Development Team Letter - CLASS BALANCING

Different mechanics do not justify global weakness.
No nerf, improve the Mage instead:

Compare Wizard and Ranger: Ranger is better in defense, evasion and damage. Better to have EA than Destruction + Meteor + Lightning and Sphere frozen. <<<This is the problem: 4 skills are not enough to compete with EA. And you have less defense and less escape: no dance blades, no life gems.

Decrease mana cost Lightning, Increase damage and speed frozen sphere, change meteor and Destruction.

Meteor and Destruction to justify the cd time...

Meteor: Inflicts 400% damage, the affected area continues to burn for 4 seconds, inflicting 100% per second. Simply control.

Destruction: Speed it up to make it a deadly attack.

Frozen sphere will become the Wizard's EA attack, without armor destruction. 400% total damage, for example. In this way the Wizard will be able to do more damage, justifying the minor defenses. More strong attacks in pvp; more damage in pve.

But at the moment, the Wizard is the weakest class in the game. Basically a weak version of the Ranger.

You can spam 4 EA with adrenaline, each of those deals 375%-500% damage ... if you want to remove the magician's spam ability, give the wizard the same life, escape and damage of the Ranger.

 

Wow! Great argument! Ranger has 3 100% elemental damage skills, 2 of them are 0,99% used on pvp, hunting arrow has only 60% of base damage and fire shot just 25% fire damage, Steam Mechanicus 2 of those elemental damage can be avoided jumping out of range, leaving only Quick Shot as elemental damage. For last, but not least, all Warriors abilities despite 100% fire damage, they hit a small zone... they can't be thrown to an enemy like a Fireball does, and oh suprise fireball hit box is bigger than any other missile skills and leave a fire dot very irritating.

Now look at your post, tell me wich of those 10 elemental abilities are being used on pvp? Ice Missile 100% with Sigris set is OP, Ice Nova is 100% elemental damage, it realeases you from any stun and leaves stunned the oponent at the same time if used correctly. Fireball may not be seen OP compared to an Explosive Arrow, but its it as powerfull as one. Why? Bigger hit box, fire dot, 50% both elemental and physical damage, when mages teleport they refresh all their mana, that means other 4 fireballs or more. EA was OP when it used to explode in the air, this was corrected long ago, hit box is minimal AND you need to mark an enemy first to exploit 100% of its damage, so when it hits, it needs to hit hard because every arrow consumes half concentration of the ranger.

Now for PVE i have to admit Mages need a buff to solo Bosses, maybe a mark that works as the lightning mark, to inflict more damage on fire skills... I don't know.

 

So funny, the skills of the other classes are not usefull or you can avoid them easily but of course, the ones that belong to mages are the best. You can avoid ALL THE ATTACKS not only the ones that you want (because you didn't know that mages weren't the only ones with elemental dmg on their skills). If you can avoid a Tesla turret with a jump, you can avoid a Meteor, a Singularity, a Destruction, an Ice orb and a Lightning strike too with your marvelous jumps.

The Sigris set is ultra OP ahahaha 3x 30% dmg. If you got killed with that attack maybe you have to improve your pj cause the other classes has % over 100% and 200%. So if you die with 90%........... to farm is free. The ice orb is a short ranged attack, you just can use it to players that are stunned. So in the end, this is not a useful attack on PvP. Fireballs are our principal attack in arena and it is the lowest principal attack of all the game and once more you have said that you can throw 4, then jump and another 4....... you just can 3 ......
And about the "hit box" and the need to mark..... is a bad joke. EA is so so so OP that nowadays good ones can easily kill without marking the rival. And yes every arrow consumes 1/2 of your concentration. But with the adrenalines (almost able to been used every 10-12 seconds) you can use 2, adrenalin and another 2 more. Now compare those 4 arrows with the 3+3 fireballs. Sure that 6 fireballs can deal more dmg than 4 EA.........

It is just a bad joke. Mages are clearly the worst class in PvE and PvP nowadays. We have less dmg on the skills, less mobility, no regeneration and of course this affect not only to PvP. It affects too on PvE.

If you don't want to see it..... ok is your choice. But go and see the region chats full of mages trying to do groups and all time rejected. Only "Rangers with q7 and q8 set", "OP dmg dwarfs" or "good tanks" are asked. This is a role game. And a role game in which one class has NO ROLE is unbalanced and need to be fixed

 

To all players like you out there that know nothing about high level pvp i beg you to not make posts similar to this because the more you say the more ignorant about pvp you seem to be. I will refer only to 1 of all the others you said and i am really laughing: You said "mages use max 4 fireballs"..... no comment indeed. Jesus crist players like you come here to post comments like these. Hope trakilaki and other experienced pve and pvp players come to tell you the true truth. There are like i dont know how many more threads like this that players are talking about the pros and cons of the classes and i guess you have not read any of them or else you would know more...

