crit for dwarfs

Discussion in 'General Archive' started by eHss, May 30, 2017.

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do you want crit on dwarf turret?

  1. yes

    12 vote(s)
    52.2%
  2. no

    11 vote(s)
    47.8%
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  1. eHss

    eHss Forum Apprentice

    @UndergroundKiller

    i remember on this event worst part of it was turrets in your path, boss itself was no challange at all...


    Why soo much anger?

    And plz read once again what i wrote up cause You misunderstood concept

    BTW. dwarf skills(10): basic atack, 2x steam turrets, 2x mechanic turrets, 2x red turrets, 1x rocket,1x jump, 1x tesla
    and everything you need to do with timing... You know everyone have right to have his own opinion, and i cant take off your right to have one:)
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2017
  2. Saved_81

    Saved_81 Forum Master

    Nah you were too short in the list:
    - Quick shot (basic attack): attack speed buff & steam regen
    - Machine gun turrets: main DPS, nice debuff (25% less dmg from affected mobs)
    - Tacticalt turrets: Walking speed buff, def/res buff, main steam regen skill
    - Tesla turret: secondary DPS, stun prevent
    - Mechanical turrets: cooldown reduction for c-14 rocket
    - C-14 Rocket: main CC/debuff and Q7 enabler
    - Rocket pack: main escape/debuff removal

    Optional (but actually too good to be ignored)
    - shrapnel shot: additional dmg (the only dmg skill that doesn't need steam) and secondary CC (if talented)
    - steam conductor: secondary escape/walking speed booster, cooldown reduction, HP regen

    Even more optional (but very good in some situation)
    - Dwarf-in-a-box: taunt/main CC (for solo farming)
    - Oil Slick: with Q1 set for a wooping 50% increased DMG on machingun turrets, secondary CC

    The good dwarfs will use at least the first 7 skills and if they don't they are severely cutting some part of their DPS/survability.
    The optional ones can be switched in and out on pleasure.

    Any dwarf with a brain will always use at least a 11th button for the essences swap.
    I'm actually using 13 keys because I also use an 11th skill on the secondary right button of the mouse which forces me to use also the tab to enable it.

    Dwarfs are really easy to be used... new universal rule.
    Sure thing, but you also forgot to mention that all the turrets will be influnced by attack speed, that multiple teslas will deal dmg in the same area and that there will be a full whipe for all the characters so noone will regret that, for years,they've trashed any item with crits related stats because they had no use for while they've spent real money to buy items that were focuses only on attack speed and flat dmg.

    We got the deal, I'm ok with this changement.
     
  3. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    Lets make it even longer :D
    Midgets can jump longer than any other class.
    They can simply skip great portion of many maps and take a shortcut to the map's end ... and that is a huge advantage over any other class.
    Midgets were never a garbage class ... they were lacking some HP at the start but that was fixed later on ... it was the players who didn't know how to play them.
    You are confusing skills with sets. My ranger is not using q7 set or 2h ... and it can't do that kind of damage (not even 1/10 of it). Remove the q7 set and you get the real skill-based character. That is not a case with midgets ... remove them from any set and they still have the skill advantage over any other class.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2017
  4. eHss

    eHss Forum Apprentice

    @trakilaki

    BP give to us long jump cause we have slowest jump in the game, and only 1 stun break

    Dwarfs on lv 45 was garbage, they have no chance on farm/arena vs other classes, as a class they offer nothing in arena and only armor break in farm soo. 50lv upgrade change them for good way. Even now dwarfs lost soo much vs other classes in arena (1vs1, 3vs3)


    I compared all calsses with the same set (q7). This is not my business what kind of set do you use, in this game for farm there is only 1 set q7 and as you wrote "it was the players who didn't know how to play them"
     
  5. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    Really? What about standing inside tesla ? Can you get stunned?
    A task for you:
    Estimate who is going to reach the finish line first in all difficulties (normal to infernal):
    a) Dragonknight
    b) SW
    c) Ranger
    d) Midget with "slowest jump in the game"

    [​IMG]

    Really? Let me see ... in that time when leveling was ultra hard ... I was able to get 6 midgets from level 1 to level 40 in 3 weeks (dwarven rally). So I guess it was not hard after all.
    Ah yes ...it is none of your business ... when you don't like the answer.
    But ... do you even understand what am i talking about?
     
