Feedback New Skill Talents

Discussion in 'General Archive' started by teddy.bear, Aug 6, 2015.

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  1. shadow-whisper

    shadow-whisper Forum Mogul

    So the texts were changed to english and I have to say they are very annoying. Not sure if its the final version of the text or not, but hopefully its not another change just for a sake of change ...

    What I am talking about ? The bonuses that add 50% of something is written as "half" instead of "50%". It makes things extremely misleading :
    1. all other values have written % in number, only if the bonus is 50% it´s written as half
    2. There can be more bonuses to one skill, and being one bonus written in number and another one written verbaly is a bit stupid. Let´s take Destruction, the mages skill as an example. The upgrade for 5 points says it increases the damage by half. And then I can get full Ammon set which will give me bonus that adds 33% more damage to destruction. Now if I would be a new player and didn´t know the game properly, I would not understand if those bonuses stack, or only the one with bigger effect is aplied.
    If both are written in numbers, 50%+33% = +83% increased damage, it´s obvious those stack.

    So please, make all texts sound same, otherwise it will become a mess. It´s a small detail, but those matter too.

    Edit : There is actually more of those - Thorn wall - Curse of the Druids upgrade - deal triple of your basic damage ? That´s even more stupid, why not simply keep the numbers and write 300% ?

    But to not be only negative, I like you showed the % damage of wolves, guardian etc. Though the wolves look to be bugged, or the description is wrong, because it says they deal 40% of my base damage, but they deal exactly the same damage as I do with my hunting arrow, which is 60% ?
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2015
  2. bendover

    bendover Junior Expert

    Nobody noticed that ranger's best and most useful talent: the thorns - has been nerfed from 6 seconds to 3 seconds. Now you have only 3 seconds to kill the mobs in order for them to explode. Otherwise, 3 seconds pass and then it's useless, you won't get that explosive chain reaction where all the mobs explode. Now you have to use this skill for finishing off the mobs, you have to shoot it in the beginning once to slow them down and then shoot again once when the mobs have like 15-20% hp. Sure it's easy to kill normal mobs in 3 seconds, but parallel world mobs will be impossible to kill so fast. Especially with the new crit nerf. Everyone is complaining that rangers are op but they don't realize our most important skill has been nerfed. Sure armour break is nice and very useful but it has a low radius of explosion of only 3.2 meters and it's only for 3 seconds in pve. It's not like mage vortex - 8 seconds x 2 (with mind control) and vortex also deals dmg after the armour break. Also (I'm not sure about this), but I think that the explosive shot only does big damage to 1 monster, but only about half of that damage to the surrounding mobs, with the explosion. It also requires 50 concentration. On the other hand, precision slices through the entire group of marked mobs which is why it's hard to choose now between using the precision or using the new explosive arrow. But I guess in a group, the explosive arrow will be very useful because it stacks with the armour break of the other classes. The 40% dmg with adrenaline nerf is also very annoying.

    The deadly blow is useful now with the 10% regen but most people look at 7% speed x3 and they think it's so op. Well it would be op if it weren't for the stupid speed breakpoints. You see, its usefulness depends on your current speed. If I have for example 1.6 (which is a speed breakpoint for skills with animation frames of 20, like the deadly blow, precision shot, fireball etc), and I hit deadly blow 1 time, then my speed will be 1.67... but in fact my speed is still the same (1.6) because it hasn't reached the breakpoint yet. Then the second blow: 1.74, now it changes the speed because this is a breakpoint (according to the forums). Nice so I've got to the next breakpoint after 2 deadly blow hits but now the third one is useless. My new speed will be 1.81 but it won't change the actual speed because the next breakpoint is 1.91 So people think: wow, rangers get 21% more speed... when in fact we get in some cases only 14% speed or even only 7% (?), it really depends. Maybe it would be possible to reach 2 speed breakpoints while using deadly blow but that would mean your base speed would have to be close to the next breakpoint. You would really need to tweak your speed and test different builds to get the most out of the deadly blow and at the same time to not waste those speed points unnecesarily. But then the tweaking could interfere with the perfect speed for the other skills which have an animation frame of 15 (like the green arrow), but that would be important more in pvp than in pve, since in pve green arrow is not so important.

    Overall I think you improved the ranger, but I can not say for sure yet. I need to test it on the live server with my ranger, not one of those useless 823482374stable chars which have no gems, no uniques, no knowledge points and which die in 2 seconds.

