dwarf skill change ideas

Discussion in 'General Archive' started by bezryl, Dec 11, 2019.

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  1. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Forum Pro

    And what is that proving? Actively using Q7 is 10 times more rewarding for the rest of the classes than using Q7 swap on SW. You wanted to help me prove the point? Thank you :oops:
    The fact that you twisted my words into something i didnt say.

    I said that pre crit change build was as good after it as it was before. You just had to add some heavy shots and not run like a headless chicken being rewarded for doing absolutely nothing but placing your invulnerable to damage turrets.

    Let me just start with saying that numbers will be different because i was rounding very roughly before but I will make it as transparent as I can to finally end the topic of Q7 swap cause at this point its just ridiculous.

    Some base facts:

    At max attack speed breakpoint SW can cast FS 4.2 times / s.
    Each FS deals 410% damage.

    4.2 x 410 = 1722% dps

    Now lets add 20% damage increase from herald's set.

    1722% x 1.2 = 2066% dps

    Q7 swap executed perfectly (most of the time it will take much longer) takes 1s.

    2066% x 9 / 10 = 18594% / 10 = 1859% dps

    As opposed to 1722% dps without Q7 swap aka 8% dps increase (1859/1722=1.0795).
    Now lest assume youre not a bot and you dont execute stuff perfectly so it takes you roughly 2s.

    2066% x 9 / 11 = 18594% / 11 = 1690% dps

    As opposed to 1722% dps without Q7 swap aka 2% dps loss (1690/1722=0.981).
    Also you cant Q7 swap consistently which makes the (perfect case scenario) 8% damage increase melt to absolutely irrelevant numbers during the entirety of the fight.

    Yes. Q7 swap is an advantange if executed flawlessly.
    No. It cant be executed flawlessly consistently during the fight without the help of forbidden tools.
    This advanatange is so minor it easily can be considered as margin of error.
    Are you joking? :D

    An AoE ability with a slight delay dealing 330% of your base damage with mitigation reduction is BAD?
    Adding free 100%/200% AoE base damage to each heavy shot on top of already existing perks is BAD?

    Then what do you want? Nuclear bomb that kills entire map on use? :D:D:D:D:D

    Bombs change literally fixes any AoE issues that SM has. They have good AoE range, they have multiple explosions (so if you place them badly you can still get some of the damage from them) and they shred armor.
    1 bomb on highest breakpoint would deal either 330% 4.2 times / s (1386% raw damage + armor break increasing subsequent hits) or 2 destructions worth of damage in 3 hits each second.

    Yeah I guess that's bad. And the best thing is you could still place your turrets and use them as usual adding another layer of AoE damage.
    Chapeu bas for another pitiful attempt at ad personam. I know you love projecting on others though :rolleyes:
    And how is that relevant to the topic?
    These essences quadruple already existing dps output.
    If SW can deal 1722% and SM can deal 4500% (roughly) the difference (2778%) will be quadrupled with it making SM deal 11112% more dps :D:D:D Balance I guess.

    You go ahead and believe that (the earth is flat) SM is worse than SW. Theres nobody who can help you, the self-proclaimed endgame SM player being outdamaged by spellweavers :D
    The best thing is that theres just a minor difference between SW and DK in dps and you're almost saying that SM is worse than DK in dps and you dont even realize that - that's the absolute best :D
    Last edited: May 9, 2020
  2. blackassam

    blackassam Forum Expert

    You are probably playing another game or you are limited in your outlook.
    There are still SM even if you don't see them and they are not in BM build presentations.
    The BM set is equally capable in both SW and SM .... unfortunately it did not find its application in DK and ranger.

    Last edited: May 17, 2020
  3. vkillerx

    vkillerx Forum Pro

    I haven´t seen BM rangers these days but few months ago there were some really good ones running around when getting 4.0 at.s wasnt as easy
  4. blackassam

    blackassam Forum Expert

    As I have indicated before, the real problem is in the consumption of essences. In this new age, when special essences are used for events, this is enough to know. With the introduction of new revolutionary types of essences, this topic will be even more sensitive for all classes. When the range deepens in need of farming or purchase. If this imbalance were compared, there would be only a time difference for the completion of the journey itself, leaving the difference in the DPS. This can already be reduced in the CD skills settings.
    So far, the biggest paradox is that a balanced RANGER looks best, whose opposites are then dominated by SM against DK and SW.
    I take this comparison in quotation marks even though he has his statement about the overall situation.

