Suggestion Q7 set rework

Discussion in 'General Archive' started by ΣMiwel, Jul 28, 2018.

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Do you want the described Q7 set revamp to be implemented?

  1. Yes

    3 vote(s)
    13.0%
  2. No

    20 vote(s)
    87.0%
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  1. sargon234

    sargon234 Forum Demigod

    There are stronger combinations than the old q7+witch seeker+ dragan set, which for example use q4 set or periodic blood loss weapon( blood mage weapon), at least for mage
    It's not op, not for mage at least

    Also, you are implying the game hasn't been uniform before, it was uniform before this time
     
  2. Shiro

    Shiro Padavan

    The one for ranger is laughable
     
  3. callme0216

    callme0216 Advanced

    Its not about you either like the set or not..
    If you dont use it, people will use it agains you.
    Doesent matter how much you hate the set, it better than the otthers..
    And it will be the same if they make a better set.. people will use it cause thats just will be better for them.

    We need new sets which need a certaint amount of char background to use them.

    edit: The fact that IF they will make the Q7 set less competetive as it is now.. People will get soo mad trust me, who crafted certain times into it, and wasted half or more years of crafting work..
    I would leave straight up. Since im playing i didnt got 4x goldline weapon.. only 3.
    Everything else is succeed in my craft but not the weapon..
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2018
    OrochimaruSama likes this.
  4. heror

    heror Forum Baron

    srsly we have at least 4-5 weapon sets and thewy are just useless compared to q7 just look at rangers sets and tell me im wrong. Think about the oposite side you are only looking from 1 side of the things
     
  5. callme0216

    callme0216 Advanced

    Dude rangers still have soo much more variety ,than Dwarfs or DK's.
    How is this was about the topic we talking about?
    We all know other sets less competetive agains Q7, but that doesent mean Q7 should get nerfed..
    We need new sets, others should get buffed.. end of the topic.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2018
  6. Akageshi

    Akageshi Forum Duke

    It's op for RA, at least.

    I'm sorry, maybe it has always been so.
    Does that mean uniformity has always been what the devs wanted and probably even included in the DSO design document? If yes, then I apologize for asking for multiple viable approaches for each class. I seriously doubt this though.


    Fine with me.
     
  7. pickup7

    pickup7 Forum Apprentice

    I don't even know what so say. How can you be so blind and uninformed (<-euphemism) to think that: "Each of these seems like a fair deal to me..."
    Instead of posting this, you could have just said: reeeeeee kill ranger, reeeeeeeeeee, he too stronk, me too weak NERF NERF NERF.
     
    Integrity likes this.
  8. heror

    heror Forum Baron

    I dont know how are they gonna buff the other set without making them more broken than q7 to be competitive with it .For q4 for a mage idk im scared of the devs going on the wrong direction ,.,,,, again,,,,, after the last time
     
    ΣMiwel likes this.
  9. callme0216

    callme0216 Advanced

    They dont have to make it broken..

    They going wrong direction cause they dont play as much as a good player in this game.
    Problem is here that there is a lot of player who dont understand how things will effect other classes with even a little bit of change.
    Not every class is the same thats why Rangers have different buff from Dwarfs or any other classes.
    If dwarfs would have no steam cost ,they would put down 4 turret, 2 tesla..

    People who believes in ballance play rock, papper, scissors.
    This game will never have equal ballance.

    Top of that older sets Q1-Q4 was good back then lvl 50 ,since that they changed nothing.. they are just old.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2018
  10. Hetsunien

    Hetsunien Padavan

    If you let me give my honest opinion in this case, the problem with Q7 set (for Rangers, at least, I'm speaking for my class) is not the set itself, it is the combination for increased damage plus explosive arrow's spam. You can spam a lot of boosted EA and you have the opportunity to spam net everytime the 5 points talent triggers. Everyone is conscious EA is the most powerfull ability in the game; not only for the plain/marked damage it can cause, but the fact it can break armor/resistances at the same time.

    I'm very clear that this mechanic was implemented for faster farming, and here's my point: this set is only good for that, but that adjective doesn't make justice to Q7, it's better to say IT IS the best by far in that subject. Of course people want to farm faster, they want to get to gold on every posible dungeon for LeaderBoards, and that's ok. What is wrong is the behavior of all other players in PVE/PVP aspects. Let me explain it with an example:

    My character is a Ranger based on Q4/Lehaine sets qith low concentration costs set up, in the way I can fire 3 explosive arrows and 1 Scatter Shot with 150 concentration points. Yesterday one Spellweaver of my group wrote a funny thing: "OMG a Ranger that doesn't farm with that crazy arrow thingy". Then a DK wrote in the moment we were killing the boss: "You suck, Q7 Rangers are better". The fact is I can shoot 6 explosive arrows using adrenaline and the rest of the time I used Deadly Blow, I didn't die and caused a decent damage compared to other member's group (two DK, one SW, one SM). Everyone using blue ess and the boss followed me whenever DKs weren't attracting him, so I guess I made more damage than the others. I know a Ranger with Q7 is way more efficient than my actual build, and I'm glad when I'm grouping with them and they kill the boss in no time, that's true.

