Suggestion Mage Balancing suggestions

Discussion in 'General Archive' started by iNeXoRaBlE, Jul 17, 2017.

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  1. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    Another proof of ignorance and taking people's hearsay as fact ... without checking them all together on your own.
    Even rangers who are using q7 set are not dealing that kind of damage anymore ... furthermore not all rangers are using 2H and q7 set.
    Even in PvP rangers with q7 set are inferior ... even if compared to 1H rangers. I can only say ... I have never been defeated by ranger who is using q7 set in the arena ... so far (counting out bugged set while getting buff even if the net is not hitting a target and the buff is 3s) ... and of course if I was not defeated because I wanted to finish the daily fast.
    Also ... EA has been crippled with R194 ... what you can't read from the patch notes is that EA is no longer dealing double damage to marked targets :) ... by default it cuts the damage exponentially. But you don't play other classes ... you only rely on your wishes ... and BS YouTube videos.
    Can't you see s/he is a troll always protecting his/her class :)
    They don't even play the other classes so they can make a difference in skills, effectiveness, gameplay difference ... etc.
    SWs has always been strongest class in PvE and PvP ... and they still are. You don't simply take out the damage one is dealing and equate the biggest damage dealers with strongest class. One should observe the effectiveness and usefulness of the skills together with the ability to deal damage and stay alive ... by playing average class character.

    Balancing a game by nerfing skills is not an option.
    Skills are the ones who are credential for the gameplay ... not the sets and their ridiculous bonuses.
    I would once more mention this game (which BTW is an old game and single-player and it is no competitor to any BP game ... so no need for censorship) who has one of the best combat systems (if not the best in my opinion) of all times.
    By using your skills you are making progress ... or not ... depending on your playing skills. Instead of using sets and spamming the skills thanks to the set bonuses ... for which you don't have to have any playing skills.

    We all tend to protect our class and hit the other ones ... but there are different reasons why are people doing that.
    1. Players are not well experienced with the game.
    2. People are always biased and tend to protect their own class.
    3. People are simply protecting their investment . This example is the most adequate for this game.
    People are spending a lot of money ... and they are willing to do anything just to satisfy their fetish. They can whine and give false feedback (intentionally) ... they can pay people to play their character (that is a truth that BP is not willing or unable to deal with) ... they will do everything to eliminate the competition even of their own class.
    Money are reason for the changes. It is a legitimate reason for every company because they are doing this for profit ... but what is not reasonable is the way they are making the changes.
    All big companies are having pedigree and are particularly proud of their history and past success ... but this game is probably the only game in the world that is erasing everything good from the past and making it worst. Of course the devs (which is fancy word for programmer) are probably not to blame ... because probably (at least I want to believe) they are getting orders from above.
     
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  2. anolajen

    anolajen Someday Author

    well iam against any hunter who enrage after q7 nerf and go cry + demand return and nerf for others :D
    but nerfs itself are best way to balance things if youw ant talk about mages:
    sure lets nerf q7 +q8 problwem is that most people crying about mage just cry withou actual thinking
    lets see some realistic facts

    q7 pvp
    your choices are
    A) magic missile 100% dmg + faster flight speed ,much faster casting speed,mana free
    B) fireball 126% dmg slower speed , slower cast , tiny aoe (only if you directly hit something) 10 manacost - lets also say fireball have same hitbox just less fitting with visual
    you see the problem ?you can spam magic missiles now with exactly same result q7 or not q7 removal would pump fireball to 35 mana making it useless compared to missile
    big bad q7 is mostly just scapegoat to blame by frustrated pvp players honestly wanna nerf it ? nerf it everything stay same people will spam missiles other people will cry about missiles and mages might get mana reduction for some pve skill instead like others so thats actually buff
    Suggestion: remove fireball reduction just to make end of this neverending complaint

    q7 pve
    q7 for mage is second best after post-nerf ranger due to vortex- reduction
    while this is situational ( force you to stand)it provide around 45% damage bonus overall i think thats overkill for any 2 item set and need nerf
    however we must metion that
    Ranger have 41,66% dmg and aditional ability to spam explo arrow cost free for 28% time
    DK have 45% dmg on average with50% att speed on one skill ( cant judge as i dont play dk )
    SM hmm unless i missing something 15% dmg