    Mages got insane damage with 2h weapons now. I think it's possible for them to get 3-4k dmg maybe. They can also use the dragan set since crit has been nerfed anyway. So they can forget about crit and go for the damage and also have good armour from the dragan set and 30% more dmg with 2h weapons. Imagine how awesome is to throw a vortex and then shoot an attack dealing 750% dmg with blue essence. It kills everything instantly. I'd much rather use 2h weapon with 50% more dmg than use longbow and quiver. You just can't get the same dps from a longbow and quiver like you can get from an op 2h staff. I think mages were the kings in pvp before this update, while tanks were the kings in pve. Rangers were just the black sheep begging to be invited to groups. Sure you could be very strong as a ranger too, but for that you needed a lot of time and good gear to compensate for the lack of armour break. But to be strong as a mage or tank you didn't need as much as a ranger needed. But after this update, we'll have to see how the balanced has been tipped and in favour of which class.

    And please stop saying "double damage" all the time, use your brain. For pve: Precision shot is 150% x 2 = 300% and lightning chain is 250% and with 33% more from the charge, it's 330% I think, which is more than 300% from the precision so 300% is not double compared to 330%
    The advantage of the precision is that it shoots through the entire group of marked mobs while the lightning strike deals max dmg to only 3-4 mobs and then it hits less dmg to the others. But it actually deals more damage because of the vortex so actually mages are the ones who hit "double damage" -.- and they also constantly replenish the mana with the magic missile, while rangers have to run around in circles until their concentration is full again.

    And for pvp: yes, precision apparently deals double damage compared to your fireball. But in practice fireball hits about 70%-80% -90% of the damage of precision most of the times, since the fireball deals more resistance damage than physical dmg and it also has 3 burns which deal 100% resistance dmg. Also it's much easier to land and the mana regenerates much faster. But there is no "double damage", that's just disinformation, please inform yourself before repeating like parrots. If rangers will get 1 skill which deals 10% dmg and with mark it will deal triple damage (30%), the people will say " omg triple damage, it's so op"

    Also rangers had 25% more weapon dmg before (and tanks 40% with 2h), while mages had 0%... but now mages also get 50% like everyone else, but they are the ones complaining the most.
    Also you say that you need to spend a lot of points in order to use some abilities which were given by default before the release. Well so do all the other classes.

    I don't know yet if the very low amount of points is a good or bad thing. It's possible that it will make things more interesting but at the same time it can be very limiting. You have to use your points very careful and you definitely have to sacrifice some skills which you were accustomed to using before the release.

    All in all, these were just opinions at first sight, I will need to test with my real char on the live server to say more.

    Also, I hope the developers won't take into consideration every biased opinion of every kid who expresses their limited viewpoint without looking from all angles and without informing themselves. Look mostly at opinions of people who can see the entire picture objectively.

    Most people look only at the elephant's trunk and say it's a big snake, while only a few take a few steps back and see the entire elephant.

    EDIT: Oh and one last thing which I think is very important. Most people will be opposed to the new system because most people are opposed to new things that force them to change their habits and their old way of playing. They just want something they are familiar with, they don't want to change their 3-4 year old patterns of playing. Even before testing things out they just take a quick look and say things like "this game will be dead if they release it to the live servers, nobody will play anymore, bigpoint will lose our money because we'll all quit" But people said that many times and nothing happened. Now I'm not saying the people working on the game are perfect, in fact many times I swear when I get bugs and crashes in the game and I'm not saying the owners are not greedy that they'll do anything to squeeze the last penny out of the players. BP is not a saint, we all know it but that doesn't mean you shouldn't appreciate the hard work the developers and designers have put into creating this new content expansion and skill system. It's more complex than it seems and if you think you can do better, then you go ahead and create a game like this and see how far you can go. And sure many think they can create a "balanced" system, they think it's easy and they come up with retarded suggestions like "oh yeah, just take away ranger's marking abilities so they don't do "double damage" anymore or nerf mage's "resistance" damage so they don't do so much damage with that fireball in pvp or nerf the tanks so they don't have so much hp and armour etc etc"