 

So this is my take on why class balancing never really happens. Obviously first it is because the devs do not actually play. I mean to say create a toon in the tutorial and go thru everything an actual player does... not just build toons from some kinda menu then take them out for a brief spin.

That brings me to my second and more important point. The devs could overcome my first point if there was reasonable input from the community. There are very few posts from members here that are well thought out (you know who you are so I'm not going to give you an attaboy )

By well thought out I mean the posts need to stipulate a few things to bring them into perspective. #1 What classes do you actually play. #2 what is your experience in game hours (this is important since the P2W aspect of this game can make a top tier build in short order without really understanding the game.) #3 What is the power of the classes being compared (i.e. top tier, average, newbie, etc.) #4 What is the gear build of the classes you are discussing. #5 Are the comparison being made of somewhat equal toons (most of the gripes here are apples to oranges comparisons.)

What I see in this thread is mostly drama between the players which is useless to to devs (or they have us right where they want us; take your pick ) There are so many posts here simply pointing the flaws/faults in the previous post's comments along with some kind of ,"you don't know what you're talking about" comment. Perhaps you don't know what they're talking about.

Instead of the schoolyard banter... poster #1," yada yada blah blah." poster #2,"you're wrong." P1, "No, You Are wrong." P2, "NO, YOU ARE WRONG!"... Perhaps a more civil discussion would yield better results. Something like, "I need to know (the points I described above) to better respond to this.

Ofc, I am realist and I do not expect this to happen from the forum community any more than I expect any significant balancing improvements from the devs.

Anyway, it's almost time for the guild competition on another game I play. So wish me and my guildies luck there. We are likely to get our butts kicked... again... but oddly that can still be fun in a balanced game

Luck be with ye,
Mikey,
Tegan

 

Are we playing the same game?Fireballs that give 30k dmg (I have 70% fire resist,80% armor resist and -25% dmg in pvp tree),ofc mages spaming them all the time;ice missiles that go throught other players (you forgot talent Biting Frost deliberatly,and if you get hit with 1 ice missile other 2 will hit you 100%),hypnose other player and having free skills,instantly teleporting,unstunt and stunt in the same time (Frost Nova).....We need rebalancing q7 and q8 setups for mages,and the best way to that is that they get +25 mana if they hit player with fireball (q7 setup),and 2 other ice missales activate if they hit other player with ice missale (q8 setup) Have I nice day

 

you need to create mage and play this class, go?

I think mage is class nr. 4 in Pve and Pvp in this moment and last 1-2 years

 

You need to go on youtube and check some warriors vs mages...You will then realise that even though the mages spam fireballs and q8, they are paper like for 1hand warriors.The same mage who hits u with 30k fireball will do 10k+ to a top 1hand warrior....he will need more than 10-20 fireballs to kill that tank if the tank wont heal at all...Who is OP here? Let me guess..the mage according to you....

Pretty much everyone agreed that mages are crap in pve and pvp...everyone but BP, but BP doesnt really play their own games which is why things like this was ok for more than a year now.

Also you do realise that mages spam fireballs at 126% dmg when rangers for instance spam ea at 500%? So you complain about a 126% dmg skill and are ok when u are hit with 500%...Brilliant xD

 

I think many players like you are missing the point of this whole thread and you too are as ignorant as others about the power of classes and also about what other classes can do, so please talk only about your class and only if you have high gear and play high level pvp, so that the other players on this forum take you seriously.
So, lets start with simple maths as i see you are really good on them.. Sarcasm? oh yes
So, according to you, mages are the weakest class in both pve and pvp.Well, my experience so far in this game(and believe me its a lot) does not prove that. But let maths talk first like i said. You said above that mages fireball does 126% dmg... i guess you are not a mage or you are a liar, because you would know that fireball not only is 50% physical and 50% fire damage but it also burns the enemy for 90% of your base damage, so total 216% dmg from 1 fireball that costs 10 mana only if you are using the q7 set, which 99% of the 2h mages do in the arena and why not since that 10 mana fireball only is broken. So, first thing you are wrong.

Then, lets talk about the broken EA you ignorant players are talking about. First of all, EA was never doing 500% dmg, neither vs marked nor vs unmarked enemies. This attack does 325% dmg and 2x that damage vs marked so, 650% dmg for a cost of 66 concentration.Before a ranger spams 2 of those as they are slower than other attacks too, the mage will have spammed at least 4-6 fireballs, let alone EA is way harder to hit and if you try to get closer to the mage to aim, you will most likely dodge 1-2 fireball but die to the other one for sure. Also, for this attack to do it max dmg 650%, you have to mark the oponnent, good luck with that when the good players run like sick and the chances to hit any class other than dks are low and even if you mark the dks good luck trying to kill them with EA. Of course im talking about high pvp here.

