DK running until time finished (Fair battles ?)

Discussion in 'General Archive' started by ~THE~LEGEND~, Jun 6, 2014.

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    ~THE~LEGEND~ Someday Author

    How could ranger or mage won a battle against DK who has skills heal his hp alone by his skills if he keep running ? is that a fair battles for big point ?

    its time to make DRAW so they have no reason to run ..

    Example :
  2. perrush

    perrush Active Author


    what you don't show is that as soon as a DK start running towards you in order to attack, you (and almost all other RA and SW) start running away. So why do you complain when a DK does the same thing that you would do ???

    Long story short ... ... you didn't win


    I want to add one thing. I often do the same as this DK, just to force the RA or SW to take risks. If it works, I can land a headbutt and a smash ... If not ... I win by exhaustion.
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2014
    thebearreturns and spartawars like this.
  3. Multi-Sev

    Multi-Sev Forum Overlooker

    Video was funny, and well-done (I like the song)... but yeah, I agree with what perrush said. Rangers and SWs run like the wind, all the time, so then you complain when a DK runs? It's part of the game. The game is pretty well balanced, though many people don't want to admit it when they lose. They want to blame the game, not their own tactical mistakes.

    I noticed that you fell into his pattern of running a wide circle (while he waits for jump to cool down) and jumping over that wall, repeatedly. You could fake like you were going to follow him back there and then dive in front of the wall to catch him with a bird as he lands. Basically, you were chasing him the whole time instead of watching his patterns and anticipating his moves.

    Also, in my opinion, it's a mistake to send wolves out against a DK when exhaustion is active. When Rangers send wolves after a DK during exhaustion, they can do a mighty wild swing (rage is almost always close to full during exhaustion) and heal about half their HP on those three targets. Walking tree-thing would be a better choice. The slowdown from that tree can't be stopped by Dragonhide immunity (stun reversals may work, IDK), and a tree is only one target to use for healing instead of three. If you can't re-spec to tree for PvP, just don't send out wolves when the DK has high rage (they almost always have high rage during exhaustion).

    Just some small pieces of advice. Take them or leave them. You don't need the game to be changed to beat that kind of DK, you just need to change the way you play.
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2014
    Ash likes this.

    ~THE~LEGEND~ Someday Author

    what you keep talking about and keep saying its Balanced is silly after big point give rangers too 4500 armor as WAR and auto hp healing then its balanced , its very normal for us to run cause our hp and armor have been made for that DK can have over 4500 armor and over 9000 hp easy and he was made to TANK rangers and MAGE and we have been made to run and shot and he must catch us he have 3 skills to sleep his enemy on arena and his enemy have 2 skills to wake up himself ..

    Everyone is making this on arena run until time is finished he is just a coward who cant fight . that's the only true thing and its turn the game into boring when they win 3 rounds with running its taking over 15 min nothing fair with that nothing at all . just boring
    XxSkyfàllxX likes this.
  5. perrush

    perrush Active Author

    let me educate you a bit.

    Most DK's don't have 4500 armor, just over 3000 will be the average. Those 9000 HP are a little high too, 8500 seems more like it. That's one.

    Secondly DK's or NOT made to tank rangers and mages. DK's are made to tank large crowds of MOBS. Most mobs come towards you and attack so we can use our mighty wild swing to heal. RA and SW run away from us so our mighty wild swing is almost meaningless. (don't forget a mighty wild swing consumes 60 rage !)

    Then we're left with 2 healing skills : dragon hide (cooldown 1 min, regen 10%) and battle cry (cooldown 30 sec, regen 10%). This means we can heal 30% HP per minute. That's around 3000 HP. Just count how many hits you can land in one minute ... ... then you know why DK's need to run away.

    further, the main problem is rage. When we control mobs, we can not only heal ourselves, but rage is also build up rapidly. Then we can use our most powerful skill/combo, the smash(+ Iron Brow).

