dwarf skill change ideas

Discussion in 'Steam Mechanicus' started by bezryl, Dec 11, 2019.

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  1. bezryl

    bezryl Active Author

    just some random ideas on how to change the dwarfs skills

    before reading this please note i honestly don't care if they nerf q7 and think it would be ok and nice to use other skills

    been thinking some of dwarfs skills could be "active skills"

    what i mean by this is they are always active outside city but have a cost like 50 steam to have 1 active meaning - max steam amount until turned off

    some example ideas is tesla turet would now be a lightning effect around your dwarf always on with roughly the same radius it has now, think of you siting in the center of a tesla but it moves with you something like that but you would no longer be able to place it obviously. this would make q4 way more valuable imo

    machine gun could be transformed into a machine gun you shoot yourself like quick shot, it would function similar to having a machine turet out but you are shooting it and more important aiming it, if q7 was ever changed it could just buff this skill or something..? or maybe increase the "spread" of the shots and dmg making it similar to q4 but different skill

    mechanical turet could be "shoulder mounted" and always moving with you, yess the idea is from a movie:D, or give us actual capes and put one on the stick capes are on

    mechanical turet/q8 changes:give us a skill to add aoe/exsplosive dmg to the shots like 25-50%
    q8 changes the dmg to frost slowing and maybe small dmg buff? without something like the aoe dmg on the shots without q8 mechanical turet can not compete with machine/tesla

    iron dwarf: change this to a defensive similar to dragonhide or something, as is its mostly unused, if you activate it and open inventory you can see they already have something like a model for this. or just make it a summon skill call a iron dwarf he fights and dies like mages guardian or ranger wolfs. as is this skill is crap why use it when you do waaaay more dmg and fight better out of it, all im using it for now is runing past the towers in the event for more resistance:(

    bombs:they are okish...the delay on them is not the most fun and attack speed dont effect them, they seem out of place

    steam conductor is fine as is, utility and thats what everyone i know of use it for

    tactical turet:not used by me or anyone i know its crap. we get two bombs from it per 10 sec, change this to a dmg skill make it do HUGE DMG with a really large radius and actually aim at enemies. we are only getting two shots so its gota do alot of dmg in a big area to be worth using

    dwarf in the box: again not used mostly have no ideas on this one

    oil:again not used:( maybe instead of it throwing the oil on the ground you throw a barel of oil at the mobs and it slows/dmg them for certain amount of time instead of now if they walk out of it its useless

    rocket:is ok as is

    heavy shot:if q7 is changed would become a unused skill have no ideas for this

    so the general theme of these ideas is to make it so we dont gota deploy tuets anymore and atleast imo makes us more balanced compared to the other classes(WE WOULD PROBALLY DO LESS DMG) but way more fun to play/makes some unused skills usefull
     
  2. Bundin

    Bundin Active Author


    You Play with dwarf and U dont use it lol with 5 Point Talent it gives a huge dmg buff on your quick shot when U use quick shot full talented then U can use it with bloodrifle for bigger base dmg and with q1 set combined U get an awesome quickshot dmg. What I find a Little bit bad the radius what its have a Little bit small.

    The Towers tesla, machinegun, and mechanical gun dont touch it, but the tactical turret could be Change to an aoe attack like a mini mortar, so it shoots out not a slow flying bomb, it must be work like a real mortar.

    Iron dwarf yes its useless, yet but we dont Need Guardian make the iron dwarf skill more thougher, or make a set what can make more effective it.

    Bombs normally only usefull during the lvl-ing after that it is useless for us, because its slow like a snail.

    Dwarf in the box make not one hit or make steam cost cheaper dont worth the cost.

    Dont touch q7 make another set useful like that q7 set is the only option for rangers yet.
     
    Steve75 likes this.
  3. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Overlooker

    No, Q7 is too strong and should be nerfed... also, regarding dwarf, it is way more important to nerf (rework) Q8, bullets could explode in exchange for lower damage.

    Then perhaps some other possibilities could be buffed and some more reworks could follow.

