Suggestion General revamp, economy changes

Discussion in 'Creative Corner' started by ΣMiwel, Sep 7, 2019.

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Do you want the proposed changes to be implemented?

  1. Yes!

  2. No!

  1. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Forum Pro

    Actually, it's you and your 60k friends (not a single one present here) complaining.
    I'm just reflecting your ... flawed, to put it lightly, understanding of each class.

    Also, we managed to debunk this comparison video already, twice on discord and people already managed to point out its flaws and how unfair it is in here as well.

    DK should never be compared to full-on DPS classes - the reason is half of your experience tree is focused on self mitigation and self-healing + lv 50 which gave another DPS skill to DPS classes and ... taunt with healing to DK.

    You can tell me "but you cant tell me what DK is supposed to be", you can resist as much as you want. DKs were clearly designed to tank the damage.

    They were able to keep the aggro (and survive) through DPS during 1h era. They were able to solo bosses in the early 2h era (due to self-healing) and that's when DKs started lagging behind. Since mid lv 45 nothing changed regarding DKs besides adding q7 that made you "smash faster" (and you were actually out damaging SWs for quite a while due to SWs having 150 or 200 mana).

    SW DPS or their value during boss fights was memed so hard but you for some reason missed that. Pity.

    SW DPS spiked cause of mana tonic, regen mana pots, and 1s pots introduction - remove that and SWs deal less damage than any class (yes, even DK).

    Even funnier thing is people dare to compare RA, who are "neutral" on every boss, to SW that was killing vulnerable boss meaning that mage was dealing almost 50% more damage than on neutral boss. Their 1:04 time would be 1:32 on a neutral boss and 2:26 on a resistant boss.

    AND THAT'S WHILE USING Q7 SWAPPING AND BEST SW WEAPON (giving about 5k more dmg and 50% attack speed).

    Considering Q7 bonus is equal to about x1.25 damage multiplier for maxed chars:
    - vulnerable boss time: 1:20
    - neutral boss time: 1:55
    - resistant boss time: 3:03

    Also, I'd like to point out SW was DPSing constantly due to guardian tanking while RA had to sometimes stop their DPS to dodge stuff or reposition - all that while having 23s longer kill time than SW on vulnerable bosses with q7 swap. I'm not even going to mention SM and how completely and utterly broken their DPS output on bosses is.

    SW, the only class that has to deal with elemental affinity - that's the reason why testing its DPS out is HARD in comparison to others.

    Bloodmoon is fs focused, Q4 is ls focused and Q7 is (supposed to be) fireball focused.
    Whatever build you chose you're going to be useless on 3 bosses:

    Bloodmoon - Heredur, Sigris, Mortis.
    Q4 - Bearach, Sigris, Mortis.
    Q7 - Grimmag, Herald, Mortis.

    This alone is why it's outrageus to spill baseless arguments like yours.

    Being completely useless on 3 of the bosses isn't compensated by dealing 42,5% more damage (physical DPS is 40% and magic DPS is 57%) to 2 bosses that are vulnerable to that element + Khalys is just a nightmare for SW cause their DPS strat (aka building a ton of mana and abusing pots) isn't working there. That's 4 bosses on which SW is completely useless - depending entirely on their set up. Yes, SW can swap from FS to LS on Heredur for example (but BM SW will be much less efficient on LS than Q4 SW) making them less useless in comparison to FS SW but still useless in comparison to other proper DPS classes.

    This is how SW was before pots, before mana tonic - Khalys but on every boss aka completely useless in comparison to others. All other classes are fine since they have free spam on Q7 or conditional free spam (banner).

    It's already unfair I have to abuse pots and spend my hard-earned gold and abuse "bugs" just to be able to deal (less) damage than those who don't and keep their gold for more important things. I won't sit here patiently reading through you talking in here about "nerfing mages" or "nerfing pots" when only because of pots and mana tonic SWs were able to CATCH UP (and still be either 3rd or 4th) to others.

