Prerequisite for higher difficulties

If one is actively participating in the fight, then they are NOT being carried. You better believe I was throwing hits and drinking health pots like a rack of shots when I did my first T6 run but I was there and helping the absolute best I could, as well as handing out rez stones to team mates if needed and throwing guardian/singularity to distract and aid. I am sure others do the best they can to but if someone is seriously trying to participate in the fight, even if it is higher, who makes the rules that they are/aren't allowed to have better equipment? That is how we become better/stronger players.

-MERGED-

It is alright if you are a soloist, which seems to be the case, but don't shame others that run with others, who just happen to be stronger, and run higher levels than you. Again, its another way to be stronger. This game is better played in a group/guild, running alone is fine, but it will definitely take longer to gain any reward.

I'd also like to add that on top of all this, one learns fighting tactics by watching stronger players in their team run, especially on higher levels so call it a learning experience.

 

But those are your opinions

Do you think going from nobody to hero is a short walk?You don't become an hero just by crafting all your legs into uniques, you have to max characters out with glyphs, gems, runes
The path is long,very long

Getting help is just a way to get started, because just leveling to 55 isn't making you ready to solo painful pws

 

You really need to read carefully what i wrote.In my opinion help and carry is not the same word because you usually help when you are way stronger than the one you help and cant be a problem for you but carry means that you are stronger then other player and you do the hard work and spend some resource to do that.That is why i use the word carry. Now the problem is that if you want to play with local group there is the possibility to get players that have no combat value for infernal 2 , you have that combat value but not more than inf 2. The problem is that you will carry players that has no respect and try to the advantage of you instead of farming on lower difficulties and this will suck your resources.
Now this should stop.

I only play with my guild because of that and i know many guilds that try to keep players not play with local groups.
Is not a problem for me so the fact that i wrote in this thread is because i consider that this way is not right and players should work their way to top not taking advantage of other players and all this because BP lock the kick function. This is just not faire.
helping is good because usually you help player when is easy for you or you know him and he deserve your help not some players that try make you carry them and they spend gold on jesters instead of crafting items to become better.

Anyway even if they implement this, friends can help you but you should do something on your own not all with their help, so you will need to learn the game that is all, is that too much to ask ?

Why BP force you to carry a weak players that are in your group,? to help them? nop because when you help them you give them value and they buy less value from BP.
They have removed this kick function because they could not find a better way to handle blood rune mage exploit and pristine core exploit where by the way they did not ban anyone that used that exploits.
Ok i understand that they have did this but they should do something with this nonsense because as i can see local groups are way rare than they use to be and that harm the game.

As about the player selection , this thread is to suggest BP make a selection for you so that you wont waist time, because is you stay half hours to ask players what dmg they have (and they will lie to you) for every map and after that when you come back in town you need to replace the weak player from your group (and if he go fast back in map you cant kick him you need to remake the group) that is not ok , that is not a game that give you pleasure.
Also if you want 4 players feel miserable just for one that is happy because he trick them and he can have a loot with items rank 5 instead 3 than you are a bad person and this should stop.

I think that i make myself understood that is not about help is about players that exploit this lack of kick function and because they cant find abetter way to stop those blood mage exploit then they should make this changes that will make a better game for everyone, newbies will learn to craft and other players will not be forced to carry weak people and to have a ruined run.
Also please think about the black market they grow accounts to sell them using this type of pushing.

Maybe is not the best solution but is not as bad as you think, and again i will say , think about the fact that few years ago we have to spend months to finish amon quests and that is how we grow strong and we lean the game.

There is many players lev 55 that they have no clue about the game, as a guild master i ask them many questions and i teach them what they dont know but this is bad for game, in few weeks they get level 55 and then what? they beg for help because they dont know what to do and they dont ask to teach them they want to carry them. This way to play the game should stop they should understand and they should play this game to get attached to the account not to do lv55 fast and after that if they consider the game is to hard for they they quit.

 

There are at least 2 kinds of groups:
A. Your group members are at about the same level as you.
B. Some or all of your group members are either much stronger or much weaker than you.

I'm not a soloist. About 3/4 of the 2 years I've spent in DSO (call me stupid n00b just because I haven't been around for at least 5 years) I've played in groups. And those were A. type groups. Each and everyone of those group members tried hard, we fought together, bled together and died together. It was a tough journey and each bit of equipment we obtained was damn well deserved.

