Feedback GAME REBALANCING FEEDBACK THREAD

True bro...but we should have 1 efficient way of healing imo...magic missile /wolves /tree is useless for us..both in pvp and pve especially on higher infernals.Ive suggested few times that we should have a type of healing that was supposed to work like the battle frenzy ...triggered by teleport/adrenaline and that was supposed to heal x% of hp over x amount of time.As it is right now we only have a healing that we cant use in both pvp and pve.

 

I am well aware that I'm staying the same, and you missed the point I was making. I was pointing out to Moot why everyone else had their damage boosted. While I'm not a fan of my class not getting this treatment, I understand why the devs are doing it and even support it.

But this part is a matter of perspective:

There are two kinds of "nerfs." There is a Direct Nerf and an Indirect Nerf (or Relative Nerf).

A Direct Nerf is like in R89 when they got rid of the mini stun for Rage Swing and replaced it with something useless.

A Relative Nerf is when nothing happens to your character or class, but everyone else is made stronger in someway. In this case, everyone else is made stronger, so DK's being left behind is a type of nerf.


Now, I'm not complaining about their choice. It makes sense. DKs have more base HP, so I'm not too upset if the other classes have a little more damage. If anything, but I think they should have done it back with R155 or R184-185 with a level cap expansion so that it happened more naturally. Instead, tacking it on as a "balancing" measure just serves to upset people over a little detail.

The thing that most people don't realize is that it really isn't that much damage. It is only 108 damage and once you multiply that by the normal amounts of % damage that most end game players have, you are talking about somewhere between 238 and extra damage 260 with no essence and green essence and only another 108, 216, and 324 damage on top of that when using blues/purple/red essences. So, after this release, SWs will gain a little less than 600 damage with reds. I'm not that upset by this change, but it is a matter of fact that DKs are being "Relatively" nerfed because they are staying the same while the other classes are being strengthened.

 

Map farming yes, Group farming a little, solo boss farming definatly not.

Turrets base dmg has been halfed from 150% to 75%

It's not removed.

You assume it wrong, aspd doesn't work that way

This explains a lot of things

If you had tested em in TS you would know PvP for dwarf it's still non-existant cause of their steam regen and things aren't better in PvE, the Tactical turret nerf was HUGE coupled with the fact bosses and opponents will destroy your turrets every 4-5" lowers a LOT the dmg output (DKs will even regen thanks those turrets... just to give an idea)

Noone "needed" and everyone "should"

Bloodrune was stronger than herald and even with the patch will probably stay stronger than herald.

This isn't happening in the TS and I don't agree at all.

You can farm it 2 days every month, you need to farm special ess while you can farm h24 Q7 "for free" and also get LB rewards for that and you think it's "easier" to farm BR set? Let me think... no.

You can; trust me. If you spent some time on TS you'll uderstand how important is ASPD now that you don't have Tactical turrets to support steam regen.

I crafted crit stuff on top of my hp & aspd stuff on top of my 1h build so what? In the meanwhile I'm freezed because untill they don't implement this patch I cannot craft any of my legs untill I don't know how badly they will change my class, be thankful you aren't freezed since 6 months.

PvE wise they're very good (mostly in Group if there's a tank), PvP wise... just forget em.
​

 

I've found some time for testing today and I was curious about that new 5pt talent of scatter shot and how it works.
While I actually wanted to test scatter shot and its behaviour with other armor breaking skills I've found your silent changes you made, and I dont really consider them being marginal. Call it silent changes, nerfs, bugs, I dont know if you even know about that or if it was supposed to be like that but you changed a lot about the Explosive arrow:

• You changed the explosion dmg from physical to fire: In the scatter shot talent 5 description you state that scatter shot applies a -20%armor debuff on enemies. It will work for the the direct hit of EA since its physical, however for the explosion (even though the skill says explosion hits with physical dmg as well) the debuff wont work, which means explosion has been changed to another elemental dmg, i guess its fire now.
• you changed the explosion's mechanic. On live server the armor break triggers before the explosion, therefore making the explosion hit its target on broken armor/res. Right now on testserver you changed it so armor break is applied AFTER the explosion. That means, the first hit will go without any broken armor**** see edit note below

I would like to know if these changes were made on purpose and if so, why they werent mentioned in the change logs. Either change the skill's description or change it back.

