Development Team Letter - CLASS BALANCING

Discussion in 'Headquarters Archive' started by DSO Production Team, Nov 1, 2017.

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  1. Demon

    Demon Forum Mogul

    BP has a businesses to rule, they do this for money so they need to take care of players that pay, that players that has reach the end game and now do PvP, so even those kids are there so that players that pay to not leave servers because they are empty and maybe a part of those kids will became costumers will buy premium and mounts, pets,...
    D3 died because it became to easy and they dont have PvP as end game, Ah was end game, after the fall of AH D3 died because they dont rplace that with PVP, they have tried to resurect with zilion dificulties of GRifts but didn,t work.
    Same problem in DSO they think that raising the dificulties will keep players bussy and they will fail.(i admit that raising the rank of items and events can be something but pvp is the real goal)

    I want all and i play DSO because it can provide this 2 aspects, when it cand do this anymore i will jump on another game that can fulfill my desires :)

    The problem is they refuse to learn the game mechanics , the crafting , the value of items of gems and so on, because is easy to be carryed and you cant teach them because they dont join you on ts or Skype so you cant teach them because they dont care about guilds they just sit on town and ask to invite them and carry them because they know that you cant kick them from map once you start that run.
    How can you determine them to learn the game and to enjoy the game if you cant make them join a guild and learn from other colleagues.
    They will remain noobs and eventually will quit the game or maybe they will try to steal better accounts, just a small percent will learn.
    This is the reality not fancy words.

    It can be too late, i try to make them understand that they focus on other thinghs that we dont really need instead PvP all this time that we put us to wait.
    You know why they dont enjoy pvp? because they are smash by a hit, that is why.
    If they can chance pvp so that more players form that pvE mass will enjoy arena they will win so many costumers and they will get more money.

    I think you need to read all hotfixes and we talk after.You will see that all new features has create problems.

    And now you wonder why they fail, maybe they get bad feedback and the decision they made bring you to DSO, such a pleasure to have you here :)

    I understand that they try to separate the PvP from PvE with that passive paragon like skills but we need explanations and how they see the future of this, what they expect from new changes so that we understand and accept them or not.
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
  2. Enaggelion

    Enaggelion Forum Apprentice

    I would like to request for a few things and I hope this is the right place to get my message to the DSO team since this is the latest topic.

    1. Please add an event item bag because space is really an issue, especially with all the promotions of crafting where players need to store a lot for crafting.
    2. On the guild icon, please add features to allow players to see the list of available guilds and make requests to join one. That page is very empty if you are not in the guild. Guild requests or invitations should be done there as an option. It's so hard for players to find available guilds or identify which one is the English guild etc.
    3. In the daily quests to earn clovers, please give players the option not to do pvp because pvp as everyone knows is an unfair game in DSO, e.g how could a regular infernal player vs a noob? The gears just doesn't match up. If you must then make a mutual mode where all pvp players would have all gears and stats even so they can play a fair game when they enter that mode.
    4. There is no point in pushing players to team play because the reality is people only like to play with people they like and the fact is, in DSO, the strong will only team up with the strong. So it's a personal choice (and and issue of trust) and DSO do not need to add benefits or force people to play in teams. Most guilds or players in general are solos because it's hard to share common goals or match common time zone.
    5. It would be great if you could work on making all the events less grindy and more rewarding. This would be helpful to cater for players who could only afford to play 2-3 hours a day.
    6. Lastly, legendary items don't seem very legendary and it doesn't give you the wow factor. I have a green item that's better than a legendary one. My suggestion is for each colour item, there should be a min and max scaling such that blue is always better than green and pink is always better than blue etc - that would help to make the item more worthing of it's colour.

    I hope these ideas are well received. Thanks for reading!
  3. Fugnuts

    Fugnuts Forum Master

    Well said.DSO should learn from other MMO's mistakes.If they keep increasing the infernal modes they will follow D3's path and eventually die just like D3 did.No one likes to start from 0...period.Even if some beg for increased difficulties on forums...If DSO continues with this increase in lvls, infernal modes, they will end up like D3.I suggest going for a gameplay like LoL has.That game made and makes history and it takes less $ to play it than DSO.Focus on skins/mounts and make the rest "FFA".LoL did and its the best in the world right now so u cant go wrong with that XD

    Increasing difficulties (new infernal modes) will be ok for a while but after infernal 5-6 ppl will just get bored of having to start farming again and again after a new difficulty pops up and eventually start looking for other games.Many games did this same thing and end up dying because as i said and proven by other games, having to start again from 0 and the repetition that this requires only kills the game, not improves it at all.

