Development Team Letter - CLASS BALANCING

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  1. _G_R_A_M_P_S_

    _G_R_A_M_P_S_ Old Hand

    There is one skill i'd like to be reworked. Now, i dont have much (up to date) experience with the other classes, so if it s a wrong suggestion, i guess you guys will give a shout. I played a ranger back when gorga was still the ultimate boss and i hated it. I played a DK when lvl 45 was the max lvl and it was great. Then i quit for a while, so playing a DK may be different these days. Now i play a SW and i see many people on the forum say SW are underpowered.
    Anyways, i'd like the ice sphere to be reworked. It has advantages and disadvantages, but imo the disadvantages are too many. The advantage is that it is powerful as long as you fight big groups of small monsters that walk close to each other, while you are far away enough. The disadvantages are that it is a slow attack, short in range, and it only deals significant damage where it explodes, so if you get cornered you cant even hit the mobs properly.
    - So my suggestion is that it should deal the full amount of damage through it s entire course instead of at the location of the explosion.
    - Besides that (not a must, but it would be nice) it should give full damage on a hit, instead of partial damage because it didnt hit at the center.
    - And last but not least, it shouldnt hit staircases and other elevations (non-objects) in the terrain.
    mestamer67 likes this.
  2. Saved_81

    Saved_81 Forum Master

    You seem very stressed mate, take a chill pill, enjoy the life, have some fun and take a fresh air breath, it helps ;)
    Oh yes, you are a big man I'm so proud of you :cool:
    Demon likes this.
  3. EhtovK

    EhtovK Old Hand

    Just the type of answer you'd expect from someone who ran out of arguments, unless you've tested the scenarios and have seen the efficiency of each set please refrain from spreading misinformation, I use Q4 and have stumbled upon loads of SW trying that exact same "strategy", spam fireballs with Q7 in PvE, and it works just as good as using the staff as a club and beating the mobs with it, it actually sucks so bad that despite what I said earlier in this thread about our main damaging skills almost never getting their max damage output they still beat fireball in every aspect of PvE. So, every SW that's worth 2 cents will laugh at the expense of your "proposition".
    rogue07 and sebastian_fl like this.
  4. sargon234

    sargon234 Commander of the Forum

    Isn't q7 a pvp set?

    Even those sw who use q7 set still use magic missile + ice sphere in pve, fireball is not good for pve
  5. Fugnuts

    Fugnuts Forum Master

    I totally agree with these.At least this way SWs will have a good dmg dealer skill (which wont be entirely useless) in PvP and wont have to relly on fireball spamming and ice missile spamming.Which is also what people requested....for SWs to stop spamming fireballs and ice missiles xD. Bp gets to kill two birds with one shot like this.Besides, its not like people will be able to spam ice sphere since it takes like 40-50 mana per skill.
    mestamer67 likes this.
  6. magicus

    magicus Forum Apprentice

    I have a curiosity: why do not I see more dwarves in pvp and pve? Have they all deleted?
  7. kavekanis

    kavekanis Forum Apprentice

    because bp pays us a holiday in the Caribbean for Christmas is just another privilege of the dwarves my mague still sleep under a bridge o_Oo_Oo_Oo_Oo_Oo_Oo_Oo_O
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2017
  8. rogue07

    rogue07 Someday Author

    this is what ive been saying all along... after so much time and money invested into my SW, I've gotten my base dmg to 20k (after i get a gold base staff ill be at 22k) and finished all my other crafts...

    the saddest part about it is, the other day i played a friend's ranger, who has 17k base dmg and all other stats were about 10-15% lower than my SW, and you know what happened? I cleared the dungeon about 30% faster than i did on my full crafted and t5 geared SW.

    its absurd, in the current game meta, in terms of PvE damage output its 2h DK > Ranger > Steam mech > Spellweaver

    I've even tried using a crafted t5 gold based bear staff and seeing if changing from sphere to lightning would make any difference, but in the end, it took me 4 extra minutes to kill the boss. i was running 2/5 with a friend tank to test it out and I felt simply miserable.

    the nonsensical range requirement of frozen sphere is crippling. at this point of the game as an end level player, I can wholeheartedly say that i want the phasing effect of frozen sphere removed and turned it into an impact skill.

    that way, at least we wont have to spend half the time in a dungeon, desperately running around and trying to get into the right position.
    if sphere became an impact skill and had its range increased by about 15%, it could potentially bring SW back into the PvE meta. or at least make a difference as to where SWs are in the current game.

    as for pvp affects from this, you still have to consider that frozen sphere has the slowest flight speed of all projectile based skills in game, so when facing against similarly skilled players in pvp, its a rare occasion that i manage to hit anyone with a frozen sphere, unless its a tank. it will still have the mid range limitation.

    so instead of it exploding after a certain distance traveled, since its now impact based you can simply make it vanish after reaching maximum flight distance. that way it wont be regarded as being as broken as EA used to be before.

    this specific change alone would help SWs so much in pve.

    and if anyone thinks an impact frozen sphere is too OP for pvp, ill tell you this...