Comments on other changes/skills/talents

• I dont really see the point why scatter shot should reduce armor only. Make it armor and res, otherwise the effect will have a very low impact especially in group play
• as mentioned in my previous "first glimpse" review i really dislike the new dive talent. change this to some small def or off buff like +x%armor/res or +x%more conc for xx seconds or whatever
• the ranger is the only class that has no cooldown reduction ability on his exp tree right now which i see as a huge nerf. If you take away cooldown reduction on blade dance you practically eliminate any other viable builds but standard q7 for rangers
• wisdom resource talent: i'd prefer a %increase instead of an absolute value (max 20 as it is now)
• wisdom talents for 1h: I was expecting stronger talents for 1h. As it stands now, 1h setups are still far away from being as powerful as 2h. Especially the speed bonus for 1h is a joke
• Wisdom talent that trigger "on kill" (resource or cooldown reduction for 1h/2h): On kill talents/effects are rather useless, as you dont gather huge groups of mobs in dso. You have some small group of mobs and move on to the next pack. Until you reach them, these buffs are gone already. Not to mention that in a boss fight these mechanics become even more obsolete. Change these to a "on hit/on critical hit" effect or make it similar to the premium belt buff, make it last longer and possible to refresh the buff
• the group aura talents are fine, i like the choices we get
• group effects i cannot test as i lack group points and therefore cannot see the progression of these effects. if they scale well with points spent, they look fine though.
• group momentum: looks rather useless as long as i cannot trigger them on purpose. As it looks now, these effects will be "wasted" all the time since they are triggered by random attacks of their assigned skill.

/e: Concerning the EA explosion mechanic i just relaized this was changed quite easlier tho not with r208, it used to be an instant debuff some time ago. anyway, nevermind that bullet point.

 

I did some testing on the test server today.

Here are my feedback:

1. Starting with maximum skill points, I couldn't allocate all my wisdom points to the abilities I thought useful. I still had over 400 skill points left after spending everything. Perhaps some of the limits should be increased.

2. The crafted buffs such as 20% Increased Life, at first seems useful, but since it is limited for us to use only a single potion at any given time, it seems to have quite a limited use.

3. My Character had over 13000 damage, Herald Set, 38% crit, 3.0x Crit Damage, 30k Life. (Full Wisdom)
Creatures definitely seems much stronger than on live servers. I have to say, I didn't have fun. It was boring to kill monsters in Painful mode because it took too long to get them down with that setup. On Live server, such a setup would get You through Excruciating mode without a sweat.

 

I got some currency yesterday (some andermants and 10k gold) but I searched new Traders and I didn't found them.

 

my observations, as a result of the test

it is very difficult to monitor the condition of HP and mana
since the indicator itself has decreased, and these indicators are the most important in the game.
In this regard, there is a proposal - to move the icons buffs.

examples

 

The traders are in Kingshill, next to the blacksmith on the right side.

 

Found!!
Thanks

 

Of course the devs have to nerf the ranger class, that's what they do best. I mean, why not just delete the ranger class because it's so underpowered right now on TS. Some of you guys are complaining about DK being nerved big time, but wait till you see what they've done to the ranger, it's unbelievable!

I agree, the ranger's skills are hit the hardest with these changes, DKs can complain all they want about their stupid banner but no one seems to care that the ranger now has no cooldown-reducing skills, or self-healing (apart from the +10% HP with DB but that can never realistically be used to any benefit especially in PvP - what ranger uses melee in PvP?). Not to mention how the devs said that dwarfs are getting a nerf with turrets and yet now dwarfs' turrets have critical on top of extra damage that the devs gave them on TS, it's ridiculous how they reversed almost all these so-called "nerfs" for the dwarf class, and silently buff dwarves and nerf rangers at the same time. I know turrets have HP now, but it's way more HP than they were originally meant to have when it was proposed a few months ago. Plus, having crit damage means that, now, dwarves will probably dominate PvP (like cdeepal said) and I wouldn't be surprised if they deal (almost) as much damage as mages while having way more HP than mages. Trust me, I have a dwarf on TS and while other classes are struggling with PW it's a breeze for dwarves!
I hope the devs pay attention to this or they should just rename the game Dwarfensang!

 

Here is my second feedback for the newest changes:

-GENERAL:

1. Even though im using end-stage sets , gems and max wisdom, the mobs deal way to much damage and very hard to kill even in painful difficulty ,with my live server character i feel i wont be able to do normal non-pw maps.even in 5\5 party we got squashed like bugs , granted that was mod 2 but still....
   
