Announcement Dwarf class & Skill Rebalancing

Discussion in 'General Archive' started by Sunlight, Jul 28, 2017.

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  1. kkawa

    kkawa Forum Greenhorn

    Dear drakensang Team I agree that you need to nerf dwarf (I'm a dwarf...) but I don't agree that you need to nerf it that much because most of the dwarfs in this game are just like other classes if you don't pay money into it it wont be as strong.. I didn't have a problem when I saw guns die or the new auras around guns but I do have a problem if you take away speed from the machine guns and dwarfs will lose more then 50% dmg by this. And lets say dwarf gonna need crit if you doo a decent dmg whit crit dwarf has only 3 skills that can use whit crit normaly when mages ranger tanks have all there skills krit soo I woud agree whit every "rebalancing" exept removing speed from machine guns that's really unfare and if that's the case you gonna lose lots of player..... Drakensang Online pleas read this and answare me..

    ---MERGED---

    I agree and if you woud loss the speed dmg on machine guns you only have 3 skills which can crit soo even if you put crit to dwarf it will be useless...
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017
  2. Fugnuts

    Fugnuts Forum Master

    Nerfing items (sets) and their options is a dumb move.Many players invested a lot of time and resources creating some builds based on certain uniques.For instance if you remove AS multiplier for dwarfs, then all those dwarfs who spent tens of thousands of gold to craft 4x% AS gold line glove and crystal or other stuff ...will they get something in return? NO, and they dont even have an option to revert the crafting leg to unique process in order to save the leg for another unique. Instead of nerfing a set that its considered to OP in PvP, why dont you nerf the PvP tree which gives 25% dmg ..25% defense and other stuff?At least this way , those who have crafted them uniques can at least use them at PvE instead of melting them after the nerf.Jesus..the way the DEV team thinks...nerfing each unique...making players lose a ton of resources and time which they used to farm for them items to craft...

    Do you really expect for this game to last long if you keep taking a dump on each player's work by nerfing them items?Go ahead with these changes that will kill the dwarf class, go on and kill the mages and warrior next and you can close this game.

    If dwarfs are to be killed in such a way i expect for a way to recover some of the looses that were used in creating 4x% gold items...
     
    semen470 likes this.
  3. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    The turrets are not pulling aggro.
    The problem is ... they can be destroyed by any monster (especially ranged ones) just because they are on their way.
    I was testing a bit with my level 50 midget in level 40 normal map ... using only turrets.
    The outcome was: I couldn't kill a thing since my turrets were destroyed by the monsters all the time.
    I can see they are implementing the suggestions (not all) we were giving in the past ... but this mix of changes is simply not working because it is not well done.

    As for the skill animation rework:
    The skills are now performing faster ... which leads to more skills being used at same time for same attack speed value. One can have a feeling like running and shooting at same time especially Dragonknights who can run and hit faster with very low attack speed and 2H.
    Rangers and SWs are more agile than ever.

    Here is a video I created ... but because of the apps running in the back and the recording software ... I got a lag so some skills improvements can't be seen quite good (especially performing 4x teleport while using MC) and move and hit pattern.



    also ... the Heredur fight was made like it is (without dodging attacks) so can show the tanks ... who were screaming in this thread "how can we tank without teslas". Very easy instead of using only one button on your keyboard ... without essences ... you will have to learn to use all the skills. It was only painful mode but I can do the same in infernal with few more pots.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
  4. Fugnuts

    Fugnuts Forum Master


    Yep.If they plan on going with turrets having hp, then the hp of them turrets should be at least 10 times the amount thats on test sv.Even 10 times is kinda low.If its too high , it will be as it was before this patch..if its too low it will kill the class.Curious to see how the dev team will find the right balance here lol.
     
    semen470 likes this.
  5. Viki

    Viki Forum Mogul

    facepalm...so show us pls how u tank heredur on infernal with "few" pots :D i'm not wondering, why the mages is currently the weakest class in pve, when i read statements like this ...
     
  6. callme0216

    callme0216 Advanced

    So..