Moving on, what i see in the arenas is dks ruling every other class but mages are not bottom i assure you.Dks are the most broken class no doubt because they simply have more hp than all the other classes,heal and their skills do things the other classes cannot do much against. A big problem here and in other games too(like lol) is that anything in this game scales. For example, a dk with 100k hp and +50% hp from items or the wisdom tree will be benefitted way more than any other class because since the base hp is higher the % boost will be way more beneficial for dks than other classes. Same goes for dmg. Honestly, if i were a dev i would not talk where to start with.

Pvewise, mages are not that strong but you cannot say that in pvp they are not because in 5v5 all i see is mages 1-2 shot everything, then get the 20% increased dmg and move speed from the battle instict and move like sick and kill everyone even faster. No, mages not weak in pvp. The balancing should start with the dks and i think thats clear. The other classes need balance too but stop saying all the time that mages are that much weaker in pvp than other classes because its not true at all

 

this whole thing is kind of worrying me... u generally dont understand why fireball is weak... it burns the 90 % over 3 secconds ...so you have 3 thicks which increases your chance to block them and you have tiime to cleanse the burn from teleport or immune skills... while ea is an instant 2 hit ....so dont tell me how op fireball is..i dont see why so many rangers complain about q8, when im fighting other rangers with their q8 its an instant win they jsut run at you with adrenaline and if you dont run you get 1spammed with ea 2 being atacked by q8 thunders 3 wolves(and if i make mind control the thunder has just enough time to 1shot me)...i dont see how me staying in 1 place spamming i ce missle saves me from 3 sources of dmg coming from different places..

Second dont tell me how slow is the speed of your ea since it scales well with atack speed..and unless fireball crits the initial hit you WONT die... believe me i have experimented with it ,,, while with ea you MAY not die but since its guaranteed second hit the chance to crit increases.


Third... seeing ranger with 10k dmg outdamaging a 20 k mage ... i mean what do i even say ..... mages op according to you ??

And last You speak about high end pvp but what your post says is pretty much early- mid game......like lategame mages are either last or above dwarfs ..but generally i dont care for pvp,like fix pve and its ok..

 

My post was exactly referring to ignorant players like you who are not strong enough to play high level pvp and dont know how strong mages really are. If you dont know how to play your toon, its not my problem, but mages that know how to play they really delete other 2h players in the arena. I have even played against mages that used shield and believe me they are pretty strong. You are missing alot of points here and said many silly things, which make me think you are either not skilled in pvp or you dont care about it.

I have both a ranger and a dk and i have played with both of them against high level mages. I am telling you this: Even on my dk, which has super nice resistances at a shield, the dmg from fireball is outstanding, not like EA but a mage who has really good running speed and knows how to hit and run using fireball really does the job. What? you did not know? mages use fireball then run then fireball again then run. Did you know that in case of the rangers the hit and run is hit with hunting arrow and run vs hit fireball run? i wonder whats better. I wont even say anything about the wolves attack , the most useless attack in pvp of all classes maybe.Also i never refered to ice missiles, but now that you mentioned it maybe i should. Did you know that pre level 55 there were 1h mages in the arena that were deleting 1h longbow rangers just with the q8 set, it was like the shield was not even there. Ice missile is not as strong as it was used to be but if a mage has good attack speed and starts spamming it and knows how to play with that skill, the ranger( wont talk about dks) that will get near to aim will eat a ton lot of this attack just by trying to get close and the same thing goes for the fireball spam like i said above.
If you dont play a high level ranger then you cannot know how slow EA is. Ea is very strong attack but its weaknesses are first the cost and second how slow it is and im talking about how slow it is to fire it not the time it needs to hit the enemy

Lastly, i dont think i ever said mages are broken. I said DKs are broken. But i am tired of reading comments about mages needing a buff etc. I know mages out there that wreak havoc on heredur. I have played against the best of the best out there and im not some 30k hp ranger with no resistances, nor my dk is some sh it without gear, so dont tell me what good mages can really do. Maybe on your level you see rangers being strong but all i see is better players not better class. Surely there are advantages of 1 class over the other but thats how all games are. Only 1 class has no that many weaknesses and thats dk. So, if you really wanna say that mages are weak vs dks, then fine but when you compare them to rangers or dwarves then no man you are terribly wrong here.

