How many years do you need??

Discussion in 'PvP (Player vs. Player)' started by LyLyh, Jan 4, 2020.

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  1. LyLyh

    LyLyh Forum Apprentice

    to realize, that it needs rebalancing????
    I play with a spellweaver, and guess what - I don't have any chance to increase my speed walking, I have only one debuff, because my frost nowa doesn't work when I am in a stun and that's mean too I have only one stun - my frost wind!! We don't have any regeneration too! So have you ever think about PvP skills in 1in1!!! Have you ever think about those EDIT??? This arena is total EDIT! I hope to see some kind of logical thoughts before I get retired after 20 years!
    I think you should play more often 1in1!!! I am really pissed off of all this EDIT!
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2020
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  2. RivenAndIreliaWaifus

    RivenAndIreliaWaifus Forum Apprentice

    when you get exp, you can use the points to give buffs to your abilities. Just press S to open the page. The first page is for ability buffs, the second one is for wisdom points (wisdom buffs doesn't work in pvp).
    The buffs to the abilities are really important and strong. The frost nova, just as the teleport, both has a 3 points ability which allows you to free yourself from stuns and debuffs, so with frost nova you can free yourself and even apply the stun, and with the teleport you can run away when u get stunned.
    For movement speed, there are some unique items you get sometimes. Regional unique boots or event unique boots which has already bonus mov. speed. You can also use the crafting table to get the mov. speed on extraordinary or leggendary boots, just need a bit of luck.
    Also, the frost wind can stun if you place 3 points on its buff. Any ability based on ice damage, automatically slows movement speed by 50% and 15% attack speed to the enemy. To regen you have the magic shot, the first ability u get in the game, which the 5 points buff allows you to regen 10% of your health points when you kill something. Just give a look to that page, read the buffs and decide what is better to give the points to.
    Ah, just saying, spellweavers are almost the strongest in the game, after the steam mechanikus, but if you don't use the buffs, it's normal that you get destroyed man.
     
    Athiae likes this.
  3. DreamWill

    DreamWill Forum Expert

    Nice you want to help and give advices, but on pvp not only wisdom, but all enchantments and unique effects don't work.
    atm the strongest class in pvp, because the lack of resistance values;) so it's better for you if you don't ask a rebalance.
    only one: teleport +25% movemente speed for 1 sec, yes it's pretty useless, but you have too many things to slow others.
    why? 3p talent does exactly this: antistun. do you used it? it doesn't work only inside tesla because it's almost permastun (with a chance, if you are unlucky)
    really it's the ONLY thing you haven't with the increasing of travel speed: you have ranged attacks, the best mana regeneration, the best AoE skills, the highest dmg (lack of res values), the strongest debuffs, the strongest stuns, the best summon and the strongest and most complete skill ever exist in the game (singularity).
    The game has the 8th anniversary last august, how did you play 20 years?
    yes, but for other reasons: everyone say it's full of cheaters and whatever you want: are you sure you haven't met them?
     
  4. LyLyh

    LyLyh Forum Apprentice

    I play this game since 2013. It's OK now? And the frost nowa doesn't work correctly. Which is your class??? - probably not a spellweaver ;)
    I play enough PvP to be sure what I am talking about..


    --- MERGED ---


    Are you sure you play PvP? :D Have you ever played it at all?
     
    Last edited by moderator: Jan 24, 2020
  5. vampiro

    vampiro Someday Author

    A mage complaining about PvP, specially duels, when mage is the most benefited and op class there is... kind of weird.
     
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  6. Xerustes

    Xerustes Junior Expert

    Your opinion, Not shared by everyone ;)

    The class with fewest movement skills, no passiv healing and its most damage on a slow flying Sphäre is OP in 1v1. :rolleyes:

    It might be if your way of fighting is just to go, face each other and shoot out without any Movement :D

    Otherwise classes that heal and have Movement skills just need to injure you, keep away and heal, to Run you to Death in exhaust.

    It is Not that a Mage has no Chance or no way to react on this, but the class is surely not OP in 1v1 cause of elementary damage.
     
  7. vampiro

    vampiro Someday Author

    The hugest skills, the hugest stuns, the highest damage and a singu being a plus stun+insta death slowing your opponent movement and attack speed with each hit in a small map is not enough for some mage players... that doesnt mean mage is not the best class, just means that some players need more than the best class to win.
     