    • Tesla is completely destroyed.
    • Rocket useless with basic attacks.
    • They took away our speedboost. That means -+50% dmg. (So doesent matter if we have good crafted items to dmg :) )
    • We dont have crit, but Jesus Crist if they give us crit doesent matter anymore ,casue i know no one will play and spend time again to get good items again.
    • Turrets are useless, doesent matter what u all other classes saying, dwarf good only cause of their turrets now the turrets have 500-1000 hp?! Are you kidding me? A Fatal monster dealing 4-5k dmg, same with archers. And there is a bounch of them on the map.
    Yes im pissed ,cause i spend a lot and lot of time to get good items , took me 5 month to craft a good adorment with speed, exactly with belt..
    So what u all talking about?!

    And im not even talking about the OP chars..

    But idk why im here ,maybe just telling the truth to that people who laugh at the dwarfs.

    I already uninstalled this game ,than if they releashe this i will block that game to make sure i never come back.
    Because the devs act like they dont know * about this game..
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
  7. Vuvuzela

    Vuvuzela Forum Greenhorn

    Do you want a balanced game? Ok. 1. Remove the sapphires from the weapon and adornment and place them in the inventory until these stones refined - for all classes. 2. Remove attackspeed multiplier for the Machinegun Turret. 3. Let The turrets be affected by damage and effect like normal monsters, but empower a dwarf to choose one of the 5 immunity types for each turret at any time: phisical, electric, undermagic, fire and ice.
     
  8. Saved_81

    Saved_81 Forum Master

    I don't care what you mean with "taking agro", the point is that the bosses, ALL of them, are efficiently aiming at the turrets and removing them.
    In the video I linked in a boss fight that lasted 58" Grimmag used Methoer spam 12 times:
    11:46
    12:18
    12:26
    12:29
    12:33
    12:35
    12:42
    13:15
    13:26
    13:31
    13:38
    13:42

    On average, the boss used that attack once every 4,8", which means that EVERY 5" the boss resetted any DMG source from dwarf.
    I don't see any special shield that prevent fireball/ice missiles/lightning for the other classes.

    What are you talking about?!?!
    There's no need to run to avoid those Attacks, you have to make a couple of steps to avoid them and if you are too lazy to use your left mouse button you can always blink; the total DPS lost because you had to avoid a telegraphed attack shouldn't be more than 0.5", on the other hand a dwarf have restricted movement area because he won't undeploy his turrets moving too far from them. In the video posted, in any of the boss fights the dwarf never stopped to attack for more than 2" and this is another mith must be destroyed:

    Most of the ppl think dwarfs are headless chicken running trough the maps while it's exactly the opposite, dwarfs are one of the most stationary classes in the game (exactly the most stationary after DK)

    Dwarfs don't have any resource regen and their main resource regen comes from Quick shot talent.
    Any dwarf uses that talent and the reason is pretty simple: it's needed to sustain turrets.
    Any time a dwarf starts walking is losing resource regen (ironically, if you walk away, you can't even get the steam from Tactical Turrets since the flying bombs travel slower than a player with 0 walking speed).
    While SW and RA can move to simply restore their resource (or use some skill that will full restore that) dwarfs have to attack therefor stay in the place.
    The main reason for a dwarf to move it's just to reposition to cast the turrets into the best direction to maximise the dmg.
    If this wasn't enough, moving away from your turrets will make em useless because they can't turn toward the mobs so, the best you can do it's anyway to run into their AoE and not run around like many of you imagine.

    The only area in which a dwarf can take some advantage is when you have to solo some bosses.
    In that case you can run around stationary bosses like heredur, herald and grimmag, for all the other bosses, the fact you can't put much distance between you and the boss or you have to tank the dmg makes you weaker because the boss will always move away from the turrets or will force you to undeploy them.

    The best part of this is how stupid and incoerent the argument is:
    dwarfs can run away while turrets are doing dmg BUT they have to run away from turrets to prevent the mobs to destroy em so, in the first place ppl asks for a more static combat style while, on the other hand, they support a system that forces the dwarf to move away from his turrets (in other word they pretend the dwarfs to be like headless chickens): LOGIC!!

    The ONLY thing a person with 2 working brain cells would have asked to "balance" the PvP for dwarfs would have been to restrict the area in which mechanical turrets (the almighty turrets that deal 65% base dmg without crits and attack speed bonus!!!!) could be casted. Reducing that range (his casting range and therefore their range of action) would have let the noobs be able to get in closer range before the turrets start attacking, would have forced the dwarf to move into a smaller area and would have made easier for the noobs to aim at the dwarf in pvp.