    That's how ridiculous, baseless and pointless your, and others who preach this kind of ideology, messages are.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
    Reikanin and rcch like this.
  2. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Forum Pro

    Nice but if I need a bedtime story I can just use youtube for that.

    I can have more than 800 - on 1h, with uncrafted grimmag torso, 2 rings which don't drop anymore, don't have base stats and cant be crafted, old Dragan set but that doesn't make a good build that is better than 400 which SWs have (which, you may not be able to reach due to items differences). RA, who are the only ones that profit from more concentration to some extent, have 15% concentration cost reduction which is as good as 60 or 70 mana SWs get from q1 torso.
    Says the SM who told me in other thread that SM is not broken and isn't dealing 5000% true DPS in comparison to other classes dealing +/- 1000-1500%.



    Yeah, getting one shot at inf 4 - beyond broken :D


    Using "Q7 swapping" as an argument is the dumbest thing I ever read. This is an unintended interaction and will get eventually fixed.
    Last edited by moderator: Sep 12, 2019
  3. elitecrew1031

    elitecrew1031 Regular

    And let's transform it to actual minutes and seconds comparing mage and dwarf in the current video
    3 seconds to be exact!!! 5000% true DPS op ?(Q7+Q8 dwarfs op must be nerf let's make 6 more pages full of rant) and if we take away 15 seconds because of the shrooms the mage will be exatcly 12 seconds faster then the dwarf ? The fact you are able to outrun my class no matter how ''broken'' my class is makes you even more broken right ?
    There is a big diffrence between SHOULD and MUST you know? Don't worry BP will never hurt their precious mages as they have already shown to the whole community or you forgot ?
    Just like in other games Like LoL mages are safe, dont cost a lot of money to build, broken without reason, 0 counter play. and everyone that denies it is low elo player that don't understand how the game works
    If you have the opportunity to do something while others can't makes it broken and unfair
    You and every other mage in this forum are delusional because you refuse to admit or maybe you are blind to see the truth about your ''weak'' class
    Tell me more about how broken dwarfs are please
    Tell me more about how broken rangers are 2 seconds herald buff + rng reset
    Tell me again about how Dk should depent on other classes and they MUST (not should) stick to 1h build because this is the only way they can be usefull right
    I'll never forget a mage in this forum saying that mage is supposed to be the fastest class with the highest DPS
    Learn the game thanks
  4. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Forum Pro

    The fact SM is 14s faster (boss) than SW while SW is dealing 50% more damage than they are supposed to just proves what I said.
    Additionally SW dealt more damage to monsters as well since q2 is heavily poison focused and as you (should) know poison is vulnerable to ice.

    Keep blindly following your false prophets.

    How about q1 or q7 comparison where both SW and SM deal neutral damage?
    Nah, let's not do that - that would make too much sense.

    OR maybe q5 or q6 comparison so we switcheroo SW bonus for SW crippling debuff for a change? :D

    I'm not even gonna elaborate more - I already debunked that video.
    I already did ;)
    Oh no, people have to be dependant on others in a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAME. HORRIBLE!

    Parallel Worlds were so hard to solo nobody was ever thinking about it.
    The same goes for bosses (PWs > non PW boss).

    This guy had to fight for almost 12 minutes with Sigrismarr on 2h weapon and red essence.
    I vaguely remember Sigris taking about 10m as 5 man group on green ess (obviously with a tank).

    This is what years of balancing the game around the toxic idea of "soloing" results in - people are isolated, rarely group and only when they profit from it.
    Years of supporting "everything should be soloable" ideology is why the game suffers and people like you who share this kind of thought process exist.

    But I guess this is a simple case of "He who sows the wind reaps the storm".

    Invalidating players who actually want to play tank cause rarely anybody wants them in their group since they are considered "inconvenient convenience" is okay for you.

    Invalidating 2h DKs is not ok.
    Invalidating tanks is fine.