    _Baragain_ and mike125 like this.
  6. eHss

    eHss Forum Apprentice

    unmobile skill, need 1.5 sec to activate and i want to see man that stay in tessla vs mages and rangers in 2 cm circle xDD

    anyone know about this shortcut, but you do not understand what i mean by slowest (from jump to landing its over 1.5 sek, not like other classes: Mage=instant, ranger 0.5 same like warrior)
    congratulation, every class you can do the same, but farming gorga normal is not the same like farm M2 or q3 lv 45 :)

    edit:

    @trakilaki

    are u sure that you know about what is this topic? Cause you just answers posts of other ppl and You did not mention anything about idea behind crit in dwarf turrets xD
     
  7. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    You don't even take damage from "negative effects" inside those 2cm
    You are mixing apples and grapes ... once you talk about changes for farming purposes ... but it is obvious your intention is PvP.
    I understand perfectly well what you mean ... that is why I gave you that example ... so you can take your PvP element on the surface.
    You see how you shifted again? Now you say the midget is like any other class ... but few posts ago you said they were trash :)
    Yes PW maps are not the same like the normal maps (especially for that particular time) ... but they were not the same for all classes not just the midgets.
    I am perfectly aware of the topic ... i never intended to reply until I had a need to trick you into exposing your true intentions .
    This topic is not a new and was answered before you even started this thread. We have had a lot of discussions on this topic in the past.
    There is your answer
    Now ... you are talking only for attack speed and turrets ... but what IF that is just another bug that needs to be fixed?
    Because I can't see any information in any description and tooltip in the game that is saying "your damage on this turret will be increased together with your attack speed increasement ".
    You want to attain big damage from the skills but you want to be able to crit. Well it doesn't go that way ... the damage should be decreased first.
     
    _Baragain_, bLaind and sebastian_fl like this.
  8. bLaind

    bLaind Forum Baron

    Amen!
     
  9. Saved_81

    Saved_81 Forum Master

    Where is written that they can't?
    Where's written that all the other skill can crit but NOT the summoned ones?
    Where's written that you can't have 2 teslas active at the same time?

    Another BS which clearly show you don't know what are you talking about.
    It makes you immune to stun-like effects, ice nova dmg applyes on frozen targets therefore you can't take dmg if not frozen exactly as you had Dragon skin active but you will take dmg from other stun ability like Charge from DK or any other skill (C-14 rocket, purple ball from minibosses etc.) that deal dmg AND a stun/root on top of that.

    He will never answer because he obviusly doesn't know what means that you have an escape that doesn't let you escape from anything since the mobs or whoever was chasing you will start attacking at your landing point before you even reach it.
     
  10. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Ehh, I'm weird... I think that we need sapphires brought back but with flat attack speed the same way that rubies give flat damage and amethysts give flat HP. Plus, I'm firmly of the opinion that no class should be able to ignore any stat without it making a significant impact on their ability in some way or form.
    Allow me to revise my earlier design for the turret skills. Keep the lower damage, allow them to crit, but make their tic rate affected by attack speed instead of the skill being based on a % of the base damage per second. A high attack speed SM packs more tics into the same 10 second window. That way, SMs would also experience a type of "speed break point" just like the rest of the classes too.
     
  11. Saved_81

    Saved_81 Forum Master

    Sure thing and what about the snapshotted rates? I'd say summoned skills shouldn't snapshot but reflect actual stats.

    All on this would be really interesting but there's the mostly limitating factor above any other:
    there must be a wipe of any character (included non sm classes) so anyone will start from the same point and everybody or noone could regret that spent real cash for something that got heavly changed years later.

    Obviusly there's also a better solution, it's called power creep: indroduce new mechanics that will lead also the SM to use crit cos, we all can understand, that not getting any benefit from crit related stats is and has always been a con and not a pro.