    But now we will have to live with this crazy idea which will destroy PvE for dwarfs and, to complete the mess, we will have to suffer a 60-80% dmg nerf (that fortunately on the test server isn't active yet and, as someone already noted, probably is referred only to the graphical effect of the turrets).
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017
  9. DocWhisky

    DocWhisky Forum Connoisseur

    Wow ... Even more proof that the Devs and Corporate Officers have absolutely no idea what they are doing .. I mean this is definitive proof... would stand up in any court across the globe as such!
    This so called "Rebalancing" (A class "A" Oxymoron for sure!) takes things just a little too far. You BP people are trying to jump over a mountain.... what ever happened to baby steps??? little bits at a time til you get it just right???

    IMHO .. Is balance needed in the game?? Without a doubt!! .. is there anything close to "balance" in the game now?? Absolutely not!!
    And with each of these so called "Rebalancing" efforts ... you make it worse!!! And I have no doubt that no matter what anyone on these or any other forums says... You will do it any way no matter how wrong it is,,, and then do several more Re-rebalancing releases to fix everything you broke in the first place.

    Instead of giving turrets hp, how bout trying a little less dmg and time active a few seconds shorter. Or if you insist on HP like other minions, make them invulnerable for the first few seconds so they can get off a few shots before being destroyed.
    I dont play dwarf, dont have one on TS to test. And since logging onto TS is such a pain EDIT theses days, I wouldnt dl/install whole game just to test for few mins ...or even for a few hours... not worth it to me. Because then you have to dl/install live version again just to play your regular account ... Like I said... so not worth it ..... Just to test something, and then have your input ignored anyway.

    I have seen so many players leave this game after other illogical moves just like this. These things should be done in small increments, not massive. sweeping. total game changing moves!

    Thanks, Doc... the jaded.
     
    Last edited by moderator: Jul 31, 2017
    semen470 likes this.
  10. Titus76

    Titus76 Forum Greenhorn

    Lol im mage and in pvp dwarf are only oneshot for me lol but i m lvl 43 and i have not experience for speak...
     
  11. Zornitsa

    Zornitsa Forum Greenhorn

    If dwarf ll be nerfed i quit the game ....to many nerf for dwarf in 2 years stop plz!!!

    I just i have difficult in painfull....lol after ? I have not 5.000 euro for upgrade my char...so i must only leave...
     
    kaahay likes this.
  12. Velidor

    Velidor Forum Greenhorn

    some improvments of main idea
    1. add another bonus to turret when in close vicinity to Dwarf - immune to all damage and control - like today
    2. if turret was destroyed - explode (and stun) like skill Dwarf-in-the-Box
    3. need fix slowest regeneration of resource (Steam)
     
  13. zoldorak

    zoldorak Forum Apprentice

    Did u played with all class... for tank u need stats full deff+stats for farming (full dmg) + stats for pvp (balanced stats)
     
  14. ThukMohl

    ThukMohl Forum Apprentice

    How about dwarf Knowledge Tree

    Have you consider ADEPT INVENTOR? What's the point of those steam buff? With these change we will not rely anymore on steam-based skills. As they are not anymore our main source of damage. Balance?

    And Emergency Measures? Can those turrets still save us? Even dwarfs will not select this tree but still make it viable like the other class. Balance?

    How about the buff behind those turrets? Mech turret's CD reduction? Machine gun's Damage Reduction? And Tesla's Immunity buff? Can we still get steady supply of these buff?

    Machine Gun is my main source of damage in PVE. What will i use now?

    Please think about the changes you want to implement, there still a lot you have to consider.
     
  15. Saved_81

    Saved_81 Forum Master

    And did you try to build a dwarf at high tier lvl (full crafted gear)? Then, if you ever tried it, you would understand what I wrote.
    The fact you want to play with different builds in different scenarios and this takes twice the efforts to craft 2-3 different sets isn't different from what any other class would have to sustain.
     