    When everyone was used to using windows XP, then vista came out and everyone was like "what is this &^%# ? " And it was true that vista was crap in my opinion, it was slow, ate a lot of memory etc... but without vista we wouldn't have had windows 7 which I think is an improvement over XP.
    So you see, the people working on this game are making an effort to make a change (or so it seems), to improve things and yes this may lead to an initial phase where things are apparently getting worse but this allows the developers and designers to see what works and what doesn't and tweak the system and improve it until it becomes like windows 7 compared to wind XP. So instead of complaining and taking it for granted, you could look at the bright side and be eager to play new maps, see if the new skills and system will be more fun and better than the old. Also it will change the status quo. Meaning that the distance between very old players and new players will be shortened (not by very much, but from what I can see the only difference between olds and news will be the glyphs and gems and maybe some op weapons and shields and also many rewards from all the events that the old players have participated to, over the years, which the new players didn't get. So yeah, old players will still be maybe 20-30% better but the difference will not be huge as it was before)
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2015
  3. matami

    matami Someday Author

    usually i don't argue other peoples opinions but seems that you have wrong information here. it sure reads that thorns poison is shortened to 3s but still enemies make the 3xexplode when you kill them right before thorns end. same thing in adrealine.... it reads that it does -40% dmg but it still does the 100%... conclusion, atm there are only text bugs to be honest :)
    and PS and lightning cannot really compare other one flies thru screen and other makes small dot where it hits. nowadays everyone have lot running speed what makes lightning totally useless at least in pvp.. and fireball/smash/PS are all level 3 skills so maybe that is why they are comparable better, i dont know?
  4. bendover

    bendover Junior Expert

    Well, you may be right about the thorns, it can get confusing when they write something in the skill description and then something else happens when you actually play. But either way this was not my point. If the 3 second is only a text error then I'll be very happy if they'll leave the thicket of thorns to be like before (6 seconds). Regarding adrenaline, hmm, it would also be awesome not to nerf it. I mostly commented based on the information I got from the skill descriptions because while I was actually playing, I wasn't paying attention at the damage I dealt, I trusted that the skills would do what they were supposed to do in the description. Silly me, next time I won't believe the descriptions until I test them thoroughly.

    And about fireball... I specifically compared precision to the lightning strike only for pve. Because in pve rangers use PS and mages use lightning strike. And for pvp I compared PS vs fireball, because that's how many mages play, with fireballs in pvp. You said that everyone has high running speed in pvp. Precisely! that's the reason why fireball is so good, because sometimes it's hard as a ranger to both mark and then precision shot an enemy with high running speed (not to mention useless stuns) while mages can spam fireballs and have instant stuns and then run. I'm not saying it's impossible to mark and then shoot PS, in fact it happens often, but not as easy as mages hit with a fireball. Maybe we could compare the 2 skills like this: Precision shot hits maybe 20-30% more (but it depends on the enemy's armour and resistance) but at the same time it's 20-30% harder to land than a fireball and its radius is also much smaller. These are not exact numbers, I'm just estimating according to what I feel would be the right numbers. It also depends on your skill, style of play, strategy and experience (also good gear). I found you generally need more defense as a ranger since you'll get hit more times when playing vs a mage.
  5. -Aporie

    -Aporie Forum Greenhorn

    As far as I can see the negative effect of Adrenaline was removed completely. The explosion of Thicket of Thorns killed enemies just before it vanished, from my count 6 seconds after I used it. I also took a look at the descriptions, but couldn't find anything which would contradict the Adrenaline-theory. You are right though, the 3 seconds regarding the Thicket of Thorns explosion are mentioned, but in my opinion they either forgot to implement it or someone was dreaming while writing these texts.... A lot of things still seem to be quite unfinished in this expansion.
  6. fab

    fab Advanced

    Rangers precision shot is fast like hell, if you think landing a fireball is much much more than you think and the damage is so pathetic.
    This have been mention many times and in a exchange fire between Ra and sw, players using a sw will definitely lose out more than a ra.
    Stop being so selfish and think of other players too
    For onxy gems the crit value for royal gem shouldnt be that low ( 250 ) as its so expensive just to get 1 of them
    Its value should be raise up to at least the minimum of 400-450 in critical values and that should encourage players with crit build buy more of those gems.
  7. Red_Jaeger

    Red_Jaeger Junior Expert

    A few more ideas I had as feedback on skills:

    War -> The new war cry talent is nice for speed farming and having to refresh it every 10 seconds gets you motivated to go faster and faster. It would be nice if it would increase the walking speed per hit monster too though. Not too much, so it wont be abused in the arena, but like 0.2% per monster shouldn't be that bad. It would only allow the war to move somewhat faster when farming, like charge to support an ally or meet the next group of monsters before his/hers allies do.

    About the ranger, I met one with very high speed and he was doing terrible dmg by just spraying green arrows all around. Then I found out that the green arrows now do poison dmg. If you do not have very high resistances, as armor ceases to matter, these actually can do more dmg that marked red arrows. This might get abused in the arena. I am not sure about this though, it was just one guy, it might have been pure chance.

