Feedback Drop Rates Have Lowered Substantially

Discussion in 'General Archive' started by Ba_dum_tss, Jan 3, 2015.

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  1. Rhysingstar

    Rhysingstar Forum Ambassador

    Interesting, I would love to hear why you don't believe that. Do you believe that they have worked to actively reduce grinding? It would also be nice to know where you are in the game.

    Obviously anything under level 35 is a breeze to get through with little grinding. Now if you have done or doing the Ammon quests or the cloak of power quest, and still feel that DSO isn't forcing the mind numbing grind onto players until they want to quit, I would love to know why, because honestly I'm wondering every single day why I bother to log in.

    I tell myself (or lie to myself) that DSO will make some positive changes, so I stay, but in my limited time (10 months) that has not been the case.
     
    Drifty44 likes this.
  2. Drifty44

    Drifty44 Forum Apprentice

    To: Rhysingstar... Gotta love your recent post... You express my feelings just about exactly as yours... And, yes, I find that I do lie to myself... for the same reasons I buy a lottery ticket....​
     
  3. Knightofyourlife

    Knightofyourlife Someday Author

    I came back after about a 2 year break at xmas.
    I was playing when SW had 1000's of mana and blue orbs dropped as well as health. SW was fixed then re-broken then fixed again etc. my first inventory pain was just mana pot, row after row and all SW's where alcoholics, I think the clowns are the old stile SW's always drunk on the pop.
    I had been doing ammon and left just as that started. because I was sick of farming COT. when I left the max lvl was 40.

    This game is now so so much better than it was, that I am quite happy with it at the moment.
    so now I am grinding up my old Toons. so far from lvl 40 to lvl 43 in the last month almost lvl 44 on my ranger. It is funny to me that because I do not agree that DSO are trying to force players to quit with a long grind, you suspect I must be a lower lvl than 35, and if not you would like to know why. Respectfully you deserve an answer.
    Every Diablo II stile Game that I have ever played has had a long grind. In D2 we used the cow's field. At least this game offers some different scenery than the same field and MOB'S over and over again with player hosted games entitled Moooooo, Cow war, COWS, All Cows must Die,

    I do understand that people get sick of any game, the break has helped me see the new changes in a positive light. If you have been playing the same thing over and over again with out a break you will have less tolerance for the grind than others.

    Have fun
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2015
    Rhysingstar and BigPapa like this.
  4. BigPapa

    BigPapa Forum Overlooker

    I appreciate your posts Rhysingstar as you try to express any negatives you feel with logic. The big question to answer on the grind elements of the game is: What is the alternative? The end game quests are long and painful. What would happen if they were short but challenging. Well then you would finish all the quests and have nothing to do but grind GOP. Many of us are in that position now and the only thing out there for us is to try and farm unlikely incremental improvements to our gear and wait for the level cap increase. Most just PVP, farm Khaly or HOD, and help guildies till its time for bed, hoping a new event will offer something cool.

    If you think the grind gets old to finish a hard quest, wait till you have finished all possible quests and the grind offers even less. You may wish you could repeat the Cloak quest:D
     
    Drifty44 likes this.
  5. Rhysingstar

    Rhysingstar Forum Ambassador

    Thank you for your answer Knightofyourlife, it does make sense that after a break the game is a bit different than those who are grinding the same map(s) day after day for little to no reward.

    I've come from the D games and the first impressions were that DSO took the better elements of game and ran with it.

    What I've found is that instead of building a better mousetrap, they built a disposable mousetrap.

    Take a look at the simple math.

    New toons are more likely to have money spent on them. You need gems, gops, health pots, potions, etc. so games (not limited to DSO) make the early to mid levels relatively easy to get through and then allow you to buy your way through the tough spots. Then rinse and repeat.

    Since the end game users need more time and attention, like interesting new gear, new maps, new events and new quests the game dev's simply choose the path of least resistance.

    None seem to understand that the easiest way to keep long term customers is to take care of your base. Every single game (similar to DSO) have the exact same complaints, yet despite this, the game dev's have never figured out how or chosen to solve the issue.

    Now I'm not a dev or programmer and do not play one on the internet, so I can't say how easy it is to implement new maps, new monsters, new quests, or new events.

    If you look at the few early games that are still around, you'll see that they are a shadow of what they once were and have been reduced to allowing players to buy their way through much of the grind.


    For BigPapa,

    The solution to the grind is relatively simple if you have listened to the community as a whole (again not limited to DSO).

    Create new quests to give players a reason to play. One quest that requires weeks or longer to gain access to a lousy reward is a game killer.

