Discussion in 'Dragonknights' started by dkisbestithink, Mar 22, 2021.

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  1. cogix

    cogix Regular

    Maybe I am very noob and other DK can correct me about that but:

    Mage singularity 10 points: -90% attack speed, -90% movement speed, -70% armor value, -70% elemental value
    Ranger explosive arrow 5 pt: -60% armor
    Ranger huntig trap 10 points: -60% armor
    Dwarf mine 10 points: -45% armor
    Dwarf oil slick 10 points: -70% fire resistance
    Dwarf micro rocket 10 points: -10% armor
    Dwarf machine gun turret: -1% armor each hit (stack up to 50 times)
    DK iron brow 10 points: -60% armor, -30% elemental value
    DK outburst 10 points: -15% armor
    DK ground breaker 10 points: -30% armor

    As I said, maybe I missed something, but:
    Mage 10 points single skill: -90% attack speed, -90% movement speed, -70% armor value, -70% elemental value
    Ranger 20 points (2 skills): -120% armor
    Dwarf 30 points (3 skills): -70% fire resistance, -55% armor with potential other -50% armor each hit with machine gun turret
    DK 30 points (3 skills): -105% armor, -30% elemental value

    not so sure if that is called "balanced" or DK has a good armor break.....

    About healing:
    Dragon hide 10 points: regen 30% of the damaged you caused in HP -> you need to deal high dmg to get high HP back
    Healing shield (applied to spike shield): regen 5% of your HP each taken hit while spike shield is active

    no more outburst regen, no more mighty wild swing hp regen after CE

    Ranger wolves, 3 (can be 5): each bite heals you for 60% of the dealt damage

    Mage and mech have hp regen too, but not too high

    so, DK has a good hp regen when he can deal lot of dmg at multiple enemies at the same time .... 30% of damage dealt
    ranger has 5 wolves regenerating 60% hp each bite.... about 300% if attack a boss
    thebearreturns likes this.
  2. Dark59

    Dark59 Old Hand

    Mage frost nova 55%
    DBS-Flamelurker likes this.
  3. kuwabaraz

    kuwabaraz Forum Duke

    A clarification that -105% armor - 30% elementary, is a joke and works on only one monster, otherwise and a -45% in the map you have to eliminate 1 at a time easy to see the very painful result for those who use the DK.

    If you look at the Q items you will see that the game is even more unbalanced an example is the hunters reaching -140-144% armor.

    But why does a group go without the DK in massacre mode obviously worth doing?
    DBS-Flamelurker likes this.
  4. cogix

    cogix Regular

    unfortunately I know, before CE the iron brow skill was effective on the "main" monster hit + some monsters around. Now it is only a single target skill.... and also it upsets me that DK has to use 30 points to "reach" the armor breaker that other classes can reach with less points.
    That is balance?
  5. DBS-Flamelurker

    DBS-Flamelurker Exceptional Talent

    Not only that, but DK also needs 3 skills to break armor, this is a huge waste of time. :D
    kuwabaraz likes this.
  6. kuwabaraz

    kuwabaraz Forum Duke

    Yeah but let's see, you have to use 2 defensive skills at the same time to not die and they are not enough, 3 armor breakers a total of 5 skills in sequence, when you have finished starting the skills you have 2-3 seconds of full armor breaker and maybe even less.

    The skill bar is 5, the use of these has a delay of a certain period of time so you are not sure if they start and the more you use the worse your game gets and so you waste time also changing the bar which is another negative.

    Obviously, if you need a maximum of 3 skills to do damage, you have an advantage.

    If you then check the consumption of essences and compare them with other classes, here too there is a consumption greater than or equal to other skills that do more damage, even this is not balanced. Even those that serve as support to other classes, such as the super destructive blow, give 100% consumption of 6 essences, useful for this class 0, (but let's see what changes with the Gorga set and here I don't think about it).
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2021
  7. uvozapanje

    uvozapanje Forum Apprentice

    dk is dead..its dead long time ago..i tray today Dragan hall merciless with 450k dmg 50 % crit and i cant bring him to half of his hp..all those video killing Dragan i see is not true with 300k dmg etc thats BP worker..tray and test it..i forgot im wisdom 200 iron break 10 etc in this video above i didnt even see smash like skill our mate
  8. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Ambassador

    I'm not saying DK's armor break is the best, but it's good enough. In a group, it's pretty helpful... the other classes don't have a permament armor break either, and DK's breaks are very useful on bosses, where ranger often has problems using trap, and dwarf mine, especially in groups.

    If you're damage-oriented or mid-ground, you want as high damage as possible anyways. :D Again, DK is the class I have tested the least of all after CE, but things like FotD should add up there too, and if they don't it's a bug.