    For everyone: The fame and wisdom talent points seem OK but the skill points feel somewhat too few for a lvl50 player. Perhaps a second point should be given per 5-10 lvls, allowing a maximum of 55-60 points at lvl50.
  8. bendover

    bendover Junior Expert

    Really? I thought PS and fireball had the same flying speed :/... where did you get the idea of the precision being faster? Maybe you are right, but I would like to see your evidence. I even logged in now both on my ranger and then on my mage and tested this and visually the speed seems to be the same, but I may be wrong :/

    Second... fireball pathetic and hard to land? ... I'm not saying it's easy to hit... all hits are hard to hit when you have an inteligent enemy who is moving in all directions unpredictably and also attacking you at the same time, but it's definitely easier to hit than precision and with a bigger radius. I've been hit with 3k fireballs (and I have 5k armour and 1300 resistance on my ranger 45) and another 3 burns after the initial 3k. OP tanks with 6-7k armour and 2k resistance are getting hit by strong mages with 1500-1900 with fireball (or even more). If you think mages are weak come to swerfield in heredur, you'll see machine guns mages killing everything. That's not to say that they're better than the other classes or that you won't also see rangers or tanks killing everything, but I'm just saying mages are not weak and their fireball is not pathetic. This mage hit me once in swerfield with 2k fireball and he also had 2.73 speed, plus he also spammed magic missile which has nice dmg and also replesishes your mana. My 7k hp vanished in 3-4 seconds. Rangers generally hit me 4k-5k, but of course it depends... there are rangers with 600 dmg and rangers with 1500 or 2000 dmg. The same goes for mages. Now of course you probably have low damage and that's why your fireball seems pathetic.

    I'm not saying which class wins more when they fight vs each other. It's not that easy to tell because you would need to have 1 ranger and 1 mage with similar stats. I don't see my arguments as being selfish, I only defended the ranger a little because some said the new skills make the class very op, but at the same time I am also trying to analyze things from different angles and sides.

    Also the balance of the classes depends on the amount of money you put in. Meaning that a f2p ranger will generally be stronger than a f2p mage.
    But p2p mage is a killing machine gun with high moving speed, high damage, good crit chance and crit dmg, instant stuns and instant debuff / escape skills + a mage with 2.73 (or higher speeds which p2p mages achieve) can spam lightning chain in 5vs5 and constantly stun you, it's so annoying.

    Regarding onyx gems, they already increased the values. Now instead of 80 for a polished you will have 120 I think (or 160, I'm not sure), but either way I think they'll still be useless with the new crit nerf. Maybe increase them even more, like a polished onyx could have maybe 240 crit or something like that, but that's up to the devs to decide.

    By the way, I think they said in one twitch video that they did some kind of pvp tournaments to test the new system and skills. Now apparently they are doing their best to test the new mechanics of the game and see how balanced pvp is. That's not to say that the people doing and testing this are infallible, but I think they have reasons for most (if not all) of the little nerfs or little annoying things they've done to every class in terms of pvp, it's not like they just throw out some skills without testing (or at least I hope they're not doing that).

    Now, I think I've given an informed, inteligent answer to the best of my knowledge and ability, but it's up to you to decide whether you want to think objectively or continue to see things from a limited perspective with ideas based on too little data / experiences. I think your main problem is that you didn't have time to find good gear yet. Good gear can change your perspective overnight and enemies in the arena which seemed impossible before, now become easier to play against


    That's the thing with the low points, you just don't know what to choose, you have to be very careful in your decisions on choosing certain skills. For example: yes, improved green arrows which deal 66% poison damage, that's cool, but it costs 15 points to fully improve the green arrows. OK, then you need to improve fully either the precision or explosive arrow (or a combination of the 2), that's another 15-20 points, now you're down to 25-30 points. You also really really need to invest points in the escape talents, that will cost another 10-15 points maybe. Then what about stuns? bird? wolves? deadly blow? blade dance, thicket of thorns, scatter shot? You just can't use all of these in the same build because you don't have enough points, even though they've improved some of them.
    The same goes for all the other classes, I think it's really interesting, I think I like it but I have to wait until it hits the live servers so I can play and see if I like it more than before.