    Add new and interesting gear on a somewhat regular basis. All these games are based on finding or building the best possible gear. This isn't a secret, yet game designers seem to be completely clueless to that fact.

    Increase drops. Again this is not a secret in the gaming community. You made a post a while back comparing gaming to casinos, yet where the gamers fail is that they don't offer the same frenzy to play.

    No real gamer wants the big rewards to fall like rain, but do want a real chance.

    Look at the wiki page and the amount of possible uniques, yet ask players how many have ever seen them. Granted they are worthless, but they should be seen at least on occasion.

    Then look at Gnob. How fricken hard can it be to update this part of the game?

    Picture this for a minute:

    Remove all white gear after Kingshill. It serves no purpose in the game.
    Increase the drop rate considerably across the board, including legendary and especially uniques.
    Create new updated gear that gives us a reason to grind.
    Completely update the drops with bosses. The big bosses should never ever drop less than a pink.
    Completely update the drops with event bosses. A nice gem or good gear would go a long ways.
    Revamp the grind for moon events. More specifically the fair wood, but both need to be looked at.
    Add gear to the events. Not junk stuff like a worthless cloak, but something new and exciting.
    Add new quests to the end maps with mini rewards like gems or free crafting for X number of items.

    These changes are not that difficult or should be, but again I am not a dev, so I can't say for sure.

    When it takes weeks or months to complete 1 quest when the reward is junk to begin with, it makes any rational player want to give up.

    So while it logically makes sense to focus on bringing in new players who will play for 3 months, spend some money and move onto the next game, they are missing the long term idea of building a game that players will stick with and spend money on in the long term.

    New gear gives us new options for spending our money. New events with good rewards give us new options. New maps will do that same thing, but most importantly it is the new quests that keep the game fresh.

    However, since the focus seems to be entirely on the lvl 1 -34 player, it makes me believe that DSO wants to make the grind so mind numbing that we are basically forced to quit and start over again so we spend our time and money building a new character.

    Now if anyone would like to explain how increasing drops, increasing quests, creating new gear, maps, and events would not make the grinding more tolerable, I'm all ears...
     
    rpfo, gemon666, GroovieGimp and 2 others like this.
  6. BigPapa

    BigPapa Forum Overlooker

    {finger on nose} well said and appreciated. I think that post is a nice unified list that would be motivation the end game player is looking for. I think the mod's will also see the benefit of this as a single source for their input to the dev's.

    I see seeds for some of items you listed, some new gear, cubes, the increased stats on leg's, more quests but at a lower level, etc. Maybe the elements you listed are at least partially recognized by the dev's just taking much longer to implement than we would like.

    At any rate, well said!
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2015
    Drifty44 likes this.
  7. Rhysingstar

    Rhysingstar Forum Ambassador

    What brought me to this game is the base platform, it has so much potential.

    My first month working my way through the levels had me excited. I thought "finally someone gets it". Then I hit the all too common wall of endless grind...

    I keep hoping that they will prove me wrong and finally build this game into what it could be, but sadly I don't see it going in that direction.

    The switch to gold, the adding of the jesters, the refreshing of the most early maps, all lead me to believe that they are far more interested in finding short term customers than long term customers. No one would be happier than me if I were wrong about this, but their actions speak a whole lot louder than their words.

    In my case I went from being a premium player, playing a couple of hours every single day and spending money to barely being able to find the desire to log on for my daily chest and gem.

    When I do log on, I don't even do the daily quest most of the time, it just isn't worth the effort.
     
    GroovieGimp likes this.
  8. Knightofyourlife

    Knightofyourlife Someday Author

    I think all of this is good.
    I Think DSO are here looking and thinking how to make you stay and how to make you and all the other players happy.

    Why do I say this? because When I was here before I quit the last time,
    The post on the forums where full of complaints, Much like they are now. but the complaints where different. and player action has changed the game. at one time on the posts the common complaints where.

    I hate COT I am leaving because I am sick of it.
    There is nothing to do with my gold what is the point of gold in the game if you only fix you kit with it?

    Most of the players in my old guild stopped playing at the same time as me because of COT and gold there was little point for.
    When I came back COT was gone and now gold is a major need.

    I go through the posts now and I see people saying they do not like the grind for gold and COT was better.
    lol short memories or what!!(Proving a change is as good as a rest)

    They made the changes that people where asking for,
    because they left when the changes where not made.
    So DSO must of changed the game To stop more people from leaving.

