Doubt with shield

Discussion in 'Rangers' started by Shiro, Aug 2, 2018.

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  1. Shiro

    Shiro Padavan

    So, I'm planning on crafting a 2hand bow with at least 300% IDotI and a 52% crit rate helm to end farming build.
    About bow, I'm long from making it since drops are so bad, at least for me. About helmet, I got 2x 40% crit rate legends (3/4 gold), so I just need little more luck for the final craft.
    With that I should reach 78% crit rate on inf2 and around 25-26k dmg, wich is fine for me.

    So, my main goal is to make a good 1H build, obv taking into account my gems and runes, bonuses on uniques will not be the best. I mean, like making 3x speed 1x hp on item boots, and things like that.

    As of now, I have a doubt about what enchantments to craft on the final shield since I still have a legend one with lv50 bonuses (0.437 BS, 462 armor, 57.779% and 43.269% "increased block rate").
    I made some rough calculations and I found out that with a shield and dragan pauldrons t6 lv60, only by having the 57.779% and 2 gold bonus of block rate from shoulders, I should reach around 14k block rate...
    I mean, t6 shield has 3.9k block rate, glyphed to lv60 it should have at least 4.5k, while dragan pauldrons around 2.5k, so adding around 98% block rate, it should be as said: 14k block rate.

    Then the thing is, where do I take the remaining ~12% block rate to reach 80%?
    If from a "increased block rate on this item" then I'll have something more than needed (and 1 less Block Strenght bonus, or %hp than planned), wich means maybe removing one from shoulders.

    What do u think? Is it too much trouble to use that shield as 2nd slot on workbench or is it a good option?
     
  2. thouvou000

    thouvou000 Forum Expert

    Throw this shield away, its crap. Try to make a shield with 1xblock on the shield and 3x%hp along with 2x increased block rate from dragans pauldrons. Now, even with this you will have around 14.6-15k block, so you will definetely need dragans cloak as well, because it gives 10% increased block rate + the 0.25 increased strength from the set, so you dont need only the pauldrons, you need the cloak too. My advice is that you need a shield with only 1x block+3x%hp or 1xblock+2xhp+1xblock strength. If you really think that its that necessary to build a 1h build that early, i will tell you that even if you have shield you will probably be smashed in pvp because only having 80% block is not enough to make you win there. If you ask me you are not ready to take pvp seriously yet. Have patience, craft better items for pve and then when you will be able to farm fast in high difficulties, you will find more gold lines and you will finally make a good 1 build
     
  3. Dharles

    Dharles Forum Apprentice

    there is diminishing with %increase hp,,
    the bigger the %increase hp,the smaller will go to your hp,,
    i suggest to find 6 inc block strength on single stat or just using that 4 inc block strength on shield and
    mix with 3 inc block rate or with 2 increase block rate and 1 %inc hp,,but the other 3 should be at gold stat...
     
  4. thouvou000

    thouvou000 Forum Expert

    Do you even know what you are saying? Dude, what you are saying there makes no sense, what i told the guy is what most top players use in pvp and you come here and tell him what? something ihave seen noone build. Block strength without hp? useless. no block rate on shield? gl getting max block without block on shield.6 block stregth on single stat? whats the supposed to mean?Also what in the world do your first 2 sentences mean? Hp is the most needed stat in pvp. My god man. If you are not above average in pvp please refrain from giving tips to players. Please
     
  5. Dharles

    Dharles Forum Apprentice

    assume he use full 4x inc hp on amulet and 4x inc hp on ring then the inc hp on shield gotta obsolete..

    thats already nice combination with 3x or 4x block rate with dragan pauldron and dragan cape,,i mean the 1xbs 3xbr or 1xbs 2xbr 1xhp on shield im talking about shield,,btw hp must done with gem,and amulet and ring
     
