Suggestion Delete crit on shield

Discussion in 'Creative Corner' started by Dемои, Mar 30, 2019.

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Do you accept the idea?

  1. YES!

    21 vote(s)
  2. No.

    22 vote(s)
  1. Dемои

    Dемои Forum Pro

    Simply polling.
    Tank is more powefull class on arena beacouse they have crit on shields. Other classes must choose shield or book/key/quiver. My sugestion is change all crit shields to normal with armor/res/block.
    And pleas no unnecessary spam 'tank isn't distance class and they must have crit in shield'
    Tank is more distance class than dwarf and mage.
    Mage must stand in vortex if they want have cooldown on skills.
    Dwarf have less range on 1h and must come closer when they dont have steam. Ranger have 3 hand to hand skills.
    And tank? Tank have 3 stuns. 1 stun jump, head, charge and any class can escape from this and in few rage attack they can have next 3 stuns. With crit shield tank have 70-80% crit with the same amount of block and on head they can kill other classes on 2-3 hits.
    VoulaAek1 likes this.
  2. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Ambassador

    Not only.
    Tank doesn't need offensive offhand, and if he did that should be eg. a dagger working exactly like a quiver, tool or a book... not an offensive shield.
    And the solution for tanks is, I believe, just giving them dual-wielding. Of course the off-hand weapon gets a damage debuff, eg. 30% on this item and/or it doesn't profit from the %WD from wisdom and uniques.

    And vote yourself (you didn't).
    nikatar likes this.
  3. Hetsunien

    Hetsunien Padavan

    1.- Offensive shields for all classes would be better
    2.- Healing skills and talents like those from Wolfs/Tree, Steam Conductor and Magic Missile should be removed from arena, except DK's as they are not ranged.
    3.- Gwenfara's weaponry should be equally reworked, like: no more damage for RAs and no more CHR to DKs, just like SMs and SWs, which are equally matched. The same for Q2 weapons, Destructor, Wolfslayer and similar.

    Anyways, people will never be satisfied with the PVP system and devs probably will never repair what, in first place, they broke long ago.
    DBS-Flamelurker likes this.
  4. MikeyMetro

    MikeyMetro Forum Overlooker

    No, because it is a moot point. New pvp gear is coming. Find something real to fret over :rolleyes:
  5. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Ambassador

    DKs already have way better healing than the other classes... if you want to remove healing... remove it fairly, from all classes. And this should include DK. Let only their HP compensate for them "not being ranged" (while they actually are almost as much as anyone else).
    Still, dual wielding or a dedicated crit rate offhand (eg. dagger) with these stupid shields removed would be better.

    Also, when is that new gear coming?
    According to their roadmap, not in the first milestone. When is the second one? Maybe it'll have come by the end of this year...

    And meanwhile we all struggle with our damn dailies which won't be removed before the third milestone.
  6. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    I struggle daily against SMs that have even more OP healing than DKs while they are able to run around and let their turrets do their work for them.

    I struggle daily against SWs who have singularity cool down their own singularity and pretty much do nothing but stand inside that vortex of death while I'm lucky to land a Ground Breaker from a distance without taking more damage than I give.

    I struggle Daily against RAs that can simply blade dance all around me and do damage at the same time on top of their normal escape skills.

    Trust me... the people who beat me are not winning because I don't have enough DPS from a crit line on a shield. They are winning because of skill imbalances that adversely impact a DK in ways that don't mean a thing to a ranged player.

    If you didn't want comments, you shouldn't have made a thread.
  7. DBS-Flamelurker

    DBS-Flamelurker Exceptional Talent

    Great post.