    Ranger 2h with herald:
    - a homing skill (bird of prey) once cast follows and hits a target for 300% base damage, and if they survive that, they are still stunned and marked.
    - using net to trigger herald buff is much easier than it is to use meteor, due to vastly faster impact speed and low cool down in comparison to 1min cd of meteor. also added burn damage, mark, EA spam, each hit dealing 500% base dmg since target is now marked, and there is no variable damage output like with sphere, also armor break (85%) that is much stronger than singularity.
    - even without mark, EA still does a flat non-variable 375% base damage.
    - also note Rangers have about 10-15% more hp than a SW.

    Ranger 1h with buckler:
    - with a crafted buckler, reaching 80% block rate for pvp, they are capable of not only surviving a volley of fireballs but they still require no more than 1 crit EA to kill said SW, because I have seen 1h rangers capable of critting 24-30k EA on a 1h build.
    - with the extremely high mobility, while still being perfectly capable of killing anyone in pvp, having about 50k hp with points in hp in wisdom talents, they become a menace in pvp.

    DK 2h with herald:
    - out of the 2 stun breaks, Dragon Hide gives 8 seconds of immunity to control effects, keeps all defenses at 80% and also regenerating 30% of the damage dealt in HP.
    - Mighty Wild Swing deals 200% base dmg in a large AoE radius, which also regens 20% of the damage as HP.
    - 3 stuns; Iron Brow no cooldown if crit, armor breaks for 85%; Charge deals 175% base damage, and if target is bleeding there is no cooldown; Ground Breaker, 100% base damage and 200% extra base damage if target near end of the trail, also activates herald buff meaning if this skill hits you, the next skill regardless of what it is, will indeed kill you.
    - Rage jump, the only jump skill in game that does damage, 125% base damage, Hitbox is about the size of a Singularity. also, as an added bonus, kicks up defenses to 80%.
    - p.s. DK utilizes dragan set laser better than any other class since they chase. 50% base damage per 0.5 seconds.

    DK 1h with/without life saver:
    - tend to have an upwards of 90k hp
    - 80% block rate, with the capability of healing in combat. 1 battle frenzy can heal you more than 1 fireball crit.
    - with an attack speed of about 2.5, is capable of stun-locking and doing about 8-10k per hit with crit Rage Attacks.
    - zoning capabilities using Banner of War to remove rage costs, spam healing.
    - nearly impossible to kill 1v1

    2h steam mech:
    - extremely high attack speed, doesnt rely on crit damage
    - zoning capabilities with proper turret placements
    - higher hp than SW due to not needing anything on rings except HP enchantments
    - iron dwarf with stun immunities and move speed
    *not really the greatest pvp class though.

    1h steam mech with shield:
    - due to iron dwarf skill, they tend to be the best flag runners

    2h spellweaver with herald:
    - spams fireball which deals 125% on impact and 90% as total burn damage over time
    - also spams ice missile, which deals 30% x 3 per cast, with slowing effects
    - lowest mobility of all classes, regardless of mind control + teleport spam
    - lowest hp of all classes
    - at flag bearer rank against flag bearers and up, a crit fireball isnt enough to kill spellweavers, once the player has full damage reduction from pvp talents and about 40k hp, enemy can easily survive a crit fireball even from the strongest players.
    - not much combat diversity, aside from spamming fireballs, ice missile and then running away.
    - has 2 stuns, one is mid ranged, other is melee ranged. no long range stun.
    - 2 stun breaks, one of which is a "stun" by itself, but melee range and has roughly 0.4 second casting time.
    the other stun break is the only location changing skill the class has."
    - no healing capabilities
    - herald buff is near impossible to trigger in pvp, unless in 5v5 where you have a slight chance to do so, 60 second cooldown.

