PVP is going GEARLESS!?@#

The developers' info on PvP in the livestream created a lot of questions and many players reacted by filling the gaps with speculation.
So I would like to stress that while we did hear that 'PvE will be detached from PvP' and particularly 'PvE gear' and 'Character level' we did not explicitly hear that 'PvE effort' , in any form, will be irrelevant to 'PvP prowess' or that gems and runes (present or future) will not work in PvP or that 'PvP is going gearless'.
Also we did not hear that money spent in this game will be worthless in PvP since there might be new PvP content created that people would spent andermant on to have an advantage.
While in the course of many years there have been some improvements towards 'fairplay' in PvP (essence nerfing and removal, pots & buffs removal, PvP brackets according to XP level, elo system) the game's economy model has not changed: players spend money and get gameplay advantages in PvE and PvP in return ; and this does not seem that will stop being so even if the company will try to promote 'fairplay' to some extent due to the future PvP leaderboards.
I think one of the things that mainly bothers them is that they cannot balance the PvP with all this current PvE gear (and wisdom talents) which is very nice for PvE but creates a mess in PvP that they cannot solve ( it is not easy indeed) . So they decided to just stop trying and remove it completely.
The idea that PvPers will not have to farm the maps anymore to get stronger, thus creating two game modes completely isolated from each other in the same game feels unrealistic to me.

 

I strongly disagree simply cause this is never been my personal target in this game. My main target was building a mage able to solo kill inf3 bosses and now that I have it I play much more rarely than before. Clearly, everyone has their own opinions and goals in game.

 

Y , like i posted here :

for me these are the type of players here, and u r obviously in the pve category , something that is not bad for me , everyone play here for their own reasons and i respect that but ppl who dont like or play pvp must respect the ppl who like and play pvp and also we must respect the ppl that gave money and hard effort for this game to rise.

 

BP has to respect them, not me

Joking. I know that's "thanks" to them if I can freeplay.

 

+1 to that.

We all know that most of their decisions are based on making money. Obviously someone at DSO believes that more money can be made with a different type of pvp.

Maybe they switch to a subscription base game.

I have no idea what their thinking is, but I have no doubt that the financial aspect will ultimately make the decision.

This game is getting old and new games pop up daily, so someone at DSO feels like something drastic has to be done to attract new players.

I have no doubt that pvp currently drives the economics in this game. That should be obvious to everyone.

I also have no doubt that pvp drives most players passion. That's been proven by every nerf.

Some of the very people crying the loudest now are the same ones who were constantly demanding the nerfs, which I find completely ironic.

Some players act like DSO is the only thing in their life. They act like if pvp in this game is switched to a moba style, the world somehow stops.

If this change happens, the extra passionate will probably quit the game. Does that mean DSO goes away? Maybe, maybe not. At some point this game will go away regardless of the passionate people.

Let's say that this is the single worst decision ever made by any game, and as a result DSO goes away. Is the gaming industry even going to notice? Will most gamers?

 

What no one is mentioning is the very obvious cheating which we know went on (We'll all agree that it's in the past of course). While some are upset to be losing their hard won runes and gems, I'm pretty sure the glass half full viewpoint is that perhaps those 'easily won' (cheating) runes and gems will also become negated-- not a bad deal in my book.

Recently I'm seeing names I haven't seen in the last six months coming into PVP, and one hit killing me-- despite rather clear indications that the player doesn't really know how to play his or her toon. Maybe they are coming back from a long layoff. And that's totally cool. The other possibility though is that they are quickly made, botted toons, and in that case I greatly look forward to seeing their ill-gained booty suspended while they go pvp.

Either way, at least maybe when I have clovers I'll be more interested in PVP, instead of just completing it while eating dinner, so I can one hand play and get closer to finishing my dailies.