    But for pve it will be a different story, because they nerfed all of us, but I don't know if they nerfed the monsters too. Maybe pve will be much harder or it may not be if they give us very nice items / sets at level 50.
    Last edited by moderator: Aug 16, 2015
    Kráčajúci likes this.
  9. Shiladitya

    Shiladitya Padavan

    I do not not understand one thing, there seems to be more interest in what other classes strength's and weaknesses are than what you would want to change in your own major class. If one class seems to be doing certain things easier then immediately 100's of hand will go to bring that advantage down. you wont ask for equalization in the way to make your own class stronger, instead make the other class weaker.

    AND why do people who don't specialize in a particular class have to give ADVICE how to better that class?
    Someone said give the warrior 0.2% extra travel speed on the new skill per mob killed "but not too much so that it doesn't get abused in pvp", what do you know about a warrior? Do you have an endgame warrior that you specialize in and which could compete against the best players of your server? If you are being kind after seeing the useless new skill that the warriors have been given then thank you, but warriors as thought of by many are "OP" enough in PvE without a useless travel speed boost for a single opponent. On what basis did you decide 0.2% travel speed for a single opponent is enough? and how would that "0.2% per opponent" be useful in 1v1 or 3v3? Why should warriors accept a skill/useless value addition, which is slightly useful in PVE and useless in PVP or vice versa? Again you stated a ranger's arrow shot has been changed to poison damage hence "it is dealing too much damage and can be abused in pvp" without even knowing anything else. Please concentrate on your own class and give feedback of what you want to see better in your class. You don't have to drag other classes down.If you feel your class is having some disadvantage then give feedback to make that better.
    I know the feedback is being heard and noted and changes are being made and Thank You for that Mod team but please make sure the feedback you pass on is relevant for classes and feedback by jack of all trades people should be counted more as generalist feedback and not primary feedback as pertaining to skills specially.


    According to some being weaker than before "will be interesting" "will be challenging" ...what?? if you want a challenge ask to make the mobs stronger ask them to give harder bosses. The whole point of the expansion as stated again and again by DSO has been to "not take anything away, but to ADD a lot more" instead some of you feel that getting weaker (having lesser points etc) would be challenging? Is that a joke?
    babu_o_babu and Minota like this.
  10. Darwarren

    Darwarren Count Count

    The entire game is being nerfed. What is lost is greater than what is gained.
    That would make it smoother to play, if and only if the program was sound, and lag wasn't a problem. LMAO. They haven't been able to do that for years, so now has no better outlook.
    DSO & BigPoint have a company history, a reputation for being frustrating. Personally, having BigPoint steal my 5 million badges of honor will effect my game play. DSO thought play was harsh before? Ludicrous.
  11. Red_Jaeger

    Red_Jaeger Junior Expert

    What you are stating here is rather hilarious. You do not know what kind of characters and of what level I have, yet you question that I have experience with either a Dragon Knight or a Ranger. I wonder, how exactly did you arrive to that conclusion? As a matter of fact, I happen to have one of the strongest DKs in the game and I happen to play with a lvl50 DK in the test server for the past 2 weeks.

    The new skill is actually very good for farming and, since you are calling it "useless", I am pretty sure that you are the one who has no idea of what he is talking about. Apparently, you are making comments on a skill that you never actually used, if you even play with a DK to begin with. With the war cry, you can very well maintain a constant +20% critical and attack speed, as well as a health bonus for you AND your allies, for a whole farming map if you move fast enough. The bonus is per hit and the timer resets every time you use the skill again. You can get in PvP, especially in 1v1, and just attack with the basic skill upgraded for maximum rage and DMG. That would get you a critical and speed bonus from the war cry, plus regeneration, plus even more speed and running speed from the basic talent. And I am suggesting that the new skill should give more running speed as well, albeit I am considering it for farming purposes. If it would give too much running speed, in conjunction with the fact that the skill lasts 10 seconds, a DK would only have to get in a few quick hits, grab the flag, turn on the dragon skin and run back to his base. With +25% running speed from the wisdom tree and a couple of good items, if you add +10-15% speed more, then a DK can easily reach the flag before the dragon skin expires. Just a simple abuse example, which apparently you did not think of.

    Besides, you are calling a skill "useless", I am commenting asking something positive to be added to it, and you still complain about that as well. Instead of complaining about everything, how about you try and think of "useful" additions and or changes that you would like to see?

    About the ranger, I clearly stated that I met just one person who was doing too much DMG with simple green arrow shots. And it makes sense. The red arrow's DMG, even when marked, has to go through armor. The green arrow's poison DMG now ignores armor and makes a poison resistances check. With most players having resistances at 30% or less of their armor value, it does not take a genius to realize that the basic ranger attack, which has no cooldown or concentration costs, can be dealing far too much DMG for just a simple attack, especially with a very high speed weapon.