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  8. Xerustes

    Xerustes Junior Expert

    Not by skill, as a marked Explo Deals more.
    Only by the fact, that resistance is low in PvP, but still a sphere is more a Kind of close combat skill, than for ranged attacks.

    Less Stuns than a Dragon Knight, one connected to the skill to free oneself and ranged to the Spot the Mage stands.

    Everyone that has a Bit of skill can avoid or get out. Other than oil from Dwarfs that keeps slowing after you left it and can be thrown several times. A singu that is Not used for camping is gone for long.
    A singu you Camp in makes an imobile class even more stuck to the place.

    slowing by Ice missile that Deals 'huge' damage :D
    Rangers can slow you down as well, while beeing faster, marking you with that as well.
    Dragon Knight have immunity they can combine with increased running Speed.
    Bleeding skill slows you down as well.
    Did i already meantion oil slick and its keeping you slow even if you left the Spot, been thrown directly again? :rolleyes:

    But Go on, live in your World, where mages are op , the Klitschko Brothers need help to Cross a street and you are Happy :D
     
  9. vampiro

    vampiro Someday Author

    You can try manipulate but any player with basic knowledge is aware that mages are op and the best class for pvp nowadays, you can deny it cause you are mage, i dont care, the facts are there for honest people, there will always exist dishonest players that try to keep their benefits by twisting or lying :)
     
    Athiae likes this.
  10. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    Hands down we haven't had so much powerful thoughts on this forum in years. Kind of reminds me of the times when Master0fpuppets was still active.
    I had to frame your post and put it on my wall ... so I would have a good laugh when not in a mood :D

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020
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  11. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Veteran

    Dwarfs' skills are terribly bugged... of course in favour of dwarfs. The effects of the oil slick (including the double basic attack dmg) and even their armor break don't wear off when using a stun break... even if it should remove all negative effects.

    In such case, you have to take down and replace the said 3p. talent. It should fix the problem until it comes back.

    Yes.
    Yes.
    AoE - some of them are, best - I doubt it. Only Frost Wind is a useful in PvP skill with a large AoE. Destruction and Meteor are too slow, Frost Nova is more of an antistun and only sometimes works as stun against DK (against rangers only if they aren't careful enough), Frozen Sphere travels slowly enough for other players to dodge it, and the other skills can't really be called AoE.

    Better AoE has for example DK. BWS and MWS cover half a map while dealing bleeding and slowing effects or healing you. Banner also has a large slowing&damaging AoE. FotD is maybe a lower AoE, but deals good damage, and combined with a banner essentially holds an enemy in place if they have their jump on cooldown (which, again means rather only mages: rangers have the blade dance which only sometimes gets bugged and doesn't work, and dwarfs have a cooldown so low, that it would pass just by the while that it takes to use Banner+FotD).
    Theoretically.
    Which ones? The one that takes down 25% of your damage? Oh wait, that's a debuff of DK.
    Strongest slow would be more accurate.
    Ah, the infamous three stunning skills on top of slows that make you run out of stunbreaks quickly if you ain't dwarf... oh wait, that's DK too.
    Mage has literally one dangerous stunning skill that lasts 1 second and can be used only every 20 seconds and you're still complaining about that? You're funny, people.
    The one that can only be used every 30s and dies in 2 hits for a ranger, allowing for optimum healing literally without any danger? Oh yes, guardian is the best summon, but for the enemy rangers.
    That skill's "fix" shouldn't have happened in the first place, but astral phenomenon's "fix" also should have never happened. Remember that the original thread suggesting the said "fix" was a satire at the done in a similar manner "fix" of the mind control's talent. Then it wouldn't be so OP... and you should know how hard using MC used to be. Also it was impossible for players without good connection, because even a small lag resulted in the talent's buff not being counted. But people were complaining that it was too OP... good, have something "less OP" (singu) and stop complaining.
    Well, do ya punk?

    So far your post looks to me like it was caused by meeting a cheater, like many of the class complainings (well, dwarf is an exceptions, because their debuffs are impossible to remove = bug = a real thing to complain about).
     
  12. DBS-Flamelurker

    DBS-Flamelurker Forum Expert

    I hope you are joking. :)

    MWS is useless, too slow. BWS is decent but in no way can it beat FS. Classes with ranged attacks have no reason to enter in the Banner, unlike DK who must necessarily enter Singularity. Mage has better AoE than DK, you're writing a lot of nonsense about DK... You didn't even mention Earthquake, which is the only good DK AoE attack in pvp.

    Banner is used only for rage, stop. All other effects are weak.