    The other thing is that there has been a plethora of changes in the time I have been away and funny thing is that I remember a lot of it Being recommended on the forums. So I can see that they are watching.

    So what I think we can take from that is pro action gets results.
    For ex-sample

    you have recommended
    Completely update the drops with bosses. The big bosses should never ever drop less than a pink.

    Ok then player pro action!! if as many players that want this, stand out side khaly's office asking players not to fight her until she only drops legendary and unique items it will only take a few months of no one killing her until the dev's change it to she only drops legendary and unique items.

    Because I have seen first had that player pro action works.

    Have fun
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2015
  9. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    Quitting because of COT? :D
    You are saying ... DSO team make players happy .... so I can conclude that players are quitting because of happiness. :D

    On topic ... yes the drops are lowered.
     
  10. Rhysingstar

    Rhysingstar Forum Ambassador

    Many of complaints in DSO have been around since the beginning. Yes, they finally took away cots after 3 years of complaining. Kind of hard to exactly give them kudos for taking that long to listen to their players.

    When they finally did remove the cots under the guise of slowing the grind, they added jesters and high prices for crafting essentially taking grinding to a whole new level.

    There are still many common complaints that they have purposely ignored for 3 years and counting, including low drop rates, bad boss drops, mindless grinding, lousy events, lousy rewards, etc.

    Now you admit that you and a lot of others finally had to quit the game because they weren't listening.

    So considering your specific action of quitting for a while, doesn't it seem to fit with my opinion that DSO purposely does not do anything for the long term players, basically forcing them to quit or start new characters?
     
  11. -HARRA81-

    -HARRA81- Forum Mogul

    Lot of P2W players has used a great amount of andermants to buy COT to reveal legendary items, including myself. They had to
    invent new way so that they wouldn't lose this revenue totally. I think the drops have gone up a lot in the paralel bosses and paralel dungeons and presonally I think that's how it should be. PW drops should be better than normal world drops.
    Sell the white items to vendor, they are not useless no wonder some people whining about the prizes of the combining... Are they
    selling the white items ? lol

    Removing the COT serves the old players the most. I have reveal a ton of free legends !
    In that case I have to disgree with you that DSO haven't been doing anything for the old timers :)
    Increased paralel drops, increased boss drops and COT gone! Those are are especially good for old gamers.

    Remember that this is F2P game and it has to maintain it's revenue to run. Keep that in mind.

    Harra Agathon
     
  12. Knightofyourlife

    Knightofyourlife Someday Author

    They have made the changes that people asked for and this is a big game, COT was only one of things that people wanted changed,
    Lag fixed, better server connections, more maps, more items, more events, class re balance its just a mass of changes and tweaks that are still going on, and I have never seen a game supported as much as this one with things added and by far the majority asked for by players, and why has so much changed. because the income of this game is quite large. So they can pay the dev's. I know the paper tigers that pay lots of cash so they can always win can be annoying but they are paying the wages of the people that run the game.
    I could only see this because I moved to other games. and they where all easy to Finnish and bored me by far quicker than this dose.

    Take a break like I did come back in a year or so and you may see the game in a new light like I have.
    I do expect to get flamed now. but I do think its by people that just need to stand back a little. Because I really did feel the same way at one time and now I understand more because time has told.

    A change is as good as a rest.
     
  13. Rhysingstar

    Rhysingstar Forum Ambassador

    So how did this become about paying or not paying????

    Simple logic dictates fresh gear would increase spending. Mind numbing grinding reduces spending. Because the only option for me currently is grinding I have nothing to spend money on, so from a business standpoint they aren't doing so well.

    However, the best advice offered for a cure to the absolute useless grinding is to quit the game at least temporarily, which was exactly my point going into this conversation.
     
  14. Knightofyourlife

    Knightofyourlife Someday Author

    I can understand Why you have said that.
    Why I have said any thing about pay v free. Because first of all Harra81 made a interesting comment about P2W'S having to spend a lot of anderment on COT and I understand what he is saying and in my own view point I think the grind is the alternative to paying, otherwise why would people pay any money at all?
    (I also think the grind is just part of this style of game any way)
    The game needs there cash in order to pay the Dev's to make changes like the ones that you have suggested.
    That is what I am trying to say to you, Your suggestions are good but they will only become a reality in the game with player pro-action.
    I am not telling you to stop playing or take a break. I am saying that has been in the past one type of pro-action that I think has proven to work. a better form of pro-action is to boycott on mass bosses or areas that need change. If the majority of players agree with you and act towards this they will make the changes you and other would like to see. If on the other hand you are part of a small community of player that are unhappy and no one boycotts the bosses and areas that you feel that need changes then no change will take place.
    Pro-action works and the majority makes the rules.
     