  6. thouvou000

    thouvou000 Forum Expert

    hp on amulet? Nobody uses that expect for dks and only when tanking. Also he never said he will use hp on amulet. 4x hp on ring yet but only if he has the cube set ring, dragans ring needs critical dmg on it. No other stats on pauldrons except block rate is bad, then he will not have no %armor or % resistances, which is a nice boost. Of course to gain more hp you need gems but who told you that amulet is needed for hp in 1h build?
    Ok, now listen son, you and the guy that created this thread. Im a ranger myself and not only me but other top pvp rangers choose 1 of the top 2 pvp builds. The best 1h build that i myself use is the combination of 5/5 cube set, dragan 3/3, bears belt,spider cape and pauldrons,sigris armor for the -5s for adrenaline, which is so strong in pvp and Heredurs helmet for the block strength.As for the enchantments on this set: Crit dmg on amulet,crit dmg on dragans ring and full hp on agathons ring,4xincreased dmg or 3x incresed dmg and 1x more res on belt,full crit rate arrows ofc, full dmg bow,full dmg helm if you can have max critical without the crit from helmet,full dmg torso,full attack speed gloves or if he wants 3xspeed 1xhp, full move speed boots, pauldrons 2x block 2x armor or resist and lastly 3xhp+1xblock or 2xhp+1xblock+1xblock strenth on the shield.
    As for the 2nd build the players go for: Basically they change the cube bow with gnobs bow and the shield from cube set with heredur shield. However,the enchantments they use are the same as on the first build i mentioned. Like i said above as well, if you ask a really good pvp player he will most likely tell you what i said, not because i said it but because its the best with facts
     
  7. ULTRAPEINLICH

    ULTRAPEINLICH Forum Duke

    This is false information. There is no diminishing return on hp. But there might be better trade offs to increase your ehp.

    To answer @Shiro 's question, I made a whole topic about ranger 1v1 builds and the different approaches/stats that are achieveable/enchantments you need/general ranger/pvp knowledge most ppl dont know in the german ranger-subforum. I dont know how well google translate works, you might wanna give it a shot. Im afraid i dont have the time right now to translate everything here ^^

    here a few facts you should always take into consideration when building a 1h pvp setup:
    • old block rate on shields (or those on nowaday's shoulders) and new block rate on shields work as seperate multipliers. You can achieve 80% block with just 1 t6 shield with 1/2 or 2/1 golden old/new block rate on it (4500 * 1.65 * 2.2)
    • always try to maximize your armor/res by shoulders. the less block rate you have to cast onto shoulders the better. One reason being of course because its simply the best source to get defense from and the other one being the way armor/res shredding works: The formula that breaks your armor/res is based off your base armor, not the value that is increased by increased % armor / %res (unlike icreased armor on this item which is going to increase your base armor). So, the higher your %increased armor/res value, the less you are affected by armor shredding.
    • With dragan shoulders you can either go for 2x block rate on this item on shield 1x on shoulders or vice verca to get to 80%.
    • Depending on your build (standard cubeset with dragan ring and q3 helmet / standard cubeset without ring / gwenfara, q8, q3 / gnob q8, q3 / some sort of conc reduction build) you either wanna go for at least 1x block reduction /2/1 or 2/2 on shield or 2x block reduction on ring and 3x hp/1x block rate on shield
    Lemme know what kind of build / items you wanna use and we can dive deeper into what you should aim for :)

    and again you are wrong.
    people are still in pre209 thinking, where the %hp bonus from wisdom greatly contributed to hp% and runes on ring. This bonus has disappeared with the removal of wisdom for pvp and thus rendering rings and strong runes on rings much weaker than they used to be. %hp on shield has become much stronger now to compensate the loss of wisdom hp, while block reduction on rings became more interesting.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
    _Baragain_ likes this.
  8. deliburan78

    deliburan78 Advanced

    Why not 4/5 cube set + 2/2 q3 ? Why not 3/5 cube set + 2/2 q3 + another bow - gnob , wolf , gwenfara ? Why not amulet with x4 HP craft ? Or ring with x4 hp? Why not 3/3 yachak set with 2/2 hp/ speed crafted boots & gloves ? Why not 2/2 or 3/1 hp/dmg crafted helmet? Agaton ring with hp craft - LOL !
     
  9. Shiro

    Shiro Padavan

    The thing is that I wanted to reach 80% block rate with less bonuses possible, so that I could improve armor, hp etc that otherwise would be lower due to inferior tiers on runes.
    Also, my point isn't winning, just need something to keep me occupied...

    You are right about making things at good peace, but idk... atm I just need helmet and bow (torso too, but i don't really care) for farming build. Maybe increase some tiers, make royals from sacred and the few perfect left (1 onyx, 3 ruby and 3 cyanites on torso). Other than this, it becomes a tedious and redundant farm to get that missing 4% on each item and honestly I'm not really into it. As said, 25k dmg and 75% crit on inf2 is fine for me, mostly because farming the same maps over and over again seems like suicide.