    Look! What a nice hypocrisy right here :rolleyes:
    Your own arguments are a double-edged sword.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  5. Phyrix

    Phyrix Count Count

    EDIT- Off-topic

    EDIT - Off-topic

    Anyways like I said before, this whole economy revamp and game reset will not work.
    The legendary streamer dks will not return to dso and making mages the flagship of an mmo arpg is kind of pointless.
    By the way:

    EDIT - Off-topic
    Last edited by moderator: Sep 12, 2019
  6. Phyrix

    Phyrix Count Count

    EDIT - off-topic

    I told you the crit cloaks inhibit resist even more...
    And a dk needs resist to be able to do that.
    Furthermore your words was, why would you want to be able to do that?
    And a dk has to be able to do that to fast kill.

    EDIT - Off-topic
    Last edited by moderator: Sep 12, 2019
  7. heror

    heror Forum Baron

    Personal atacks , have no place on this forum , get a room both of u , otherwise you look like kids. Discord is discord , leave that there! Stay salty in your realm.

    Edit: One should complain when their achieve the same level of stats , if u cant get there , let the actuall engamers to speak, otherwise you look like a secretary who hasnt learned her facts
    .RakshaRanja. and dkarl like this.
  8. Phyrix

    Phyrix Count Count

    smash rage attack grounbreaker repeat no faster map farming than a q4 dk
    Well you didnt even know how q4 works for dks till Sunday.
    Yes yes I know q4 dks like me use rs and bws mostly, what you dont get is that I can use all the attacks a q7 dk uses, except when at a boss, in 10 seconds I dont need to slow down my damage during banner of war, the reason is I tap once with rageful swing then smash
    Now when you look at the amount of smashes a q7 dk gets in 10 seconds of bow he can refill his buff twice and on top of that has to cd his buff in that time frame.
    so with 3.63 attack speed I do roughly close to 40 smashes in 10 seconds. <- At 290% base
    A q7 dk does depending on his speed and how end game he is 32-34?
    yes they are more efficient at bosses due to them reducing cooldown while pushing for the next damage buff and in that time I do not get a buff.
    Which makes a q7 dk what? slightly more efficient at bosses.
    But let me take my dk to max first...
    You yourself said no q4 dk has done the 3.63 attack speed thing yet.
    The thing is though 3.63 is so easily reachable with cloaks nowadays.
    Now, I keep telling you that q7 dks are the ones complaining and telling me how they struggle.
    And you tell me how amazing q7 is for damage, and yes its great with smash.
    But let us just reflect on what I showed on Sunday with rageful swing doing 125% base once an enemy bleeds.
    I did establish with my 3.83 critical damage and 55k damage on pinks that my rageful swing hits will be 150k.
    However take this into consideration for a second
    5 mobs each taking 125% base per hit at 3.3 attacks per second.
    Heck I just used 3 attacks per second in the calculation and I got 475% base per foe and 5 foes minus the first hit of course which is only 100% base.
    So more accurately it is 350% base per foe per second x 5 = 1750% base in a broader array hitting multiple targets.
    Now should I feel the need to revert to smash and I do 3 smashes per second I do 870% base per second per foe.
    Someone actually stipulated that q7 is useless at the moment for mages.
    It is quite the opposite and the same goes for q4, the thing is currently mages can reach 3.63 too without bloodrune, this means that bloodrune itself is not BiS anymore.
    Anyways my set that I designed = Awesome -_-
    you were also the one to point out that 25% skill damage and 25% skill attack speed is not enough, but it is.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  9. elitecrew1031

    elitecrew1031 Regular

    No no no dont try to escape 1 of the glorious mages in this forum said that his mage with 60k+ dmg can be easily outruned by dwarf with 45k dmg and in the current video that was posted we can see that everyone have the same Battle Power and still the mage outrun the dwarf with 12 seconds how is this even possible after we are so broken ?!?
    Tell me how often you teleport to Bosses compared to how often you do full map + boss ? Im sure it's the second option so 80% of the game you are superior compared to 20%
    You are right the mage in the current video can do up to 200% dmg (if you know what i mean ;) ;) ;) )
    Im sure on q1/q7 will be the same because ice sphere counters fire as long as i know. And still by the time I arrive 1/3 of the boss hp will be gone .
    You are not only refusing to admit but you are also arrogant because you want every other class to kneel down and you want to be superior (and here comes the irony of being already superior)
    Im sorry if you got carried but i've never got carried i built my character by myself i was not dependant on anyone