    Furthermore, it is egoistical and plain silly to be making assumptions and suggestions based on chars that "can compare against the best players in the server". I definitely do not need the new skill for farming and I can easily farm every map solo. Hell, I can even solo Mortis with blue essence all day if I want. Because I can do that, it does not mean that every one of the other 10.000 DKs in the server can. I am not making suggestions that would help me farm Mortis even faster, I am making suggestions that someone who levels up now or who just got to lvl45-50 and can play just a few hours per week will find useful. The game does not revolve around the top 10 characters of the PvP list you know.

    I would refrain from making comments about other people if I were you, especially without thinking things through. You are free to make comments about your own experience, but you should not embarrass yourself by judging the experience of others.


    Actually, I know may sound very silly, but it most likely is because many people do not have the ability to compute percentages correctly. For example, many times I saw people saying things like "Ohhh, the X skill does 500% DMG, the talent adds 50%, that's 550% DMG!". The cannot understand that it stands for 500%+50% = 750%, sometimes even after you explain it to them.

    They also cannot realize how much of an increase a percentile change is, or they get confused when they are not paying attention / are tired / all things like that. Like with the critical DMG. Most people could not calculate that triple damage is +200%, not +300%.

    It is easier for someone to comprehend terms like "double, triple, etc" rather than doing maths with percentages.

    Edit: I should add that I don't like it either...
    Last edited by moderator: Aug 16, 2015
  12. Mal3ficent

    Mal3ficent Guest

    Fellow players, use the edit button instead of making consecutive posts.
    From now on every consecutive post will be removed.
  13. Shiladitya

    Shiladitya Padavan

    Here comes the messiah of all DK's. All hail the one "who thinks of others but cannot think of himself". The whole point of a skill is one that people would find useful in every phase of the game, be it new DK or Endgame DK, PVE or PVP . Let the DK's who are growing now give their own feedback. They too will become endgame DK's one day without your all enlightening feedback. The very fact that you are so proud of having the potential to do mortis all day with blue essence gives a clear idea of how strong a DK you are.

    If you read what I said, I have quoted the new skill as partially useful for farming and useless in 1v1 and 3v3. I was one of the first people to give feedback about the DK skill after playing the DK on test server On live server I have DK lvl 45 which is the the only char I have built up both as a free player farming a lot and afterwords as a payer farming a lot and doing pvp a lot. Your comment of "hit a few players grab flag and run with 25% travel speed and other items and the skill" again proves you have no experience of being a balanced DK and playing against the top players in your server, and not even a specialist flag runner since if you were you would understand that according to how the new fame and knowledge talents have been built you can already be a broken flag runner, and the new skill wont be helping you in anyway in that except some regen. Speaking of 1v1, with the new changes, those people who already have 60-70% travel speed before release 155, on arena specially rangers/Sw's will have massive advantage with the new knowledge tree and skills, where as the new skill for DK's wont have any sort of positive impact on that scenario. If you think you will just use the basic skill upgraded to glory, how many swings do you think you will get in against your opponent for a positive impact of the new skill to make a difference to the net result with 0.25% attack speed, 0.2% travel speed and 0.25% chance of crit against someone who knows how to be constantly on the move inspite of stuns? This skill will be useful against large mobs, I agree but DK's dont need that, what they need is a skill that would enhance their gameplay in all aspects of the game PVE and PVP, not just make them able to do maps with large number of mobs faster because the only thing that any DK might "need" from the new skill for farming is the crit rate buff after the crit rate gets nerfed and that also is useless fighting against single bosses.
    I have already given my feedback about the new skill for DK soon after release 155 on test server, and after watching twitch, I know for a fact that it got implemented. However you having no experience of balance, having no experience of certain facets of PVP are giving your unwanted opinion on what "amount" (0.2%?) of certain things to add as if you have had 15 years of game development experience.

    Yet you wont suggest to raise the amount of poison resistance from Dragon Hide to compensate for that. You HAVE to suggest "NOOOOO that skill wil be abused in PVP and is OPPPPPP Plleaseeeeeeeee remove it" Ofcourse since you are a "strong DK" I assume you arent fighting for other classes.

    You should refrain from making comments because you think of yourself to be the top gamer as well as the top game developer, that sort of thinking is mentally challenged and should be protested against. Also you should start thinking of how your own major class would be advantaged/disadvantaged in PVE as well as PVP and then start suggesting specific skills to compensate(such as you suggested "travel speed") not how much amount , since you would have no idea of how that affects what aspects of the game, let the game developers figure that part out.