    suggestion :
    A) 3/4 so mage ranger and DK q7 should get nerfed by like 50% to avoid being op set and open other options
    B) stick with 40-45% and nerf ranger ability to spam EA cost free to 50% cost reduction ( as mages get nothing DK increase in attack speed SM removed cd + speed but all have to still pay resources) afterwards would be q7 still very strong set balanced for 3 classes

    q8 pvp

    kind of similar to q7 it changes
    ice missile to deal 3*30 ( 90% dmg per cast) 112,5% if you are chilled
    magic missile 100% dmg + same flight speed same cast time same hitbox
    honestly i dont know why people crying about ice missile with q8 is basically same as magic one with slow as bonus its just harder to avoid because its split to 3 projectiles rduction of sphere cost isnt big deal in pvp as you have to repeatedly hit target first and sphere is skill working only on small specific range = useless on anything far or close
    suggestion : remove splitting of ice missile and just make it deal 90% in single projectile per cast so ice missile wouldnt be spammed more than other skills and still be usefull (weaker than magic missile but with slow)

    q8 pve :
    pointless as bonus doesnt work against bosses and champions

    for pvp and pve splitting ... not gonna happens all suggestions about removing sets gems or stats as whole ... would just anger every single person who farmed set for pvp use ( basically every mage with q8 for example) also things like gems and items are source of money for BP they have no use from pvp if you cant buy gems etc to compete
    nope checdk recent topics forum is mostly about pve with few people suggesting pvp changes
     
  3. ArunaSky

    ArunaSky Forum Apprentice

    i guess your wishis come true. Same as everyone else asking for nerf everywhere. :(
     
  4. Demon

    Demon Forum Mogul

    After R194 SW have a much powerfull punch with that ice, this is a fact, they have buff somehow that ice misile so that can be nerfed i guess.
    Is a strategy used in commerce bussiness, you grow up the prices before the BF so you can have a big discount on the BF. That is happen.
     
  5. Fugnuts

    Fugnuts Forum Master


    Well i play mage as 1st class and to be honest i dont mind if both q8 and q7 sets have their bonuses nerfed or removed for PvP mostly because i dont PvP (cuz it never starts unless 1v1) and secondly because i dont like it that much.In PvE however the mages need a serious boost to keep up with the other classes.I can understand why most people are angry with the q8 set effect, im a mage and i get mad when i see another mage playing only with that skill alone lol.As for q7 set, well the magic missile does 100% dmg while fireball does 110% (on default) and u can spawn unlimited magic missile without the help of any set.I seriously dont see whats the big fuss about the fireballs.Its not like they have 300-400% dmg.Besides most players nowadays play with 2 handers.Even if the q7 effect will be removed from PvP , the 2hander mages/rangers will still die 1hit if they meet each other in arena.Having 3 fireballs like before q7 was introduced or 10 now after it its pointless because all thats needed is for 1 to hit.

    Regarding the ice sphere, well the way that skill works is a joke imo.Very slow, doesnt explode on impact and has a small range.Forcing ranged classes to play from close range is what i dont like.I wish it was more like the EA to be honest.They both have similar dmg anyways...Maybe this skill should be reworked too and give it some extra power.
     
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  6. anolajen

    anolajen Someday Author

    well its unique and focused on pve where speed doesnt bother you and range is short but not too short :)
    dmg on other hand .... if you do some tests you wont hit over 290% on perfect hit after 194 thats far from similar to explo (500%) :D

    for q7 q8 atleast it will be funny if they get actually nerfed / removed and all whinners around realize that nothing changed and same mages who killed them with ice miss will 1-2 shot them with magic miss spam
     
  7. alchimista

    alchimista Forum Pro

    No way, please stop. Another nerf 3D.
    I think that Bp dev are doing a good job. It is really hard to have a balanced game play and have the community happy.
    They can not focus on their work , upon those few gods players that rules over pvp or pve ladders. Those NON "out-of-context" players are real, they rules and we must be facing them every day.
    I donìt think it' s a matter of which class you play with.
    Every P2P game has its own.
     
