Dks and their woes in 2019 and a set that will fix it for them

Discussion in 'General Forum' started by Phyrix, Sep 12, 2019.

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  1. heror

    heror Forum Baron

    Let me ask u 2 thinkg first. Why do u keep reotating around ur arguments ?
    I told you abuse BiS items then cry : what did u tell me ? "Im speaking for q7 Dks . So you were actually lying the whole time and YOU wanted a q4 buff pretending it was for q7 ............... Be honest from the start, then we can work from there.

    Second there is "top" mages. Ima ask you smt which i already know the answer of....... how many q4 users on sw do you know that are "top" ....let me tell you . either 1 or 0. you saying that sw use any set effectively is a meme at this point. If q4 was the hot thing , why are only noobs / and me/ using ? We are both in the same pit but you are trying to throw dirt at me and pretend u are weaker

    Wait ,wait wait , are u actually memeing ? 2/2 karabossa ? hmmmm on q7????? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

    Which u cant use since u use q1 torso , zeal , so gg karabossa cant be neither 3/3 nor 2/3 and 2 mortis rings lmao......when u need dragan ring in 1/2 slots hmmm i see some next tier shenanigans here.

    you cant say this and then when u loose the argument say this
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  2. Phyrix

    Phyrix Count Count

    thats 4x
    only its not 5x 20 and 5x 10 <- heck thats only 5x 8%
    adding 16% from there is easily compensatable but for the heck of it, it even excludes 47% gloves or 43 or 44 or how many ever it is youre willing to craft into gloves
    I dont care about q4 that much
    What I want in dso is this:
    and this
    It was Rak that proposed a q7 boost and I doubt I will see the set above in game so if they then do boost q7 might aswell boost q4 for dks
    Thus therefore no ulterior motives was intended
    And the set in this picture
    wow just wow
    did some calcs earlier <- yes me
    but based on whats said here:
    mm is a 15 frame skill
    so the set up there would make smash a 15 frame skill
    which would be 5 smashes a second
    now the buff lasting 10 seconds or as long as you keep it up
    during banner a dk can do 50 smashes at 290% base
    5 smashes a second at 290% base = 1450% base per second
    50 smashes in 10 seconds would = 14500% base in 10 seconds
    but here comes the awesome part
    since the set actually affects the frames of skills rage attack would be a 11 frame skill
    so at 6 rage attacks per second I could achieve banner once again 10 seconds after having done banner and 14500% base and just do that again
    another awesome part is that I can refresh dragon hide within 10 seconds from banner hide smash combo too <- that even excludes cdr runes
    and this is what i want in dso
    doing 125% base per hit with this set on maps and 1450% base at boss with this set and awesome cooldown times too
    and I can go at maps with any skill I like and it would be a good performer
    nope, not only did I not lie, I posted this set very very early in this thread but seems to have been skipped by quite a few people
    but if youre still not convinced, maybe look at the title of the thread?
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
  3. kuwabaraz

    kuwabaraz Forum Duke

    Nice video, I'm a little amused, I think they mentioned me as a weak player, without considering the diffusive statistics that were already above average! We postpone the discussion to other sets and if I finish that blessed full platinum weapon!

    However the problem in that map is and will always be the consumption of essences because the cases are not balanced in the damage!
  4. Phyrix

    Phyrix Count Count

    the base of my skills is not nearly as high as that of a mage
    you know it every other dk knows it
    heck even mecs knows it
    heck even santa knows it
  5. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Forum Pro

    Great, now enlighten me how do you want to use karabossa 2/4 and 2 mortis rings while using q7?

    Karabossa is blocked by zeal, dragan helmet and q1 torso (aka 3/4).
    Dragan ring is OBLIGATORY since q7 is using 2h and GLOVES slots.
    At least I can properly sum up numbers together. Logic reasoning? You mean counting 2/4 karra or 2 mortis rings while clearly impossible? Yeah Phy, nicely done and thought out, tell me more ;)
    (for my char)
    Base crit: (ring + ring + cloak + deco * 2,22) x (1 + mchr)
    Base crit: (2000 + 2000 + 4800 + 6500 * 2,22) x (1 + 0,485) = (8800 + 14430) x 1,485 = 34496

    now with 2/2 deco:
    Base crit: (2000 + 2000 + 4800 + 6500 * 1,61) x (1 + 0,485) = (8800 + 10 465) x 1,485 = 28608

    So I'm 200 crit below 80% while having 4 kranparus runes, q9 amulet, 4 blue royals and blue jewel of rage.
    That's with crit cloak, imagine a scenario where BiS SW cloak is the resistance one (since magma is used only as a stat stick).

