have a skill with mana restoring, only the dwarf dont have thx
    - Bomb skill is still too slow and take big time to explode, need to change all that.
    - Iron dwarf is good only for bring the flag in pvp 5vs5 , this skill need a big rework .

    lovatic66 and rick123 like this.
  19. lovatic66

    lovatic66 Junior Expert

    I like the balance they have made in the dwarf, I think they found a middle point now, it's not as much damage as before, nor as little as it was then, we inflicted an acceptable damage to have critical impact, I only ask for one thing if it is possible and what I see most needed in gameplay. :)

    We need the "TACTIC TOWER TO RETURN STEAM", without steam we are cutting our wings, it is very heavy to go alone, I imagine going to make the classifications alone, our turrets consume a lot of steam and we do not have too much steam to invoke many dwarfs surprise, the same happens in some boos to a greater extent. :oops:
  20. Bundin

    Bundin Regular

    1. Jack in the box: Remove it completly and give back the shield wall skill from the beggining with the following changes: The shield wall appears only on all active Towers and give them dmg immunity for 5s or until ist demolished.
    2. oil Slick so Long we cann not determine ist Position ist useless, or it must be not a slick under the dwarf than it must be 1m narrow but 5 meter Long or longer.
    3. Shrapnelshot: 11% Chance is low increase it to 25%.
    4. Heavy: shot slow too slow so slow like the mage dertuction only weaker why? Make it stronger or make it faster.
    5 Tactical turret give bakc steam regen or reduce the cost of the turret from 50 steam to 15 steam without steam regen this skill doesnt worth 50steam.
    6. Rocket pack: When tactical turret didnt give back steam then here pt5 Talent can change to Regenerate steam like mage teleport or archer adrenaline.
    7. C14 mikrorocket make it faster it's too slow and don't follow the enemy like the archer skill so make it faster.
    8. Bomb: it's too slow, don't count back blow up at impact straightway. And when the tactical turret and the rocket jump don't get steam regen than this skill can give by after every hit 1 steam. So when it's hit 3 enemy then give back 3 steam too.
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