    This "debuff" is USELESS. Thanks for the free laughs.

    Singularity; Ice missile; FS; these are strong debuffs. Ice missile is OP, high damage and big slowdown. Compare it with the "very strong" green arrow. DK has the worst debuff ever. :D

    Mage is dangerous at every range: melee, medium and long range. There is only one class from which DK must escape in the melee area: Mage. This is RIDICULOUS.

    Mage can abuse Singularity against DK. You forget that DK needs to stun to deal damage, Mage not because he is a ranged class.

    I rarely lose against Ranger, I can lose easily against Mages.

    Have you ever played DK? The only attack that takes "half map" is frost wind, the strongest stun in the game. ;)

    Mage is the best in pvp because he is simply the class with the best skills, for this reason he can compete in pve without OP set. But nothing, we continue to believe that Mage is weak.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
  13. Dzungla

    Dzungla Regular

    :D You gotta be kidding. No further comments.

    They are best in pvp because arena is broken regarding type of dmg - elemental + multipliers vs physical which is almost the same against machines and players with a dif in fact that you can't break machines armor :rolleyes:

    btw I don't mind they have guardian like it is for PVE but that should be nerfed asap :D (joking but that's how mages comment other classes ^)
     
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  14. DreamWill

    DreamWill Forum Expert

    theoretically yes, but in practice… 500% EA reduced by 70% = 150% dmg while 410% FS reduced by 55% = 184.5%;) but EA costs 66 (53 with longbow), rangers get 8 conc/sec ---> 1 hit every 7-8 seconds (if you don't spend conc for other skills, otherwise more) and before you MUST mark, then the break-armor activates, to use that break-armor rangers need to hit the enemy 3 times consecutively in less than 3 seconds (because rangers need to keep the marking), lol. While FS costs 50 and mages get 12/sec ---> 1 hit every 4 seconds: 2 FS per EA for rangers and you don't need to mark, really you don't need to hit too because it explodes automatically but EA no, it was too op and they removed it:) (I was sarcastic but have to admit that it was op)
    Ice missile: 75/93.75% dmg vs hunting arrow: 66% dmg (+6% * 5, calculated according to the probability)
    Ice missile: -50% movement speed vs hunting arrow: -30% movement speed
    Ice missile: -15% attack speed vs hunting arrow: … it doesn't anything more
    Ice missile: CD reduction on frozen wind and frozen nova (some of the strongest stuns of the game) vs hunting arrow: no concentration needed, yes because it isn't free not talented like ice missile.

    You are right they are perfectly equal:cool:
    how? with adrenaline?
    Rangers: +60% movement speed for 5 seconds every 16 seconds, -50% movement speed all the time: average speed = 68,75% of the original; last but not least -15% attack speed

    Mages: -30% movement speed all the time: average speed: 70% of the original; no debuffs on attack speed

    Lucky mobility should be an advantage for rangers (the fastest class) and mages need it, even if they are faster than the fastest without any buff:)
    yes, a thing that other classes don't need to do. for what? to have higher dmg than others? before I showed you the differences between FS and EA, now I show you the difference between fireball and precision shot:
    Precision shot: 20/25 concentration (long/short-siegebow) and 8 conc/sec ---> one every 3 seconds
    Fireball: 35 mana and 12 mana/sec ---> one every 3 seconds.
    They look balanced, but now watch the damage:
    precision shot: 150/300% unmarked/marked reduced by 70% = 45/90% vs fireball: 138% + 25% * 3 reduced by 55% = 62% + 11% * 3
    even after marking fireball deals higher damage, but you can spam it whenever you want while rangers FIRST must mark and THEN can try to hit, on top of that fireball has an XXXL hitbox, it seems like an AoE skill ---> higher chances to hit ---> higher dmg, while sometimes PS doesn't do dmg even if it hits the enemy (bug or micro lag?)

    But np, rangers have +10% hp than mages so everything it's ok;)

    you are right to correct me, but those skills you named aren't so common in pvp, maybe only BWS, few DKs use it, btw I wrong… I should write best hitboxes, is better in this way?
    And blade dance is a good skill for pvp even if it's easy to predict because is slow, but RAs that abuse it are very annoying.
    Again, thank you for the clarification, but better to be more specific: slowing on movement speed AND attack speed together ;) death sweep does the same, but it's melee, so usable almost only against DKs, or should we see kamikaze rangers that suicide themselves jumping into the singularity to slow a mage?

