Development Team Letter - CLASS BALANCING

Discussion in 'Headquarters Archive' started by DSO Production Team, Nov 1, 2017.

Dear forum reader,

if you’d like to actively participate on the forum by joining discussions or starting your own threads or topics, please log into the game first. If you do not have a game account, you will need to register for one. We look forward to your next visit! CLICK HERE
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. sjwing

    sjwing Forum Apprentice

    No where in the post did he say he threw away onyx or didn't have any. what WAS said is that a huge amount of onyx will be needed for the proposed changes. Don't read in to things that are not there.
  2. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    Don't be shy just say it :p
    They are not releasing unique longbows intentionally ...
    There are only 2 longbows for beginners (Full Moon and Alliance) ... no longbows from events no longbows from PW ... not even PW quivers.
    They even nerfed down the longbows previously ... what blardy balancing ... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out what are they doing. Under the veil of "we are boosting rangers" (because rangers were the unwanted class in a group) ... "we are making Hoaxbows" etc ... they are making the game playable only in their way and no other way. Diversity by forcing all players to use one weapon and one particular set ... that will lead to one particular build. That is called "milking a class" not balancing or improving.

    When are you going to release damage-focused longbows? Will it be in this lifetime or not?
    MikeyMetro and Yogo like this.
  3. Rhysingstar

    Rhysingstar Forum Ambassador

    It's funny how this "re-balancing" talk got put into the subject yet nothing specific was talked about in the wall of text that followed. Yes, there was a random "Especially Steam Mechanici, who are currently not interested in critical hits, will see way more usage in e.g. runes that grant critical hit chance or damage." so everyone is assuming that SM's will need to start buying/framing onyx. While they should not be the only class that is allowed to ignore crit, the statement alone doesn't say much.

    So maybe when you return to this thread you can be a little more specific on what I expect to be a nerf that is called re-balancing and how exactly it will affect each class.
  4. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    Midgets are next XD
  5. Novadude

    Novadude Commander of the Forum

    Then he should already have sufficent onyxes to begin building his crit if and when a change occurs. On my dk, for example, I have 22 of the +150 quiazah gems plus all my unconverted onyxes from pre-level 55 just sitting in storage, all from farming or cubes (I had access to those up until a few months ago) or event rewards since the introduction of level 55. On my mech I believe I have 4 of the +300ish quiazah gems in storage as I was also able to convert those old gems.

    A huge amount will not be needed. One set of 3x or 4x crit bullets with gold line base crit line would hedge against any possible crit mechanic change. Given that Tesla and mech turrets are not affected by attack speed, going all onyxes + crit on the bullets can be an initial mech adjustment if crit is introduced. I even have 3 extraordinary bullets with 2x gold crit lines (and one of those has a 26% 3rd line and gold base line that is a candidate for level 60 + 5 slots extraordinary crit bullets in the initial days of a crit game mechanic change).

    Smart players will hedge against these possibilities.
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2017
    _Baragain_ likes this.
  6. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    You missed something:
    I totally understand why mechs haven't worked on crit items, but with the foresight that a post like this provides and the implications that crit will become relevant for mechs in the future, it would now be wise to start crafting such items and putting them in storage for the future. Have you ever read the fable of the ant and the grasshopper? If you know winter is coming, plan for it.
    To all the other grasshoppers out there, meet Novadude, an Ant diligently preparing for a winter that may never come, and when it does come, may not be that bad.

    It may be months before we see these changes, so as long as a mech has not been selling/throwing out Onyxes (which was/is pure foolishness), they have more than enough time to be ready for the change. I can't name the last time that BP gave us information about such a significant change with this much advanced notice. I remember when crit changed from a diminishing returns equation to a linear equation and people who had 80% crit rate one day had 50% the next. Where was the warning then? Use the heads up in this post and be prepared.
    Rhysingstar likes this.
  7. sjwing

    sjwing Forum Apprentice

    No where in here does it state that onyx was thrown out or didn't have onyx. It was a comment that a lot of onyx would be needed, which is expensive. Don't read in to what is not there.
  8. Rhysingstar

    Rhysingstar Forum Ambassador

    Actually novadude only asked a question. You read into things that are not there in his question.

    However it was jslaughter that was the one who "read in what is not there" by assuming that because the dev mentioned;

    Nowhere is it said that SM's will be required to use crit or crit damage as part of their character. The mention was specifically under summoned companions and spoke to runes, not onyx. jslaughter chose to assume that this is talking about more than that.

    He also assumes that only the richest players can afford to create a mech with high crit when that is simply not true. Everyone can farm onyx gems, they've been dropping for years.

    "If" he and other SM's chose to sell or throw away those onyx drops, then yes, that would put them at a disadvantage to the heavy buyers in the beginning, but all of that assumes that what the dev said applies to more than just the summoned companion.

    It also assumes that any of the topics brought up by the dev will make it onto the live servers.