    But it doesn't matter anyway, because DEVs have their own sales policy, which they apply to get the most out of the players. Maybe also for the player to move to another class, which is currently the most advantageous. From some point of view, the balance is probably not very interested in them ... they would have made changes and adjustments a long time ago. This topic is completely useless.

    Otherwise, some skills deserve to be redone in all classes, not just dwarves. So I wish you good luck in that and peace be with you.:D;)
    Last edited: May 11, 2020
    rcch likes this.
  5. Bundin

    Bundin Regular

    And who asked for that the dwarves must have crit too all of their spells? Not the dwarves, but thank you. Everyone who cant use its mind, but always cry for something, because you think that the other class would s...k. That was so with the dwarves crit, give crit to dwarves because they dont have and for them its is too easy to build a dwarf without crit(but not). What happened? All the dwarves had changed in a month to crit and get much bigger dmg than before, whatever we thank you this...we thank that for the cryers...the dwarves was balanced to other classes without crit with crit they are unbalanced to other classes but crying is much easyer like thinking:D
    elitecrew1031 likes this.
  6. vkillerx

    vkillerx Forum Pro

    The dwarves
    No really, the dwarves
    Typical dwarven quote :D

    BaLaNcEd BtW
    MaGe ToO oP bTw
  7. elitecrew1031

    elitecrew1031 Regular

    God bless you and believe in what you believe, already said not going to repeat myself again,
    Please don't talk when you have absolutly no idea. We already got an idea of your ''op mage'' that is worse then 30 k dmg dwarf :D :D :D. Bp changed dwarf like that because other classes hard cried about how unfair it is that dwarf don't build crit ect ect ect. To end your suffering ill tell you a secret out of 9 q's only in 2 q's dwarf will be faster. You can check the videos 1 out of 3 videos dwarf is in 1st place (2 out of 3 videos mage did really big mistakes and after you have op end game mage (that is worse then 30k dwarf :D :D :D) you can easily see the mistakes
    If im not mistaken the mage from that video is an autoclicker and he basicly spam Res. pot. when is not neccesary. Tbh it will take less then 100 pots
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
  8. vkillerx

    vkillerx Forum Pro

    Can you just not speak anymore im in urge to puke from your ignorance to everything :D
  9. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Forum Pro

    It was the right thing to do but as usual it was executed so poorly there's hardly any words for that.

    Adding crit to already top class at the time without any repercussions is why we have things in current state.
    It shouldve been announced months in advance so people could adjust their build over time. It was just unreasonable in the first place that a character could simply ignore 2 offensive stats (while outdamaging these who had to utilize all 4) and go ham on attack speed and raw damage (increasing their damage output even further). It was a BP mistake and as usual players pay the price but does that mean everything is ok? No it does not.

    Everything was botched from the beginning. Dwarf was made critless so people can easily gear up and catch up then when people caught up to other endgame players they were overpowered becasue of their low gear requirements (on top of low skill ceiling which was just spamming turrets) and these were never adjusted. Then the lv 50 with turret buffs (2 of each instead of hard cap of 2 turrets IN TOTAL) and people got sick and tired of how brainless the SM gameplay is (spamming invincible turrets and playing dodgeball) they addressed it by reducing the damage output with attack speed scaling removal from automatic turrets and increasing the dps cap for SM by 400%. So SMs were slightly weaker for first two or so weeks then again we have the same situation as at the SM release - low gear requirements and then when SMs caught up to the endgame players again they top the charts. Its the same situation all over again because DSO developers have no courage to address controversional things. They will dodge the topic at any cost - that's why Q7 is broken (and its confirmed by DSO dev(s) as well but they are too scared to address it). Even the whole BM nerf (on TS) thing was such a clown fiesta ... They wanted to nerf BM because of Q7 swap (as confirmed by Jesse) because they are absolutely SCARED FOR LIFE to nerf Q7 ... How clueless and spineless can you be?