  8. Grizzles1

    Grizzles1 Forum Apprentice

    I think mages should have to manage their resources like everyone else. Rangers get free EAs only if they land a net, and all these videos I see of SWs with Q7 sets, they can spam spells with full resources. Rangers should also get more damage on hunting arrow.
     
  9. Fugnuts

    Fugnuts Forum Master


    Yes but if the q7 and q8 are to be nerfed then the only way to fight in PvP would be with skills that do 100% dmg lol...Fireball doing 110% and MM doing 100% ...nerf one will only lead to use of another...remove fireball and force players use magic missile ...then maybe add a nerf to that ...and then attack only through PMs (cursing lol ) cuz you wont have a decent skill that you can use as a ranged SW class.Im dying to see what kind of ranged skill will the mages be forced to use after the nerf.Ill be raging if i see rangers have a 300% skill that they can spawn almost unlimited and i as i mage will have to focus on a 100% skill that i can only spawn 3-4 times.If we are going to balance things, then lets balance things, and not kill a class just so some crybabies can sleep well at night.

    Remove the q7 set effect ...remove the unlimited fireballs, make me only be able to use 3 fireballs per mana bar, but give those fireballs the dmg of the ranger's EA and double dmg when it hits..you can remove the burning effect even...at least it would be fair ..mages vs rangers..we both spam fireballs/ea...luckiest one to win ..


    It will be ranged class vs ranged class..each could fire 3 or 4 times their best skill with same dmg, with same effects..lets see how many ppl would like that ...Or is it called a balance if a class has a "fireball" that do 2x dmg and does 300% skill dmg in one blow?

    Lets see what will those who think that 110% dmg vs 300% dmg (and exploding twice) have to say if the fireballs are nerfed but are given the same properties as EA.Or they expect that if q7 and q8 sets are nerfed , then the mages are supposed to fight with skills that do 100% dmg while other classes fight with skills that do 3 times that?I currently have to hit a moving target succesfully 2 or 3 times to do the amount of dmg a EA does in 1 hit...and you ask for q7 set to be nerfed.... #Balance
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
  10. Mr.eggplant

    Mr.eggplant Forum Apprentice

    I play mage and i must say spellweaver class is one of the most balanced character in game regarding skills.
    About item set, 2 OP set and yes im talking about q8 set and q7.

    Q8 set Its not balanced in pvp. Just imagine sigris going full retard on you while doing q8 boss fight.
    SIGRIS with 2.00atkspd lol. balance right?

    SUGGESTION: Why not just make the Q8 set 3xice missile with CD? about .5-1.5 sec or is that too long or make it with succession every 5 ice missle thrown only 1 gets buff with 3xmissle bonus. IDK you decide.

    For those who whine about SW killing them with 1-2 fireballs, shame on you its only a 110%, learn to dodge and bait the enemy mage, if you cant kill him with 1-2 shot successful hit, im sure he/she got better gear/gem/craft etc than yours. Like they were saying above, End gamers PVP players will kill you with 1-2 shot fireball no question asked, those guys invest money and time on the game to make that possible so stop pls. Dont want to die with 1-2 shot go play with shield, still die with a shield? same as staded above the enemy is just to strong for you.

    Anyway back on topic,
    The problem with Q7 set is you dont need skill to win, even players who used to be skillful with their fireballs started relying to much on q7 spam fball bonus. Now even not good players can just keep on spamming fireball until they eventually hit the enemy which is idiotic in many ways.

    SUGGESTION: Just make Mage q7 set like ranger(hit net then spam ea). Hit a meteor 9 sec spam fireball. Now only good players can spam fireballs. IF a player still lose on that.. i dont know, its either that player is an idiot or the enemy to goddamn good for him/her to be hit with a meteor. Its not that easy to hit some one with meteor you know.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017
  11. Fugnuts

    Fugnuts Forum Master


    How can you say that the mage is the most balanced class when everyone knows that its the weakest in PVE? Even tanks are better and kill bosses faster than spellweavers.....A class meant to be a dmg dealer, a class with lowest defense is worst than a tank whos main purpose is to be best in defense and not dmg? And you say its well balanced? Jesus...

