Need Help with calculation (Very bad at math)

Discussion in 'General Archive' started by Devlinne, Mar 18, 2017.

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  1. Devlinne

    Devlinne Forum Apprentice

    Hi everyone. As the title said, i need help with a decision on a 2 hand axe.

    Also please bear with me as I do not know how to screenshot and upload images.

    Ok so here we go. I got these 2 axes both ungemmed, both lvl 55, both legendary, that has the potential to replace my existing axe.

    I have a 2hand axe with: 142.16% Increased Damage + 70.88% Increased damage on this item. Top "White" dmg is 210-400

    I have a 2hand axe with: 42.83% Increased Damage + 127.87% Increased damage on this item. +21% crit dmg. Top "White" dmg is 277-467

    M question is, which is better after gemming damage runes?

    I have the gems to fill the axes with +29dmg runes.

    I can't test it cause unfortunately these 2 axes arent 4 socket. so i will have to spend ander to open sockets. Don't wanna spend twice just to find out which is better.

    Please help. Thank You.
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
  2. Novadude

    Novadude Commander of the Forum

    What are the base crit lines on the axes? Are they both level 55? How many slots are there?

    I'm guessing the first one is 1x increased damage on this item, 3x increased damage and the second one is 2x increased damage on this item, 1x increased damage and 1x crit damage?

    My immediate feeling is that the second one will be better since it has the highest base stats and highest increased damage on this item modifier.
  3. GodChronos

    GodChronos Forum Expert

    Or maybe its best to use it, but not open any sockets just yet. I'm not sure about the crit dmg line.
  4. Devlinne

    Devlinne Forum Apprentice

    Thank you for the help. Yes both Axes are lvl 55 legendary with built in 1600 Crit rate. The 1st axe has 2 slots, the other has 1.

    You are aboslutely right about the stats on the axes.

    I am not sure which to use, as I dunno if the "Increased damage on this item" percentage will exceed the "Increased damage" when i put all 4 +29 dmg gems into it.

    So confusing Q_Q. I have no idea how to calculate....Please help all ye of abundant knowledge! :)
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
  5. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    First, here is the screen shot guide.

    Now, reference the items:
    My instincts say the first one, but there are some additional variables that I don't have to be able to rightly address your question since the % Damage vs % Damage on this item lines are so different.

    For example:
    What is your knowledge level, and how are your points spent in damage? I could assume the end game approach of 10 in Behemoth and 25 in % damage, but you need to understand that this is a factor.

    Second, are you using any other unique gear sets that offer % damage like boosts? In particular, the Black Warlord set or Bellicose sets would have significant impact here.

    What is your total crit (including the 1600 from the base crit on the axe) because that helps determine if the 21% crit damage is enough to make a difference (I doubt it, but I like being thorough)?

    What other gear do you have that offers % Damage (Helmets, Torsos, Belts, etc) since those work in the same step as the % Damage on the weapon? The more % Damage you have from other gear, the less valuable % Damage from a weapon becomes.

    Thanks for reminding me that I need to rewrite my guide about "Ideal 2H Weapons" since the gear has changed so much and the stats on weapons are also very different.
    Devlinne likes this.
  6. Devlinne

    Devlinne Forum Apprentice

    Thank you so much for replying Baragain and apologies for the delay in my reply. I was out for most of the day.

    Please see my answers below and once again. THANK YOU!!!

    Ok, I've answered all the questions. If you have more please feel free to ask and I shall provide whatever information you need.

    Thank You again. People like you are the reason i still play this wretched game. ^__^
  7. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Well, I'm just about to call it a night. The only reason I wasn't asleep an hour ago is because that armor thread got my attention.
    I'll take a look tomorrow and see what I see.
    Yogo likes this.
  8. Yogo

    Yogo Forum Great Master

    Thank you Baragain for your help- it is much appreciated.
    Nostradamus88 likes this.
  9. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    While working through the calculations, I realized that I also needed any damage you have on items (damage from new armor or accessories), any rubies you have on your decoration, any damage you get from other runes and any other crit damage lines you have. Some runes (Like the old 30 crit/15 max damage) and gear give max damage and min damage, so please show min/max. I've started the calculations and when you get me those last few lines, I should be able to wrap it up rather easily.
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
    Devlinne likes this.
  10. Devlinne

    Devlinne Forum Apprentice

    Thanks again bro. I'm grateful for the help.
  11. GodChronos

    GodChronos Forum Expert

    Seeing this post actually reminded me I was working on a program that allowes you to choose items and it will tell you your stats, I probably should return working on it. If I do finish it one day, I can give you it if you would like it.
  12. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Here we go.