    If you're defensive or mid-ground, all you want is not getting OHKO, and the mean amount of damage you take per hit to be less than 5% of your HP. Counting in all the minion attacks etc. on bosses, that shouldn't be a problem.

    Outburst is a completly different thing now, the skill was unfortunate from the begin and it honestly was a good thing they changed it. MWS is more useful than you could think... and on a horde that's pretty much HP filler when DH is on... which, when used correctly, can be perma-on in damage-oriented and mid-ground setups.

    Ranger has up to 6 wolves, and 7 with q1 adornment. They have your HP though, and can be pretty easily wiped out before the cooldown is finished. And ranger is not like DK, there is no way to speed the cooldowns up, except for the wisdom skill, which is out of regular class comparison now, when most of people are using 1h. There's the regeneration from tree too, but that's not really important in combat.

    You'd be surprised. Mage has it very limited, but still capable of filling the entire HP in one skill (under right circumstances). And dwarfs... well, they're healing 2% per turret hit in a turret-oriented setup. Considering the amount of hits dealt by the automated turret... well, that's a lot. Still, DK's healing is very appropriate for his position, and very powerful too.

    Very cool, but eg. on Dragan (in his Asylum), wolves survive like 5s, up to 10s maybe. Then there's 30s of waiting (at least) to be able to heal again. DK can have DH up even constantly. Oh, wait, there comes the dwarf's group talent. Good, other classes can play without tank, with enough skill. That's how it's supposed to be. DK used to be needed by everyone and most DKs were being sassy back then. That said, if people are kicking you from group for being DK, they're just idiots and we have to educate them. I would never do that, and not out of pity.
  9. kuwabaraz

    kuwabaraz Forum Duke

    Now in fact with the singularity it is the exact opposite on many Bosses and the magician is a must for the singularity, with his summoning he replaces the DK, and the damage is not the same he does a little too many things, but I do not a tutologist of the classes and I do not care is a wrong approach if the classes are unbalanced and not a little.

    What interests me is having equal chances and damaging the bosses at the same cost and with the same timing, the rest is hot air.

    I'm sure there are still many bugs and users are abusing them and not a little so I am left with the doubt as to what will be in the end.
  10. Nostalgiac

    Nostalgiac Advanced

    DK suffers from two distinct design problems with the game (and, as such, will always be a bad class for PvE until the game design fundamentally changes).

    1. Game is about damage and efficiency measured in rounds per time spent (catacombs, bosses). Because rewards for doing anything in DSO are so low, players are required to do hundreds of particular maps to get anywhere. And anyone who has higher damage output, will progress faster, being able to deal even more damage, then progressing even faster and so on.

    Any class that isn't focused on damage is at a disadvantage in that situation. Just see in chat, how many people are asking for dmg, and how many for tank? Ratio is maybe 20:1. This is problem for as long as I'm playing (even before CE).

    After CE, it seemed to be fine for a while, but it was just our unfamiliarity with the new playing system - now we know how to play efficiently, and war is an unnecessary burden again.

    We can even see people with 1 HP builds but insane damage, something that is locked for a DK. I don't think it should be possible to play the game with 1 HP even on normal difficulty for any class.

    2. Pure DMG-dealing classes can go in as high a mode as they wish, and if they have at least somewhat good damage, they will be useful and contribute, even on bloodshed (ranger and mage). Not true for a DK, you need to be very very top end to withstand hits from something like Bloodshed PW Herald or Grimmag. Or, you need to have everything in defences which will make your dmg dealing abilities even worse and you cannot do anything solo.

    Our most efficient armor break works on a single target only, and we need 3 skills to remove 100% of armor (with all or almost all 30 points invested in them). Either make Iron Brow affect an area, or turn iron brow into 100% armor reduction (or maybe 90% and with some item it can reach 100% - starting at 80%, 90% with 10 pts in skill and 100% with some unique). It would be only fair, as it's the most "focused" of armor breaks (and only lasts 5 sec) and therefore should be the strongest. It would give DK's a group role in boss fights. It won't be OP in solo because we need to waste another 20 points in healing skills and spamming those limit our dmg potential.

    On a final note - new class is in the works: melee class. Somehow I feel like the final days of DK's are coming...
  11. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Ambassador

    FTFY. Either that, or they change the bad design you're talking about fundamentally.
  12. DBS-Flamelurker

    DBS-Flamelurker Exceptional Talent

    It's the same, even if you don't have to intensively farm DK it would be even worse than other classes, because it produces low damage and needs to build a lot of defense unlike other classes. Before CE the game was unbalanced, now even more 'than before.

    It is useless to give a class the role of "dps" (which makes no sense in this game) when you give it tools to slow / range / summons and now also heal that make the difference in life irrelevant.

    Melee? A good reason to stay away from the new class. :D
    kuwabaraz likes this.