 

You’re missing the point. Such a careless attitude towards the very foundation of this game (which I presume you’ve played for a while) is not helpful. Think about it: the reason DSO still exists is because of hardcore PvPers who actually bother to spend money on the game, there is clearly no motivation to spend money apart from PvP. If I were you, I would be glad someone still financially supports the game, thus allowing everyone (including you) to keep playing it. So you and all your fellow moaners should be thankful that PvP exists as it does currently.

Secondly, if you don’t even care about PvP, that’s good, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you can’t claim to not care about PvP AND be for these changes at the same time. I’m sorry, you just can’t have it both ways.

If you really don’t give a damn about PvP, please don’t post in a thread about “PvP”, it’s just common sense. Let the players who actually care about it post valid points here, not moaning about how nice it is to ruin the game for everyone else.

 

Every time my character has been nerfed it has been because the whining pvp losers have nothing better to do than whine about which class is OP, so until I am not nerfed by pvp, then my opinion will remain the same.

Yes, I've played this game for a handful of years now. It used to be my main game (until Aug 2015) when the whining cry babies got their way and caused the great big nerf.

Now let's pretend for one second that my opinion would change the course of the decision for DSO.

NO NERF EVER.

I cannot make it more plain than that....

DSO is going to do whatever they want. Keep pvp the same, fix it, delete it from the game, I don't care one tiny bit as long as the nerf's stop once and for all.

Personally I think that the easiest solution to the problem would be to ban the cry babies when they whine about who is and who isn't OP, but alas, I don't get to make that decision.

 

Despite the, in your opinion, big "nerfs", PvE is simpler than ever. What's your problem? Every average player of all classes kills Infernal 3 bosses with green or blue essences in a few minutes. So what did the so-called cry babies destroy? Is this making PvE too hard? If you ask me, all classes need a nerf related to PvE because it has become much too easy and groups are actually superfluous.
You can tell a lot, but what is certain is that PvE is no longer a challenge at all and that will not change in the near future, no matter if we get a Moba in PvP or not...

 

I never said pve was too hard. I said "No nerf ever".

Why?

The answer is simple. People spend time and/or money to build their character. That time and/or money should never be taken away, period.

Make the maps tougher, make the bosses tougher, make the quests tougher, make anything tougher, DO NOT take away.

People are whining now because their time and/or money may be lost in pvp. They should be upset.

NO ONE should ever lose what they worked for or paid for. I don't care whether that player does pve or pvp, no one should ever lose what they have, period.

1. If such and such class is OP, then you build that class.

2. If you choose not to build that class, then you figure out and suggest a way for your class to be improved.

What no one should do is whine until someone else loses their time and/or money.

NO nerf ever, can't be more simple than that.

 

First off, making the wisdom not work in PvP was a step in right direction. PvE and PvP can be from now on rebalanced separately, by making changes to wisdom/group or honor tree, respectively.
As a side note, I firmly believe that no nerf that has ever been applied to DK (that's your class, right?) affected PvE to such an extent, that it rendered any of your work useless.
Forcing people to change their gear in r185 affected all the players of all the classes and had nothing to do with PvP.

What if one class is too strong against monsters and others are too weak? Improve the others and buff the mobs? That won't be directly a nerf, you might feel better, but it will be in fact no different than just nerfing one class, and will take a lot more work.
What if one class is too strong in PvP? Buff the others? But, again, that will be an indirect nerf and will only take more work than a direct one!

 

Sorry Java,you choose the wrong class ,DKS are the only ones in this matter.

You cant solo Mortiz accordingly whit a mage, its demand too much resources or time,whit 72k life I can kill him easy on inf1,90k life still no go for inf 2 my best was kiling mortiz inf2 dying one time ,INf3 still no chance at all, and you cant imagine how strong my mage is, 70% my gems are max LV ,70% my runes are max lv, 600kk glyphs , 65 itens crafted 4 yelow ,95% lv6 ,all my ring gems are 30% life one 40%.