    Because everyone got too fast. People are reaching the terminal speeds with 2h... that could perhaps be possible with some speed-oriented 1h build, but not for any build. Something for something.
     
    trakilaki likes this.
  4. elitecrew1031

    elitecrew1031 Regular

    What do you think if we (Dk's,Rangers and Dwarfs) create a thread where we rant how unfair it is to nerf our q7set and how much effort put in it, will they cancel it ? I think not, BUT if a mage create such a thread they will indeed cancel such a nerf (bloodstaff). Then I'm asking why q7 should be nerfed for 3 classes,when bloodstaff didn't get a single change ? 3 classes should suffer because of the simplicity of the mage players.I don't wont my characters to get nerfed because of the simpleminded people who refuse to understand that each class has its advantages and disadvantages.
    Dwarfs op/Rangers mega op/DK's should be played only 1h/Mages weaker then 1h Dk's PVE (sarcasm)
    How do you feel if they nerf your weapon ? (Oh wait they won't because they never touch your class)
     
    Bert11, Bundin and 1vanka like this.
  5. Bundin

    Bundin Active Author

    Speed thing is a general failure from BP and they made itr stronger with the knowledge talent tree....
     
  6. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    The Earth is flat, the Sun is revolving around the Earth, The Earth is the center of the Universe ... and then come people, like Giordano Bruno, who argues that is not true. Then, the butthurt society of peasants and their Inquisition masters start frenzy screaming "heresy! heresy! heresy!" and they burn them people opposing their whitewash crap ... at the stake.
    Centuries later ... when it proves those "heretics" were actually right, the same society of people screaming for punishment, turn 360 degrees and say "Well ...oink ... we actually knew they were right ... oink ... we were actually bored and killed them as a joke ... oink".
    And these events are repeating over and over and over again throughout the history, but always changing shape and place.
    They now infest the movies, games, music (ermm ...music? what it is?), comics, everyday life ... etc.
    They are revisiting the things made in the past and changing them to worse ... because they have no capacity to make them better and have even less capacity to make something new.
    - The good old music has been turned into one beat repetitive computer sound, because the old one was too complex for the new generations.
    - The old T-800 model 101 has been turned into draper and the old T-1000 has been made female and renamed to LGBT-1000. Because men are toxic and we don't have capacity to invent something new and better ... and we still need to sell crap and make money.
    - The ranger class has been destroyed and made just like any other class but without a soul, because of the players who are or might want playing a ranger ... without knowledge how to play it.
    - 2H weapons has been made faster than 1H weapons, having more damage and same critical hit, critical damage, because ... why not? We are masters in balancing and we feel like you should play our way or hit the highway.
    - and that was not enough but we actually made one OP set for all ... because "This is Sparta! Qaizah!".
    But, fortunately our Universe is a place of harmony and it has ability to fix and heal itself ...
    Whether like it or not things will get fixed. OP q7 set will become a set of the past and the Bloodmage weapon unique enchantment will get fixed eventually.
    It is already happening! 1H builds are becoming useful again...well not enough and certainly not for ranger class since it was nerfed so bad so it can't actually function without q7 set. But yes ... mages can have a same damage and speed with 1H as the Bloodmage builds.
    The almighty King Harold the Worthless will get his back kicked hard and the Queen Antonia will find a new King of Duria and the things will start to getting better.
    The OP argues that midgets have useless skills based on no experience whatsoever.
    Midgets are the only OP class that are having OP skills on top of the OP set. That can be seen easily at the place called arena where buffs and set bonuses are not working (well they are not supposed to be working unless there is a bug or exploit which almost always happens).
    Bombs, Tactical Turret and Oil are not useless but rather OP skills.
    I wonder how come the OP has never learnt of the real potential of those skills.
    But sure ... having an OP class is not enough ... lets enable the god mode for that class.
     
    kolombianos likes this.
  7. Bundin

    Bundin Active Author

    LOL Tactical turret skill useless for dwarf as it works yet has no sense. If u know about this skill what I dont know then let me know it. As it works its a scrap skill, before I used it because its enormus steam charging after the changing its a scrap, for dmg I will never use, for buffs it cost too much in steam so it is a scrap.