    So keep on going with new infernal modes, keep increasing the lvl caps and see where that will go.This game is already a NO- GO for beginners due to the amount of $ required for gems and the amount of glyphs that each has to farm.Keep adding new gems/difficulty levels and ...well..die like those games who focused on this did.:)
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
  4. sargon234

    sargon234 Commander of the Forum

    Lol is a moba, not an hack and slash mmo rpg. Increasing difficulties are fine, increasing levels is fine, there just need to be an interval of time between each increase. Blizzard releases patches every few months with new raids and each expansion every one-two years, and that game is 13 years old, which is amazing for a game of that type to be still alive after all those years

    That model can work here also, just give players some time between each expansion and between each new difficulty mode
  5. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Simple... don't pick wins or kills, just battles. A clover is more than worth three to six ander resets if you get unlucky. Then, you don't need wins; you just need to show up.
    Just because you haven't found a good guild doesn't mean they don't exist. No, I don't help random strangers that whisper me in another language asking for help. What I do is help newer players that join a guild I'm associated with. I've helped plenty of people complete their PW quests, go through events on difficulties that they couldn't handle on their own, and offered advice based on years of DSO experience. If anything, the lack team play has been one of the driving factors of the strong helping the strong because the weak had little to nothing to offer and the strong do all the work. Maybe if they had included cooperative aspects a long time ago, the difference might not be as insane.
    So what should the players who do have time? If every event can be finished with only 2-3 hours a day (P.S. most already can), then what do players do with more time?
    And that would defeat the entire purpose of crafting. Once upon a time, before crafting, I could have completely agreed, but these days, most legendaries are nothing more than crafting fodder.

    Your entire post is one of those posts that points out problems or complains about something that you don't like, but then you fail to offer any creative ideas, insight into how to improve the situation, or even a comprehensive explanation of the issue.

    For example, you complain about events are too grindy/not rewarding and your suggestion is to make it less grindy and more rewarding. How insightful! If you really wanted to address the problem, you could say something like this:
    "Right now some events are difficult for newer players to complete. I suggest that you increase the size of the progress drops. I know that this will make the events too easy for older players, so you should introduce some sort of incentive for them too. For example, you could make an Event Leaderboard for each major event so that those players who keep playing after finishing have something to work towards. Another idea would be an "extended progress bar" for after the main bar is finished where players could earn essence, lock picks, and other small incentives."

    That is thinking of the solution instead of thinking about the problem.
    gun and Rhysingstar like this.
  6. Rhysingstar

    Rhysingstar Forum Ambassador

    What I would love to see is a parallel world event similar to this new one that is coming. It would eliminate a little bit of the basic boring grind (farming keys) and bring in the other aspects like materi frags and leaderboards that we already love.

    BTW, I love the idea of an extended progress bar for those who wish to grind it out. If memory serves me right BigPapa suggested something similar to that a few years back. It might have been something towards wisdom points, but it was along the line of rewarding the harder core players.
  7. Enaggelion

    Enaggelion Forum Apprentice

    Baragain, I know you are a respected forum writer and I would like to thank you for your constructive feedback. I wrote my list with limited time and haven't thought much about how to improve - just indicating some issues in hope that someone could make some suggestions, so hopefully it didn't came across the wrong way. I am not a regular writer and what I wanted to suggest, I wanted to say it long time ago.

    Here's my second opinion to your response:

    1. In regards to the daily quests, I believe there are many people who do not want to play pvp so there's should be an option for pve only. I know that you can just turn up, get killed and move on - but again, what's fun is that? And what's the point? We are forced to do pvp for the sake of those pvp players so that they could score more points. Since pvp is not a fair game, why can't we pve players just not rock meaninglessly and standing there just to be killed?

    2. In regards to group playing - what is said is ideal to a lot of players out there. I have been in guilds in and out and a lot of them shut down due to bad or absent management. When it comes to personal pursuit, the 'I' factor comes first, so even in a guild, fellow players would only help or team up with you if you are not a hinderance. And personally I think that's fair enough. I am not discouraging the idea of group playing, in fact, I totally agree with you that there should be more group playing. However, reality in this game doesn't go that way due to many factors. If the game subtly forces players to play in groups then the designers have to consider the aspect of kicking players out in the middle of an event etc, along with other issues of people not getting along etc. So this is complex. If anyone could find a win win solution - be my guest.