    There is already too much assuming given the lack of specific information provided by the dev.
  9. sjwing

    sjwing Forum Apprentice

    "Therefore we want to ensure to not destabilize or negate any builds which you have created."" that’s why we decided not to put all skills on a plate and force them into a „one size fits all“-framework for all classes."
    I am seriously hoping that is true, and they don't try to make us "cookie Cutter" toons like MikeyMetro said. Im a DK, and never want to be a tank. I do groups frequently, and we do quite well in higher level end bosses. ( INf I, II). You don't have to have a tank. Damage dealers and all classes work together quite well. I like that there is individuality now, and hope I don't have to be turned in to a class clone " one -size fits all" for the sake of "balancing". There should be room for individuality.
    Some people have spent a long time and effort into making a unique build that is quite effective. It would be a shame if all that creativity, skill, builds, etc. were made to look like everyone else in a class.
    I hope this is a positive change, I really do. Many things have been good with the changes this year- Runes instead of some of the stones/ gems, new events, new areas, new "stuff" like mounts and pets, the collectors bag to free up space in inventory, new levels in pre- PW areas, new or modified/ reworked equipment... Im hoping this will be good, as well. The rebalancing and nerfing were not so good.
    For those who have tons of gems, and hordes of them stored.. that "implies" you have been playing a long time. Some of us are newer and have gems, but not the reserves of long-time players. I have mostly sacreds, several Royals, the rest Flawless. I've been playing about a year. I have more than a lot of player who have played for years. The concern is for the newer players, and if the drop for Onyx is less than say... armor or hp or resistance gems, then a crit. hit build will take a long time. Long -time players can adapt or pull from storage, whereas newer players have to start from the ground up. So , if a crit. hit build is the "theme" for the new changes for mechs, then the drop rate for that gem, or rune for it, should be made higher, more obtainable.
    Just my humble opinion. Yes, Im a noob at this.. not everyone has been playing for years and tons of stuff stored for the "winter". Working to catch up to you. Lol.
  10. Saved_81

    Saved_81 Forum Master

    no you missed something
    Who will give me back the money I spent on ASPD gear and who will give me back the time spent to farm my current equip? Who will give me the items I could have gotten farming the "correct" equipment?
    I don't care what could happen in the future, right now, I've already spent money and time on that stuff and I lost the chance to get better one (can't even remember how many Golden crit stat item I've melted or sold).
    This cannot be cancelled with an "hops we did a mistalke" or "you weren't wise enough" because there is nothing to be wise when I play the game for how it was meant to be played. This isn't a simple mistake, this is a blatantly choise of the dev team to create a class that was critless and this is a good thing (I understand someone can't get this but the fact a class doesn't need crit is good for the diversity of the game and it would be a fail just to force everyone to use crits just as it would be fail to force everyone to use 2h weapons and so on).
    For the diversity of the game, it would be correct to give any class the chance to create critless builds and not vice versa.
    There's the story of the wiseman that was pointing at the moon but the fool kept looking at the finger.
    The moon is the "diversity" of the builds any class can have (which would include competitive 1h builds, critless builds and so on) while the finger is the useless assumption that everyone must use crits which is, obviusly simply not true and just a short sighted view of the game.

    Actually he did nothing special, onyxes are just a marginal part of the problem if he never saved any crit item and already started to craft it or simply if he spent any serious amount of time crafting ASPD/DMG gear.

    The point is, there are 2 ways to give ANYONE the CHANCE to use crits (or actually to make critless builds): buff the un-used skills (and there are plenty of them) or change the current skills, the first one is correct because will let the player to chose the build they prefer and the other will just ruin the time and money spent by a large portion of the players.

    Beeing said this there's no reason to add anything to the question, just a little reminder for the devs: I would listen really suspiciously suggestions from ppl that actually don't play that class.
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2017
  11. sjwing

    sjwing Forum Apprentice

    "Being said this there's no reason to add anything to the question, just a little reminder for the devs: I would listen really suspiciously suggestions from ppl that actually don't play that class." (Saved_81)
    I agree. I was making a suggestion, and out of my "class". Those who play the class should be making the suggestions. Many of us have friends in each class. "Balancing" can really effect their playing for quite a while, until new equipment/ crafting, gems, etc., level out the changes. Sometimes they had to go in completely different directions in builds, starting over, in essence. I hate to see people struggle, knowing where they were, and what the changes did to them. They know better than anyone what works and doesn't work, what the potential changes mean for them. Listen to the people of the class that is being altered in some way.
    Yes, everyone can get onyx, and we all get drops that have crit. hit. , and can craft. That is another good point.
    As we progress through the game and the changes made, creation of new equipment, we tend to change out part of our builds for better in some way. I still think we should be allowed our individuality in creating our builds in a way that works for us. Diversity is a good thing!
  12. Novadude

    Novadude Commander of the Forum

    I play a mech as well, about 50% of the time, and you can go through my posts to confirm that I have a mech.
    Rhysingstar likes this.
  13. Rhysingstar

    Rhysingstar Forum Ambassador

    Here's an idea that would keep the SM players happy.