2. I noticed the bosses also got hadered to kill .they were fine in previous build.
3. The wisdom tree is nice when its fully unlocked, adding points seemwhat slugish and slow.
4. I know some complained about the animation delay when mining\picking up map resources . however, i enjoyed it, since it gives a little sense of reality.
5. im not sure if the amount of potions per category is healty for the game,might make it look too crowded and confusing.
6. in ingredients bag it still looks not all cores got added.

- Spellweaver:

1. The changes to Frozen Sphere is a very good change, givng the spell much needed versitilaty.
   
2. The 2 points talent for Destruction -arace mastery- makes the spell relatively obsolete, i was unable to cast the spell in most of the ocasions because i usually combine it with other spells for maximum efficiency. its a unique and fun spell for SW, please consider rolling back on the talent changes.
3. Ice bolt nerfed to 30% damage again, unlike the destruction's nerf this one dont prohibit the use of the skill in a fundemental way, but still, in my opinion, 30% is simply too low.
4. The minor increase in SW base damage is too little to even make the slightest impact.

BUGS:
1- The party mangemnet window exhbit erratic behavour and not working properly.
2- Inside dungeons other teammates weapons turn invisible.
3- The game generally feels a bit laggy now.
4- The group XP multiplyer not working.

Last thoughts:

• I don't understand why the mobs\bosses got buffed. i think making things difficult to force group play is a step in the wrong direction, mostly us with weaker stats dont get allowed to join parties and we get forced to solo, with these changes we will be forced to not play anything, these changes might make strong people who usually let weaker players join, refrain from doing so.
• Even after i played for hours, group skills still feels strange and not very well defined.
• SW's still needs a way to reduce bosses armor.

best of luck with your work.

 

So after testing most things in testserver I can give my honest opinion about everything as well now.

The wisdom tree:
My honest opinion about this? It is absolutely amazing, I love it in each way, maye in the future some little things that could get changed to get the best experience out of it, but overal it is great!
Even tho the wisdom tree can't be used in PvP, it makes PvP better, Bye bye to the 1shot-kill-pvp games. I'm looking forwards to play pvp again, perhaps with a 1 handed weapon again? Oldskool DSO hell yeah

About the group talents...
These might need a rework honestly, most of them don't give enough value but even if they would stay the way they are now, I will not complain, its better then no group talents I guess?
Maybe a little hint for the PvP talent 'Tree', Lots of people would love to see some changes in their as well, I'm not going give any ideas or something because I'm not creative at all. But maybe a thing to think about?

The mobs and bosses
The way it is right now on testserver seems okay for me, once again it gives me a little flashback back in the lvl 45 period, maps and mobs were hard and nobody complained about that back then? So I don't see any problems with it now, give me some challenges .
Bosses I don't rly see a difference between liveserver and testserver...

Classes
As for a ranger, not much changes besides som small nerfs and some small new things, overall I'm happy about it and because I'm lazy Im not gonna talk about it in detail lol. (Happy that you guys haven't touched my EA that much )

Mages rly needed that frozen sphere rework, It's so satisfying to play with it now. Mages are still very weak tho but this will for sure help out farming and boss fights. Perhaps a heal thing for mage might not be bad at all and very useful.
The Ice missile does need a little bit more dmg imo
What happened to the guardian? even when I put the 3pnts talent on it dies like its nothing, even in painful, makes it useless tho, I don't want that to happen, its a good taunt skill for the mage.

Sorry dwarfs but I dont like you in general x)

Dk's are okay now, they still farm crazy fast, faster then the mage and kinda same time as ranger.
The 5pnts talent of that banner talent is like alot of people say a very seful talent, do'nt take it away from them!
Nothing more to say about it.

Last thing I want to say is about probably the woest feature in-game atm, the crafting system, its to hard and asks way 2much time from the players, besides time also resources, perhaps a little change or twist for crafting is always welcome.

Im looking forward to the update

 

that happens after mining / collecting erbs etc.


So, yesterday, after the script I tryied inf1 q1 with my SM, using red ess (21k dmg, x3.3 crit) and Q7 set...
After triggering q7 set bonus, machinegun turret was dealing ~137k dmg per hit...
Imagine a dwarf with ~35k and x4 crit

But, even tho map was easy to deal with, grimmag was impossible to kill.
His metheors were targeting turrets too, making them useless, in fact I had to retreat.
So, maybe turrets shouldn't be targettable by metheors and similiar skills...
About steam regen, there's a wisdom talent ("Compesation") that allows you to regen 20 steam if a tourret is destroyed, so it is somewhat ok...