    3. In regards to grinding events - I concur with your suggestion. There should be a basic event bar and an extended bar for those who could do more. However, most event rewards now are quite unattractive, such as getting 1/2 amphorae keys etc. My suggestion is if the DSO developing team ran out of ideas then how about giving anders?

    4. On the last point about gears - my suggestion would not defeat the idea of crafting. You can still have the classes for each colour and yet craft them to be even better. At least in this way, you won't have such a wide range of randomness where a green piece could have better specification than a legendary piece - it just doesn't make sense. Each colour piece should be worth something more than a it's lower colour piece, e.g. a pink should have higher stats than blue and green.

    5. My last suggestion for the DSO team (which I missed to post) was set the count down time for premium/deluxe players in real time, that is, it only counts when they log on. Since players paid for it, why should their paid credits be used up or be wasted when they are not even playing? Personally, I believe more people would be premium members if it is set in real time because they are getting 100% of in return for their playing time.

    _Baragain_ likes this.
  8. sargon234

    sargon234 Commander of the Forum

    I think the hunt games that give the mount sphere should be from now on similar to the big hunt event
    So you should be able to complete easily by doing bosses in the scalable dungeons, and they should be monthly like the moon events, they are ultimately a cosmetic thing,bit that would improve them immensely
  9. Aslandroth

    Aslandroth Regular

    I feel compelled to respond to this, as a player that hates playing PvP. I do PvP only for the daily's and then, only when clover is the reward. I'm not very good at it, but I decided to just show up, try my best and collect the rewards. In the beginning, I got my butt handed to me quite often but do you wanna know something? It forced me to become a better player. I use the "Play x battles" as a safety net but I try to win, and its quite rewarding when I win 2 or 3 in a row.

    This has also given me insight into the complaints people have about classes being unbalanced. I play a 1H DK and sometimes it is frustrating. But in the arena, I've seen spam mages using their tricks, fallen prey to them, as well as used patience and beat them. I feel there is less imbalance among the classes than most people realize, and the discussion takes away from the slew of other problems that need more priority addressing.

    Lastly, the PvP battles have definitely made me a better PvE player. They will never be my favorite part of the game, but they can be rewarding if you want them to be.
    _G_R_A_M_P_S_ and cdeepal like this.
  10. cdeepal

    cdeepal Forum Baron

    Since there were many topics that people are currently discussing, I would like to give my opinion on these as well.

    PvP - should still be an important part of the game. There are many players including me who enjoys PvP and if not for PvP then some of us wouldn't even be playing this game.

    Daily reward quests - I get that if you dislike doing PvP, then no one should force you to do it. There should be other means of completing the daily quests. Also, for me I don't like completing X number of quests. As a 55 player I don't enjoy doing low level quests to get the reward. My suggestion is when you are 55, remove the complete number of quests scenarios from daily rewards.
    Also, currently the most time consuming part of the daily quest deal is the PvP section. This should be simplified to reduce the time it takes to complete this section. My suggestion is 5/10/20 player kills, 1/2/4 participation and -/1/2 wins for completing the PvP quests.
    In addition to the current kill leader/champion, You can introduce kill 1/3/6 boss, world boss creatures. (The 3 world boss is already there)

    Group Play - Same thing as PvP. No one should be forced to play in a group. Yes, I get that this is an MMORPG, but that doesn't mean we should be forced to play in groups. Sometimes we may feel like grouping, sometimes we may not. There could be people who prefer to do their farming solo, but then do PvP in groups. It seems DSO is trying to force us into playing in groups with the new events. I don't think this is a good idea.

    Events - Seems like more and more that BigPoint is trying to favor the power gamers. New events can only be completed by power gamers. There seems to have less and less chance for casual gamers. I think this is going in the wrong direction. An event should give rewards to both casual players as well as power players.

    Let me give you a good example how to make both kinds of players happy:
    The new event only has a 40% HP rune at the very end. My suggestion is to give a 20% HP rune when 10% of the progress is complete (for the casual player), another 20% HP rune when 20% progress is complete, another 20% HP rune for 30% progress (both for semi-casual), 30% HP rune at 50% complete (for power gamer), and the last 30% HP rune at 100% (for extreme power gamer)
    (NOTE: The total reward is the same, the 40% HP rune was broken down into 2x 30% and 3x 20% runes)
  11. sargon234

    sargon234 Commander of the Forum

    Given the amount of soloable bosses in the game, noone is forcing you to group and noone will force you. But grouping should be encouraged, it's an MMO, it should be more convenient, but i think solo should still be an option
  12. Akageshi

    Akageshi Forum Duke

    A by-the-way question: Is level 60 planned?
    If it is, I wanna know when.
    I don't want to spend a single draken or materi fragment on something that becomes obsolete in a moment.