    Hmm ok, well if ever I'll make a good shield, I'll keep the old one as a memory :D

    I'm quite sure the %hp bonus isn't working like that o_O

    Sort of what I imagined, but you suggest the %hp on item bonus is better to put it on gloves? I mean, since I use ranger, I think maybe movement speed is not that big of a problem, having adrenaline every 9-10 sec (with sigri torso)

    Np, I'm not forcing anyone anyway ;)
    Yeah, but I think that then the problem will be HP, even tho, maybe the effective hp would be higher the way you're saying, since I would have higher resist or armor, wich means less dmg inflicted by others... Like it was before R209 with block strenght and %hp with shields, I guess.
    This means that using the old line (57.779% increased block rate) with 2 new block rate bonuses, I can get to 80% without dragan shoulders, so that using them needs another set of bonuses? :confused:
    About 2x block strenght on ring, is it better to have them on the same ring or 1 for each? I was planning on making a 4x %hp on item cube ring, changing 2 of them to block strenght would reduce a lot hp, specially if combined with the shield told before...

    At first I thought this:
    • Q3, Q8 and Dragan (gloves, boots and ring) sets, Gnob's bow, Black Widow's pauldrons, Cloack of Heroes, Q9 amulet, Q4 belt and Cubes ring.
    Then I thought about drakens cost and changed my mind to:
    • Q3, Q8 and Dragan (gloves, boots and ring) sets, Predator, Black Widow's pauldrons, Cloack of Heroes, Q9 amulet, Q4 belt and Cubes ring.
    All calculating the most efficient way to get 80% block rate, in order to have more room to correct imperfections due by runes. Then I realized I forgot to take into account that %hp from wisdom wouldn't work in PvP :D So I changed my mind to:
    • Dragan (gloves, boots and ring), Black Widow (pauldrons and cloack) and Cube sets, Q3 helmet and Q4 belt.

    The thing is, I don't really like Cube set, mostly because the bow is good just for taking the 5/5 set bonus and because of that I would prefere Gnob's or Predator (wich is even cool looking :D).
    But taking into account my character (hp and resist wise), I'd say mainstream build with Cube set is what I should go for.

    Anyway, thanks for answers
     
  10. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    That cloak is not an option in any combination.
    You need Karabossa's cloak.
     
  11. ULTRAPEINLICH

    ULTRAPEINLICH Forum Duke

    Yes, because, as i said, they work as seperate multipliers.
    Lets take my own shield as an example to explain it:
    [​IMG]
    With this shield alone, on lvl 60, without any other block bonus and without dragan shoulders i reach 80% Block for pvp.

    It always depends. If you dont have at least 2x hp enchantments on shield, hp on ring will have a rather low impact. But with hp on shield you will also have to get your block reduction from somewhere, preferably from a ring. You can either go
    - 1/2/1 shield (block rate, hp, block reduction), 4x hp ring
    - or 1/3 shield (block rate, hp), 2/2 ring (block redcution, hp or critdmg
    You should try to reach at least /3 block reduction. q3 set and dragan spider+cape help alot with that.
    I myself ditched the idea trying to get as much hp as possible from rings, because you sacrifice so much critdmg and block reduction for that. At the end it comes down to what kind of runes and gems you have and what max stats you could achieve. I suggest you make an excel sheet or try any dso optimizer out there to check what kind of builds render which stats.

    The most popular build nowadays surely is the one you mentioned last; q3 helmet, q4 belt, cube set, black widow set, black widow.
    In terms of balanced stats its the best setup you can go for.
    - helmet full dmg or 3/1 depending on your onyxes and wether 3/1 or 4/0 adornment
    - torso full dmg or 3/1
    - shoulders 1 or 2 blockrate depending on your shield and armor/res stats
    - gloves 4x speed
    - shield: any combo of block reduction, block rate, hp. Note: in a full cubeset i dont recommend going for a 1/3block/hp shield, as you lack the block reduction of 2x q3 set.
    - bow: 4xidoti
    - boots, 4x speed
    - dragan ring, 4x critdmg
    - cubering hp/critdmg, any combination you like, or 1x block reduction if you dont reach /3
    - adornment 4/0 or 3/1 depending on your onyxes /helm
    - belt 4x dmg
    - amulet 2/2 / 4/0 / 3/1, depending on how much critdmg you wanna reach and how your rings and critdmg runes are

