Mage q7 vs blood staff (my questions)

Discussion in 'Spellweavers' started by Devedolser, Oct 30, 2019.

Dear forum reader,

if you’d like to actively participate on the forum by joining discussions or starting your own threads or topics, please log into the game first. If you do not have a game account, you will need to register for one. We look forward to your next visit! CLICK HERE
  1. KingsGambit

    KingsGambit Forum Expert

    I'm too lazy to do all calculations tbh so only couple things. You have counted mage q7 buff as it would be active all the time which isn't the case. Our recoil is based on singularity and being able to stick in 1 spot whole the time. If you consider that with avg. singularity outcome in vacuum than you gonna get mentioned 8-10% raw dmg outcome from q7 mage buff per second.

    Second - altough you indeed made calculations in favor for me which i appreciate btw. ;) you got final outcome with ranger q7 as 15,5x mage. I know it's favorable number for me but calculating with mage q7 buff correctly doubles so i'm pretty sure if we cut down favorable considerations we still can get to x20 :)

    I never said anything about overall comparison of ranger and mage dmg. I honestly think it's okayish with you being considerably superior on bosses and us in lesser degree on mobs. It's absolutely clear you have trash class if we cut down q7. We both know it - i just said that BP had to made totally balance broken q7 to negate your class disability. You may have 20x stronger q7 - which you have ;) - but your skillset pool is so terrible that it gets comparable. However this is longterm issue - mainly for your class but not only. Would be miles better if everybody had similar powerlevel Q7 and class balance would be done based on pure class atrributes not particular sets.
     
    DreamWill likes this.
  2. Devedolser

    Devedolser Forum Apprentice

    This is not fair for a long time ... This game based on dmg and skills type guards or control are useless and not compensated loss dmg so this is my opinion you have own and i respect it, i have friend ranger with 49k dmg i have 46k and i see differences (very big on boss) but just i focus on my mage not ranger i like play with rangers they are more fast and very good dps but yes i wanna stronger mages but not at the expense of rangers

    To day game for me is good balance but mages should be more strong then i dont need guards ... freeze etc :) i just will killing all in 2-3sec good mage can do that but differences are more visible on more weaknes players
     
    DreamWill likes this.
  3. Hetsunien

    Hetsunien Padavan

    It's funny how you people stick so hard to this nonsense dps calculations. First of all, those 10 seconds of continued damage doesn't apply for any boss fight, because you know, you have to dodge all the time.

    Second, you can't hide behind any invokation, because it lasts only a few hits on endgame difficulties (Note the fact that guardian is more resistant than the tree and can be summoned more frequently).

    Third, when in group, it doesn't matter who deals more damage, generally is RA > SW and in this case all those calcs applies if you have a DK to tank the Boss. But SW is more useful cause the double slow (singu + ice attack) than the double armor break of a RA.

    So yeah, on paper it looks nice all those nonsense xxx,xxx% vs xx,xxx% but in actual gameplay they're not that exact nor reliable.
     
    DreamWill likes this.
  4. DreamWill

    DreamWill Old Hand

    I calculated your buff for 9 seconds on 10, the 90% of the time, as your potential max damage, I know it's difficult but it isn't impossible, my judgement is based on what I saw, but in group of course it's easier, I said this thing too before:
    I don't know if it really works, with them and good CD runes you can spam singularity in 3-4 seconds I guess, so you can keep twice together, can you try this? I don't want to teach anyone, just curious if it could be an alternative.

    Really I haven't calculated q7 buff for this number, that is only an extreme case:
    It's impossible for 2 reasons: because mobs haven't 80% armor but 60% in fact using our special combo scattershot + EA armor comes down to 0% and I deal x2,5 dmg than normal hits (60% armor means only 40% of my dmg as output, x2,5= 100% so numbers are coherent), only bosses and maybe some minibosses have 80% armor, but they reach this value only with some spells, so the double-brak-armor (SS is weaker than EA) isn't enough to reach 0% armor on them, we need anothe strong B-A effect from other classes; and then I said that you have to use only your base skill all the time, you can not spam and make RA's dmg infinite times than yours if you want:D