    Twin queen set bonus is a good example.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2017
  12. FAALHAAS

    FAALHAAS Forum Connoisseur

    I think this is a MUST. In PVP a mage's guardians fireball can crit me 2-3k high (and thats not even a very strong one) same for hunter wolfs/tree....they can crit pretty high. (so 2 of those hits and im death)
    My turrets need to hit enemy 10s of times to do close to that dmg.

    All i can do in PVP is use Iron dwarf and we all know what comes after that,. tons of purple chat sentences with: EDIT and more things allong those lines.

    Yes, give turrets crit and lower the irondwarfs power. (or remove crit from that)
     
    Last edited by moderator: Jun 3, 2017
  13. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    You are full EDIT ... I don't know what am I talking about but yet you already gave the answer what I am implying to in the next sentence
    Tell me about it EDIT ... I am all ears. :)
    The tree/wolves and the guardian don't crit :)
    Just like the turrets.
     
    Last edited by moderator: Jun 4, 2017
    UndergroundKiller likes this.
  14. FAALHAAS

    FAALHAAS Forum Connoisseur

    guardian does crit....VERY sure since it just happend in duel. Fireball from guardian critted me for 2.700 dmg. Other 2 im not so sure, since it didnt happen just now.

    I still think our mechanical turret needs a crit and remove it from iron dwarf.
     
  15. UndergroundKiller

    UndergroundKiller Forum Expert

    If you tried to kill the bear using any of the other classes you had to use x3 if not x4 the essences of a dwarf.

    I've ead enough, what you are asking to let dwarves tourrets, wich are 4, do crit, just by removing the attack speed multiplier from the machine gun tourret (wich is one skill). If you think your is a balanced solution, I guess you have totally not the idea of what "balanced" means.

    Also, imho a dwarf won't use all that skills during a boss fight. If you have enough attack speed you don need the tactical tourret to recover steam. If you don't use q7 set there is no need to waste essences to use the sharpnel shot. Like none uses mechanical tourret vs bosses, and even less players use the skill to recover hp, and, as I've already said, you need (tank needs) tesla vs just few bosses.
    So don't even try to convince me that the Steam Mechanicus is a class that requires player's skills to be used.


    Try jumping using a ranger, you'll land where you pointed, but dead, if it won't appear "you can't jump there" or "not enough concentration".


    look carefully, the fire guardian shots little fireball from one arm and sometimes from the other arm it shots a bigger one that deals more damages and burn you.

    Same for the tree, it has two attacks, one that slows the enemy and deals more dmg, the other that just deals dmg, but with less strenght
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2017
  16. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    No they don't crit.
    Can't test the guardian in the arena since there is no pvp at TS but it is not dealing crit hits to any monster.
    As for the tree/wolves ... they don't crit 100%

    ---MERGED---

    These are the paths that each class has to pass to get to the finish line
    [​IMG]

    No other class but midget can jump over that rift
     
    Last edited by moderator: Jun 3, 2017
  17. UndergroundKiller

    UndergroundKiller Forum Expert

    Don't forget q7 map2
     
  18. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    Of course ... there are many maps as I said above .
    This is not of great importance for the topic but ... explained it anyway as it was taken as one of SM's cons.
     
  19. eHss

    eHss Forum Apprentice

    As i see my post change in conspiracy theories.
    You know in your way there is no needed explosive arrows and ice ball, lets kill boss with basic atack. If u have skills that deal dmg u use them, and we do not talk about farming with "party" but alone, when you face for example mortis inferno or berach inferno alone then u use much skills, and do not forget that red turrets don't chase people, you need to tank the boss by yourself :)

    BTW.

    @trakilaki , @UndergroundKiller

    Why do you even mention this, you tried to find everything bad about dwarf to not add a crit for them?
    1 long,slow jump and only stun break i think is enought.
    This thread is about crit for dwarfs not for your personal prejudice about this class
     
  20. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    OK ... it is obvious you are not reading.
    First of all ... midgets do crit.
    We were suggesting adding crit to turrets long ... long ... looooong time ago ... you are too late and with bogus conception.
    No one hates midgets ... players only dislike devs giving advantage to one class over the others.
    Be happy because it WILL happen ... sooner or later. I am sure about that. ;)
     
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