    In PvP, rage does't build up properly. Even our battle cry does give us only 40 rage (why do we only get 40 rage, while RA get 100 concentration ??) while a combo of stun + smash needs at least 40 rage. So it's very hard to use a powerful attack in a duel.

    Finally. When DSO introduced HP regeneration in some gear (sargon, ring of life), DK lost their regen advantage. Before that every hit, even small basic attacks, a DK could bring to a RA of SW counted, they could never recover from it. Now RA and SW regen some HP too. A DK needs to do enough dmg/s or the RA/SW will heal itself.

    long story short, DK's don't have the advantage in PvP imho
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2014
    thebearreturns likes this.
  6. Multi-Sev

    Multi-Sev Forum Overlooker

    There is balance, whether one wants to admit it to oneself or not. I beat some rangers regularly, yes, but some can beat me, too. The rangers that anticipate my moves better than I anticipate theirs are the ones that win against me. Same goes for SWs and other DKs. Anticipate and act, not follow and react, and you win - no matter what class you are (except SM, they can only run flags and sometimes beat on a tower in 6v6, they can hardly ever kill anyone :) ). That's why I know there is PvP balance in the game. I see it with my own eyes every day. I play PvP for about 8 hours a day, so I do know of which I speak.

    EDIT: Take the example of the Coyote and the Road Runner. The Coyote is a certified genius, he says so himself. He builds elaborate traps that would make Rube Goldberg ( ) proud. However, he never properly anticipates what the Road Runner will actually do. That is his downfall: he never catches the Road Runner because of this. He is very intelligent, but he is not very clever. Winning requires both of these attributes.
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2014
    _Baragain_ likes this.
  7. NightWalker

    NightWalker Board Analyst

    Then you haven't seen my SM :D (or anyone better)
  8. Multi-Sev

    Multi-Sev Forum Overlooker

    That may be so. On Agathon, the SMs are only good for running flags. The speed of the SM C-14 mini-missile is a joke, IMO. It is only good against opponents who are caught sleeping and PvE mobs ;)

    Agreed. The OP either doesn't know what most DK's have, or inflated the numbers to try to make a point. 4500/9000 would only be reachable by a P2W DK with 3xKeen/3xDark. The average DK with that setup would have around 3700/8000. In order to get more HP, they'd have to go with Sargon's or Witch (possibly with Wolf stuff mixed in). They would sacrifice a lot of armor and some crit chance for those HP though.

    Yes, DKs can easily tank large groups of mobiles. They cannot "tank" a ranger or a sw. We must dodge, jump and charge away - and pick our time to strike - because there is usually no way for us to reliably and/or quickly heal the large critical hits that a good sw or ranger can quickly deliver. (One exception is when a ranger gives me three wolves to heal on, and we are in exhaustion, so my rage is not a problem.)

    The main issue that many players fail to realize is that their style of play is not conducive to winning in PvP. Then they blame the game, because it couldn't possibly be their tactics, could it? o_O

    The only thing worse than chasing behind a running DK during exhaustion would be to stand still. If you don't anticipate where the DK will run, and jump next to him with a bird-stun, you have already lost the match.
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2014
  9. NightWalker

    NightWalker Board Analyst

    They gotta learn to use C14 like an iron brow. 1h + shield, C14 huge explosion range, explode the second right after firing if target is close. Then they need enough attack speed to fire a heavy shot before the opponent can debuff. C14+ Heavyshot dmg way higher than Iron brow+ smash combo.
  10. Multi-Sev

    Multi-Sev Forum Overlooker

    Agreed. It's the same with rangers that use bird from long range (most of them, but not the good ones). I'm not going to hang around and wait for the bird to arrive. Same with c-14 mini-missile. Unless it's fired right on top of me, I'm not going to be there when it explodes. A jump or stun charge will extricate me from the area. The SMs I have fought all seem to be afraid to get too close, so they inevitably fail to hit with the missile.

