Feedback GAME REBALANCING FEEDBACK THREAD

Discussion in 'Test Server' started by DSO Production Team, Apr 6, 2018.

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  1. Moot

    Moot Active Author

    Well this is -35% damage on smash with nothing in return since the new 5pt talent is useless in every single given situation.

    @all the walls of text about ice missiles, a skill which is not even changed on the test server.. please stop spamming the feedback thread and go to the spellweaver forum for discussions about your prefered item build...


    As for feedback, the monsters on the test server are still way overtuned.. With the resources we got I built my characters to a level where they could solo inf1-2 with ease on the production server, but I struggled with excruciating on the test server, even though i had maxed out wisdom tree, which we obviously won't have access to on the live servers. Oh yeah and I'm still asking for some DK buffs, since even on the test server the monster buffs affected me as a dk the most, while I could just avoid and hit from far away with my SW and RA, and still farm quite nicely (can't say jack about SM, because I didn't have one created before the script went down so i can't max one)
     
    Zigan and Phyrix like this.
  2. AmarWilrick

    AmarWilrick Forum Pro

    Suggestions for Dwarf class :
    now the main skill (turrets is destroyable) ,BP need to make dwarf more playable without turrets.
    - Make Heavy Shoot with steam cost and remove the couldown.
    - In order to make bombs and oïl skills useful ,need to make them as launchers (bomb & oïl launchers )
    - Let's be honnest, removing mana regeneration from Tactical turrets was a big mistake,DPS classes must have this skill (mage have teleportation that restore his mana,Ranger have adrenaline, dwarf have... ? )

    Please constructif feedbacks and no hate for dwarf class, you need to understand that dwarf don't have skills to fight solo with moving boss.
    THANKS.
    Sorry if my English is bad, not my natif language :)
     
    allcoss and os_boris like this.
  3. ULTRAPEINLICH

    ULTRAPEINLICH Forum Duke

    I'm with @AmarWilrick here, the dwarf seems to be the class with the most useless skills at the moment (jack-in-the-box, tactical turrets became obsolete, bombs still rather useless with static attack speed assigned and so on...)
    However, without having tested this thoroughly as I haven't spent much time on ts yet, I am pretty sure that turret's dmg for dwarfs is totally off at the moment and deal like for a factor of x2.6-x3 too much damage (speaking about machine gun turrets). And they still seem to be affected by attack speed, state this in the description finally or just remove it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
    lovatic66 and os_boris like this.
  4. darkwarss

    darkwarss Forum Apprentice

    This will be a long one. Sorry for any grammar typos - I am in a hurry :D
    Lets me first start with a few issues that I came across with:
    - I couldn't use some cores to craft specific items (I was trying to level up a unique item with a legendary one. Don't know if this is an issue but no one has said anything)
    - Some cores didn't get transferred to the new bag slots
    - When you craft an item the category under you were crafting resets - I lost a few gold line items with this (not an issue, but really bad if you are not paying attention)

    Feedback about the new stuff:

    1.Group Talents - Couldn't really test much of it because I don't have a lot of talent points, but I can say that strong group talents will be needed to compensate the stronger mobs. By the way we will need a lot more skills like the one that SM has (Steam Conductor) where you are able to heal your group members that are nearby. This is really useful while fighting smaller mobs, it doesn't really work that well for bosses.

    2.New Wisdom Talents - One word. A M A Z I N G. I saw some other player's reviews and they were not so nice but... Its really amazing how much you can customize your character now, I hope other people understand this - it's not a nerf to the classes, its really powerful if you find the right way to combine the items-talents ratio. One thing I personally didn't like was that the "Travel Metris" talents provided only movement speed in hubs :(. Other than that I liked every single other talents.

    3.Mob Balancing - I'd guess it was necessary because of the characters becoming too powerful with the new talents, but still.. I was able to solo infernal 3 with a not-so-strong character (11k damage, dwarf of course:D). The thing is tho.. while dwarfs can solo A LOT of the difficulties - other classes can't. Yes you could do something with the other ranged classes like run around and poke the mobs while you kill them but dwarfs are a bit broken.. (With a few buffs from the shop I was able to do more than 100k damage per second and this is from the turrets, so it can be infinite amount of time, might be needed tho since dwarfs can be quite squishy :)). I can see the DK's being decent because of their sustain of HP, but in one sentence.. Classes need balancing and you guys could think about giving bonus stats if the player is solo running the dungeon. On the other hand I can say that damage from the mobs was fine, yes, almost everything in infernal 3 one shotted me (even tho im not even close to strong) but you can expect it because of the high rewards.