    Remove healing and ranged attacks for all classes. You're fun. Too much. ;)
  8. sargon234

    sargon234 Commander of the Forum

    turn them into actual offensive off hand equipment
  9. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Ambassador

    That's not how you fight a ranger... when he starts using BD, you just stand in the middle and when he is casting the BD you just charge at his aim point (look at the minimap). If he escapes using jump, you jump at him and headbutt, if he uses adrenaline you use GB and kill him.
    You can use FotD and possibly BoW at his singu right after he has casted it. Remember that on the edge of the vortex you get only about 20% armor break. He has to escape, using up his teleport, he doesn't have singu again because he had just casted it. You stun him, he uses his only remaining stun break, you break the stun with FBC, headbutt and he's dead.

    Not even saying that you can spam BWS standing just outside the vortex.
    If they have OP healing... they are abusing some bugs.

    I have seen those dwarfs who SPAM heal despite they should have 10s cooldown and the steam cost.
  10. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Which I can only do once every 15 seconds. During that time, they can get a lot of damage in.
    Have you ever tried something like this against a top tier RA as a DK? It doesn't work like that, but it is cute that you think it does. With Adrenaline, they can outrun Groundbreaker in a straight line and unless they stand still after their jump when I jump after them, they are long gone by the time my headbutt animates.

    Problem is, both of these involve getting close, which puts you in range of stuns, and with the cool down from singularity, their stuns are pretty much always available.
    Not really, but lets assume he does.
    To stun him, I need to get a clear shot at him. Problem is, the smart SWs do their singularities near one of the obstacles. Then, when they escape, they escape to the other side of the barrier. So, I need to either run to the other side or jump, but the SW is already of and running away because they know their important skills are on cool down... and it is back to the running game.

    I don't think that you understand how this works. With an armor broken Smash, I do about 6k-6.5k on an unblocked crit. Problem is, even with the shield you are arguing against, I'm at about a 60% chance of that (40% chance of not critting). Then there is the block, and everyone and their brother is running around with 80% block rate, so I only have a 20% chance of an unblocked hit. Put that together and I'm looking at only a 12% chance of landing a truly substantial hit, and even then, it's only about 20%-25% of their HP. An armor break stun smas is not a game over, and is way harder to pull off than you make it sound.

    It is HP regen with a speed boost that they can use to stay away while they let their turrets do their work. If a DK slows down for even a moment, those turrets hit and thus begins "death by a thousand cuts."
    I didn't even mention their tesla turrets that are immune to damage and can't be destroyed like their other turrets.

    If any of the methods you are describing are working against you, you need to up your game. I've fought noobs of each class and experts of each class, and the experts would never be killed so easily as you described and the noobs couldn't win if I went in as a 2H DK.

    You keep looking at this as a ranged class fighting another ranged class. Against a blade dancing RA, another ranged opponent can very easily get a safe distance away and shoot at where they will land (SMs turrets and SWs Guardian will even do it automatically). So, for that reason, a smart RA won't spam Blade Dancing against other Ranged classes.

    A SW knows better than to stand in their singularity for long against another ranged class because that makes them an almost stationary target, easily killed.

    A SM who relies on nothing but mechanical turrets and HP regen/running against another ranged character will find themselves without much steam since their turrets will be destroyed from a distance, leaving them without a source of damage or regen.

    Ranged classes fight differently against DKs, and as said, the things that are a problem for a DK aren't for other classes.

    And ALL of this is unrelated to the fact that the shield is one of the few advantages that a DK actually has over the other classes (despite your ludicrous list of all the ways DKs are OP). I see these arguments all the time about why DKs are OP, and my advice is always the same... if you think DKs are so OP, why haven't you made one yet? People have been complaining for years, but seem content to complain instead of trying for themselves. I won't argue that DKs are the easiest class to solo with in PWs, but they are far from the OP PvP beasts that most ranged classes make them out to be.
    cdeepal, DBS-Flamelurker and JEKAJE like this.
  11. Purgerzg