    The risk the SM takes getting close enough to me to use the missile effectively is that he may get iron-brow'd before he can fire the missile. The damage may be less, as you say (I don't know the specific percentages off-hand), but that is inconsequential if I crit (50% chance) for 4K-5K damage on the smash. Combined with the damage from the iron brow, it's enough to kill most SMs. If not, a simple angry strike or two will usually finish the job. It comes down to surprise, and who lands their stun/armor break first.

    Edit: but I feel this is drifting off-topic, so it's the last I will say about the side-topic.
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2014
  11. NightWalker

    NightWalker Board Analyst

    At the main topic, this DKs running around seriously has to be fixed. I believe I mentioned on another thread 2 DKs just avoiding each other and endgame DKs never get exhausted to death. Just unbelievable when 3v3 goes up to 30 minutes from draws. Regen should just be cancelled during exhaustion (for SMs as well to be fair) so that DKs can get their hp back to full health before exhaustion but has to take the same consequence of exhaustion as every other class.
  12. -DeathsRevenge-

    -DeathsRevenge- Advanced

    Well I do get your point and this is properly one of the many reasons why so many losers choose to buff themselves up or take potions (You use buff as I can see).

    Then again.. When you reach end-game with your ranger, there is nothing to complain about. This game is well balanced? Nah. Tell me this game is well balanced when you get hit 8.2k by 1 shot from a end-game ranger, when your a DK with over 4k+ defense.

    Before you made this video though and decided to complain, did you reconsider that he might get 1 shotted by you if you had the chance?
    + Did you also consider that if he attacked, you would be the one running?

    You complain without reconsidering how strong your class (rangers) really are. Maybe not right now, but later on.
    thebearreturns likes this.
  13. perrush

    perrush Active Author

    If regen from skills should be cancelled, the same skill of the other classes should be cancelled also. I'm not sure where we go then, but it would be an option take take away every X sec a skill or a fame tree level.
    thebearreturns likes this.
  14. -Elizejs-

    -Elizejs- Junior Expert

    Wery nice and funny video:)
  15. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    I would say that all PvP Tree Skills should be suppressed when exhaustion starts. No one gets 40% extra damage or 40% less damage taken, No one has stun debuffs, no one has 20% extra running speed... it would be as if it were two Candidates fighting in the arena just with really nice stats. Leave alone all of the normal skills, but make it a fight based on skill once exhaustion kicks in.
    thebearreturns likes this.
  16. NightWalker

    NightWalker Board Analyst

    Yes, any regen from for example wolves of ranger talent or Steam's steam conductor will also be cancelled. Basically any healing should be cancelled. This will not apply to other class's skill tree which forces a DK to actually attack rather than just plainly run. I play a DK myself and it seriously feels stupid exhausting marshals to death just because of the regen.

    Edit: To be honest I myself do not mind if you want to take away all class's level 45 exp tree talent. My SM's level 45 talent is nearly useless. I don't need thicket's talent in 3v3 for my ranger. My DK just exhausts everyone to death or draws with another DK (really really stupid). My SW will lose mind control's 0 CD sadly :\ but totally pays off so I don't fight "forever" battles.

    That will not work as a DK would keep running anyways. They still have the level 45 exp tree talent that works way too much in their favor for exhaustion.
  17. Mal3ficent

    Mal3ficent Guest

    @spartawars Before you continue posting at this forum, I suggest you to read these two threads thoroughly.
    spartawars likes this.
  18. mr.trouble..

    mr.trouble.. Forum Greenhorn

    i think war have to big a favor in pvp whit there regen im amage i dont have regen so i will lose all time if a war run a war also have 3 ways to get from 1 place to another a mage have 1 so hard to chatc a war so must agrre whit legend
  19. giangiomax

    giangiomax Someday Author is not the only one.... :)
    PS: if ranger/mage is good enough....victory is not a prob.
  20. moby31

    moby31 Regular

    5ooka is a good runner :D:D:D
    i can see what other players write sometimes about 5...
    "oh no it's him again " "don't have time to run after him " etc
    many of us run a lot ;)
    sometimes we just don't have choice ,i'm ok with this as long as they don't run waiting for exhaustion then use pots to win the battle .
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