    Please dont mark me on any of your further replies as I wont be arguing with your point of view any more, I have already put my point across to count your feedback as "generalist" feedback instead of class relevant feedback. Good Luck to you in game.
  14. Red_Jaeger

    Red_Jaeger Junior Expert

    Well, I never claimed that I am the "messiah" of anything, neither I asked to be "hailed". You are the only one confused here. Your first argument was that "I have no experience with a top lvl char". Now that I said that I do, your argument shifted 180° and became "you're too op to have an opinion, let those who lvl up now decide". Because I just signed up, got into the game and found myself to have a lvl45 character with the rank of grand marshal. :p

    Furthermore, classifying my opinion as "unwanted", whining about something I never claimed and suggesting that the Dragon Hide should "have its poison resistance increased" adds even more to my argument - you have zero personal experience whatsoever and you are just here to complain and whine. I will skip entirely the "unwanted opinion" part, as that pretty much by itself designates you as a fascist (sorry, that's the exact classification for those who decide whose opinion is wanted and whose is not). The Dragon Hide is just fine, it increases all resistances above 80%. And I never once said that the poison damage should be removed or even reduced; I merely made a remark based on just one person I met, I clearly noted that it was just one case, and expressed my worries. I did not make a single suggestion other than checking it out. And, considering that I saw mages getting to 2500-5000 DMG without much trouble, it seems that my worries were ill placed as well...

    Basically, what you are suggesting, aside from that the opinion of others is unwanted and yours is not I mean, is that you want "perfect balance" and a skill that can be gloriously used in any type of PvP match and PvE as well. Across the entire game too. For a skill that becomes available at lvl45 (wait, what?). My "unwanted" opinion is that no class can be perfectly balanced for everything and no skill can be perfect for all types of PvP matches and PvE. The new skill is just fine for farming and bosses, you can easily maintain a 20% speed and critical bonus when tanking a boss, plus it gives a health bonus to you and your allies. And it is perfectly usable in 1v1 and 3v3 as well, but you obviously do not have either the experience or the intellect to comprehend that. With health regeneration and no cooldown, you can use the War Cry and constantly regenerate in 1v1 and 3v3 matches after the timer has run out. That's what DK's already do when they cannot easily overpower their opponent. In 6v6 you can most likely build the bonus hitting a tower and then attack the players so, even if a movement speed bonus is added, it will only be in 5v5 that this skill has limited use. It is a skill perfect for farming and it can be easily abused exactly in the type of gameplay you claim that it is useless. You see, someone who actually plays with a DK can figure such things out. So, I will once again suggest that you should refrain from embarrassing yourself by attacking the actual experience of others, and focus on providing useful feedback, mostly based on your own class and experiences.
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2015
  15. obli7

    obli7 Forum Apprentice

    What? Useless? What are you crazy? I have a mage and the reason I don't do 1-1 and 3-3 is that wars just run with full health gear and wait until the time runs out. As a mage I cannot run fast enough to catch them and cannot regenerate health so I almost always lose. Now they gave them the possibility to add 25 points to health and speed and gave them a skill with INFINITE REGENERATION!!!! They will just constantly regenerate all the time as they get damage from the expired timer and wait for everyone else to die!!!!!!! And you claim to have a good war and you don't want that skill because you cannot use it in 1-1 and 3-3? LOL!!!!!!!!!Suuuuure how would you like a skill that does 1000% damage to other players on sight? Guaranteed winning is not enough for your payer war?

    You obviously know nothing about wars or high lvl PVP and you have an archer. It does not take a genius to see that. You know nothing about how wars play 1-1 and 3-3 matches and you went rampage about someone just hinting that poison damage on basic skill that can just spray you is dangerous. Or you do have a war and you are trying to make the new skill useless when it is RIDICULOUSLY OVERPOWERED for PVP! Add cooldown to it at least for christs sake!!!!!

    I am never going to play 1-1 or 3-3 again if this goes on. In 5-5 you have dwarves getting the flag and winning and 6-6 is hopeless if you are in the blue team. And here you have payers that don't know to play giving feedback about how useless the op skills are! It is stupid!!!
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2015
  16. Red_Jaeger

    Red_Jaeger Junior Expert

    Just fantastic. One guy attacks me because my suggestion to improve a "useless skill" is "unwanted". The guy after him calls the new skill "ridiculously overpowered". And neither has a DK or any experience with and or against that new skill.