And whit next patch you dreams will go to trash until you reach like 70% of the total wisdom.

And Im still bored, BP recicle the things to much.

This types of missions that you need to collect/find 10/100/1000 piece of ****** to complete, are insulting to my brain.

Only Monkeys in the ZOO have fun whit this type of mission ,because they most times got GORGEOUS BANANAS as reward,while our reward playing DSO missions are 99% like nothing.

 

i'm one of the most senior players on Tegan & i just watched the livestream vid about pvp

WOW! ya gotta wonder if BP has instructed the devs to bankrupt the game for some sort of tax loophole they can take advantage of!!! LOL

 

Why buff the existing monsters? If 1 or more classes are weaker (whether pve or pvp) you buff those classes. Nice and easy.

We have inf 1, 2, 3. Sooner or later we'll get 4, 5 and so on.

If the dev's would stop or at least slow down the progress of characters (in pve) then we would not be too strong for the monsters in a short time frame.

[EDIT]

(this next part was originally in reply to a post by another player that got deleted by the mods, I guess for being too mean)

This one is simple also. Every time we've been nerfed, it only lead to more nerfs.

Yes, some of the spoiled children whine too much and have gotten their way, but I am so sick of the nerfs. NO ONE deserves to be nerfed.

Example:

Some of these people here are whining and quoting me like I peed in their cereal because they cannot bother to read everything I wrote and focus only on the fact that I said I don't care about pvp.

They ignore some very obvious facts.

1. I'm not a developer for DSO and this wasn't my idea.
2. I have never once said I liked this idea (to change pvp completely).
3. I have repeatedly said that this "skill" based idea should be in addition to pvp.
4. I have always (100% of the time) been against all nerf's regardless of class and regardless if it is pvp or pve based. (very few can say that).

Yes, the children are only passionate about themselves and that is to be understood. That is what children do.

For years, I have been vocal about bringing up the newer and weaker players so that the gap wouldn't be so wide and the cries for nerf's wouldn't be so constant.

Do the children care? Of course not, because everything has to be about them so they can feel special.

Now watch, sooner or later someone will come in crying that I said pvp didn't matter to me, like it's my goal in life to ruin an already broken system.

The only thing that I do care about in this game is that there are never any more nerf's. Let the players keep what they get and/or buy.

 

Hello heroes, I'll make a brief interjection, please remain on-topic, civil, and above all: constructive, as you could see and hear in the live stream, these are very early ideas, but we do want your feedback about them, so please, stick to the rules, best regards.

 

Come on, don't be naive, if you're being told that a level 3X could be able to match with a level 4X player and still have a "fair fight", does it sound to you that gems, runes, glyphs, etc., will be a factor?

Then that'll be even worse, because the whole "PvP rebalancing" would be a fallacy under that situation, that'd mean that the P2W factor won't be removed, just separated from PvE, so that you can P2P on both aspects of the game.

Bingo!, that's how weak the PvE aspect of the end-game is on DSO, welcome to the club, see why separating both aspects completely is a terrible idea?

Agreed, but there's many other ways to fix a broken PvP system than making this game MOBA-like, we've talked about diminishing curves, setting caps to items, etc, etc., but they're picking the absolute worst base idea.

Now, I presume you are familiar with some online games aside from DSO, since you've said it yourself, so I also presume you're familiar with the concept of balance changes, there's games that get balance changes every two months or so, and all of them are prone to changed mechanics and fine tuning, the problem with DSO's development team, is that the concept of fine-tuning and slight adjustments are alien to them, instead of decreasing/increasing base damage of skills by small % more often, or try and play with the duration of skills, debuffs, etc., in the form of as little as 0.5 seconds, they strip big chunks or give big chunks, that's not our fault, a more stable and durable balance could be achieved with this model, yet they insist on an all or nothing approach.