    EDIT: I forgot something - some buffs can pump the critical hit rate up to 80% on infernal 3 easily on lower end characters, which will be alright if the buffs, elixirs and etc.. are hard to make.

    4.Classes:

    (said a lot in the "Mob Balancing" topic, so that's why there is not so much information here)

    4.1 Dragonknights - Can't really say much other than them having ~550k HP is not funny. Even tho I have some DK's I don't play the class so, that's about it. Also whatever the others are saying the reducing in the attack speed from the flag skill was needed, I'd guess most of us here saw the video of the DK soloing some infernal 3 in a 14-15 seconds. ;)

    4.2 Spellweavers - I really liked the rework of the "Frozen Sphere". It's a bit harder to hit now, but if you're in a group I don't think it will be a problem. I didn't really play a lot with this class a lot so that's what I can say about it.


    4.3 Rangers - Played a bit - didn't see a big difference. (maybe there is, I just didn't play a lot :))


    4.3 Steam Mechanicus - Yikes. The "Machine Gun Turret" now dealing critical damage is really good, most of the things regarding it I already said above but..its quite powerful :D. Now one thing I didn't like was that the "Tactical Turret" not giving steam back. I'd guess this is for anti-abusing of the machine gun and the new "Steam Conductor" healing power, which im fine with since the both skills got buffed. Now instead of full damage item builds, players will need to find new creative ways for maximum damage output which is a great thing. (New item sets for dwarfs? :p)


    5.User Interface:


    It's alright I guess. Needed the extra potion slots because of the buffs and etc.. but a note to the team - at the group essence indicator, instead of hovering over to see what's the essence, just change the background shining thingy to the color of the essence that the player is using.
    Another thing.. The workbench and the shop talent buttons need a shortcut at the main action bar.


    Sorry if I forgot to cover something.
    Anyways, wish you guys fun at testing! ;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  5. MiSi1234

    MiSi1234 Someday Author

    The damage for red turrets seem to be bugged indeed, and not a little bit.
    lets start with how it is on the Live Server and look at the damage calculation as it is right now:
    base dmg * attack speed * 1.75 * 0.5 / 3 = the damage value you see from the turret(dmg/tick)
    [​IMG]
    360*1.75*0.5/3 = 105 dmg/tick

    if we select the 5 point talent which increases the damage by 33% it'll be as follow:
    base dmg * attack speed * 1.75 * 1.33 * 0.5 / 3 = the dmg/tick
    [​IMG]
    360*1.75*1.33*0.5/3 = 139.65 dmg/tick
    So as we can see this is correctly being calculated on Live Server.


    Let's now take a look at Test Server.
    First we'll have to calculate the new armor/resistance values for the monsters since they seem to have changed.
    On Live server these values are 50% armor, 50% resistance.
    The calculation for Quick Shot with the 5 points talent on Live server would look like this:
    base dmg * 0.66 * 0.5 = damage amount
    Though using this calculation on Test Server doesn't seem to work:
    [​IMG]
    425*0.66*0.5 = 140.25

    Using the damage of the hit, my base damage and the skill's damage we can calculate the fire res for this particular mob
    125 / (425 * 0.66) = 0.445632799
    Now we know the resistance value of this mob got increased to ~55.5%, so we can use 0.446 for the further calculations.
    Looking at the reworked description of red turret, the calculation for the dmg would be something like:
    base dmg * attack speed * 1.25 * 0.446 / 3 = dmg/tick
    [​IMG]
    425*1.25*0.446/3 = 78.98 dmg/tick

    and this would be with the 5 points talent (50% increased damage)
    base dmg * attack speed * 1.25 * 1.5 * 0.446 / 3 = dmg/tick
    [​IMG]
    425*1.25*1.5*0.446/3 = 118.469 dmg/tick

    Conclusion / TL;DR
    So what's going wrong here? it's actually quite simple... the turret dmg just isn't being divided by 3 anymore, making the dmg/tick 3 times as high as it should be.
    Take 1 of the last calculations, remove the "/3" and you'll get the dmg shown in the pictures ^^

    Many thanks to @ULTRAPEINLICH for helping me getting the calculations correct and sorry to the mods if this is posted in the wrong topic, I wasn't sure if this was too long for the Dwarf Feedback thread ^^

    - Michelle
     
    cdeepal, darkwarss and ULTRAPEINLICH like this.
  6. cdeepal

    cdeepal Forum Baron

    This is simply crazy.

    Previously a top end Dwarf (30k damage, 2.49 attack speed) was able to do:
    30,000 x 1.75 (base damage factor) x 3 (from attack speed multiplier) x 2 (from 2 turrets)
    = 315 K damage per second

    Now they can do:
    30,000 x 1.25 (base damage factor) x 3 (number of hits per second) x 3 (from attack speed multiplier) x 2 (from 2 turrets) x 4 (from Crit Damage factor)
    = 2.7 million damage per second

    I guess, the only viable class to play after the update would be Dwarf.
     