  16. anolajen

    anolajen Someday Author

    bad news other classes owns usually even worse tree skills

    saved _ 81 sadly your numbers proved iam right as you picked only boss from many mutations that start to spam destruction + meteors cooldown free for some time after summoning guardian where you have to move as he spam meteor and destruction at you every 1,5-2s

    11:46 = normal meteor
    12:18 = normal meteor +32sec
    guardian
    12:26 +3s meteor
    12:29 +3s meteor
    12:33 +3s meteor
    12:35 +2s meteor
    12:42 +7s meteor ( weird delayed by something .. lazy to check mind control ? or maybe teleport ? )
    13:15 +33s normal meteor
    guardian = his cd free cycle start again
    13:26
    13:31
    13:38
    13:42
    other grimmag versions cast only those " normal meteors" once per 30-40sec
     
  17. allcoss

    allcoss Forum Apprentice

    I think if now doing this rebalancing with so many negative than dwarf need some changes in skills with benefits. For example: "heavy shot" make depended on stream and remove cool-down.
    They can make cool-down for towers (like mag and rangers have) but without stream.
     
  18. multitoonz

    multitoonz Forum Great Master

    What I would like to see is an explanation from a real life DSO dev who was part of the decision making team actually explain WHY they thought a class killing "balancing" like this was even considered. And WHY they think it would bring balance to the game? Pages and pages of negative feedback regarding this death patch and yet not a word from anyone about it.
    So IF we still have a CM, why not pop in here and let us know YOUR thoughts and maybe an explanation.
     
  19. Heredur_oin

    Heredur_oin Forum Greenhorn

    dear bigpoint . dont do nerff dawrf..... i have just lvl up 53 today... i dont want stop play dwarf..:mad:
     
  20. AbradolfLincler

    AbradolfLincler Someday Author

    allcoss, cooldown for our turrets? please DO explain what we would kill things with as heavyshot isn't that useful because crit is not a viable option for this class. turrets ARE and ALWAYS will be our main way to deal damage and machine guns are the SOLE damage dealing skill we have. add cooldown and you've ruined the class further than the patch. adding steam cost to heavyshot decreases our ability to spawn new turrets as they get destroyed in this "rebalancing".

    Saved_81, "There's no "if" or "but" on the case, Turrets are taking (they ALWAYS did) the agro of ANY bosses' telegraphed Attack." i have not tried an end boss on TS yet, but never have i NEVER had an end boss aim at my turrets. when solo, bosses send ONE telegraph attack at me and me alone. i'm not spreading myths...i PLAY this class! if i put out MG, neither grimm, nor herald, nor spider have EVER sent an attack onto them. they do NOT pull aggro as the boss is not centered on ANYTHING but the toon. i've NEVER seen any boss bomb wolves, treeman dude guy, or sw guardians unless the toon was right next to it...ever...UNLESS taunt is on. i agree, in that picture there are two attacks. ONE centered on turrets and ONE centered on the toon, but that's a new thing. so unless YOU ARE Littlelady on TS, or you've had a stroke and can't see that in ALL the other videos that only those attacks go onto the character itself...i don't know what else to tell you. watch other solo videos of sm please. please know your facts about how sm work before stating that i am "spreading myths" about i class i DO in fact play. i JUST asked my sw and ranger friends to go solo a boss really fast and see if bosses attack anthing but them. nope! i just did bosses too (on live server) put machine guns on one side and me on the other. never ONCE did boss give two poops about my turrets. i feel you are incorrects saying "they AWLAYS did". maybe with the new adjustments on TS, they might. i cannot speak for that, but as far as live server...bosses do not care about turrets, guardians, or ranger minions. if you STILL believe that turrets draw aggro, please let me know. i'll be happy to make a 10 minute video dropping turrets with a tank or without to show you turrets at least on live server, has zero effect on where the boss puts their damage. please don't get me wrong, i appreciate you working with us here to come up with a solution, but please don't imply i don't know what i'm talking about with my own class. i'm no expert of 5 years of play, but i've never ONCE seen any boss go for my skills vs my char. all my tank friends agree. i'm afraid you're wrong on this one. if you have live server evidence, please share because that #$%& would be news to me and all the people i play with. again, not trying to start an arguement or an internet war. i'm just confused on what you are basing your evidence on.

    to all (steams or other classes), thanks for the support, recommendations and concern about how BP could possibly begin to devastate each class by taking these changes too far. i fought for rangers, i'll fight for sw and dk if poor changes come as well. let's stick as a team here! thanks to all!
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
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