  15. -DeathsRevenge-

    -DeathsRevenge- Advanced

    Lies.
     
  16. Knightofyourlife

    Knightofyourlife Someday Author

    Have you any thing more constructive to say than accusing some one of telling Lies.
    Have you ever heard of mirroring?
    The majority of players are happy with the game and do not post much on the forums they are to busy playing the game (That is what the dev's believe).
    When people are unhappy they shout on the forums, This gives a false impression of mass discontent.
    That is why so many complaints on the forums are being ignored because the dev's think it is more likely that they are empty and baseless. It is majority organised pro-action that affects change and nothing else.
    It has been that way ever since the dawn of human social interaction (that means the hole of human history). So far positive changes have only been made in this game with accidental majority pro-action
    IE people leaving on mass because they where sick of COT.
    If you or whom ever else feels that there are changes that need to be made it has to be proven to the dev's With majority player pro-action.
    If no majority pro-action ever takes place the the dev's will rightly or wrongly assume that it is only a minority group of whiners having a spat because they have been unlucky in farming for a bit and assume the drop rates are down or have lost in pvp and are crying about losing again.
    If it is true that this game is borked and needs big changes then you will have no problems organizing majority pro-active boycotts of the areas of the game that need change.
    I have agreed with the game change suggestions that have been put forward by Rhysingstar and would like them to be implemented. that is why I am telling the community on the forums how to go about making these suggestions a reality in the game with proven techniques.
    If you say that this obvious truth is a lie then you must secretly agree with the dev's in that the complaints are only coming from a small minority of players and are not confident that you could organize any
    majority pro-active boycotts.
    Please prove the dev's wrong. prove that your not just part of a small group habitual vexatious complainants and organize the players in to majority pro-active action and help to obtain the changes we all would like to see.
     
    Rhysingstar likes this.
  17. Rhysingstar

    Rhysingstar Forum Ambassador

    That I completely agree with.

    Forums by their very nature are places for people to complain.

    I'm a business owner and believe that every business needs to make money, that's the point of being in business.

    I want DSO to make money so that they stay in business and make new and better games, those things go hand in hand.

    I believe my solutions (at least some) would increase revenue.

    When I had quests and the small belief that I could find/craft new gear, I spent money. Now that I have nothing to look forward to except mindless grinding, I stopped spending money.

    Of course it could be said that I am the only one who has done this, maybe it's true. But the fact remains, unhappy customers don't spend money.

    All I am asking is for DSO to give me a reason to spend my money again.
     
  18. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    Nonsense!
    Leaving the game because they could't gather enough COT's to ID gear? How much they were playing ... 15 minutes per day ... maybe?
    With such a playtime they were never into the game at first place if you ask me. I have always had around 20-30K COT's ... and never bought a single COT.

    What your solutions? As I remember you were saying this is a good release ... before it even came to live servers? And now you changed your mind because you wasn't thinking of the consequences.

    Noone cares about BP's revenue ... this is a game and the players care only about their gameplay.
    People in the game are playing and having fun with their friends and are having good time with each other talking and playing ... but I doubt that the main topic of their conversations is BP's revenue.
    Usually they talk about low drop rate ... and other things.
    If you want to talk about revenue ... visit this place ... and you can talk as much as you like. :D

    Revenue ... ccccccc
     
  19. Knightofyourlife

    Knightofyourlife Someday Author

    No it is not Nonsense.
    When I came back this xmass my main characters stashes had about 20 unidentified legendary items in them that where not going to be ID'ed any time soon under the old system.
    I remember nothing but complaints about it on the forums and I remember the on mass exodus when that was not heeded by the dev's I was a hold out crying on the forums for a few months before I left as well.
    When I came back I ID'ed all of them found out they where all rubbish and and melted the lot and the amount of glyphs I now have is mental.
     
  20. Darwarren

    Darwarren Count Count

    Thank you Big Point!

    I finished the event progress bar in about 36 hours of play, and finished the Heredur Doll with another 6 hours of play. I also got 1 unique from Sigris Hard, and 2 from Herald of the Anderworld, and about 800,000 melt.

    It really helps to play with Champions. (You know who you are. Names withheld to hold down the chatter.)

    Someone at DSO must have listened to the complaints about low drop rates, but that could be a coincidence. The lag was severe at times, but there was almost always another location that was not so bad.

    All in all, I can keep playing the game now!
     
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