    I think that feedback should be limited to those who spent a X number of hours in the test server. A survey email, like those we occasionally receive, would work wonders. A script indicating who spent some hours trying the new patch should not be too hard to devise, I suppose. At the very least, that would filter out those that have no experience at all and just jump to conclusions by what have heard/read here and there, plus motivate those who actually have spent time with the new system and want to provide some useful feedback without having to deal with the ridiculous attacks of every "pro player" in the forum for their opinion.
    bendover likes this.
  17. fab

    fab Advanced

    Your 7k hp vanished in just 3-4 secs ? oh really
    Mage can't even survive 3-4 secs or 3 PS and almost every skill a ranger own got too much power in them.
    Mages hit you 2k fireballs and pryomania is 33%, but rangers hit alot more than that its about 4k per PS and it just simply ridiculous.
    Marking togther with scatter shot becomes 120% and chances of scoring crit is simply as easy as ABC.
    I own a ranger too and i dont see any difficulties landing PS on marking targets ( 30% slower if mark ).
    That is just plain lame if you still continue saying rangers isn't OP, you arent selfish but extremely selfish.
    Rangers have been dominating the arena since mages have been nerf so bad since patch 55.
    There are rangers which got truely insane speeds, speeds so fast you can't dodge them and even small arrow hits you more 1k let alone the big precision shot.
    Whats is more amusing is almost every skill they own got very little cooldown to 0 cooldown and you claim that they are not OP.
    Ya maybe you're right, mages is OP when they kill you
  18. thebearreturns

    thebearreturns Exceptional Talent

    The bloodlust skill is useless for pvp... it is 60 rage needed to use!... how can you get this rage in pvp without dying(cause the rage build nerf)?... and each 10% hp healed need 60 more rage... so i don't think wars have "infinite" regeneration while they have not "infinite" source of rage....
    Shiladitya likes this.
  19. Theranger

    Theranger Someday Author

    While its true that some classes have an advantage in some aspects over the other ( lvl 40 sw pvp fame talent compared to lvl 40 ra pvp fame talent ) it evens out in other aspects ( ranger having better overall balanced stats from gear ) . The new update changes things , and it will take time to get used to a new style of gameplay for all classes, primarily the reason for the effectiveness of the new update. Let's give it a change , people .
    BigPapa likes this.
  20. Shiladitya

    Shiladitya Padavan

    I wont argue with any of your points further since all that you state is that the skill is useless in pvp(all you have stated reflects that and in 6v6 hitting the towers, hitting the players, hitting the towers lol ofcourse you would hit the towers to build your speed bonus when some SW with 1800 damage and 290% crit damage is hitting you from behind, good luck with that) and useful in pve. Second. When I called you "strong DK' and in all my points above, I was using sarcasm which you wouldn't realize because you think too highly of yourself assuming I recognize you as a player who has done highest levels of PVP as a DK. In simple terms I think you are a weak player whatever class you may have. now read all that I have said above and try to understand it. Good Bye.

    As you said it gives regen, but regen is useless in both scenarios for DK's 2h and 1h against high quality opponents after release 155 taking into account that crit rate has been nerfed, 50% block rate introduced for all classes and damage for all classes has been increased including those people who already had high crit rate along with high damage before 155 with low level items and travel speed has been increased which DK's cannot use too much otherwise they would lose out on HP which has already been nerfed, also
    Warriors now have the regen after hp reduces to 33% of health for only 10 seconds, cooldowns will also be introduced, so now you dont have to worry about warriors running about. I will also suggest to remove use of Pots during exhaustion time specially so that the cooldown is not abused by taking pot and again running by DK's with above 7K armour who wont be brought down in 1 minute by exhaustion and if too much damage is dealt they would just use pot to get back the hp then the whole cooldown system would be pointless. The regen from furious battle cry has been taken away too. So that should be making you a little bit happier.But you have to have enough damage to bring down the warrior with the small amount of regen the new skill gives, Otherwise the warrior may kill you :(

    LOL Decide what you want me to be a ranger or a payer warrior who doesnt know how to play XD I dont play the ranger but its a class that I like since many of my friends are rangers and they have always had only one complain that rangers suk so I am glad that rangers wont have chance to complain anymore about skills and talents even if I kill them in PVP ;-)
    Oh and one more thing, if you play the mage then give feedback for some compensation skills to make your own class more useful against warrior regen. Please don't try to bring other classes down. There are many mages who dont need to bring other class down to kill warriors even now before release 155 :)
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2015
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