    Still, as I said before - even if crit damage/crit is possible (since I have it) to reach, you cant reach 3.637 on q7 "easily" aka with t3 runes, golds, etc.
    You wanted to prove reaching 3.637 on q7 is relatively easy and now you talk about 5x20, max plat gloves or jewel of rage :D:D:D

    Also, I'll keep ignoring your set for a multitude of reasons:
    1) It's in your head and only there - it's your imagination. It requires devs to create everything - icons, models, textures, code set bonus, balance it properly.
    2) You ignored every non DK class while designing it - and when it was pointed out you threw a babyrage tantrum and said that "it will affect smash or banner burn [or all skills that are convenient to you] and it won't affect EA or FS explosion cause they aren't part of base skill". This is why I will keep denying it is a valid solution - not because it's inherently bad but because you designed a set for yourself and not to help the game grow/fix balancing issues.
    3) You shove it way too much into others' faces - this is either 4th or 5th time you repost it, not because anybody asked or conversation required it but to flex.
    4) My Q7 buff / your Q4 buff is requiring literally almost z-e-r-o work while your creation requires art, dev and qa team attention.
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
  6. Phyrix

    Phyrix Count Count

    q4 2x mortis <- you wield q4 no? <- not even the set only the weapon
    but yes unfortunately with q7 only 1x mortis ring
    was saying it is not even...
    Also like I said before, q1 torso is only a meme since you mages all advocate that it is relatively easy to use potions
    btw ahem Rak <- I just proved that the set I made is superior to q7 :D
    but you last time proved that its not <- must suck knowing that ive beaten you at your own maths games
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
  7. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Forum Pro

    And on q4 you cant use zeal : pepega : - get a grip man.
    You're a meme - mana is the most valuable stat on SW.
    Pots sure are easy to click but they scale with mana as well.

    SW (unlike any other class) don't have a skill that makes their abilities free - if using 834780374 pots per one boss fight is fine for you then sure but send me your gold.

    DKs - banner
    RAs - q7 and net resets
    SM - q7 and not even steam reliant that much
    SW - ??

    I said it would be completely broken for SW and RA while mediocre for DK and SM.

    If you change rules of the game no wonder stuff change "skill damage" applies to turrets as well making them deal 25% more damage so you just gave SM about 1000% more true damage per second. SW and RA to a lesser extent but still broken for them nonetheless.

    Also, this set's 1450% DPS while you'd deal 2016% DPS on q7 right now.

    I still stand by my word that it would be comparable enough to q7 that q7 users (which is a huge majority) would entirely ignore it.
  8. Phyrix

    Phyrix Count Count

    you stated that you use weapon only...
    btw regarding this and our last argument
    since the explosion is not seperate since you stated bleed is an ailment
    it would then not be possible for the dev team to creat a unique that increases the explosion damage of for example fs alone?
    because I am pretty sure they can
    anyways yes you were right, but the question is how you calculated the damage of fs
    but for the sake of argument lets quickly see from my perspective what fs damage will be
    because you just throw numbers
    75% base and 400% base explosions 475% base x5 per second = 2375% base per second iow = to mecs
    how did I get 400% base explosions and not a total of 610% like you did?
    Well its very simple
    The set works like q4 in increased base damage of a skill
    now your base explosion is 200%+25% which = 250% + 150 = 400 plus the 75% base ofc which total 475% <- fyi that is how q4 has 290% smash damage and not 300%
    so I just debunked your 610%
    So I dont quite know how you do maths xD
    In essence i am very lazy and I dont like doing maths
    no they dont lets do what you do
    240*1.3*17/3 = 1768%
    but that only has 3 seconds uptime <- because of this q7 can never reach 50 smashes in 10 seconds
    and then either work on getting it again or something
    see a q7 dk is firstly unable to maintain that because they permanently have to switch between that and ra and gb
    whereas the set I produced has much more smash damage within the space of 10 seconds than q7, while at that it provides better cooldown even without a mec, which in turn allows for more smashes once again
    so now I did 2 things
    1 Proved your maths wrong twice
    2 I made my set valid
    *btw yeah that q4 boost and q7 boost would be nice
    Another btw:
    You say this will overcreep mecs but I highly doubt that
    Main reason being that heavyshot will have a cooldown
    of all the skills in dso heavyshot is the one that is a 33 frame skill <- with a cooldown iow mecs need q7 and that is a big difference in gameplay with my set vs traditional q7 wielding mecs
    basically their turrets will be hugely affected but their q7 killer will not be anymore
    Noted @DBS-Flamelurker

    A different btw: I just cheked top end dk with my set doing 450k smashes at 50 smashes in 10 seconds = 22.5 00 000 damage in 10 seconds
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
  9. heror

    heror Forum Baron

    q4 weapon is weak on its own , it just has q7 dmg , nothing else. 17% ls dmg is <q7<bm speed. so ye, you are anchored with belt too, aka loosing zeal, also u cant use 4/4 kara this way, nor 3/3 kara cuz u need q1 torso. And with if i dont use q1 torso ill have 190 mana which is a meme since ls consts 50 mana and has 0 mana return. And if i need a pot every 1.2 secs , then idk ill spend about 150-200 mana per boss ........which is exactly the gold im making from the q run....which leaves no gold for hp pots , nor crafting,,,,,,,,ye no q1 sw is definitely viable ( obv sarcasm)