    Let's remove crit and crit dmg from all the characters. All current and future equipment with crit lines could be turned into dmg lines, crit dmg lines could be turned into speed lines. All onyx turned into Rubies, all crit runes turned into speed runes.

    Then we all get to build characters like SM's just focusing on speed and damage :eek:
  14. rogue07

    rogue07 Someday Author


    my MMORPG endeavors began around 2010, so not all too familiar with MMOs that old xD
    I do see your point, however in the MMO gaming meta, nowadays PvE is the focus.

    the current most hyped MMO Lost Ark (which I've signed up for open beta lol) is also primarily PvE. the general MMO gaming community is vastly more focused on the PvE aspect than the PvP aspects, considering the major developments in gaming culture, with MOBAs giving PvP focused players everything they could want and more, mostly seperating the PvErs from the PvPers.

    LoL, DoTA, Overwatch, so on based on a more fantasy world format
    in current day's MMORPGs, PvP exists mainly as a means to keep its long term players who have finished its PvE content from leaving the game, the competitiveness gives the developers time to work on new content i.e. expansions.

    just the info I've gathered over the years as both a player of MMOs and the lucky opportunity of working with the developers on a few games as a beta tester

    the bigger and more successful MMOs with a healthy and enjoyable PvP content, are often from bigger companies with lots of staff and departments to deal with each portion of the game. and in comparison, i honestly think the biggest problem DSO has is that from what i can assume... they dont have the amount of staff required to give enough attention to all aspects and details of this game as we all need/demand.

    not sure they even have a good team of beta testers either, considering all the bugs and exploits that get rolled out into these releases. just a handful of developers can only do so much.
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
  15. Fugnuts

    Fugnuts Forum Master

    The way i see it, this dev team letter along with this so called "class rebalancing idea" are nothing but lies.I mean look at it this way.The new skill tree screenshots show us that we will have to spend like 900 points to upgrade all of the skills to max.Pretty much everyone has like 55 points now.When they will go ahead and implement this "1k skill points" idea, we all know that DSO wont give us anything but those 55 points that we already have now and then we will have to farm the other 900+ ones or pay for them...most likely at some point paying for them will be the only chance to continue upgrading them unless u are a crazy farmer.

    So when this new skill tree thing gets implemented, everyone will suffer a huge nerf because the points that we will have wont be enough to max the skills again.Eventually after a year or more we will end up with maxed skill trees again which will give us the same advantages they give now.The only difference is that what we have nowdays in skills will take few years to gain back but after spending a lot of $.

    Instead of keeping things simple with the skill tree like they are now and boosting the % dmg of some skills here and there to make the game more balanced, they decided to throw everything away and start from almost 0.This new idea is nothing but another way to milk some more $ from the players.

    Dont know if u realised but once u go ahead and implement this 1k skill points idea, the majority of players will get a huge nerf, while few will get a huge boost in stats.Those few who will gain a huge boost in stats are those that will spend few thousand $ to buy all the skills back and they will have a crazy advantage over the others.Or this is what balance means in DSO's terms?
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
  16. bloodyneo

    bloodyneo Forum Master

    class balancing? is it include fixing 3v3 and 5v5 unofficial ban for some strong players from playing pvp?
    till now we dont have official answer to this problem( INTENDED),,all that your ansewr is :WE ARE AWARE OF THIS PROBLEM...pethatic answers...
  17. Akageshi

    Akageshi Forum Duke

    Well, yeah, might be the case. But you can't really balance a game that is pretty much based on a pay-to-win model, since everyone with money always gets an advantage, and you cannot disadvantage those who pay, right? So perhaps all the talk about balancing is mere excuses, after all. DSO would have to go for a completely different business model, like this unspecified indie ARPG, where nothing that you can buy for real money has a real effect, other than aesthetic. *wink wink.
    I guess devs are just trying to give us more things to do, in this case more ways to grow our characters, while of course get more $. Idk, can you blame them? Let's see first if the upcoming stuff is fun. The group related skills and such look like fun to me.
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
  18. cdeepal

    cdeepal Forum Baron

    With all respect, you are twisting the definition of an MMORPG.
    MOBA is a very recent concept. The very first MMORPGs that came more than 20 years ago than the first MOBA, all had PvP aspect to it.
    The pioneer of the MMORPG genre, Ultima Online was all open world, drop all your loot when killed type of PvP game.

    MMORPGs with Only PvE came years after that.
    The difference between MMORPG and MOBA is that MOBA is all PvP, there is nothing PvE aspect to it.
    rogue07 likes this.
  19. Mal3ficent

    Mal3ficent Guest

    I did, and I will do it again and again until you learn to read the forum rules.
    Have a nice vacation. :)

    Shine2 likes this.
  20. sargon234

    sargon234 Commander of the Forum

    That comment that he quoted is why pvp is cancer in every pve based game like this one,based on pve.
    If pvp was never introduced many damages inflicted by the whining of the crybabies would have been spared. Though, maybe it would be dead, sadly.

    Indeed, this thing is interesting, but that's all: you have my interest, not my attention
    And i'm afraid this will mean that they'll do up the level to 60 in 2018
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.