    What I'm triyng to say is people want to farm faster with no effort (one thing I, personally, don't share). Nowadays every Ranger with no Q7 is missjudged by other players and this thought simply I cannot tolerate. But hey, surprise! This always has happened in the history of this game with other sets: Witch Hunter/Dark Set over others like Essences, Sargon... So this always will happen. The thing is despite I don't like Q7, I recognize it is the best at farming and boss killing, nothing more, because in PVP it sucks so hard that Rangers with this set are the easiest characters to kill.

    So as a conclusion, is Herald's Set too OP? For farming yes, is too OP and should be tweaked a little, but not the Set. I suggest another modification: increase the time damage boost is active from 2 to 3 seconds...

    Set Bonus:
    (2): + 55 Damage (level dependent)
    (2): + 10,00% Fire resistance
    (2): + 10,00% Andermagic resistance
    (2): When you hit an enemy with Net for the next 3 seconds you receive + 150% increased damage and Explosive Arrow has no concentration costs.

    ...and rework the Net ability as:

    Stuns trapped enemies for 4.0 (PVP: 2.0) seconds.
    Net cool-down: 15s.

    Talent 1: no change.
    Talent 2: no change.
    Talent 3: Stun last 25% longer (PVE: 5s, PVP: 2.5s).

    What do you think? The set wil be OP as always, but less spammy. Giving the oportunity to use during the net's 12 seconds cool-down another skills. Because, you know, Ranger has more than Net + Explosive Arrow in their repertoire. In PVP Rangers still have to be the finest with aiming the Net if they want the buff and enemies will have 12 seconds guaranteed to counter-attack and do their magic before another Net attempt.
     
    Akageshi and ΣMiwel like this.
  11. OrochimaruSama

    OrochimaruSama Forum Apprentice

    I believe then that what you lack then is creativity or laziness to think. For example I am a mechanic and for each set I can think of at least 1 or 2 improvements that would make any set more viable, a few small examples:
    Blood Rune: was strong due to attack speed soon puts in the description of the weapon that the red tower now receives attack speed multipliers losing x% on the damage of this tower ( to not be op)
    q4: it is a set based on critical damage and has the objective to deal area damage, therefore it would be enough to leave both towers giving same overlapping damage (as before but only when using the set) and to have a buff of the type : Critical explosions with the explosive bomb (area skill) double or increase (50-75%, should be calculated better) Critical damage up to a maximum of 10x for 3 seconds, for example.
    Well, I thought for 5 minutes and there are possible suggestions for other sets. Contrary to what you say . Just think a little
     
  12. Slabutul9

    Slabutul9 Someday Author

    There bonusses are competly ridiculous! Did you even thought about the balance between all the chars if they do this? will be completly broken. Also did you thought how this will affect your farming...?
     
  13. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Count Count

    Now that's an idea to fix the ranger set. If this was to be implemented, however... Dwarf and knight sets would also have to be changed (and ranger q4 set would have to be improved, but that's a different topic).
    While for knight making the Ground Breaker cooldown longer could do the trick, for dwarf the problem is deeper... Turrets can be kept buffed eternally by using the Close to Turret wisdom skill, even without the q8 set. And with q8 set, it is completly not a problem.
     
  14. Arr

    Arr Forum Expert

    you cant choose anything if there is only one option

    since the creation of the herald set, practically the whole game has been adjusted to it and thats a great fail.. and although the solution could be somewhat simple i dont know if one day it will be done.. anyway nothing bad would happen because bosses and mobs should also be nerfed so if you now kill a boss in 1 minute, you will kill it in 1 minute after the nerf (nothing would change for herald set users).. the difference is that anyone using any other end game weapon/set will be able to kill that boss in (more or less) 1 minute too..
     
  15. Shiro

    Shiro Padavan

    Ehem :rolleyes:

    Btw, I remain of same idea, the change to Q7 (rangers) wrote on first post seems to weak compared to the others, also the removed cooldown on metheor is in contrast with gnob weapon for SWs wich reduces metheor cooldown by 25% everytime you hit with fireball. Not that they cannot coexist, but I'm a bit scheptical on making two things for same purpose.

    With this:
    you mean the 150% dmg thing after net/gb/metheor/c-14 will still trigger, right?
     
  16. MademoiselleCaramel

    MademoiselleCaramel Junior Expert


    I do not care about class balance, neither I have ever mind other classes's business (how their set work, how they play, what skills they use, etc). I just do not like when other classes talk about my class like they know everything. Did you play ranger throught all these years, did you survive all the changes and nerfs, and everything? I have never come on forum (neither I ever will) to write and cry how there is imbalance, cuz dk can kill me with one jump, or why mages can spam with their icy skills. I just tell to myself "damn, this hero is strong, wp".