    I play a mage too and i agree with you that q8 and q7 are op in PvP but in terms of PvE those sets are useless and the main skills require a serious boost in dmg (ice sphere, lightning strike) in order for the mage to be at least good at PvE.I can show you videos with warriors killing fatal bosses in like 20 sec lol...even rangers and dwarfs can match that time..and mages cant geat nowhere near that.And yet everyone complains just on how good they are at pvp.Sure, mages are good at pvp, but they are not the best class, and if they are to be nerfed in pvp they will be worst in pvp and worst in pve aswell.What will be the point of playing and investing time and money in a mage class if you cant do crap with it and even with the latest gems/glyphs you will be the worst class out of all 4?
     
  12. anolajen

    anolajen Someday Author

    err i think you never played mage both pre and post 194 because only thing that changed for mage in 194 is nerf of his main dmg skill( ice sphere by ~30% )

    mr.eggplant fireball is 124% talented but still thats extremely small damage comparable to free skills thats why its irrelevant if they remove both sets or not

    you cant however compare sigrrismar to players lol cooldown on ice miss ? so 1,5s cd to shoot for 90% damage when you have 100% skill free and spammable ? no one would bother using it anyway

    - hitting meteor in pvp is pointless unlesss its static tower or afker lol no one would bother using it just to get manafree fireball

    fugnuts : well sphere need fix to deal correct dmg not buff .... ligyhtning strike deserve rework ... as its basically single target dealing just pathetic aoe damage for high cost also the mechanic of q3 increasing damage multiplier from 1,33 to 1,5 is just joke and not competitive option
    for pve i think cd reduction from vortex should be removed and mana consuming skills buffed

    especially meteor for 600% dmg 50 mana and 60sec cd is joke compared to spammable 300-500% skills as EA ( spammed for free 1/3 time) or even sphere ( two prebug spheres deal 664% dmg and mana is back in 6,1 sec just from "basic regen"
    ice missile is almost same as magic missile with q8 but withou it ? 40% correct me if iam wrong but istn this lowest damage skill in game?

    guardian ? both ranger summons and guardian have to scale somewhat with caster stats now they have fixed hp immortal for naked character on normal .... bud dead in hit or two on infernal regardless equipment add tiny fact hes supposed to taunt + tank and result is clear
     
  13. Mr.eggplant

    Mr.eggplant Forum Apprentice

    Where did i say a thing a about pve? Im talking about the SW skills read it please, its balance no need to change a thing about sw skill if you boost sw skill even a little while q7 or q8 set still give buffs like that. then goodluck on pvp.
    How weak is your mage when a tank is faster than you at killing bosses? Tank role are 1hand dks who play with a party, you tank so dmg dealer can hit safely.. you dont tank alone, that doesnt exist. While some 2h can do agro boss while dodging, taking a few hits, getting regen, they dont actually compare to end gamer sw, ranger and sm in dmg.

    OK its 124%,

    About sigris spamming ice missle, thats what players look like to me when they do that. Its only an example, and Its absurd, right?
    And why not giving the set a cd? the cd only takes away the 3x bonus for a sec, you can still spam your normal ice missile, after cd youll get your 3x again wait cd again. Because of q8 set you got hit by 25 ice missile in a few sec, less dmg? you got slow, you hit 3x per hit, while its true its only 30% each its still gonna do heavy dmg in pvp. What the hell is that? Is that Mage version of steam machine gun turret, less dmg and only pierce 1 enemy, but you can always change the line of fire with a click of mouse with no mana cost while slowing down enemies? Thats absurd, again in pvp.

    About q7 set are we Just gonna let any mage with q7 set just spam fireball on pvp, what about 3v3 5v5 and 6v6 yeah a spamming mage. that mana reduction should be out. Got no more idea for this set. ITS Plain ridiculous OP for pvp.

