Development Team Letter - CLASS BALANCING

Discussion in 'Headquarters Archive' started by DSO Production Team, Nov 1, 2017.

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  1. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Agreed. All other classes can use skillful play to dodge hits while applying damage from a distance. DKs have to be in melee distance and they will be hit by 90% of bosses. Without HP regen based on damage, the 2H DK build would be dead.
    DBS-Flamelurker likes this.
  2. KubQn

    KubQn Forum Apprentice

    Just for you I checked damage output on my mage:
    Chain DMG - 21k-25k - 1st hit non electrified -> 31k - 40k after
    Each Ice Missle - 13k - 21k [*3] -> 39k - 63k
    Damage to one target:
    Ice Missle: 39k - 63k (+ mana reduce)
    Chain: 31k - 40k (+ 1st hit is weaker)
    Damage to two targets:
    Ice Missle: 78k - 126k
    Chain: 62k - 80k
    Damage to three targets:
    Ice Missle: 78k - 126k
    Chain: 93k - 120k
    So while attacking 3 enemies the damage output is a bit higher, but you lose mana reduce.
    At low mode when you're spamming only autos anyway OK
    At high mode when you need to use other spells to... please.
  3. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    If you order them to make column formation .. probably yes

    but mobs are usually refusing orders.
    I am using them all in same time MM, CL, IM and LS
  4. KubQn

    KubQn Forum Apprentice

    Disagree. Almost always you will be attacking 2 monsters at the same time, especially if tank is taunting them to one place. And even if there will be 2 monsters left where you can't do that, you can move your character for the good angle.
    If you're using MM, CL and IM at the same time then you're wasting a lot of points in tree, thats all about my CL discussion.
  5. Phyrix

    Phyrix Forum Duke

    Damn nice setup that, I would only do 1 or 2 things differently
    1 that fyrgon ring I suggested the mortis ring but look at the gems and runes you have in that ring.
    that would be ideal for a variety of 3 rings
    1 blood tooth that gives 10% more crit
    2 tear holder hp and 6% damage
    3 the lost ring from the cube would work perfect as it gives 1280 armor and even more on lvl60 and the hp on it is insane so you can afford to craft pure cd into it.

    Other options you have is the bearach belt for the set perks then you can wear the witch seeker helm since you have 3 dragan parts already

    Also because you have 4 dragan pieces you can choose to replace the ring with any of the mentioned above
    And or you can replace the boots with medusa set

    The only reason why I suggest these is so that you have an higher amount of set perks than only 2
    every set perk ads up.

    Also regarding speed
    Amazing as your build is if you reach certain breakpoints your damage will double.
    Example is a ranger that got their speed to 2.65 with herald buff they can do 8 EA in a go

    Only reason why I mention these is well I want you to be stronger
  6. Saved_81

    Saved_81 Forum Master

    I, for sure, don't have ego problems as I'm not the one that is screaming for nothing on the forum.
    I try to understand devs choises instead of criticize them on the whole line.
    I've seen what they "proposed" for dwarfs on the test server and I know by first hand that when something isn't totally reliable they can make steps back (in fact they haven't still applied the changements they proposed for SMs but we saw them and they could have been implemented on the live servers right away).
    In that case, since solid arguments were brought, they stepped back (at least for a while), and so I'm expecting they are gonna do also this time.

    The fact I'm expecting dwarfs should be only "pure damage" doesn't make any sense (I don't understand where you think I've ever said such thing.. I can't even understand what do you mean with it in the first place).
    What I'm sure about is paper dps means very little, whoever thinks they could understand how a build could work only looking at the results on a calc is probably fooling himself.
    I'm used to make statistical analysis based on empirical datas.
  7. DBS-Flamelurker

    DBS-Flamelurker Forum Pro

    Even just one. Or one + one blocked.

    A Ranger with 30k damage and max cd deals 150k (on 80% reduction) with an unblocked EA (with mark). The damage is even greater if the war has not raised armor to ignore armor break.

    So, most likely, the war died with only one EA. How many "balanced" dk have more than 150k?

    Healing can be unjust? Sure. But even die from one explosive.

    Now tell me how a dk can have: high damage and cd, high block, high armor (40k for armor breakage), high resistance and 200k life, lol
  8. heror

    heror Forum Baron

    IDK you tell me there are plenty of dks like this on Grimmag with 200k hp and dealing 20k per wild swing ( while i ahve 80% armor).....and im dealing 5k per fireball(crit) with 25 k dmg....
    GoulishNightmares likes this.
  9. I do not want to destroy a DK. I don't think anyone wants to. They are crucial to a group just as the other classes are, but I think in PVP surely there should be some sort of cap/restriction on a DK's healing. Everything -in my opinion- can stay as is for PVE because DKs are good tanks, but again it would be nice if the other classes had a better chance of be capable of doing this as well. I know there are strong players in every class, but you see the most in DK as far as their 'tankiness'. No I do not like to complain, but I am observant of things in the game, and am aware of all classes since my guild has every class in it, some very strong players , but even the strongest mage in my guild doesn't stand up to the strongest DK. Why?..When each class tries their hardest to be the best they can be and are held back because of certain 'class restrictions'. I could only pray to have health like my friend who is a DK, but I will never get it because then I will lose my damage and I don't want that. So yeah it is unbalanced. -Also Phyrix, as far as the 'effort' I put into my toon, leaderboards show I put a lot more into her, than you do yours. Thank you :)
  10. DBS-Flamelurker