    My point being:

    You both clearly dont care about the balance. Your posts just prove that (thank you for making my job easier). Also


    Its amusing how quickly you began to mock people like me or vkillerx after your sad posts about how OP mage is ... I wonder what happened in the meantime. Did you git gud or just managed to craft some items and finally realized some stuff? :rolleyes:
    I really do wonder.
    Last edited: May 14, 2020
    blackassam and vkillerx like this.
  10. elitecrew1031

    elitecrew1031 Regular

    Good one, quoting my post that was written before Bp buffing monster and bosses. Pathetic try gotta admit.
    Yes things changed,like mages replacing warriors as class with their black hole/guardian/ meteor group buff ;) and many more changes unfortunatly forum mage gank will never change they will always be unhappy because their class is the worst class in the game :( :( :(

    Keep defending a player who claims that dwarf can clear faster then mages and rangers, keep defending a player who claims that a 30k dmg dwarf is able to outpreform his mage that he claims has already reached ''end game''.Defending this person means that you believe in his words so 30k dwarf > 90k (even more dmg) mage KEKW :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
  11. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Forum Pro

    There are multiple posts even past that. And multiple ones in quoted thread proving how ignorant you are.

    This is actually irrelevant but its not new that you cant get simple facts correct. These were in game for a long long time (May 30th, 2018) when you wrote quoted message :eek:
    How about this post from october which is post R220? :rolleyes:

    250% idoti from herald set omegalul - never seen somebody so clueless yet so arrogant at the same time. Prime specimen for me.
    Q7 is INCREASED DAMAGE (not on this item) and on top of that its 150%. Additionally I'd love to see you execute Q7 swap in half a second I really do when most humans can do it in roughly 1.5s (with it being actually pretty hard to execute in even 1s).

    "infinity mana" memes oh boy i didnt read that for quite a while now :D:D:D and complaining about dragan + mortis while the difference is laughable. Nobody that respects themselves is using mortis set (which kind of reminds me ... arent you using this set? :rolleyes:). Its probably bigger joke than sewer set is :D

    I wish it was just one post that I "dug up" but in all honesty you act deluded since forever. There's no excuse but you know it that's why self defense kicked in.
    Im actually not defending anybody. Its just your head that imagined a fictional war and me being an opposition to your 1 man army. Im an advocate for balance and youre the one against it which explains why you feel like im hostile towards you.

    On boss 30k dwarf has equal firepower to 75k mage which is funny that it is even allowed :D Boss or no boss this should absolutely NEVER be a thing but I guess according to your twisted definition of balance that is actually reasonable and you could explain that :D

    Also btw how about you suggest some ways to fix the dwarves issues? Because I did and you only managed to spit out "this wont change anything" without even trying to disprove what I said :D I'd ask you to try harder but you didnt even try to come up with anything yourself.
  12. elitecrew1031

    elitecrew1031 Regular

    And how is this irrelevant, are you trying to deny that entire class got replaced by 3 skills of the mage class ? o_Oo_Oo_O
    Well i guess every lee sin main that is capable to do chineese insec is not human being but let's say you don't have the mechanics to learn you can easily swap your gloves/weapon before entering the boss while runing so it will be around 0.5 seconds when you abuse this bug ;););) so basicly you will still recieve 9 seconds herald buff out of 30.