  7. KingsGambit

    KingsGambit Forum Expert

    I'm Pole and i prefer stick to my origin language forum so sorry for mistakes. Nevertheless when i saw your post I thought I should clarify why this happened.

    First of all the armor/resistence modification comes probably from painful mod as every step now receives extra 10% armor and resistence.

    Secondly I think that bug comes from older formula on test server which was giving machine guns 75% dmg per second with gun inheriting 50% of your dmg as primary stat (not stated in skill description). For that reason old formula was modified and part/3 (which comes from number of attacks) was removed so the final damage was base dmg * attack speed * 0.75 * 0.5 *0.5. Now they changed it to 125% and removed inherit thing (just plain 100%) but they didn't implemented formula from official servers and left test server formula which was made for 0,75*0,5 dmg while now is 1,25 dmg.

    It's not bug per se but wrong formula pick up. They will implement correct of those 2 and everything will be as you nicely stated in your post :)

    Best wishes

    Well it will be divided by 3 when good formula is used but i agree turret dmg with 125% and old formula is somewhat too high when you can have crit from them.
    I think that simple 100% could be fine, maybe 75% as was but without 50% inherition penalty. Now (after fix) dwarfs will gain 5/7 of official server dmg but with crit possibility... It's pretty high boost in my opinion.
    100% would be on other hand 4/7 and 75% 3/7 for added crit...
    Feels better.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  8. ldso

    ldso Forum Greenhorn

    This is not true, unfortunately (regarding what you stated about ice missiles not being changed), although it may have been preferable to some if it was. The Ice Missile skill was indeed changed on the test server, which necessitated the conversation on the performance/design of ice missile along with its stated frost effects, particularly in comparison with equivalent skills in other classes that still work against bosses - which, as user FIvit972 very appropriately pointed out - is a large issue of class inequity.

    Similarly, the same relevance also applies to the other spellweaver aspects discussed in this thread (i.e. lightning strike, mana, pw sets that utilize those changed skills, etc.) as they were also affected in the test server. It seems that posters from all classes have discussed build-specific but relevant topics as well, due to the nature of assessing character-specific skills/traits that have been changed in the test server.

    However, I do hear your sentiment - preference for a certain 'build' or skill set can certainly cloud judgment regarding skill-based changes. I believe that is why several posters on here have held user Heror accountable for being far too overwhelmingly biased to his/her own build (and posting untrue or skewed misconceptions and misinformation), which prevents him/her from seeing the serious flaws in the latest version of ice missile/frost.

    Very well-said. Initially, I had not brought this up yet because I do view all the classes equally and did not wish to sound otherwise in my first post on this topic. However, this is indeed a large instance of class inequity that cannot be ignored.


    Yes, I did see the overpowering bias present as well, unfortunately.



    Very true - makes one wonder even further about DSO changing the ice missiles/frost in general on the test server.


    -------------------------

    I may follow up with a more detailed reply to user Heror through another post.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
  9. Nostradamus88

    Nostradamus88 Active Author

    Hi all mates! :) I need a help from players who can test new skills of spellweaver. I would like to know, before giving my feedback in the right topic, if the ability of reducing cooldown from singularity is always the same. The new description says -0,5% but i cannot understand it. To make things clear: now i can spell meteor, control mind+singularity+teleport, some big dmg skill, teleport, other big dmg skill and then repeat the sequence. So at the moment, in the singularity, meteor needs just 8-9 seconds to be ready again. Are this things always the same? Thank you for helping.
     
  10. FlVit972

    FlVit972 Forum Greenhorn

    There is no changes with singularity, it's the same thing than live server ;)
     
  11. Paavelsons

    Paavelsons Regular

    How i supose to test new wisdom. wich is on testserver. throw us some low tier without crafting gear is very weird. i can allocate wisdom points to see what is what. and play i mean die on every difficulty pw gives. to test how i die. cant kill fast enough to see how good wisdom can be..
    I dont ask nothing. im just saying.. to test on testserver weak character going to be step back wich devs ask from me. feedback. huh
    copy my live server char to testserver and i give you full review what is what and what should not to be like that or something.


    testserver character (both q7 set) VS Liveserver character
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    i start with this change
    [​IMG]
    Currently there is so called 80% max so we need to hover how% will be on infernal modes, but why ?
    imagine how easy would be to say people when they ask you "whats your crit" but right now is you need to stop to hover mouse to crit or armor % to see what they give on inf modes what ever they ask.