    DBS-Flamelurker Forum Pro

    The war you described should have 10k + damage and max cd. With 200k life I wonder how it is possible... :rolleyes:

    The problem is this: Nerf healing could be right against Mage, but not against Ranger. Because Ranger has good options against war. ^_^
  11. Phyrix

    Phyrix Forum Duke

    In grimmag you only had bronze and silver for group
    in grotto you only had bronze and silver for group
    q3 same except gold for group
    in q4 you had only bronze for both
    looked further and you had only 3 gold cups total?
    I had 7 total
    excludes silvers and bronzes
    I got 13k gold from lb
    and 1.4k prestines
    how much did you get?
    Thanks for that :)
  12. sebastian_fl

    sebastian_fl Count Count

    Lots of rangers will argue with that statement, and I will let them speak of themsleves.

    The issue is that they introduce some mess, and then patch it with another mess, and so on. Often, they patch it with OP items, not skills of rebalancing of the class in question.

    Just as an example... They introduce tons of dmg bosses, give tons of healing and lifekeeper so tanks can tank. Otherwise, how would they tank? Seems fair. They also think, okay, how archers are supposed to kill those OP tanks now? They need EA. And Q7. Now tanks can tank, archers can kill tanks (questionable in 1v1). Now they have broken everything else, because mages cannot overcome tank defense, EA makes arena 1hit no matter defense.

    If they didn't start with all that enormous damage, tanks wouldn't need to heal, archers wouldn't need EA (would need something else for PvE purposes).

    If there was no healing, hypothetically, - 1 hit arena is an easy fix - multiply everyone's HP by 10, keep the same damage. But healing makes this approach impossible.
  13. Dragonnns

    Dragonnns Forum Veteran

    I think this was a big issue with the R155 changes. They killed off a lot of the DK skills and then, later on, made it up with weapons.. but only for those leveled high enough to try for them.

    We don't need a repeat.


    Do you play 1h ranger?
    First of all, let me state that i dont take any 2h build seriously in pvp where balanced setups are required to be competitive (1v1, 3v3). 5v5 and and 6v6 dont need balanced chars sadly.

    I can only speak for myself, but im sure many other highend 1h pvp rangers on Heredur like Kukissek, Pinii, Hoher, Ilidiar, Nathernal, Analectus (...) will agree: Once the enemy dk has reached 100k+hp 75%+armor after break and using full cube set, he's almost unstoppable. They will rely on dealing you consistent dmg with angry strike (or however the first dk attack skill is called), which has a great range and animation speed, jump, groundbreaker and of course the mighty stun charge. Hit, run and heal the dmg you dealt (max 15-20k, which is healed in 5-7s) and attack again untiö you are dead. In case of emergency the massive imbalanced wisdom healing comes into play and your chances to kill the dk are gone.

    Sure, i can compete with some dks, but dks with full cube set and equally developped stats like my ranger will always win. Just to give an example: In ~20 1v1 vs Valak (highend dk in heredur) i was able to kill him only once or twice, without a victory in the end. And each kill required the immense luck of critting twice in a row with unblocked blade dance (450%), the highest 1h burst dmg in the game.
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018
    UndergroundKiller likes this.
  15. Phyrix

    Phyrix Forum Duke

    Hey Ron, I have to ask though, yes I am aware you use the bow from gnob, however I am thinking have you tried the cube set for yourself as a ranger I mean it gives amazing cd.
  16. UndergroundKiller

    UndergroundKiller Forum Expert

    A ranger should use the weapon too, wich shorten the cooldown on Thicket of Thorns (the skill that makes all little mobs explode :D) and it is 'a little' bit less usefull compared to Blade Dance... Just my thoughts tho.
  17. cdeepal

    cdeepal Forum Baron

    Can I ask You a question? Don't get me wrong.
    But, do you have over 100k Life, 80% Armor, 70% Resists, 80% block rate and 80% block strength?
    If not, then in my opinion You cannot compare Yourself with such a DK.
    If You do, then Yes, I agree that in that scenario it is definitely not fair.
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018


    I am playing with 93k hp, 16.3k dmg, 72%armor after break, 80%block. There are no chars that have 80%block reduction, at least not in a balanced setup/without spider buff.
    Due to def dks i am forced to play with as much dmg as possible and less hp. Plus a dk has higher base stats for def than a ranger, so of course i will never be able to compete with a dk in terms of ehp.
    While 10k hp difference mean 4sec healing for a dk, it means 1/10 of my hp is gone forever. That is also why a dk can play with 12k dmg successfully, while i'd only scratch them when i played with such low off stats.
    RainingBlood666 likes this.
  19. Fugnuts

    Fugnuts Forum Master

    And yet some people here complain that warriors are not OP xD...if a ranger like you cant kill a high end dk then who can? ....Definitely not any mage nor dwarf...Thumbs up BP for the current balance x)
  20. Moot

    Moot Active Author

    The problem is people ask for a DK nerf, based on the top 1% of DKs being too overpowered... you can not balance a game around the top 1% and be successful.
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