    1h sw:
    - is a joke
    - the skills dont have enough base damage to make this a logical build for pvp
    - without herald set, player is stuck spamming ice missiles, the second slowest projectile speed skill in game.
    - player could potentially just use this to run flag in 5v5 in case no other tanky class on team.
    but requires protection from teammates, due to not having a skill set that corresponds with taking multiple hits from enemies.

    now for PvE (keep in mind all these are examples of characters with exactly the same or slightly lower stats as my SW):

    2h DK with herald:
    - map 1 and map 2, there is no need to kite at all, just group mob together and kill.
    - almost no reason to use potions, due to immense tanky-ness and life regen capabilities
    - the primary skill has a 3rd upgrade that removes 1 second from all cooldowns per hit, more efficient than singularity
    - sigris set sucks for DK, so capable of utilizing witch seeker set without any loss
    - fastest and strongest PvE class in the game

    2h Ranger with herald:
    - despite on the character creation screen, it says, "not good against hordes" rangers have much better mob killing skillset than SW, whose "forte" is crowd control
    - net + EA spam destroys even the largest of mobs in seconds
    - thicket of thorns with the chain reaction, also destroys a mob size of greater than 20 monsters in one blast
    - little to no combat preparation time, very simple, fast and effective skill set.
    - cooldowns are extremely low, net has a chance of not even going on cooldown.
    - 2 location changing skills
    - one skill that fully regens concentration
    - blade dance is a more efficient cooldown skill, requiring nothing more than a mob to phase through.
    - EA also has armor break capabilities
    - a wood sprite to regen hp, mark targets and also can be used for projectile blocking
    - all skills are impact based, no range limitation except for max projectile range
    - capable of using witch seeker set without losing anything special from sigris set
    - second fastest PvE class

    steam mechanics with herald or fullmoon gun:
    - best mobile PvE class, capable of dealing a lot of damage while on the move
    - no crit requirement, just full attack speed and attack power, so no variables in terms of whether or not its a critical hit
    - if necessary can use double mech turrets to remove any cooldowns but often unnecessary due to low cooldowns
    - capable of building HP rings and HP necklace for lots of max HP.
    - sigris set sucks for SM, so utilizes witch seeker set.
    - all skills are impact based or zone based, no real range limitations
    - doesnt require much combat prep time
    - 3rd fastest PvE class

    - primary damage skill is frozen sphere, has a very specific range. impact radius is half the size of a Singularity, and due to the sphere mechanics, it requires centralized shots, which is about 40% of its total impact radius.
    making this a ridiculously difficult skill to use in combat in comparison to every other classes skill set.
    - the mid range skill requires the player to be in dangerous positions, that are often fatal. if its a mini boss of fire enchantment, player must kite until blasts are over or interrupt before it casts.
    - for map1 and map2, relies heavily on guardian or mind control, guardian is useless in fatal and higher due to having about 30k or so hp and dies in the first volley of enemy attacks.
    - requires high combat prep time, for mobs to mind control the right target, use meteor/singularity at the right position at the right time, within 1 second, now has to relocate themselves to be in the right distance for frozen sphere
    - due to the constant need to run, and fight moving targets, most skills are incapable of dealing full damage.
    - the herald buff skill is meteor, has high cool down time and about 3 seconds base impact time, can be reduced to 2 seconds.
    with mind control player gets one free meteor, but the next one will initiate a full 60 second cooldown time.
    - cooldown reduction skill is singularity, 30 cooldown on the skill itself. requires 8 seconds of staying stationary inside the singularity to remove the cooldown of their skills. this is also their one and only armor break skill. its nearly impossible to use it for armor breaking AND cooldown reduction at the same time.
    - requires sigris set to function, due to high reliability on ice missile for slowing, damage dealing and cost reduction of sphere and lightning strike. otherwise there is no mana sustain, as these skills require spamming to kill anything.
    therefor, unable to use Witch Seeker set.
    **p.s. sigris ice missile doesnt work on bosses, meaning no cost reduction for lightning strike or frozen sphere during bosses.
    this is strange to me, because rangers can mark bosses for marking bonuses BUT dev team has made it possible to mark bosses without the bosses suffering any control effects...
    so in that regard I dont see why they cant make bosses immune to slowing effects of "frost" while still covering them in "frost" so a SW can use ice missile to reduce lightning strike and frozen sphere cost**

    - players can opt for bearach set, but the damage output is much lower than with herald set.
    lightning strike also has an impact time and an impact radius, due to which more often than not, the player does much less damage than they should've.
    lightning strike also requires lightning charges to make sure they deal max damage.
    the max damage of a lightning strike on a lightning charged enemy, is roughly the same as a frozen sphere.
    therefor, using bear set just leaves the player even further in the damage meta than they already are.