    I haven't considered the -25% dmg (I remember it was -20% but not sure) because most DKs don't use that skill, they prefer CD reduction.
    DKs's stuns are possible to avoid, mages not. frozen nova is used as an antistun against DKs, but not against rangers because rangers have very bad stuns and teleport is enough. Those 20 seconds become 7 into the singularity:) so 2 stuns in 7 seconds, one every 3.5, less with CD reduction on ice missile, not so different than DKs.
    should we talk about the wolves? or the tree?:rolleyes::D:D
    BTW, turrets die faster and deal lower dmg (mechanical turret, I haven't considered the others), while you can put guardian inside the singularity then I wanna see kamikaze rangers that suicide themselves trying to heal;) (and yes, that 30% is very op if you want to listen to this, especially in 5v5, and I know it should be nerfed, or at least limited, as other things)
    I know it was ironic and I laughed a lot when they did it:D:D:D:D I was contrary to the "fix" on MC and was the first on the italian forum to complain against it (before the mages of our forum;)).
    Yes they shouldn't do both the fixes, but this doesn't change the fact that currently singularity is the strongest skill of the game:) imagine what DKs with permanent dragon hide become… This is the situation of mages (of course permanent dragon hide is worse:p)

    They could change it in this way: -5% CD per second on itself and -10% CD per second on other skills is enough to prevent the abuse imho.
    not me, but maybe who opened this useless thread, for me it's impossible because:
    correct.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
  15. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Veteran

    The difference is that FS travels slowly and doesn't explode on contact, and so it is very easy to avoid by simply running at it (while trying not to run through the center so that you take less dmg). EA is fast and does explode on contact, so you either have to get out of its reach or run sideways, which is made easier by the projectile being smaller and not exploding on the end of the trajectory. The main problem with EA (as well as with other arrows) is that there are aiming bugs which cause it to be shot in random directions instead of where you're pointing at.

    Then... either you don't let the mage stay in singularity from the start (bleeding + bird), or if you can't - you run far away. Most people will get bored waiting for you and will go out then.

    False. Blade Dance is a forced skill. You can use it while getting stunned. Not while you are stunned, but in the very moment he's using the skill. You might arrive at the target location stunned, but since mage's frost lasts shorter than DK's stun, you will be free before he redirects his attacks. If he manages to redirect his attacks, it's nine in ten times that he's cheating.

    Why would the debuffs be on all the time?

    Yes, plus Blade Dance for additional mobility.

    Bug. Also it can happen with fireball too, had it happen with all ranged skills that hit (i.e. not FS, not ToT and not Ground Breaker).

    That's because it moves you. Normal person gets confused for a split second at least, giving you an advantage. Only bots will immediately redirect to your target positions (one of the ways to tell a bot from a honest player). Mage's slow skills don't move you anyways, so the enemy only has to avoid them. Also, Blade Dance, when correctly used, is impossible to be avoided, because it starts hitting immediately - it only takes long to finish and to unlock normal movement.

    And that's a fact.

    At least I'm doing it... most don't have the 3p. talent for auto damage, so before they are able to attack me, I'm behind them and out of singu with blade dance.

    False. False. False.
    Now some facts:
    1. Turrets inherit all dwarf's states: this includes block rate. No other summon can block.
    2. Turrets inherit full HP: ranger's summons don't inherit anything and guardian either inherits 30% of mage's HP or has HP difficulty dependent, but anyways it's way lower in PvP than turrets' HP.
    3. Mechanical turret deals 110% damage per hit while lowering the cooldowns and two can be active. Guardian is only one and it is weaker (and only half elemental).
    4. Tesla is 100% resistant to dmg.
    5. Tesla and automated turret deal elemental damage.
    6. The main drawback of mechanical and automated turrets is that you lose steam if they are destroyed... but you can take them down before they are destroyed, so that you retrieve steam and the opponent can't heal.

    Most times you can stand outside the singu, DB has enough reach. Also, usually 30% is worth it anyways.

    But it's almost the main ranger's strength (in PvP, in PvE it'd be on par with EA's armor break), just like the singu (with current state) is one of the main mage's strengths. You can't remove/restrict one of those without rebalancing the whole class.

    Then, I still don't understand why are the 3 weaker classes throwing dirt on each other instead of trying to talk at least a bit about the class that is truly OP (and even more OP in PvE, 50k dmg dwarfs are the strongest that even farm in groups - above that they're not even seen because they do everything solo, that's why they don't normally seem that stronger than others if 50k dmg dwarf farms in a group of 70k dmg other classes).
    Dwarf has elemental dmg on his basic attack, which deals 88% base damage + burn dmg and can be doubled if you get for even 0.1s in his oil slick... because you can't remove that effect. On top of that, he can heal a bit independently of killing anything and his turrets are described above.
     