    3 classes can use . Mortis set herald set 500% increased dmg + 150 increased dmg
    1 class can use Mortis set + dragan set + herald set while using blood staff 500% increased dmg + 22% increased weapon dmg + 100% increased for this item dmg + 150% increased dmg .
    Not a laughable diffrence at all
    Probably you will say the same about easter event set,but some mages already are using this set.
    Also yes i use mortis set what's the problem why i shouldn't use a set that is better whenever is possible. o_Oo_Oo_O
    Never heard complains from the strongest players in heredur when I use this ''laughable'' set. 2-3 noobs to carry nowdays is too hard in modes like inf3/4 so using mortis set is good way to save time.More examples ok. Dtu event great opurtinity to use mortis set for higher modes,Karabossa event perfect oppurtunity again to use mortis set especially in modes like inf 6/7. but unfortunatly it requires brain to use :(:(:(.
    Fun fact itsn't not even allowed, and do you know why because mage that reached 75 dmg will not only have superior dmg to 30k dmg dwarf but will have better crit,crit dmg atack speed and everything other better . So if we compare inf3 for example the dwarf will be forced to buy ATLEAST pot for crit or use pet for crit because you can't tell me that 30k crit dwarf will have crit for inf3 (don't shame yourself)
    This is the reason you are ignorant and arrogant at the same time, you compare specific case because you know dwarf dps is focused on one target. Tell me for the last 3 months how many time you teleported to boss 0 probably ?? If you did were you farming more whole maps +boss or only boss ? You and mage gang here refuse to look at the whole picture and see what the reality is :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
    Now let's compare some full maps shall we.
    Starting with q2
    Wait wat the dwarf is on 3rd place how is this even possilbe ( ignoring the fact that the mage waste 5-10 seconds picking up shrooms that he doesn't need)
    How about q4
    *** the mage is faster then the dwarf, now that's impossible probably ''hacc'' ( again ignoring the fact that the dwarf had skip some monsters because they were too much and the op class wasn't capable of clearing fast :rolleyes:)
    And here's q1 one of the 2 q's i said dwarf will be faster then others
    (again ignoring the fact that he mage used ice sphere not lighting strike :rolleyes:)
    Before a week i watched a stream of the same guild (unfortunatly they hide/delete the vods and im unable to line)that did this videos the mage was farming q5 inf3 for fragments he was killing khalys for 20 seconds (and yes he was using blood staff + q7 buff :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:) on white essence how fast dwarf will kill khalys 15 secs ? 10 sec? 5 seco_Oo_Oo_O? And if we compare full map and boss because this is what every normal human being is doing in this game who will be faster i really wonder :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:.
    Nah :rolleyes:
    Just like your imagination that dwarf is superior :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:. Also unlike mage forum gang i don't spam in almost evry dwarf thread about nerfing dwarf, i don't claim like mages that
    And i don't claim that warriors should be played only and only 1h (too lazy to find the post).
    Already told you believe in what you want to believe it's impossible to explain on somebody that is refusing to understand :rolleyes::rolleyes:
  13. KulawyMao

    KulawyMao Exceptional Talent

    how many ppl play all maps on red ess with perma pots?
    so go try play mag without mass pot res and he will be on 2-3place
    realistic will be
    and than look at the future..
    there will be more events with speclial essencess
    so go to ss with spending essences and look how many ess is wasting on single map than multiple this 300-500x to do 1x event than multiple this 2x bc nobody will play alll the time on red ess
    Last edited: May 15, 2020
  14. heror

    heror Forum Baron

    I was silently going to watch and not type in this thread, but seeing the hipocricy lately lets say that its quite needed to do so. If you say that 1 class got replaced by 3 skills , then your hipocricy is absurd because this happened with EACH class, and no dont start to tell me BuT MuH tUrReTs uNd roRckEt yes u need exactly 3 skills, ranger also spams 3 skills Dk also spams 3 skills so ur argument number 1 goes to the trash.... actuall all of ur arguments are for the trash simply because you arguments actually show why YOU are wrong.
    Top tier hipocricy Right here. So you whine how spring set is " PRIVILEGE" but u think that using mememortis set which by the way will probably KILL you if u play solo and since you are high and mighty and talk about solo play then this argument also goes in the trash have fun cclearing ing 7 with 70k hp where 1 elite hit is oneshot :) yep thats what i tought not very well tought argument of you.

    waw you are getting better at trolling arent you ? So you are talkign about "needing to use crit tonic " ? Well what if u actually realised that u arent GATED to use a resource tonic like ranger and sw ? to which if u use crit tonic or hp tonic is absolutely doesnt matter ? Ye u need to realise when ppl talk to you about SIMULATED stats and what they can do on paper and not try to nitpick when u dont know yourself what is going on
    Now here you shot yourself in the leg SO. Why ? Well its pretty much obvious and EyEpOkINg to see that what you are talkign about and what whoever talks bad about the dwarf says. Just look at the boss time and you will see lowkey the dwarf being THE FASTEST BOSS KILLER. Of cource now u will whine and talk that the whole run matters. And here you know your class has 1 issue and that is travelign on the map. How do 20000 iq dwarfs fix this ? Very easy actually , they just take a ranger to give them permanent adrenalie. Rnager kills elites , dwarf nukes the boss ..... TA DA not 125121 iq required on this one. Not to mention how a inf 7 boss takes around 4-5 mins without a dwarf and with it it s 2 min run ........ye actually fair how 1 /5 is more than HALF OF THE GROUP DMG.
    Conclusion: The next time when you dont know what ppl are talking for dont throw dirt in their faces to confuse them . You have been one of the consistent players to argue that dwarfs are actually garbage when dwarf players THEMSELVES say that the class boss dmg is disgusting. If dso devs want to fix the class, give it more clear speed and less boss dmg . But as of right now its the only class that has cooldown reduction and 4 sources of it unknown why.
  15. vkillerx

    vkillerx Forum Pro

    I´ve never said that 30k midget can outperform 80k mage so stop changing what i said to your liking cause of your ignorance i just said it´s comparable typically on higher tier content