    The bomb is not useless completly but not good enough to use too slow I made a set for that for my dwarf but then i surprised that quickshot is much better than bomb beacause it much faster and make more dmg, my opinion the bomb must have breakpoints not so much and big as the quick shot or the Specialshot but must have this speed too slow yet.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
  8. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Forum Pro

    [​IMG]

    Holy crap going through your post history is such a memefest I love it.

    First of all:
    - mages were using Q7 originally. Any respectable mage player had it crafted and were using it like any other class
    - BM build surfaced with royal gems tiers which is semi-recently because mage Q7 is (and was) absolute dog
    - BM was never op, it was weak and was abused only due to old bloodrune set bug for a short duration. Even Q4 was better than BM and that speaks VOLUMES.
    - SMs were using BM for quite some time as well
    - this point is actually cool because both SW and SM changed their weapons but the opposite way. SWs changed from Q7 to BM while SMs changed from BM to Q7. SWs gained about (maybe) 15% raw power from that change while SMs gained about 100%. Balance I guess :D Best thing is SMs were absolutely overpowered even before the crit changes since they easily could just ignore crit and crit damage and deal MORE damage than SW anyway. "But Rak, we had to change our entire gear for crit!" - Did you have to though? Ask yourself how much worse would your damage output be even without crit / crit damage in comparison to before the change? Its shocking im telling you but IT WASNT REALLY IMPACTED BY THAT CHANGE. You changed your gear while getting probably more that twice the power from crit and crit damage (Q8 SM with some crit was already super strong BEFORE the crit change).​

    The only one who's simple minded is you because you cant see the large picture due to your class bias.
    Your Q7 weapon nerf is WELL DESERVED unlike the BM nerf.

    BM = literally the same stats for everybody, good only for 1
    Q7 = literally different for everybody, OP for 3, good for 1

    Nerf = BM

    because why not, it makes sense and im the smooth brain here.

    SM is too strong without Q7 and borderline broken with it and that means (not only) Q7 is the source of imbalance.
    RA is terrible without Q7 and 2nd best with it (or BM) and that means (not only) Q7 is the source of imbalance.
    DK is THE WORST without Q7 and TERRIBLE with it and that means (not only) Q7 is the source of imabalnce.
    SW is decent without Q7 and decent with it and that means Q7 IS NOT the source of imbalance.

    Q7 = broken for 3 classes (nothing can top it ever for 2), good for 1
    BM = "bad" for 2 classes, good for 1 class (maybe 2 including ranger since it provides more power for the price of more gold on pots)
    Q4 = terrible for 3 classes, mediocre for 1 class

    DPS:

    SM (4500) > RA (2100) > SW (1800) > DK (1400)

    Q7 broken for: SM, RA, DK
    Q7 not broken for: SW

    And dont argue about damage of other classes and that SM deals less damage than ranger or mage. At this point its just silly if you do and you will just prove your class bias :rolleyes:

    Q7 nerf would impact: SM, RA, DK

    SM > RA = SW > DK

    Now nerf SM Q8 and boost their AoE a bit (maybe attack speed scaling bombs or bomb damage scaling with attack speed, idk there are many solutions to that).

    SM = RA = SW > DK

    Now buff DK on PvE only

    SM = RA = SW = DK

    Here, damage output imbalance solved.

    Now, off to slowing bosses:

    SW > RA > DK > SM

    Bring back bosses immunity to slowing.

    SW = RA = DK = SM

    DPS:
    SM = RA = SW = DK

    Utility:
    SM = RA = SW = DK

    Hard? No.
    Takes time and effort? Yes.
    Will it happen? No - because of the question and answer above.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2020
    DBS-Flamelurker and kuwabaraz like this.
  9. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    Is that from that discord channel? I am not there ... how is it related to me? :rolleyes:
    Resident Evil is freaking awesome ... just a game for me in these days of viruses and fake science. :D
     
  10. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Forum Pro

    "We are masters in balancing and we feel like you should play our way or hit the highway."
    Jesse: *makes fun of people that clearly have much more experience when it comes to the game and mock them for 'eating wisdom with spoons'"*

    He legtimately thinks that and not just him but the entire designer team as well. Experienced that first hand while talking with developers.
     