    Last time there was a discussion on this, the DSO team said it depended on the community mainly.
  13. sargon234

    sargon234 Commander of the Forum

    So then we need to voice our displasure to the raising of the level cap so early
  14. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    It wouldn't "become obsolete in a moment." I am still using some LVL 50 items because I'm working on their replacements. They are not as good as what I have planned, but they are far from "obsolete." On top of that, the old items don't even have base stats like the new items, so when LVL 60 comes, unless they do another item overhaul, the base stats should just be the same, but higher. This makes them even more resistant to becoming obsolete. Then, factor in the new system of being able soul core craft items up in both tier and level and items are more future proof than ever.

    The only thing you have to worry about is the introduction of some new meta defining set that is absolutely necessary for a given build type (like Bellicose for DPS or Battleworn for Tanks), but since there is no way we could possibly know when one of those sorts of sets is coming, the best thing you can do is leave a moderate buffer of draken (12k-15k) in case you are unlucky and need to resort to buying the top tier version of the set if it is from an event. If it is from materi frags, then it would be permanent and there is no rush to buy the set day 1 since you would likely need to build the item you'll want to transfer to it.
  15. Akageshi

    Akageshi Forum Duke

    Well, if it's so no problem, why did the majority of the people posting in the forum react negatively to the future plan of level 60 cap in the first development team letter? Their arguments were basically about having to start all over again, perhaps before even having finished their level 55 gear.

    Now I'm just kinda confused. Why isn't anyone shivering with excitement to get a new level cap and a ton of new content and fun that it'd bring? Perhaps because it is a problem for players, after all?

    But anyway, I just originally posted the question here about whether and when the level 60 cap in hope that maybe the dev team would give us a more precise info on that. I know it's kinda off topic here (but it's kinda not at the same time).
  16. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Because there is still plenty to do at LVL 55 and because there are many things that would be preferable to a level cap raise/expansion. If they are working on an expansion, that is time taken away from the things that most players want more. Things like Quality of Life improvements, PvP balance improvements, group benefits, new character class, new events that are not recycles or dressed up old maps, new sets, new parallel worlds (Gorga's next), bug fixes, and a bunch of other things.

    The important thing is that because of the recent changes to the way items work, a level raise will not be as crippling as it has been in the past and that means there is no real reason to make significant long range plans with a level cap in mind.

    Simple... people over react and always think that it is the end of the world.
    Rhysingstar likes this.
  17. Rhysingstar

    Rhysingstar Forum Ambassador

    You are right, it shouldn't be a major change given the current dynamics.

    It's not exactly without precedent though. DSO has a way of messing things up with expansions.
  18. sargon234

    sargon234 Commander of the Forum

    They promised they would bring back sargon sometime ago, we have to yet see him
  19. KrivQrac

    KrivQrac Forum Apprentice

    I was praying for class balancing for a long time and thank you for working on it. I just hope it will bring back the purpose of 1h dk in pvp, because playing it lost the sense. If the player try to make balance between dmg and def stats, because playing to win in exaustion time is much too irritating, he is pretty powerless with other classes who can make one shot kill even with lower CV, only because they have range attack, and dk has to approach. Also, playing time for building enormous dmg is much less than playing time for building adequat def stats to survive it (even if dk make it, it will mean so low dmg that oponent's regen is higher than his dmg). I believe there is alot of players who want to show their skill in arena, and not only to gamble in "who hits first-wins" system. And enormous dmg doesn't help in that. Ofcourse, I will continue to play even if I have to switch to 2h mode and jump on peoples head hoping that I will hit 'em first, but please, reconsider 1h dks. I believe they present the key class for other classes arena builds. Thank you.
  20. rogue07

    rogue07 Someday Author

    you can do the passive pw dungeon quests for those by the way. like just enter q1 on painful and rush all the way to boss, kill and collect chest. one quest finished. sometimes i even choose this DQ because i almost never have any other reason to do painful dungeons anymore.

    dso as the way it is right now... is wayyy too antisocial for an MMORPG. creating a necessity to start working as a team, play with others and communicate, could indeed make dso a friendly, social environment again.. instead of the depressing solitary confinement it is right now.

    i still think the option of playing solo is still there, because it doesnt seem like they're making it any harder to do... instead, just making group play much more efficient, and easier.
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