    PS. I never said anything about pve in my last post. the set became ridiculously overpowered in "pvp" and nothing much on pve, SO I didnt bother talking about it. Check my post before, did i ever say anything about pve? EDIT
     
    Last edited by moderator: Aug 1, 2017
  14. sebastian_fl

    sebastian_fl Count Count

    Even though he wouldn't argue with you, his absence is caused by 6 weeks European vacation which has nothing to do with class balancing) I'll be back home-back in the game Aug 7-10. Not sure about the forum though) cheers fellas)
     
  15. Fugnuts

    Fugnuts Forum Master

    SW skills are for both PvE and PvP.Its not like you use skills only at PvP.Anyways if you consider that the SW is so op, show me one SW that can kill grimmag and arachna faster than this warrior.Or one SW that can solo khaly / mortis on infernal like this same warrior.We can discuss balance after.




    I can tell you that there are no mages who can kill bosses this fast.And yet for you SW is perfectly balanced.A dmg dealer class who cant match a defense class in boss killings lol.

    So before you decide to nerf the mages even more, you should consider these facts too.At the beginning there were 3 classes.A dmg dealer, a tank and a hybrid between those 2.Even the defensive items with defensive options have greater values to showcase the role as a tank that the dragonknight has.Somewhere along the way, they forgot about the mage class.If the defensive items of the warrior have superior stats , then why wont the offensive items have superior stats for mage class? If a full armor torso can be twice as better on warrior than on mage then why wont a 2hander be twice as better or at least way better than the warrior's 2hander? No wonder u have warriors kill fatal bosses in 14 sec and mages who cant even get close to that.But lets nerf the mages cuz it makes sense ^^

    By all means, remove the q8 and q7 set effects at all in PvP if everyone is so pissed about these 2 sets, i dont mind because not everyone PvPs.But at least dont overlook the fact that the mage is the worst in PvE and make some changes there too.Its funny that so many complain about the fact that the mage is too good in PvP yet none of them have the decency of admiting that mages need to be buffed in PvE.Why is that? If you all are so eager to get a "balance" in this game, then fixing the PvE part for the classes that are weak on that area shouldnt also be a top priority?
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
  16. Mr.eggplant

    Mr.eggplant Forum Apprentice

    Where did i say its OP in PVE? I did said the SW skill is BALANCED but never said its op. I also said Q8 and Q7 set is "OP ONLY IN PVP" not in PVE.

    The topic is about balancing SW and everyone in this thread keep on talking about q7 and q8 set not balanced in pvp. So i add my suggestion about it. I would want the devs to Change q7 set a PVE oriented set because as of now this set bonus 150%dmg and spammable fb is spilt in PVP and PVE. SPAM fireball is a not a balanced for PVP.
    Change q8 set spam ice missle to balanced it for "PVP use" I dont like it in PVE so i didnt bother talking about it FOR PVE.

    Why do you keep on insisting about boss fight when i did not say anything about SW PVE, and you just keep on saying "DK KILLING BOSSES EASY". Should we change the thread topic into "DK too damn op rebalance it" Just LIke you said DK can tank and do dmg, Who other class do that anyway? Well only DK, LOL SW is balanced for a range class dont compared it with a dk whos the only melee and the most op class in dso, any other class who can play 2roles(TAnk and dmgr) in PVE at the same time? no only dk can do that. What makes those dk in your videos balanced or OP?

    THose videos? Lets just say sw cant fight like that warrior, but also, can a ranger fight like that warrior? THe answer is NO.
    When talking about speed on killing bosses, probably Only SM can do that too. just probably, Why cuz SM is OP too in a boss fight. What makes DK NOW balanced or OP? On that video its can be seen that dk are the most OP class, BEING OP IS NOT = BALANCED. Why would you compare it to a class whos not balanced then?