  11. elitecrew1031

    elitecrew1031 Regular

    Not true at all you will see why later
    Again you don't understand the point.
    Dwarfs had to change big part of their equipment in order to be relevant again. We didn't want such a change, has anyone heard us ? no and don't you dare go with (BuT NoW YoU DeAl MoRe)
    Meanwhile a single item is getting nerfed forcing you to change 2 max 3 items,mage gank rants and boom no nerfs.
    Never said such things,but trying again and again explainng you why you are wrong is pointless due to the fact you refuse to understand.
    Let's say they do what you want and every class has the same dps as others the
    won't be actually like but will be SW>RA>DK=SM. And why ? You may ask. Well the Dps per second you put is diffrent for every class and the dwarf is the slowest if we talk about clear speed no matter what he recieve he still will be forced to put to blue turrets shoot auto twice rocket and then start clearing. Now you will say ok then but why mage is superior to others ? Well mages still to this date can use bloodstaff and q7 buff and 90% + of mages that can use it (and don't even try with BuT I dOn'T Do IT,) Looks like it will take a lot years like (mind control) to fix it.

    Don't be so sure what character I have and I don't have ;)
    P.S you sound like the typical noobs that I carry, they see a dwarf that can do qX modeX without problems while helpind them so their mind goes like (''Dis Class op, why i can't be like dis nref nref nref dwaf!)
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2020
  12. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Forum Pro

    What do you mean not true? Do you play the same game as I did?
    BM has literally THE SAME STATS for EVERY class. You're just in denial.
    No, they hadnt. SM dps wasnt really NERFED (excluding automatic turrets attack speed scaling which was a bug, same type of bug as mind control :rolleyes:) when the critical hits were added to turrets. Your build was as relevant after the changes as it was before. What you got from changes was more than x2 damage from changing your items in comparison to what you were dealing before the crit changes. That's not "staying relevant". That's getting an insane reward for actually gearing like any other class.

    X dps before crit = X dps after crit (on your old build)
    X dps before crit = 2X dps after crit (on your new build with crit)

    The difference on old build was that you just couldnt place turrets and run around like a headless chicken anymore. Your turrets were vulnerable and you had to compensate with heavy shot for the loss of attack speed scaling in automatic turret.

    So dont lie to me you were weak because I know what my steam mechanicus friends could do with their characters before and right after the patch. Some were already using Q8 before the changes even while having 15% or 20% crit and they were doing much more damage than your usual meta slave dwarf with BM.
    You did, multiple times in fact and if you want it very bad then I'll find the exact posts and quote them to your majesty in denial. You said multiple times SW is outdamaging SM on PvE which is laughable coming from SM's mouth cause it just speaks about your 4fun mad "skillz".
    SM might be the slowest AoE clearer now but that doesnt mean it cant be changed.

    1) Give automatic turrets burst of the damage shoving more damage early and then scale it down with the time passing (so you can place 2 automatic turrets for the initial burst, drink pot, place them for the initial burst again)
    2) Give bombs attack speed scaling (each bomb is 330% damage which is 20% lower than SWs FS damage with built in mitigation reduction which FS doesnt have)
    3) Scale bombs damage with attack speed (instead of actually throwing more bombs make their damage scale with attack speed so if on your breakpoint you could throw 5x bombs per second then make their damage x5)
    4) Make heavy shot mark the enemy and another heavy shot detonate that mark for the same damage as killing mob would (so every other bullet from heavy shot would proc AoE 100% damage)

    This is just few solutions that I came up with in the past minute.

    "If you want someting you'll find a solution. If you dont want it you'll find an excuse."

    The latter one fits you perfectly. For you things are set in stone and nobody can do anything about it (or, which is more plausible, you're just defending your class because you realize 4500% DPS is kind of not okay when 2nd best class deals less than half of that :rolleyes:)

    And to this date its not worth. Q7 swap takes more time to execute than what profit it will give from that +150% damage.
    I know it upsets you and that some pepega people clickbait it on youtube but Im pretty sure there is at least a single wrinkle and you know deep down your "Q7 exploit" doesnt change much.

    Damage from Q7 is merely a 15-20% increase which means that only if you manage to do it in less than 1s (including both item being swapped back and forth and casting meteor in a proper spot) you will profit by increasing your DPS by 111%.