    Purgerzg Active Author

    That is why we need to be able to enter pvp in any class we want, so with that we will be stop complaining about pvp. And losing is normal thing, I have all yellow t8 items( 1h+shield; 1h+tool; 2h setup) for pvp and still regularly losing from any other class. Pvp is notoriously slow and boring, nothing funny, and ofc show nothing about skills from player.
    And about steam conductor, cooldown is 10sec (speed buff last 1 sec) + I never see dwarf spaming all the time steam conductor, but if I will see that I will be reporting that player
    _Baragain_ likes this.
  12. MaxDisappointed

    MaxDisappointed Forum Master

    The point is that players want to do PvP with his favourite or main class, they don't want to be forced to play all with the most op class of the moment, this is not fun, do you want all wars in arena?
    In fact, it is easier than ever to go PvP with all classes, you just have to level up the chars and equip the highest tier, no need to craft like before to be competent, neither need gems or runes.
  13. JEKAJE

    JEKAJE Junior Expert

    Sorry but all of the playstyle advices you wrote about do not work as easily as you think, neither are they performed as easily as you make it sound. You are working with "perfect condotions" type of matches and you make it sound so simple and easy but that's not how it is in reality. I mean, there are many more parts of the equation that you do not count in. For example cooldowns of skills, possibility of miss, the thing that I'll probably take more damage than deal, if I try using FotD to counter attak Singularity or as @_Baragain_ said, "the succesful hit of smash doesn't really do anything spectacular despite the fact that it is DK's strongest damage skill." Problem is that PvP is broken as hell, period.
    DBS-Flamelurker and _Baragain_ like this.
  14. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Mech turrets help a lot there. That and their rocket pack. It is truly miserable fighting a well geared and smart mech.
    Exactly. 99% of the time, when I'm talking about PvP, it is 1v1 that I'm talking about because it is all I play and I only play for clovers.
    DBS-Flamelurker likes this.
  15. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Ambassador

    So, you're basically saying that every single DK I met in 1v1 was abusing some bugs? I was never able to outrun their ground breaker on adrenaline with 5p. talent.
  16. DBS-Flamelurker

    DBS-Flamelurker Exceptional Talent

    He's saying you wrote a lot of ridiculous stuff. Starting from saying that DK does the same damage as other classes, when it has LESS percentage damage and inflicts PHYSICAL DAMAGE. 70% vs 50% reduction.

    Play DK and win, if it's that easy. Nah, better EA 500% dmg + BA, right? :D

    Singularity kills offensive DK game, STOP.

    Do you want to remove healing? Remove cd Jump and give a defense bonus. So even DK can "spam" one "ranged attacks" like other classes. ;)
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2019
    cdeepal likes this.
  17. Antenor

    Antenor Forum Apprentice

    Do you think you will win your fights against the warriors simply by removing the critics of the shield? You are in an illusion.
    The next step is that you will make a complaint about the regeneration of life.
    Then you will complain about the dragon hide.
    and ...

    You make an obsession with a point of detail that will not change anything in the fighting against the ranger.
    you can not go back to life, changing the shield will not help you and does not stop you from running in 5v5 or 6v6

    Not so long ago a ranger could demolish any warrior in full tank mode ...
    Just wait for new pvp equipment
    _Baragain_ likes this.
  18. ForeverAlone

    ForeverAlone Forum Apprentice

    U can just be kidding... playing pvp vs tank as a:
    RA: you have only to use blade dance
    SM: you just have to use turrets (that deal dmg for themselves) and heal
    SW: you just have to stay in vortex and summon guardian. Meanwhile, we can only enter in their vortex each minute with ''dragon hide'' but you are worried about the critic in shields... ok seems legit.
    cdeepal likes this.
  19. oOKellueHazeOo

    oOKellueHazeOo Regular

    I hate playing pvp, Rangers with their stupid blade dance
    SW With that pathetic infinite singu + other stuff
    SM's and that goddamn heal and them stupid turrets

    And you want to complain about critical hit's on shields?
  20. Dемои

    Dемои Forum Pro

    Hmm tank unlimite stuns, unlimite skills with rage shot and skin. What else? Och yes if you shot 2-3x on tank they can rep their hp for free