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  16. elitecrew1031

    elitecrew1031 Active Author

    Silly me I have like 65k dmg for speed farm and im still playing with group of 2/3 ppl
    If you have 70k dmg and you farm with random groups 2 things can be deduced You dont farm fast enough or properly, if you have 70k dmg and you don't have friends/guild that you farm with you are in pretty bad situation.I can always find someone to farm with in my friend list / guild .
    100% true this is why im never able to stack my belt of zeal (except q1) in a group,but it's my fault after all i should farm solo because I have way more then 50k dmg.
    Every dwarf with gold/silver/bronze rank in group PVE LB means that they have 50k dmg or less ? Got Ya now if eventually I search a group I should never invite these noobs :D .
    I don't play that pvp but im sure dwarf turrets can be 1/2 shotted especially with mage 1 ice sphere and they are dead for the price of 30 mana. Also they won't touch because you outrange everyting as a mage.
     
  17. DreamWill

    DreamWill Forum Expert

    I was ironic, but you explained perfectly why it should travels slowly, and why mages don't have to ask to improve its speed, right?

    and why can't it explode when hits a wall? it deals "only" 250% dmg, considered the cost isn't so op becuase it can't break armor too, the only problem is the radius of explosion, too large.

    my strategy, but not always works and bird is easy to dodge even running in circle sometimes. I don't say rangers can't beat mages, but only it's harder for us, and the main cause of this is difference in armor/res:)
    DKs' stuns are longer because they are melee and have to reach the enemy (groundbreaker at least)
    Rarely (usually this happens with net and sometimes other skills too), Idk how exactly to replicate this, you can hook the target and hit it automatically in the new position after jumps and these things without redirecting the mouse.
    I wasn't referring to the 3p talent, but I don't use this strategy because I expect a frozen nova, faster to cast than blade dance, and being frozen inside singu = death.
    sure?
    you can stun and slow them, or break their armor, guardian is immune to everything.
    turrets get 150% hp if they haven't changed, I've never understood what guardian gets, it seems like some base values + something inherited by mage, and I've seen (thanks to the jewels in the cape) guardians with >220k hp, this is why I don't believe the 1hit story:rolleyes:
    Maybe guardian in pvp has lower hp, but turrets with broken armor die even blocking the hit, like guardian you need 2-3 hits (the first to mark) to destroy them.
    true for not talented guardian, fire guardian deals 100% fire ---> 110% * 0.3 = 33%, 100 * 0.45 = 45% plus burning; as I said before you can stun and slow turrets too.
    automated is almost useless, tesla is good only for healing hamsters, and as healing runners I don't consider them because this doesn't mean fight.
    The only advantage they have and why mages must take care when using guardian.
    if guardian is in the centre you must entre in the singu effects, not slowing, but break-armor works on the edge too, and mages can use it as a bait and a FS spammed onto guardian during break-armor means >30% hp.
    have you ever seen rangers in capture the flag that play as they are farming in a pve map because they go on newbies and kill them with it to refill conc and hp becoming invincible? I was talking about pvp not pve, and in pvp everything should be reworked.

    because the 4th was conceived in another universe and I don't want to talk about something we can't understand:p
    The eternal fight… EA vs FS: which one is the strongest? (in pvp) answer: dwarf's quickshot:cool: 88% base dmg plus 150% from burning, x2 with oil on both --> 476% fire dmg (potential)… EA deals 150% dmg, FS 184% and QS 214% on time:D

    You opened the discussion about q7+q8 combo for dwarfs and asked a nerf on their q8 because it's totally unbalanced than others… But watch their q1 what is compared to others:D and they don't use it only for q7+q8, but imagine it with bloodmage's doll:)
     
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  18. DBS-Flamelurker

    DBS-Flamelurker Forum Expert

    Mage can cast Singularity and Golem nearby, against DK, this means that if I attack Golem I eat FS, if I attack Mage Golem it hits me with broken armor. So you can only run away or use DH, but if you use it Mage can:

    Teleport + Nova > DK: FBC > Mage: Frost Wind; FS x2 and a half life gone, if you are not dead.

    The problem isn't Singularity, but the fact that a powerful ability like Singularity is permanent, in practice.
     
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