The (subjective) feeling of injustice when I see these cocky players clad in tiers they can hardly read the roman numbers of and that they obtained in a carry me fashion, hurts the adventurer's soul.
It seems to have been a choice to do it the hard way. But not entirely. In fact it never occurred to me to actually ask for help from the big heroes. We were just friends working on our own in our own ineffective way.
Only a few times we almost accidentally got into op groups. One such moment was when we saw it impossible to kill Balor to finish the main quest line on level 50. Having a group of awesome heroes killing Balor like he was a little kitty cat was amazing, yet not as satisfying.
I stand by my view that A. type group play is the genuine way, similar to writing your school thesis on your own instead of asking for your smarter class mate's 'help', meaning 'do it for me and I'll buy you a beer'.

So for me, something like this would make sense:

But I understand, it's a restriction. Ultimately it's up to the strong players to decide if they carry or help or not.

With all that said,
from your furious reactions I assume my standards of what's respectable are far too demanding for most of you. I shouldn't have posted this. Hence I take the suggestion back. Please do not consider it relevant anymore!

Allow me just to note that if the prereqisite suggestion were to enlarge the gap between the strong and the weak and add up so much more grinding to the game, perhaps try to consider if adding more and more infernal modes ( = more and more tiers -> better and better equipment) doesn't enlarge the gap continuously and add much more grinding to the game than that prerequisite idea would.
With the infernal III being the last and final difficulty, all players would stop there. The weak would eventually catch up with the strong tier-wise. Glyphs, materi frags, crafted legends, gems, and such, those are of course things that the old players will always have more of.

 

This suggestion is a matter of opinion. That's all. I personally wasn't given much choice in the matter as a previous guild I was in, pulled me into PW as soon as I was able to get there, and get me through the maps. They liked doing PW runs, and wanted me there so I went. I would have hung around in desert longer but again, they wanted me in PW. I love PW now, and my current guild/friends run it daily, so I always have an opportunity to run and get good items for crafting and gaining materi, when I am not running solo. Not everyone on the game tries to take advantage of other players. I enjoy my guildmates, and running with them. I fight better now because I run PW, and running higher levels has forced me to 'up' my fighting strategy so I have learned to become better in this way I think.

 

Long time no see, Rhys. Feel free to message me in-game at any point, although I probably won't be doing any of the "carrying" any more.


Akageshi, there is one simple question to ask yourself about the suggestion you made and why the response has mostly been a "no." That question is this: Is this suggestion going to take away or add to the game for most players? The answer is that it will take away the opportunity for fast growth for newer players/secondary characters/returning players in a game that is evolving and adding new content every now and then. It is adding more grind for no good reason. That is why there has been limited support.

I think you should have just said you don't like freeloaders on your first post and maybe you would've gotten a more positive response. But the solution for freeloaders shouldn't be more grind for everyone, it should be options to get rid of freeloaders in the first place.

 

Then if you get trick the fault is yours, they are scumbags, but you got tricked, it's your fault if you were taken advantage of

Yes, there are freeloaders and parasites, that is why i suggest ignoring local chat, until they restore the kick function at least
But that is the reason to stick with guilds and friends, but that known for years, even with kick function you could suffer from freeloaders

Yes, players also lie, but the solution is still here, play with guild and friends, nobody is forcing you to do anything, you are able to make a choice and if you choose to be taken advantage off, it's your fault and nobody is forcing you to be miserable

Yes, that is another trademark of BP, cut the leg to heal a relatively little cut on the leg, they did the same for the log-in bug, it's a BP staple, nothing surprising or new about this

If people don't know how to craft, they can be carried all they want, they won't go very far, all those good characters being sold come from learning crafting, a newbie is not able to build such a character
They must start punishing account selling and trading

Many players are lazy,yes, so they want what they believe is the easy way
But this idea is going to make things worse, they'll hit a wall, without anyway to go forward and without nothing to, those newbies will leave
This will increase grinding in the game which has already enough grinding

 

First to admit that I am not a strong player so not making a knowledgeable comment from first hand experience of carrying someone. So feel free tear my post apart.

​

I find this comment to be a little sad. Not sure Demon was "choosing" to be taken advantage of. How do you make friends in game unless you open yourself up to teaming with people you don't know. Not all are looking to take advantage of stronger players when seeking to join a team. In fact I would hope that majority of people playing are just playing to enjoy themselves without actively seeking to "take advantage" of stronger players. Not all players have a particularly large active guild or friend list. So without a team leader willing to take a chance on allowing you to join their team, solo play it is. For me I would not request to join a team that I consider above my ability but I do enjoy the challenge when the team suggests a harder level.