    in conclusion: the most difficult, slowest and weakest PvE class in the game.
    massive combat prep times, high cooldowns, low mobility, low damage output, low defenses.
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
  9. heror

    heror Forum Baron

    insert thank you meme here
    Ive been saying this to literary any Dk who i know in the game and the argument is you run like rabbits.Man you are a legend "claps"
    rogue07 likes this.
  10. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    In conclusion you are lacking playing experience.
    Here is the proof:
    you just jeopardised your and your friend's account ... you can both get banned.
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
  11. -HARRA81-

    -HARRA81- Forum Mogul

    Santa Klaus have called all the dwarves for prepearing the christmas :rolleyes:
  12. Nelias

    Nelias Someday Author

    you are comletely wrong with everything you have said..
  13. sargon234

    sargon234 Commander of the Forum

    And he should, he violated the rules and he was clever enough to reveal it to the public

    The sw need some tweaking
    captain66 likes this.
  14. rogue07

    rogue07 Someday Author

    enough with the crap Traki, its a friend i know in real life, its not selling or buying accounts, we just tried out each other's characters and in my reading through the terms and conditions, i see no violation made on my part.

    so please stay on topic and stop trying to troll and cop out of every possible scenario.

    lacking player experience is when you refuse to play with the current meta by refusing to play "hoaxbows" and refusing to use herald set.
    seriously what exactly do you think you know? aside from being a stubborn impractical gamer, you got nothing besides half a decade in the game and still oblivious to more than half of its entire concept.

    so please, do enlighten me about my lack of experience.

    once more, as i said in my monologue, i have tried all possible sets, crafted.
    i monitor my damage output through thorough testing, while you... you're a perception based player.

    its amusing to me how you have this arrogant attitude towards anyone and everyone except yourself, within my 1 year on dso I have accomplished more than you have in your last 5 years.

    yes i have seen your SW and its craft and gear is horrendous. i mean seriously, what the hell kind of SW uses ring of life?

    ...and you tell me I lack player experience lol.

    you said it yourself, its nothing great compared to players on live servers.
    and guess what, I'm a live server player and (aside from not having all royal gems due to just 1 year on game) I'm currently among the strongest SWs on my server.
    only weaker than those out there with all royal gems but my gear and craft is complete, and my weapon, adorn and rings are lvl 60. the rest doesn't really matter with GoP.

    either contribute productive criticism or simply don't respond if you have nothing to add but nonsensical trolling crap.
    what i say, i say on behalf of a vast majority of players stuck with the currently weakest PvE class in game, not just my opinion but players who have been around for as long as you have, players that are the top SWs on my server.

    I'm desperately trying to help a class from going extinct, which it really is, and soon I too will be switching to Ranger or leaving DSO, after having invested so much in a class that can barely function on par with the rest.

    while you, you speak on behalf of yourself and no one else.
    your nonsense on the forums have gone on for long enough, you do nothing but obstruct players from trying to give feedback and sharing their insights and ideas.

    aside from your test server threads and wiki page, everything else you do nothing but toxic on the forums. enough is enough.

    more than half of the player suggestions or feedback is derailed by no one other than you. you're responsible for crippling the feedback system on the forums more than anyone else on here, and of course you get away with it due to elite status.

    p.s. its funny you always tend to attack me for literally anything i say on forums BUT when Ehtovak said essentially the same things i said on my post, you simply did not launch your crap at him.

    subjectivism, look it up, you seem to be the king of it at this point.

    i did not violate the rules,
    - i wasn't farming on my friend's account
    - i wasn't being paid for some service
    - i didn't trade or sell my account for his
    - i know the person in real life, so its about as much of a violation as me going over to his house and logging on from his PC, which i could've done easily, and with his consent.

    before you call someone out, make sure you read the terms of service properly beforehand, because i actually have.

    once more, please go ahead and show me a part of the Terms of Service that say exactly as you said, "sharing is against the rules" and i will happily accept it.
    though when you read through the ToS, you will find the points that i mentioned above.

    in all honesty, all I did was just TEST his character out, and for fair testing purposes, i refrained from picking up any loot from monsters as well. so on its own, he benefitted in no way from me. and also it was not even PW so he didn't get leaderboard points for it either.

    in that i have yet to see one single violation of the ToS, and due to the massive lack of testing capabilities on DSO, its not really practical to join test server and spend half a year leveling up and gearing up, only to test something out.

    so to provide proper feedback, this was necessary. i didn't just do it for LOLs.

    so please, don't spread nonsensical self righteous cancer without proper understanding.
    have a good day.

    p.s. I don't really have much left to do on DSO anyway, so lets "imagine" that i do get "banned" for purely imaginative reasons - i still lose nothing.
    I'm not here to speak for myself, before I leave DSO, i wanted to try and contribute to its playerbase to some extent beforehand.