    Weapon 1Weapon 2
    1. Base Damage: 210-400
    2. Base Damage with Rubies: 355-545
    3. % Damage on this Item (DotI): 70.88%
    4. Base Damage after % DotI: 606.62-931.30
    5. Damage Black Warlord and Behemoth: 1091.62-1676.34
    6. Base Character Damage: 360
    7. Raw Damage from Gear or rubies not in weapon: 121-131
    8. Total Base Damage: 1572.62-2167.34
    9. Total % Damage from Weapon: 142.16%
    10. Total % Damage from Gear: 16.3%+4%+50%=70.3%
    11. Total % Damage: 212.46%
    12. Displayed Damage on Character Page: 4913.81-6772.07
    13. Total Crit Damage: 30% (x2.30)
    14. Total DPH (ignoring Speed): 8375 Average Damage Per Hit
    15. Damage and DPH with Blues: 6487-8939/ 11056 DPH
    16. Damage and DPH with Purples: 8060-11106/ 13737 DPH
    17. Damage and DPH with Reds: 9633-13273/ 16417 DPH
    1. Base Damage: 277-467
    2. Base Damage With Rubies: 422-612
    3. % Damage on this Item (DotI): 127.87%
    4. Base Damage after % DotI: 961.61-1394.56
    5. Damage Black Warlord and Behemoth: 1730.90-2510.21
    6. Base Character Damage: 360
    7. Raw Damage from Gear or rubies not in weapon: 121-131
    8. Total Base Damage: 2211.90-3001.21
    9. Total % Damage from Weapon: 42.38%
    10. Total % Damage from Gear: 16.3%+4%+50%=70.3%
    11. Total % Damage: 112.68%
    12. Displayed Damage on Character Page: 4704.27-6382.97
    13. Total Crit Damage: 51% (x2.51)
    14. Total DPH (Ignoring Speed): 8334 Average Damage Per Hit
    15. Damage and DPH with Blues: 6916-9384/ 12253 DPH
    16. Damage and DPH with Purples: 9128-12385/ 16172 DPH
    17. Damage and DPH with Reds: 11340-15386/ 20090 DPH
    In case you are interested, the damages in line 8 are the damages that your essences work on. If you have blues on, you will gain that damage, with purples you will gain 2x that line, and reds will give you 3x that line. That is why I included lines 15, 16, and 17 to show you the weakening effect on essence that large % damage modifiers on your weapons can have. While the first one offers better base damage (Line 12) and slightly better DPH (Line 14) with no essence (and DPS if you multiply that by your attack speed), the fact that more often than not you will be using blue essence or higher in the PWs means that I'd recommend going with the second one since it ends up significantly more powerful (10%-20%) once you are using % based essences.

    It turns out that my instincts were half right. It did have the higer base damage and the higher DPH/DPS, but that is why we do math and math led us to an important conclusion that some people who are always chasing the biggest damage numbers may otherwise miss

    Minor corrections to my math that do not effect the outcome.
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
  13. Devlinne

    Devlinne Forum Apprentice

    I have no words. The Proness.....she is....beautiful...Q__Q

    Thank You my friend. I WEEP for this game if you and traki ever quit. The DEVS or someone from BP should be helping like this!

    If ever I were in a position to help you. Just let me know!
  14. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    It is a labor of love. I love the game, I love math, I love the DK class, and I love the community. That is the only reason I do what I do.
  15. bLaind

    bLaind Forum Baron

    HA! I knew it, I was right (not that I posted... it)! Increased weapon damage (idoti) is better.:D
  16. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    In this case. I'm still thinking that for 1h builds, and maybe hammer builds, it might be closer. I need to still do the more broad experimentation and to do that, I need to rebuild my excel sheet from the beginning.
  17. Nostradamus88

    Nostradamus88 Active Author

    And what about 2h? What is the best Choice? 3x%dmg on weapon + 1x%dmg total or 2 and 2?
  18. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    So far, I'd say 4x% IDotI until I can do the deep dive into the math.
  19. Grasschewer

    Grasschewer Forum Apprentice

    no firm values.
    So much time wasted in ID of all items
    My DK uses a green(improved) item and EVERY item of its type tells me its better.
    Given its chosen on +dmg and slots its very hard to replace.
    Does it do % then yes its easy.
    If Math is possible without values(certain things like Pies :) ) then good Luck!
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