    Really i disagree with this: i always thought that mage is better against bosses and ranger in maps because meteor, singularity, guardian and all these skills don't work good in map, and thicket of thornes, adrenaline and deadly blow make rangers really op here, ranger is the best class to clear maps, and the best against minibosses, while against bosses we lose thornes (best skill against groups), deadly blow (healing and refill of concentration, it makes q7 indifferent for maps) and the double break-armor works only during the phase2, rangers lose all their strengths against bosses except EA and we can use it only thanks to q7 set, without it we have to spam precision shot and our dps will be halved.
    Rangers have good skills, but with very strong constraints that limit their use only in specific scenarios, yours are more versatile.
    But I always forget that bosses are very different for you cause of elemental affinity, probably rangers are faster to kill them, but it's easier for you, and we know why:)

    to me is, what is unfair is this:
    That's exactly the problem: the gameplay is focused only on the damage and totally ignore buff/debuffs skills and other parameters, this is why a class like DK is so in disadvantage than others; to rebalance the game and make it more enjoyable they have to focus on these aspects too, and not look only the damage.

    are you sure? people know the real value of something only when they lose it:)
    Why don't you try a PW complete run removing guardian, mind control and frozen wind from your skillbar and play the "ranger-style", then tell me what is the difference in time with these skills and without them, but in a serious mode (according your stats at least inf1-2, better 3;)) and a serious map (q9), I am curious if they are so "useless":)
    you are totally right and I totally agree, but maybe you haven't read good, you have to say this to @.RakshaRanja.:p (sorry to call you, but you always do these calculations and better than me;)) I am aware of the real situation in fact I said this:
    The calculations are to prove that output dps isn't x20 more, and to demonstrate this I considered un unreachable number:
    and everyone knows this is only theoretical discussion.
    I lost time here because I almost stopped to play since r224 for 3 reasons that made this stupid maths more funny and interesting for me atm:D
     
    Hetsunien and DBS-Flamelurker like this.
  5. Devedolser

    Devedolser Forum Apprentice

    Ok you have right freeze and guard is very helpful but only for begginers very good mage just have good defense and he dodge attacks from monsters and kill them in 2-3sec

    And i know that rangers dont have good skills.. this is true they just need q7 to exist in the game or they are useless :) q7 give them new life in game and now are very strong :)

    Mage is good class today i dont need boost q7 or any change in sets because mage is not unwanted in teams haha contrary all want mage in team not is bad ;)

    If no one will want mage in team in future as in past rangers we get boost but today its very hard to winning (we not have enought arguments to have any change)



    Mage can today very slow down bosses this is very powerfull power... but only if boss not die in 15-20 sec :D
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
  6. DreamWill

    DreamWill Old Hand

    this is true in maps, but to the boss the guardian is very useful even for the strongest mages, and where many mobs spawn, like anniversary arena.
    many think this, but it's wrong:
    Rangers are simply totally unbalanced between maps and boss fights: we don't need q7 in maps (but I recognize that it's very op against minibosses, and greedy goblins in the lairs too), but we are dependant on it for bosses (especially khalys)
    maybe not a boost, but something to make it simpler, 60s CD on meteor is nonsense for me.

    The changes you need are to balance better the elements: freeze is good, lightning and especially fire skills need buff to be similar to your ice skills:)
     
  7. Devedolser

    Devedolser Forum Apprentice

    Yes 100% true .. mage spells is just not balance and need some change, with ranger is same they could change his skills but did q7 for rangers bec this was more easy way for fast help rangers
     
  8. KingsGambit

    KingsGambit Forum Expert

    You can't make all elements to the level of freeze as mage would be broken :p:rolleyes: Sphere is best skill in whole game by large exceed if you count effect/resource cost. Other 2 elements should be slightly weaker. For me mage needs serious buff to destruction, slight dmg buff to chain lightning and either lower recoil to meteor or massive boost to it's damage. That's all.

    You way overexaggerate rangers skills on map. It's nowhere close to mage without q7. On map mages basically use 3 buttons :rolleyes: Only with mini on tougher maps extra 2. If we really want we can play without keyboard :p
     
  9. Devedolser

    Devedolser Forum Apprentice

    Does any mage which have q7 and BM weapon 4x platinue(5x royale) can make test which weapon is more good for bosses? ;D
     
  10. KingsGambit

    KingsGambit Forum Expert

    One of our domestic mods - I think Tyche -posted that for 5x royals, max base values and platinum line. Idr but should be around +28% for blood if im not mistaken. Pure base dmg comparison. Dig it out anyway, was nicely counted.
     
  11. Devedolser

    Devedolser Forum Apprentice

    Also please add any good cloak herold screen i wanna see stats and is it good alternative for t8 legendary cloak
     
  12. Mad

    Mad Forum Apprentice

    hah only not experienced players use Bloodmag xd if you want lose buff from q7 its your choice ...
     
  13. KingsGambit

    KingsGambit Forum Expert

    It's rather opposite - in addition to fresh players only very experienced players use Bloodmage ;)
     
  14. DBS-Flamelurker

    DBS-Flamelurker Forum Great Master

    With BM you can more easily reach maximum speed and it has better damage without buff.