    15 500 is what you deal normally during 9s.
    16 500 is what you deal with Q7 swap during 8s (1s for swap)
    1000/9 = 111% increase
    Only if you do it with absolutely perfect timing aka 1s. If it takes you two you will actually lower your damage because 1s of normal damage is worth 1722% and you absolutely cant deal damage and execute Q7 swap at the same time.
    14 778 is what you deal with Q7 swap during 7s (2s for swap) which is less than 15 500 of normal damage.

    So not only Q7 swap is not profiting any SW in reality its a bug on top of that (and shouldnt be considered as it was meant and attempted to be fixed). Please stop bringing it up, its absolutely irrelevant since Q7 for mage is not broken as it is for other classes and that pitiful damage increase cant event compensate 1.5s of not dealing damage.

    Ad personam as usual but have fun. The funniest thing is you just summarized all of your posts about SW.
    Im actually not even crying about imbalance. I provide data, arguments and resolutions to people who say "SM weak", "RA weak", "SW op" unlike you which is only how you feel (since every thing you say is easily disproven by numbers, logic and skill ceiling).

    Good for you that you carry people, imagine what my SW could do if it is outdamaging you and your SM cause its such "broken OP class" to quote you :D:D
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2020
    vkillerx likes this.
  13. blackassam

    blackassam Forum Inhabitant

    All you need here is to compare the consumption of essence to the damage ratio... it's clear which class has the upper hand again. Which should also bring attention especially in connection with a special essence for events. The consumption disparity between classes is also large.
    The view from the other side and the impact of imbalances for farming or purchasing.
    :rolleyes::D;)
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
  14. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Forum Pro

    As much as I'd love to agree - essence consumption can be easily fixed so I wouldnt really bother using it as a valid statiscit.
    Essence is just an additional thing. If the classes are imbalanced ignoring essence they will be with it as well.
     
  15. blackassam

    blackassam Forum Inhabitant

    There is no way to disagree with that. In any case, there is a big difference if players at the same level from different classes need to make purchases, say: essence ingredients from channels for 15k or, in the worst case, 50k andermant. If they applied the balance to the consumption of essence for the individual classes, there would be only a time difference for the completion of the journey. Maybe then only subtle corrections to certain skills would be enough to make up for the time lag for each class.
     
  16. vkillerx

    vkillerx Forum Pro

    Very very nicely said ^-^
     
  17. Twenkyes

    Twenkyes Junior Expert

    If you think other classes are weak make own tread to buff your class, nerf class you dont play is selfish.
     
  18. vkillerx

    vkillerx Forum Pro

    I play dwarf and it´s obviously much better than any SW could be im already clearing content and paste higly comparable to my end-game mage even with darn 30k
    Secondly you know those threads are seriously useless and if you don´t well i wont be the one to enlighten you
     
  19. blackassam

    blackassam Forum Inhabitant

  20. elitecrew1031

    elitecrew1031 Regular

    Up to this date i never saw ranger/dwarf/warrior to use blood staff and q7
    Unlike you and your ''op dwaf friends'' not every player has the time to play and stalk in the forum not every player back then was 100% developed and the fact 15 even 20% of dwarfs were good after the patch doesn't mean 80% of the rest will be. But w/e again not understanding my point.
    I've always said that if we compare full map + boss mage will be faster. Up to this date it's still true but
    You sure ? Nowdays inf3 bosses are dead for less then 30 seconds even if you use it only at the start you gain advantage that is not small at all which makes this
    3 quick mafs .
    A skill must be simullar to ranger EA and mage Ice sphere so dwarf can compete with other.Even making bombs like that and heavy shot won't be that much of a diffrence and still dwarf will be the slowest ,
    Ya and the thread q7+q8 created by mage forum gank is not a rant at all. You provide everything on theory but nothing on practice, you have no idea how end game actually works because
    1. You are a noob
    2.You have the items just you have no idea how to play properly your class
    one of the two you choose.
    You saw new essence ? now you can annihilate the boss and be even faster the before.
    I can imagine how good your mage is and pretty much you proved once again you have no idea how end game works.Keep going with the dwarf when you reach my state iin the game you will understand some things I say, but until then it's pointless to pour mind in your head
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2020

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