    The next popular build is;
    dragan gloves+ring+boots, full q3, black widow shoulders/cloak, full q8, q4 or belt of zeal, gnob bow, q9 amu or cube amu, cube ring
    Items with the same values above except for ring, shield, shoulders.
    I would strongly suggest here to go for a 2/2 ring (block reduction, hp), 3xhp/1xblock rate shield, 2xblock on shoulders.
    With that, you can compensate the hp you lose against cubeset. I myself wanna build such a shield and shoulders, but i hardly play anymore and am a lazy farmer anyway :D
    Gnob bow is only recommended if you like and can handle that playstyle. Blade dance is far more difficult to handle properly than most people think, because its a very clunky, slow skill and with many bugs sadly.

    In anyway, dont use predator in any setup, its garbage.
    - 20% reductionof a longbow is FAR stronger than +20%bonus by predator, so for this argument longbows would always be better
    - if you wanna go for shortbow, gwenfara has a much higher dmg, worth more than those +20% and that little extra speed. You should be able to reach 2.00 speed anyway

    Conclusion: If you want a solid 1h pvp build and dont have a lot of draken to spend and access to perfect runes/gems, you should go for the standard cubeset build, which will give you a great build for relatively low costs and easy to build.
     
    Shiro likes this.
  12. Shiro

    Shiro Padavan

    I thought it could be an option to recover the 9.x % dmg I loose on the helmet to put a % crit rate one...

    I was thinking about:
    • 3 dmg 1 crit rate helmet,
    • 3 dmg 1 armor (or armor on item, depending wich is better... But I guess %armor) torso,
    • 4 speed or 3 speed 1 hp on item gloves,
    • 4 dmg on item bow,
    • 3 speed 1 hp on item or 4 speed boots
    • About dragan ring, I crafted already one with 51% crit dmg and 30% hp on item (pinkt to legend)... Should I craft a better one? Quite sure the answere will be "yes" :D
    • 4 hp on item or 2 hp on item and 2 crti dmg,
    • 4 crit rate arrows,
    • 4 dmg or 3 dmg and 1 resist belt
    • 2/2 amulet
    As said before, I don't know what kind of bonus make into the shield and so on shoulders too...
    As for what I understood, I should make one like this:
    [​IMG]
    but with a %hp line instead of the 0.15 block strenght..?
    If yes, I'm half way to make it :D
    As for what I calculated, I should put 2 block rate on shoulders with this combo.
    Instead with one old line replacing a new block rate one, I would need only one bonus on shoulders, so one resist or amor more...

    I think I should stick to the second option (shield: 1x %increased block rate, 1x %increased block rate on this item, 1x block strenght and 1x %hp).

    This looks like much trouble, specially since many items I'm crafting are based on cube set :oops:

    Idk, even back on lv45 I used blade dance, but just to escape, using it to deal dmg would be hard at first, also, I'd rather use drakens for HP runes.

    I had like 23 scrolls to castle, now I only have 1. I did kill Gwenfara on Inf1 all thise runs, never got a unique :(

    Now I only need to find a better shield and bow, since the onea I have are t3 and not even with gold stats... oh and do the craftings
     
  13. Dharles

    Dharles Forum Apprentice

    im forget the 0, on block strength on single stat (cant find this item anymore),sorry,,
    they right about block rate on pauldron.. i think pauldron must use resist,, im thinking 1x armor + 1xblock rate + 2xresist on dragan pauldron is better,or 2xarmor + 2xres,,
    then the shield with 2xblock rate then gylph the dragan pauldron and shield to 60 would be enough to 80%
     
  14. deliburan78

    deliburan78 Advanced

    You`r wrong , with good shield ( t6 +gold block base) + good craft x3 block min 3x50% block increasing +gliphs and dragan pauldrons base block stats you don`t need anymore block magic in pauldrons, trust me.:cool:
     
  15. Dharles

    Dharles Forum Apprentice

    yeah i know that,,, i have it (3x50%block rate off hand and gold blockrate base stat dragan t6 pauldron).

    I also have 3,3x gold (blockrate )crafted with dragan t6,, also 4xinc gold (armor) on leg,,
    Currently im want to craft pauldron with 2x armor + 2xresist or (3xresist+1xarmor/4x res/3xarmor+1xres),, whatever will make with next craft
     

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