    EDIT - Off-topic
    Last edited by moderator: Sep 12, 2019
  10. Sunlight

    Sunlight User

    Hey there,

    This pretty much synthesizes what I wanted to say.
    This is not Discord and discord rules are not applied here. If you want to post any suggestion, feel free to open a thread.
    Stop making use of personal attacks to present your point of view.
    This thread has become more a balance-class thread, which was not only the main goal - can you please comment on the specific changes proposed?
    Some posts were totally or partially deleted. Sanctions applied. If comments that are not fully connected with the purpose of this thread continue, the thread will be closed.
  11. Phyrix

    Phyrix Count Count

    Noted and apologies, let me also rectify that by making a thread in general
  12. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Ambassador

    Partially my fault, as I gave in and almost helped Phyrix hijack my own thread.

    So, to provide a direction to the original purpose of the thread, I think that my proposed (complex, yes) solution would fix a few of problems, like indefinetly piling up crafting materials in the inventory (storing good lines but being unable to craft them, keeping tons of crappy items for the 3rd and 4th slot only to use them up for nothing, etc.).
    So far I have seen nobody providing any arguments why what I suggested would not work - except for "I don't like it because reasons" or "I have managed to craft my equipment while it is hard, so it should never be easier nor more consistent".
    .RakshaRanja. and rcch like this.
  13. oOKellueHazeOo

    oOKellueHazeOo Regular

    I slightly agree mostly because i find this game completely dog crap because of how grindy and tedious it is, a revamp would be nice and refreshing and could give older players an incentive to come back and play
  14. Phyrix

    Phyrix Count Count

    Maybe it wont be so bad but people will run out of things to do a lot faster
    so let me get this straight
    More platinum lines
    and lower base values is your answer?
    I would have thought the opposite to be true
    allowing for even up to t10 as it would inevitably go but remove plat lines as it overcreeps the whole game combined with blue royals etc
    and what will one do on normal?
    The base damage and hp of those mobs are so low, plus you have to take sub lvl55 players into consideration
    So why break the whole inf3 desert thing anyways as it spawns better lines more pinks aka more gold.
    first boost the under dog classes
    then maybe rebalance the sets
    Or maybe just increase the gem droprate in general allowing for a player to reach full royals within 6 months of reaching end game
    And what will you do with said sapphires?
    Firstly cloaks can now be crafted with 4x speed
    Secondly max runes have 20% each
    How will this allow for more player diversity if max breakpoint could be reached?
    Basically the only thing this will allow for is for new jewels of coalescence to be crafted with speed.
    You also forget that crit based cloaks like herald for example allows for adornment to be crafted 2/2
    be that speed or critical damage. or 2/1/1 for that matter
    It will not cause a lot of diversity even if you think so
    Players will select BiS based on the unique values of the tiers
    This should have been done instead of the insane base hp bosses have now on inf4
    are you bored?
    So you asked why I said no and now you can see why
    People will rush farm whether it is fatal or infernal 55
    The reason is simple, they want to get their builds done, and they want to get the needed ingredients to get their builds done.
    What we actually need is 3 week long events every month of the year
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  15. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Ambassador

    I'm not talking about rushing modes. I'm talking about quitting the game altogether because of seeing too many modes different only by name and monster statistics and no real quick progress through them.
    .RakshaRanja. likes this.
  16. sargon234

    sargon234 Commander of the Forum

    i would advocate more mob diversity in higher difficulty, which is something that it seen on q7 and q8, although too limited
  17. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Ambassador

    Yeah, they could do it. Their art department is visibly ahead with work. I'm not joking, so far the art department is really doing a good work - they could create some mobs to put on higher difficulties... skills could by recycled with new graphics.

    Of course it would be just a nice addition and not game breaking thing, but still...