Also, if you think that all the "nerf requests" come exclusively from PvP, you're misguided, with all due respect, it's a bit naive to think it will stop as long as you see DKs soloing Grimmag in 14 seconds and similarly powerful SWs spending 3x-4x more time, or an undergeared RA surpassing my efficiency and clearing times on regular maps, I've personally advocated for increasing SWs efficiency, not taking away anything from the DK, nor the RA, because if we want a "fair" game for everyone, then my time, which is my most precious resource, is just as worth as anyone's, I don't care if a similarly geared DK kills Grimmag in 3 seconds, as long as all the other 3 classes can do it given that they have similar gear, but not everyone shares our views, correct?, most people will only come and throw bitterness and hope to see everyone being equally miserable instead of aiming for us all to enjoy as equally as possible. You and I know that DSO is more prone to nerf than to buff, scrap and redo instead of fine tunning, so, again, don't even dream that the balance changes (which are always an eventual necessity even in PvE oriented games), and that the possible nerfs will stop if this happens.

 

'Fair fight' is what you imagine that will be. What he said was 'if you are level 37 or 45 there will be no advantage or disadvantage in relation to your base values' and 'that will improve matchmaking'. Can't you think of other differences apart from base values that will apply in PvP like gems, runes, glyphs or whatever they might come up with? Where did you hear that a level 37 will not be able to PvP with more gems than a 45 level as can happen today?
Such things will not be a factor because they will make fights 'fair' (whatever you mean by that) ? Let's wait and see before we make conclusions.
Have in mind that probably the main issue in PvP rebalancing is PvP class rebalancing hence : no wisdom, no PvE gear and make any differences between classes disappear (hence no 1v1 battleground).

Bingo..There has been several PvP rebalancing changes in the past but character progress did not become irrelevant. For example when red essences where nerfed in battlegrounds from +300% to +30% the big spenders switched to buying more gems instead of essences .

 

The vast majority from nerf requests come from pvp and only because someone got butthurt because they lost a match or someone killed them

perhaps the solution is to drive away the whiners

 

Back in the days of 45 there was not so many threads of PvP imbalance as it is now. I think BP is making a huge mistake trying to solve the PvP issue by putting everyone on the same line with the 5vs5 MOBA a like version of PvP. The problem lies deep in the stat and the PVE.
BP says that they wan't to make the PvP more fair, accesable for everyone. That can be also done different way > through the PVE!

Increase drop rate, now only strng grows and weak stays weak. And When I'm talking about increase drop rate I mean those golden lines!
Make crafting easier. You could either pick the enchantments so there would be higher chance and make the cost 10 times more (maybe even more in legend to legend crafting). You could also add a debuff for each PvP mode and/or Class so everyone would feel good about it.

e.g. How are you going to have a tank survive of lot of fire balls and arrows while not coming OP in 1vs1 and 3vs3 same time ?
Debuff for each class in each map. e.g. tank healing higher in 5vs5 than in 1vs1. Damage of 2-h SW lower in 1vs1 than in 5vs5 and so on...

To be honest, I have been here since 5/2011 and I have seen "balance" over the time till today and news about MOBA a like PvP doesn't really get my attention, like so many PVP players here. They stayed here because of the uniqueness of PVP even tho, with it flaws. The PVE side of the game is not enough, it looks like it has been around like 2year maximum and if you are going to isolate the PVE from PVP it's like
dividing the game in 2 games, boring ones

If you are going to change the PVP totally around, what makes your players stay here (and spend money?) because there is another similar type of game, very popular. It's famous of fast match making, nice game play and balance. What are your guns against that ?
Balance ? Nice game play, no bugs? and free cost...? I think we all know the answer. The rest will be history. Thanks !

 

Agreed. I suppose you are talking about a certain “Battle Royale” game which I won’t mention because of the mods. Interesting how I mentioned this very game a few weeks ago in a post about PvP.

Perhaps the devs decided to remove PvE items from PvP because of the influence/popularity of this other game?