    I smell illegal programs
    Spoiler all classes can use that it´s just not profitable a tiny tad for them :p
    So for supporting your arguements you picked 2 of the mages easiest Qs just so you can whine how bad dwarfs are well what about comparing circus runs or inf7 or a duo with ranger for both mage and dwarf ...

    Also try take heed of the ess consumption and pot consumtion :D bcs midgets need maybe 1/10th of the res pots and maybe 1/4th of the health pots while using about 60% of the mage´s ess per run + you have freedom of choice in case of tonics which any mage who wants to deal dmg DOES NOT :)
  16. elitecrew1031

    elitecrew1031 Regular

    Looks like i should say it more simple.
    Forum mage gang want warrios to be standing stiill tanking machine not 2h class that deals dmg while also being tanky. The whole TANK boss thing is replaced by black hole guardian meteor buff.Probably ranger tree that dies from 1 i s able to tank it :rolleyes::D or maybe dwarf in the box/turrets are able to tank it :D:rolleyes: don't play innocent like you hear this for first time.
    never ranted about spring set being privilege just said he will think the same as mortis set
    Are you joking dwarfs infact need tonic for steam i have like 1,7k steam pots left in my inventory out of 5k that i bought before 2-3 weeks
    Believe or not it is what it is
    Wow so from 1vs1vs1vs1 we went to 2vs1vs1. ''Bigpoint nRef Dwaf because if he goes with ranger he op op'' :D:D:D:D
    Of course full map should be compared not only boss it's getting ridiculous at this point :D:D:D:D
    Tell me for the last 3 months how often you tp-ed in pw boss ?Where you spend more time porting and killing boss X or doing the maps + doing boss X ? It's the same as me comparing only map without the boss making dwarf in 3rd or even 4th place :D:D:D.
    You sure ? Next time atleast delete the post :):):)
    Aren't you saying that your 30k dwarf is better then any SW, aren't you saind that you are clearing ''content'' as fast as your end-game mage :rolleyes::rolleyes: (op mage btw:D)

    Oops forgot you are in another level of end game and you are still ignorant about some stuff mb.[/QUOTE]
  17. vkillerx

    vkillerx Forum Pro

    Speaking of ignorance while being ignorant what a paradox i think Zeno of Elea would like y.....oh hang on a minute he dealt with logical paradoxes :p

    I´d like to see any mage, ranger or DK clean i3 desert with 30k easily while midgets do that with one finger up thier bum and second in their nose

    I truly wonder why

    You need tonics that why you speak of steam pots lulw also if you have mana jewels no tonics are needed maybe 1 pot here and there :p
    (It´s not our fault that you have no skill regarding your own class)

    Well im not the one with eternal cdr from condensator and 5s cd on jumps which have larger range than any other jump in the game you can skip 90% of the map while mages has to clean it as they have 0 mobility skills aside of TP which is in most of the instances use as a free mana refill
    (once again)
  18. elitecrew1031

    elitecrew1031 Regular

    No no no why are you changing your words ? Don't play dumb
    Dwarfs need steam tonics and steam pots i didn't name one of them wrong did I ?
    Said the end game mage getting out preformed in a map by 30 k dwarf :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::D:D:D
    True you are the one with perma guardian and black hole getting untouched by the boss.:rolleyes:
  19. vkillerx

    vkillerx Forum Pro

    Dumb had spoken/Dumb had spoken again whilst he do not know what he had spoken before/I never said that :D :D :D/Well if you´d actually pay atention that works only up till a certain point than your great micro-midgets are thrice as effective and yes it is in most of the occasions on lower mode than i3
  20. elitecrew1031

    elitecrew1031 Regular


    now we comparing all clases lower then mode inf3 what's next comparing every class with half equipment ? :D :D :D
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