    If you really want to boost sw. No need to change the skill cuz its balanced, Just make q8 and q7 set a better PVE oriented set.[/QUOTE]
     
  17. KubQn

    KubQn Forum Apprentice

    [/QUOTE]

    My brain has been destroyed. Thanks. Firstly you agree that Q7 and Q8 sets are too OP (in PvP ofc) and you want them to nerf it. THEN you're saying that if they want to boost SW they shouldn't buff his skills, because they are BALANCED (sure kappa), but buff him by making Q7 and Q8 set better for PvE. Well how they can make it better if you want to nerf it because of PvP?

    "SUGGESTION: Why not just make the Q8 set 3xice missile with CD? about .5-1.5 sec"

    Basically by doing that you're nerfing Q8 set for PvE too, just saying. And now if they will buff it for PvE by idk giving each ice missle 60% dmg boost (just stupid example), ppl are going to cry again of the dmg is doing at PvP even with CD of it

    ATM I can agree that SW is one of the strongest PvP char, but why he shouldn't be? His PvE is a crap so atleast we can have fun at PvP.
    At PvE how can we be even close to deal dmg like other classes? If I want to get spell dealing dmg like EA I need to have a Q4 set so my lightning can deal 500% dmg too. But then i'm losing the most op set bonus (150% dmg) aswell as I'm still having costs on that lightning.

    Same with War. Maybe they're dealing 250%, but with boost to 3,0 AS + 150% + free cost of his 250% spell for that long duration make Mage dps weak.

    And about ppl crying that Q7 set have 9 sec bonus. Well I can have it 3s too if I get +50% dmg to lightning and no cost on it + I would activate it idk by placing Guardian who have 50% chance to get CD refunded, instead of using Control + Meteor + Circle + TP to refund mana when I'm at another 3s of not making dps by casting all of this.

    That's why mage must be rebalanced. The problem is that from what can we see BP rebalance gonna make him useless in PvP and even more at PvE. So maybe left him as it is.
     
  18. -Elizejs-

    -Elizejs- Junior Expert

    Please do somthing with mages! Now is wery big disbalance in game, thay is onlly 1 class in game what is never corected. In arena with full defense my tank is dead from mages 1 firball, and thay trow it wery kwick and never end mana for tham, sigi set is for them olso to strong. All clasis think where to get mana and how to juse it, but for mages never end it and thay trow fireballs like from destruction gun no 1 class can get till mage to kill it. Please fix mages and arena becose its not playable! And arena olso need rework, somtimes need half day to finish arena for daily quest- no players who is intrested to play it.
     
  19. Rhysingstar

    Rhysingstar Forum Ambassador

    It's amazing that very few players have learned the nerf lesson yet. Oh I get the argument, all mages on all servers are OP and must be nerfed.

    After all, the DK's were happy when they got nerfed. The Rangers were thrilled when they got nerfed. The SM's are ecstatic about their upcoming nerf. So now everyone must jump on the mage nerf bandwagon.

    Seems that most agree that the Q7-8 sets are what is causing the issue with pvp, but no one seems to have any idea on how to adjust those sets. They can only scream that every single mage in the game gets nerfed. Doesn't matter if they pvp. Doesn't matter if they are weak. Just nerf them.

    Is the end goal to see how many additional players we can get to quit the game?

    Maybe the rest of you don't care how many quit. I happen to play a DK on the ghost server formally known as Tegan and I'm sick of seeing players quit with each nerf.

    I watched many players leave after 155 and more leave after 185.

    When does this stop? How about instead of whining all the frickin time, someone spend a minute trying to figure out how to boost the class that they play? Is it too hard?

    Since many of you will only stay on the nerf wagon, how about having the guts to state your class so we can jump on nerf that next.

    It is hard enough to fight the dev's and their [EDIT] decisions, but players should not be fighting to get others nerfed simply because they have nothing better to do with their lives.
     
    Last edited by moderator: Aug 2, 2017
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  20. Saved_81

    Saved_81 Forum Master

    Actually the highest dmg for an auto-attack since it will pierce any enemy in the path for potentially more than 200% dmg.
    Infact magic missile will be brought to all other ranged auto-attack dmg (65% + 10%) and will regenerate 3 mana per hit.
     
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