I tried mage too and the new Ice Sphere is good. About comparing it to EA, just keep in mind it slows enemies, deals some damage while traveling and costs 40 mana (50-10) so even if it deals 350% dmg (150% less than EA) it's not underpowered compared to ranger's lv 45 skill.

 

After testing mainly SW in the test server I came to this conclusion.

Wisdom tree:

The new talents looks really nice, I am looking forward to test/ play them in the real server. It will reduce the cost of "solo" play little bit as I am playing SW and the problem is that you need constantly pots and lot of essence too(for bosses) but now I think there will be little bit more balanced game play (compared to other classes/ their progression and cost of resource) with the hp reg. talent but losing the mana crystall and thus lot of mana is not good. In the end I think SW's damage doesnt increase so much (in boss fights) because you nerf the mana attainable from the wisdom. Flat +20 isn't simply enough. Please revert this and give 1,25% per level.

Group Talents
They look interesting couldn't really test them in action tho but first glance I think it look interesting
and it makes sense to have each member in the team (even tho I think the SW got the shortest straw this time).

The mobs and bosses
I have been playing with almost full royals in my normal account and my test character... well he is not quite there yet xD
Anyway. I hope all the balancing will not affect solo play too negatively. If you scale up bosses life according to the all group talents
we have a problem, especially small servers Agathon, Tegan and Balor. There is no suitable group available some parts of the day.
So make sure that it doesn't make too much impact on the solo play, because you have to stay competive in the gaming market as well.
Just a friendly reminder that price of the 2 months deluxe you can buy new game so make sure what is the quality of game play/ price for solo play and PVE weak class like SW and last of course I hate the idea go back in Fatal lol (From Infernal 2-3).

SW talents
I think the Frozen Sphere talent is now great, you can aim it more useful. I know some people would like it to explode from contact, personally I don't like it but maybe it could be 2 points modifier ? 2 points and it will explode from contact. Problem solved

On the paper increased lightning strike damage looks nice and maybe it is what has been needed but is not somethning that I can say right now. I can see it with my normal server character. (Also losing the mana crystall negates this change)

Guardian is still pretty useless. I think it needs serious buff in defense.
This would be also helpful in boss fights.

 

.Suggestion for distributing knowledge points:

Shift + Click = +10 points
Crtl + Click = Full Points

-------------------------------------------------
.In Game:

Crtl + Click = Get Items
Alt + Click = Menu (Group, Whisper, etc.)

-------------------------------------------------
In the NPC of the "Flowers" (Kingshill), it lacked to put the rings and the items of the events (set dragan, set blood mage, karabossa, etc).


Thank you.

 

I tested a 2h DK on test server with all wisdoms, thanks to allowed us to test correctly. This new banner skill is a MEGA NERF that takes away gameplay fun when we play solo. We need that special attack speed, please put back the normal banner skill !

 

@_Baragain_ i know it's not a huge amount, and i didn't do proper math, but even with the new wisdom tree it's only like a thousand BD for mage.. what bothers me, is BP does this on top of straight up nerfing the abilities of DK while buffing the other classes and enemies, and with all that this naked damage difference is just an extra kick in the nuts as the cherry on top of the pile of 208.

 

things i dont like:

--too much auras and effects that we cant disable, 2 or 3 rangers and the whole screen turns green
--game will be too easy to play, we'll have +75% damage, +60% weapon damage, more critical impact and critical damage, more health, armor, resistances.. plus we'll have tonics, buffs, auras, essences, etc ..for me is way too much
--ranger deadly blow now heals 30% instead of 10%, im a ranger and with all of this i probably not gonna need a tank nor a group :/
--2000 wisdom points and we have to allocate them 1 by 1, we need a better way

 

thats why they increased monstrs armor hp and damage output.. game going to be more fun.. in group. rainbow play but ye. this whole screen green least your problem. lagg is going to be big issue

 

has anyone noticed any changes to the drop rate of solid cores? any slight improvement because so far i dont think they have done anything about this issue.

P.S: Would you mind stop arguing all over the class rebalancing and game balancing thread and start focusing on giving the feedback? Honestly, stop being kids. This is a feedback thread