    Increase % to 100% and change game whole then because right now you guys have chance to do so. later on will be harder than ever because players still getting used to new things like this new wisdom tree.
    400% crit damage cap, huh change this one to 500% then 1h have more chance to compete against q7 set
    jumping here to 1h builds..

    look at this and thats with q7 set 2 buffs. imagine with 1h longbow. unlimited ea for 2 hours. but its fair. no issues here. 1h players can survive better than q7 set users with upcoming content. i like it.. considering to switch back to 1h build.
    [​IMG]
    now i move to buffs wich is kinda funny. we can use only 2 buffs at once
    I hope devs make this buff usage bit better. theres issue with it.. i buyed them all. and i didnt knw im going to lose active buff.
    there should be confirmation box to you want to change current boost/buff rarity I II III or info on buff itself when using it.

    crafting materials on map wich needs to be collected. collecting time should be removed . it drops ground and you pick it. like on varholm bushes. or whatever autocollect should work fine afterall.

    But yeah q7setsang . there going to be big riot when you guys break it down or nerf. q7 set is best because its great :D
    Bring back 3 seconds ea for rangers and other classes aswell. and pvp should be as it is. i belive pvp tree going to get similiar tree as wisdom. well see..
    ////////edit//////

    here is this. again with points.. theres so many points . let us take out coin drop points and put them to where we want . stop this limitation already please.
    so that we could put our earned points where we want. decpite of limits of wisdom box. like 24 24 24 not 24 24 12
    movement speed on hubs. no need. easyer wouuld have been 9.9 stats speed buuts . but only few have those. and guys are going to ballance pvp :D no you cant. Its not fair to newplayers because old players have old stats. and newcomers are like meat in pvp for them. think about it. put them back old stats drop gear. etc
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]
    ///////edit//////
    Thanks for good job you drakensang team making.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  12. Alex_Thor

    Alex_Thor Active Author

    I see on Ts craft of essences, 750 blue >>> 250 pink.
    750 pink >>> 250 red.
    I like this craft, but is unfair this ammount 3 vs 1 :(
    And old essences (all who have on live server) cannot craft :( that is bad.

    suggestion: Can you make craft 2 vs 1 for all blue essences?
     
  13. -cymerianin-

    -cymerianin- Forum Apprentice

    Not giving 100% to bleeding in the skill of bloody cuts will be the biggest BP mistake.
    It is a skill that supports teams.
    This skill is not used in the arena where the set of q7 reigns
    and a blow of anger
    Taking so much bleeding we move the set from q4 to the side track.
    Like, support for the team by a knight playing on a two-handed weapon.
    And we force ourselves to the role of the shield, pressing only one skill - a battle craze. Sipping tea and yawning from boredom
     
  14. Rhysingstar

    Rhysingstar Forum Ambassador

    There seems to be a common theme that the Q7 set is preferred by design and many of us would like to see other sets get a boost to allow players the opportunity to have different builds.

    That doesn't mean nerf the Q7, just boost some others and/or create new ones so we have options for our builds.
     
  15. semen470

    semen470 Padavan

    What does this mean ? Are the essences we currently have on live server not craftable with this new crafting system ?
    How do you know that ?
     
  16. HellenicMacedonian

    HellenicMacedonian Active Author

    Very useful group talents:

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Shiro

    Shiro Padavan

    I think he means that the ess you have before r208 are not compatible with crafting recipes, like for DtU (Defeat the Undefetables) there was a version o Realm Path to Circus Monstrorum that couldn't be put in the same slot as the current ones.
     
  18. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    That means that the game is heavily bugged on TS.
    Nothing is working as it should ... you can't even craft a unique item.
     
    DocWhisky, EhtovK and darkwarss like this.
  19. cdeepal

    cdeepal Forum Baron

    I don't like the idea that the wisdom traits have certain limits.
    For example, Attack area has a limit of 80, but maximum 50 can be allocated for increasing damage at the expense of 3 wisdom points each.

    My proposal is as follows:

    1. Remove the area limits. Let us chose if we want to allocate all our points in one area or not. This will lead to interesting builds.
    2. Make the subsequent increments in the same category more expensive than the initial increments.
    For example: First 10 increments to Damage, would need only 2 points each for a total of 20 wisdom
    From 11-20, need 3 points each for a total of 30 points.
    From 21-30, need 4 points each
    From 31-40, need 5 points each
    From 41-50, need 6 points each
    Add 20 more points for a total of 70 points, but
    51-60, need 7 points each
    61-70, need 8 points each

    Similarly for all categories.
     
  20. semen470

    semen470 Padavan

    Thanks for clarifying this issue!
     
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