    2) Devs can make a set about explosion but it will be class favouritism which is WRONG, sw and ra dont deserve speacial love for no reason , so does Dk= making 1 set sprecifically for him. And still it will be a meme because --> you want dk to have options while trying to make a new q7 set aka a new BiS item. so you dont fix anything m you just repeat the wheel of BiS again.
  10. Phyrix

    Phyrix Count Count

    But I just showed its not a dk only item and 475% base per hit is not that bad for sw actually
    I also debunked the 610% base per hit myth <- if it was 610% per hit it would be too strong for sw
    Anyways I did state the q4 and q7 ideas is not that bad for dks.
    Added about the explosions
    It does not just need to be stronger so to speak
    Imagine the cloak from sigris increasing the explosion size by 25-50% (area of effect) frozen enemies now take 10% more damage from frozen sphere
    while it does that for mages it could make EA into a FS xD that still does armor break for rangers
    "explosive arrow explosions become a frozen explosion slowing enemy attack and travel speed by 25%"
    For mecs it could turn hs into a frost cannon <- nice combo to mecs with q8/q7
    for dks it could make smash give foes a frozen debuff much like the ice missile for mages but while giving that effect also increases smash damage by 10% example "turns smash into a frost smash slowing enemy attack and travel speed by 25% frozen enemies take 10% more damage from smash"
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
  11. DBS-Flamelurker

    DBS-Flamelurker Exceptional Talent

    @Phyrix :

    I'm sorry, but I don't think your set will solve dk problems.

    The set you created is better than Q4, but not Q7. Q7 is better with active buff.
    You can easily get 8 seconds on earthquake. This means you can easily activate buff with Q7.

    Once finished buff, earthquake has 5 seconds. You only need 2 seconds to get buff again.

    Your set does not solve DK problems, it just adds another option.
  12. Phyrix

    Phyrix Count Count

    but you know as well as I do, 2 seconds = 10 smashes
    thats 10 smashes lost in kill time
  13. kuwabaraz

    kuwabaraz Forum Duke

    I don't really like the idea of increasing unique shops that have been created for such reasons.

    One of the causes because rangers, wizards and dwarves are stronger at this time, they have to look at sets q1 and q8 and a couple of ablities.

    If you just want to solve the problem of the only ones and solve it all!
  14. heror

    heror Forum Baron

    This is why in the discord the idea to buff q7 was mostly accepted , cuz it takes the strongest dk set and puts him online , and since 3/4 classes are q7 calsses i dont see a problem in waht Rakshasa suggested or the othething can be making q7 permanent so it can compete. atm the dk problem is having downtime which he needs to recharge banner and banner is used to hav free smashes , so maybe if we make smash return rage or Dks start using rage pots to have perma q7?
  15. Phyrix

    Phyrix Count Count

    its not quite that simple
    smash does not give any cdr
    btw if I had to choose between quitting dso and using q7 which do you think I will opt for?
    Which is also why I made that q4 added proposal
    After which you accused me of wanting only a q4 buff and in the same breath told me I was lying
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
  16. kuwabaraz

    kuwabaraz Forum Duke

    Increasing the strength of the set q7 I think is one of the worst choices for the class and probably would do nothing but increase the problems!

    Q7 for the rangers it is an example and the thing is not really exciting!
  17. Phyrix

    Phyrix Count Count

    Agreed, although my fix for q4 brings it closer to what q7 is now, however that boost for q7 just breaks it even more
    Which is why I suggested my set to be implemented xD
  18. kuwabaraz

    kuwabaraz Forum Duke

    Ok, my idea and what to fix first, I set Dk which are definitely inferior to the other classes. This creates a huge imbalance!

    Thanks to the calculations made by Gbit and all those who wanted to verify the mystery, we understand that the greater difference of q7 and that + 50% of attack speed on q4.

    Even using sets that increase the attack speed for q4 the other party will use set to increase the damage and from here no q7 comes out, wins on the bosses alone, a little less on the map and in a group because the skills change, there are the class bonuses especially that of the rangers!

    If you want to improve it you can ask for a moderate increase on the q4 buff but it won't be very high, just because you have to think about group skills too. So on your own there will always be a bit of difference and not in a group!
  19. Phyrix

    Phyrix Count Count

    it is 50% smash speed I explained to gbit last night
    Q7 makes smash a 10 frame skill <- where smash is a 20 frame skill on 2.82 smash does 5 smashes a second on q7 however that set of mine has same dmg as q4 but on all skills including fotd and on rage attack but it brings down the frames of all skills by 25% making smash a 15 frame skill in other words smash can be done 5 smashes a second on 3.334 attack speed with that set I proposed while it maintains 290% smash damage like q4 but for 10 seconds
    also rage attack becomes an 11 frame skill and rageful swing becomes an 11 frame skill too
    also if you look at the q4 set I proposed that it displays that q4 boosts rageful swing like it does now
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
    kuwabaraz likes this.
  20. DBS-Flamelurker

    DBS-Flamelurker Exceptional Talent

    Ok, your set is good, better than Q7.

    But how much better is it than Q7? From my point of view, not enough to solve the dk's problems.
    Again, a new set must be made and must be done for all classes. This is a lot of work, compared to other options.
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019