    With Q7 you have better damage during buffs.
     
  15. MRDarak31

    MRDarak31 Junior Expert

    Generally I do not want and I do not intend to enter into any discussions,
    want only introduce to you results whose final effect use the same data.

    I will only say that if we have the opportunity to reach the maximum speed threshold for our character,
    let us reach him at all costs.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  16. DreamWill

    DreamWill Old Hand

    It's exactly what I tried to say much time ago when I answered here: if you know how to play you can keep the buff almost all the time and at max speed (hard but possible) there is no chance for bm to compete with it.

    The only advantages bm have are easier way to reach the last breakpoint and more freedom with the equipment, and the possibility to use dragan and mortis's set together, which is impossible with q7.
     
    EmilyRose likes this.
  17. kapiszon123pl

    kapiszon123pl Forum Greenhorn

    Dream Will tell me how. Everything looks nice on paper but just write how to dress under q7 max speed. I have maximum runes (150%). I have perfect gloves(46,5%). I have mortis ring(10%) .I have the bonus of karrabossa set (11.11%). I have maximum speed in knowledge (24%). I have
    jewel of fury(15%). I have to put 3x6% speed in my coat to have Q7max speed. (delete 3 x dmg) No sense.
    Or.
    I have to remove the karrabossy belt and put on the premium belt. (karrabossa set 3x) Now I don't have mana with such high attack speed.
    No sense.

    Tell me how to have the maximum speed on q7 and the large amount of mana needed for such speed.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
    DBS-Flamelurker likes this.
  18. DreamWill

    DreamWill Old Hand

    You need +251% att speed to reach 3.64 with q7.
    This is the list of everything that gives attspeed (what I remember at least):
    • +150% runes;
    • +45% gloves;
    • +10% mortis;
    • +11,11% witch seeker;
    • +10% belt of zeal;
    • +5% q5 shoulders;
    • +5% q2 amulet (other 3-4% if not more uncrafted);
    • +6,66% ring of zeal (it gives hp not like mortis);
    • +15% jewel of rage
    • +9,2% uncrafted tear holder;
    • +30% crafted ado 4/4 (possible remove crit with offensive cloak);
    • +24% crafted cloak 4/4;
    • +16% dragan's pet;
    • probably new cloaks (if they ever come) with attack speed as unique line (I suppose around +8-9% at least )
    Of course you can't use all these things together, but this is to show that you can create several combinations to reach that +251% and don't say it's impossible because any ranger with q7 can do it, I can and without jewel of rage ;)
    The only no sense thing is to search dmg everywhere and sacrifice attack speed because the next breakpoint gives you more dps than any %dmg you can put, especially during q7 buff.
    belt of zeal + q1 torso and you get everything;) of course I recognize that isn't nice having attack speed dependent on stacks, but as you can see you have different ways:)
    You only have to use your imagination and know what to use and how to use it instead using standard receipts someone say without knowing what's going to do with that stuff because it isn't true that only those items are worth, especially now with all these new jewels.

    For you the easiest solution is crafting ado 4/4 speed and you reach 3.64 with q7 and you can remove mortis' ring doing this, without changing nothing, then the only problem is to get back that critical rate you lose:)
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
    EmilyRose likes this.
  19. EmilyRose

    EmilyRose Forum Pro

    In the same way with Blood rune, using resource potions....look at the video, the mage uses it ( blood rune + potion).... ;)
     
  20. blackassam

    blackassam Regular

    Nice video... "BUT" if they want to compare in the sense then under the conditions clear the entire map ... because one of the characters can run more and the other to refrain from changing when the mob beating along the way. Elemetary resistances are diverse from PW types, making it an ideal test for PW 6 Mortis. Great that they showed the individual costs of running characters (essences, elixirs ...) for the map. Perhaps one of the weaknesses of the supporting elixirs, where each class utilizes and the other is no longer needed or unusable.:rolleyes:

    These are far more interesting consumption figures, considering that a player should make 100 rounds. Purchase the necessary resources + and in the other case, special essences for events. :D:p
    The speed of the value at the cost of the load and resources used, probably something else if a player makes one round and should play normally in this way. I run into a class of Mages when they have to redeem potions to increase mana. The cost of completing the map for Mages as quickly as possible is abnormal. The cost of winning this round is too high compared to other classes.
    Thus, the time to complete the journey is irrelevant. It is conditional on the consumption of resources for operation. The Mags became buff mana slaves without hitting the bottom.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
    aBDuLHaMiTHaN likes this.

Share This Page