 

Ignorance is the word which applies only for you mr. the best at all i leave this discussion it huts my eyes to watch you repeating the same thing, which just so you know DOESNT MEAN YOU ARE RIGHT. Im not in the late late late late late late late pvp end im using the word SKILLS despite what you think ive defeated enough grand marchals with my toon to know.And let me tell you if a tank with just 100k hp and 70 percent armor and 60 % res beats me just by spamming 1 button , ranger with half my dmg outdmg me then my sir we have a problem.... mages are OK for group play but the word time hits wayyyy to hard on his skill in term of executution.I think youi missed half of this thread ... like you just came and write he deals ok dmg..... while nobody was taling about dmg values on spells.....gg , Ppl who are as ignorant like you just dont deserve my attention, wish a good day and luck in the game

 

Yes im ignorant if you say so and im repeating myself? hahaah ok. yes please leave the discussion because you cannot really contribute anything good to it. Your knowledge of the game is too low and i dont care about it but when you go to the forums and try to tell us how the game works from your perspective, a player that does not know much about other classes, maybe not even for your own, then thats a problem. When you learn more about the game and start being objective and not cry because your class to your eyes is weak then you can come again and say more useful things in this thread. There are mages out there like angelfomercy or cavid that are laughing in your face when you say how weak mages are in pvp. Also, i dont see a single sentence of mine in my last post that looks like im repeating anything of what i said previous to that, so maybe you must use your eyes better as well. All i did in my last was to completely prove how wrong your 3 points were in your post but you reply me like this : "i wont talk anymore and you are ignorant". thats how the ignorants answer. If you cannot refute what i said, then dont but trying to act big and showing superior behaviour does not really work and do you any good.

P.S: when you want me to teach how to use your class to its fullest potential in pvp, come and i will teach you

 

Keep the discussion polite and respectful.
It would be my last reminder.


Cheers

 

Actually, its my bad sir because i knew it would end up like that. You try to tell some people how things really are and because of their egos they dont want to admit how wrong they are and the whole discussion ends up in a mess. So dont worry, this is my the last time i will write in this thread since most likely noone will ever understand. With respect to all you mods out there

 

You my friend are wrong. If you need clarrification theres this site call youtube.You can check there the difference between mages and warriors in terms of power.Once you find that site out and look at some videos you will see warriors doing inf2-3 bosses with green quite easily...then u will see mages struggling with bosses like mortis for over 5 minutes and with pink + just to do a kill for youtube ...


Then once u will browse long enough u will see players like prototype beating mages like paper without even using a weapon (him on his dk)...you can then come here and spout more nonsense about whos op and who isnt...because i see u are good at this...

You keep forgetting the fact that fireball does 126% dmg, and those 3 burn effects can be easily taken off by using a stun remove skill...can u do the same with ea when u get hit by 100k+ dmg even though your items are maxed and u have 20-30k armor? You cant do that is it?

If you are having a hard time with youtube i can provide some videos just for u if u want and show u how warriors can do 30-40 sec boss kills while mages struggle minutes to do the same...The mage is still op according to u ? If you also browse through this thread u will see that many players agreed that mages are weak so its not just me saying that...

When u bring silly things like egos instead of facts in a conversation it only makes u look bad to be honest...As i said..theres this thing called youtube...do your homework before you talk..will be better in the future

 

And heres one of the best mages of heredur i think vs mortis INF 2 not 3...


He is using those fireballs that thouvou000 consideres to be OP...7 minutes of OPness..1k pink+ lots of hps and could barely do what a warrior does with ease without investing anything in the kill..no ess..no pots..

And heres a random warrior doing mortis inf2 with green in 3 mins


MAGES ARE OP rofl..thats why they do 2x more per kill even if they use pink and warriors do 2 times less with green....I bellieve ive given all the arguments needed to explain the pve situation between mages and warriors..if videos are not enough then i dunno what else to say...If mages are op when they do 2x more per kill then i guess warriors are uber op for doing 2x less

As to this comment..if you play on heredur id like you to show me how you beat 1 hand warriors with your mage...those good 1hand warriors not any warrior that barely made lvl 55 ^^...go vs warriors like prototype, optimus, valak, gxthebatman..show me senpai ^^

 

Great knowledge, lol

125% (250% marked) + 250% explosion = 500%

Best pvp characters (end level):

War
Ranger
Mage
Dwarf

Best pve characters (end level):

Ranger (q7 and escape)
Dwarf; War
Mage

Nerf War and Ranger wins.

Then:

Nerf War and Ranger...

or (better):

Buff mage in pve and dwarf in pvp (change frozen sphere, make it better for pvp and pve).