    as my goals on DSO have been established. including collecting all PW uniques of max tier, crafting and perfecting my active sets, maxing out my primary item set levels, finishing all events throughout a year and collecting all possible uniques and rewards from them as well.

    so try re-evaluating your commitment to the forums and whom you're trying to benefit.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
    ULTRAPEINLICH likes this.
  15. sargon234

    sargon234 Commander of the Forum

    Sharing is against the rules
    So you should be punished and harshly to serve as an example, to teach others not to do that, at least your violation of the rules will be useful for the comunity
  16. sebastian_fl

    sebastian_fl Count Count

    There used to be a couple in DSO. Met in 3v3, fighting each other. They got engaged, she moved from Bulgaria to Czech Rep, got married and now they have a little dwarf)

    There is no rules in the world that would prevent those fellas from playing each other account together to test things etc) those rules were designed to prevent nonstop play, account selling. They were not just made up out of nothing for the purpose of just being there. If that couple got banned, for instance, that would be symbolic, taking into account the botters do not get banned.

    And, even though I see what you are saying, dude spent a lot of value time providing his viewpoint, and quite a lot of reasonable info. And even though I don't know why he has touched the sharing topic himself, I think his post should be respected for what is there besides sharing. And you have two options, one being discuss that off-topic flavor of sharing he touched, which will get us nowhere, and second being the topic of the imbalance he well described. Your choice.

    As for me, I can prove mathematically there is no balance on the widespread of the Tanks' development level and capabilities, as well as balance cannot be achieved having passive regen skills working of max HP. But I doubt there is a single individual on the forum (and dso team whatsoever) to get the math, and not get into some trolling or side conversation as this one proves. So I wouldn't bother. And you keep trolling, and keep playing this crap as is. And let them polish the poop. Cheers.
    rogue07 likes this.
  17. Nostradamus88

    Nostradamus88 Active Author

    well at least tell us if it is going to change something. Because if things stay like this i am seriously thinking about changing into dk
  18. sargon234

    sargon234 Commander of the Forum

    My problem is the fact that he broke the rules, the rules must always be respected
    The couple situation is an exception to the rule

    Otherwise we get the situation were botters are running around unpunished, because the rule of the law has been neglected

    Obedience and law, the most important values

    The tank analysis doesn't have the depth yours have, like the one you made in the life keeper thread
    That's the only thing i can say about it
  19. sebastian_fl

    sebastian_fl Count Count

    I think about the same everyday. And I do have some noob tank, with some junk items, and a little bit of gems. Nothing crazy though, I doubt I have anything above radiant, perhaps a few. I even have some special gems no obtainable anymore, like jewel of immunity I got in 2013 or whatever. But that was enough to kill some t1-t2 bosses.

    But then I look at my mage, 100% crafted, all offensive gems royal, Def min sacred, all possible speed gems and 3 royal sapphires waiting to do something with them. All glyphed up. Tons of pets and mounts. Mage that can solo mortis and everything else pretty easy. And I just can't give up all the effort and money I put there. It is at the level I don't need to pay a penny besides prem and do whatever I want. But then I go PVP, and see a botter tank tripling his HP in duel with enormous regen calling me some junk. And I think again.

    And I think again that there is no way they will separate PVP and PVE. And that means they will have keep all that regen so tanks dont cry they are melee blah blah blah. And they will balance at the noob level so 90% of tanks dont go here bananas crying. So all those noobs would be given regen to survive, no matter what it means for end game.

    So I think again doing tank. But then look back at my mage with all his runes, and I don't want to spend money to get all of that all over again. And so on.

    I think I missed the point of return few years ago when I recovered my tank from nowhere, but then switch back to a mage. Should have stick to it.

    Just did few mortis kills with a dwarf. Strong dwarf, sure, but so I thought I am. Dwarf quickly showed me what it is to be pro at the boss fight. He tanked mortis inf2 with ease, didn't move a single time besides when in the immunity circle, handled all the mortis breathes, and was still doing more damage than I. When I tried to solo it, I had to go full ballroom dancing, preparing potions during the first phase, so can survive the knights later. Dwarf didn't move a bit. Just stand there killing it all.

    What the heck is wrong with me. I would pay a million of ander to change the class as is. Just to keep all the gems and runes.
    rogue07, -HARRA81- and Nostradamus88 like this.
  20. Nostradamus88

    Nostradamus88 Active Author

    I am not at your level, but not too far away. Everything crafted, pets mounts costume emotes.. gems royal and sacred, all glyphs. Hpwever against those monsters i will always be inferior. This is precisely what i wanted to say.
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