I do have first hand experience of being carried. I put up entry fee a few times during Dragan and got carried. Was clear from beginning of what my ability was so they knew what they were getting into when they agreed to use my pearl. I now have better gear than before event started and the big thing for me is I can now run PW maps quicker to obtain cores required for crafting. So far only running painful but improving and can see that I could handle a few excru maps. I have a long way to go and lots to learn but I am particularly thankful to the people who helped me (carried me) with Dragan. Without their help I am not sure that I would ever get enough cores.

 

The point in this thread is how to make players grow while they progress and learn the game instead keep try and beg to be carried or scam other people to carry them and all this to make a better game for all players and encourage fair play and balance groups from local chat.
A solutions can be that linear progress until they learn what they need and also that Prerequisite for higher difficulties that can give you nice groups with players that has similar stats.
Players that want to help they can carry them in every difficulties as long as they have that difficulties open is no problem there and is not forbid to help as long as you want and have the power to do that and also they limit those "scumbags" taking advantage form players that can really carry without spending resources.

 

You guys don't really take the payers into consideration do you?
Me and a guild mate went to blood mage on inf2 at that stage, was our first time.
I spend a good 15k ander to attain my items
I spend about $60 a month on this game
Do you really think that someone like me is going to go through all the pre requisites or just pay my way through it?
brings you back to the first question I guess.
Label me a payer or whatever you want but there are people willing to pay to advance.
That is what keeps this game going and has kept it going as long as it has

 

Ok guys, a few posts back I said I submit. Now I can say you have convinced me. The idea to add prerequisites or restrictions on group makeup is in current circumstances more on the wrong side.

I still do not fully agree accessing Infernal difficulties with a character developed to hardly finish a Painful dungeon is ok. But I understand that to truly deal with this, a relatively big set of game changing rules would have to apply, which is now pretty much impossible or at least vastly unacceptable.

Thank you everyone who've participated in the discussion.

 

If you choose to find people in local chat, you know there is a risk of meeting free loaders, it has always been there
If you get taken advantage of, it's your fault, you can successfully ignore local chat and not meeting any freeloaders

if you drive too fast there is a risk into crashing your car
If your car crashes, it's your fault

At least if you consider carrying something bad, but you have everything under your control

The decision to carry is the decision of the leader and of the group, noone forced them to carry you, they decided to carry you
You didn't do anything wrong, they knew the consequences and decided to accept them, they could have made the opposite choice and not carry you

He's hurrdurring about the lack of the ability to kick players in the map, it has nothing to do with the topic in hand

There is nothing wrong with a weak character accessing infernal, he's not exploiting anything, it's the stronger players who are agreeing to take him there, so they should be ready to deal with the consequences,which will never be same, after i call the cyber police

 

I have no problem in helping weaker toons, but for sure i'm not picking them up from local chat. And the ones I help, I only help when they send a pm saying what they want and not when they try to auto invite. And of course, I must be able to solo that pw mode quite easy, otherwise it might prove to be a complete waste of time. For a mage it's quite easy to see who are the liars, because when I solo (with active group on), I see no reason for another mage/ranger/dwarf to pm me "help, i have 25k-30k dmg". That kind of toon either searches for a tank or goes also solo.
Now, as you take aboard 1-2 "noobs", it matters to me if they really try to help. When I see them standing at the entrance, waiting for u to clear the map and then u have to wait for them to pick up the loot, I simply disband the group. When they try, we go to main boss. I usually die here at the beginning; if I get a revive, I kill the boss, if not, simply back to city. If I spend resources, they should also spend resources, no matter how weak they are.
So, I am fine with helping or carrying or whatever.
But, there are valid points in all above opinions, and as some of you are stating, I agree that getting to buy t6 sets while u are equipped with crappy pink/leg items is not the way to go. And I remember a statement from years ago, on my country forum, back when people cried for not dropping predator bow: "it doesn't matter when u get a very good item, if u don't have anything to put on it". Yeah, back then there were only gems, now there are also runes and we have the crafting. And unfortunately, "noobs" think that simply by getting T6 items, they are able to easy farm infernal modes.
There have to be some prerequisite to be able to enter higher modes. And until they are defined and implemented, some steps in the right direction will be (and I love this) to remove costumes in farming areas (1) and add inspect option so that we are able to see the stats of another toon (2).