    For example, I always find it unfair how dwarf's jump is like double jump, and they are the only ones who can do that. Do I come here to cry on forum, and ask for everyone to have that, or even worse, to devs nerf jump in dwarf class??? No, I say "girl, if you want double jump, then play as a dwarf." But I choose ranger, with all his flaws and perks. THAT IS TRUE BALANCE, WHITE AND BLACK IN ONE, GOOD AND BAD. Balance is not equality like all you people want to put it. (at least that is how I see balance.)

    End of story.
    Please, stop replying to my posts. I said everything I want to say. I do not have time to talk to infinity about same stuff.

    My advice is to stop minding other classes business. Just play your hero and do your best. Or help some new players. This game might die cuz there is so much hate between classes. The grass will always be greener at other side.

    You might start to thank rangers, cuz with our help, we all play faster, and kill bosses faster.

    P.S. I will point out what Orochimaru wrote: "I will vote 'no', since fortunately my parents taught me not to be selfish and I particularly do not like to play alone." Think about this.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2018
  17. heror

    heror Forum Baron

    Now thats some next level of hipocrisity. Sorry but ranger are not so complex as you think in fact all of them are not. Sorry but your fellow rangers just said that q7 is the strongest set and the rangers are ballanced around it now ill say END OF STORY


    Might aswell thank the devs for the flawless meta where the classes are unbalanced right ? If you werent selfish you werent going to refuse speaking about balancing sorry but what you have my friend is the exact oposite of what you think[/QUOTE]


    " Balance is not equality like all you people want to put it. (at least that is how I see balance.)"

    I really want to see an insane buffs to all three classes except for ranger and ill see how you cream nerf this nerf that i know you will. Beecause you will feel underpowered. Just like you said tommorow you are on top the other day at the bottom but when you hit rock bottom you want somekind of farness. Its been way too long since the rangers felt useless, keep runing with your thinking and you might find yourself back at lv 50 era and believe me this is still painfull in my memory
     
    ΣMiwel likes this.
  18. Akageshi

    Akageshi Forum Duke

    This discussion is not about killing the q7 set. Perhaps the original post seems so, but we have moved to different suggestions too.

    At least RA's Q7 is too strong. Does it cost a million materi? Is Herald x times harder to kill than Grimmag, Bearach or other pw bosses? No? Well, how is the Q7 advantage earned then? This is a game and unlike Trakilaki I'm certain games are supposed to be fair. They have rules and rules apply for a reason.

    Fellow rangers may want to realize they have all jumped on a bandwagon and if their choice was stupendously op from the beginning, they shouldn't be surprised that one day the whole business may get fixed. Ofc provided that the devs are not high 24/7.

    Maybe leave the Net cooldown as it is and add a set bonus cooldown instead, similar to Khalys set (and many others) that can be triggered once in x seconds. That way a Q7 ranger can still stun and burn enemies often, but demolish them with EAs less frequently. Simply put, you can't have the set buff (no concentration and increased dmg) every time you cast Net.

    If the set cooldown is quite long, like 30 seconds, as a compensation, the set buff could last longer... Think of the buff as some sort of overdrive. Once in a while you just drop a freaking nuke.
    Ooor make the set buff trigger randomly.

    Edit:
    Btw. I think RA's Q4 set is still pretty cool mainly against clusters of monsters. In PvP it's pretty sweet to torture opponents with scatter shot and scare them with bees... But its performance against single targets (=bosses) is poor :/
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2018
  19. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Count Count

    Not as strong as Q7 though. A rain of EAs sweeps the whole horde in 2 seconds.
    Made my day :D
    Well, I think that if it was to be made that way, it should be 60 seconds for all classes with the same duration (eg. 9 seconds)... It could be balanced this way (hadn't thought about it), but then mage's set would have to get a special power during the buff, too... Idk, maybe +50% destruction speed and -50% destruction cooldown... or something like this (then the infinite fireballs could - and would have to - be removed).
     
  20. Shiro

    Shiro Padavan

    Like said somewhere in this forum, when I first started playing dso it was like during sargon with the coffee beans map that was Wild Forest, so not last week.
    I've seen nerfs and all, like Killing Blow recovering 20% concentration etc., but never dreamed of complaining because game was fun.
    Now that game isn't fun, at least let the fairness be.

    But anyway, you say you never, and never will, complain about imbalance wich is your way of doing, you can't force others to do as well.
    Also, at least for what concernes myself, you can't say the same about me since I was only pointing out you've been kind of hypocrit saying who opened the thread is selfish, while your point is gold, materi and hours of farm you spent, masking it behind the "respect for rangers community work"
     
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